: Did you know that Cadillac is actively considering a sub ATS sedan?



Lord Cadillac
10-10-12, 12:47 PM
Now you do... :p

hueterm
10-10-12, 01:20 PM
Meh....

thebigjimsho
10-10-12, 02:10 PM
Mike is also a spam bot...

hueterm
10-10-12, 02:43 PM
No, it's just all the interest I have in something so small and un-Cadillac.

77CDV
10-10-12, 08:07 PM
Good luck to them.

ben.gators
10-10-12, 08:21 PM
No, I didn't know that. Also I don't care, I don't like, and I don't buy a sub ATS sedan, period!

cadillac kevin
10-10-12, 08:25 PM
Will it be called the cmr-n and be based off the cavalier...err...cruze?

oldcaddybuyer
10-10-12, 08:29 PM
1984?

MrHolland
10-10-12, 08:57 PM
IMHO, Cadillac making a small car will cheapen their name/branding, as if the haven't already. Just my opinion though.

orconn
10-10-12, 09:27 PM
a wee bitty Cadillac .... so cute!

CadillacLuke24
10-11-12, 01:14 AM
Darn it they better have learned from times past.

talismandave
10-11-12, 03:20 AM
Will it be called the cmr-n and be based off the cavalier...err...cruze?

Best post of the whole month!:lol:

Jesda
10-11-12, 08:15 AM
Next week:

Cadillac is releasing a sub-Yaris hatchback to build volume.

Johnxlrv
10-11-12, 08:25 AM
Doesn't Cadillac already have a pile of cra* in their backyard?...Why add to it?


IMO, this is one of the best troll topics out there...

talismandave
10-11-12, 12:26 PM
Next week:

Cadillac is releasing a sub-Yaris hatchback to build volume.

What next electric Cadibikes!

Lord Cadillac
10-11-12, 01:02 PM
Cadillac is trying to line up with Mercedes, BMW and Audi. This is the reason for a full-lineup of offerings.

cadillac kevin
10-11-12, 02:33 PM
What next electric Cadibikes!

If it was in the vain of the dodge tomahawk, I'd want one.

CadillacLuke24
10-11-12, 04:26 PM
Cadillac is trying to line up with Mercedes, BMW and Audi. This is the reason for a full-lineup of offerings.

A noble goal, but they have to remember that in this game QUALITY, not QUANTITIY, wins.

Lord Cadillac
10-11-12, 05:50 PM
A noble goal, but they have to remember that in this game QUALITY, not QUANTITIY, wins.

Well if they can afford a high quantity of high quality products, they'll stay in business for a long time...

Jesda
10-11-12, 05:51 PM
Cadillac is trying to line up with Mercedes, BMW and Audi. This is the reason for a full-lineup of offerings.

Meanwhile, MB, BMW, and Audi are matching their lineups with Toyota.

http://benzinsider.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/634895_1136344_4992_3328_08c176_0070005.jpg

Cadillac is chasing unfocused brands that seek to be everything to everyone.

orconn
10-11-12, 05:57 PM
There you go ..... can Cadillac taxis in Chicago and Shanghai be far off?!

RippyPartsDept
10-11-12, 06:12 PM
isn't the ELR a sub-ATS?

Aron9000
10-12-12, 03:40 AM
Cadillac is trying to line up with Mercedes, BMW and Audi. This is the reason for a full-lineup of offerings.

Small luxury cars ONLY sell in Europe. Stuff like the Audi A3 hatch and BMW 1 series sells in pretty small volumes in the US, enough to where it wouldn't be worth their time IMO. Mercedes doesn't think its worth their time to try and sell the A and B class cars here.

As for them trying to gain a foothold in Europe, well I think Cadillac is wasting their time there as well. Europe's economy is in the toilet, and IMO will be for the next 7-15 years since we have four countries that I personally believe WILL default on some of their debts. The standard of living in western Europe is going down, not up IMO. Plus the high cost of petrol and exhorbanant taxes on car owners will make owning a car more and more of a stretch for the middle class in Europe. I'm talking about people selling their existing cars and not having a car, much less buying new cars. I see Europe as a dead market, a place where you will lose $$$$.


Now the Chinese auto market is completely alien to me. If they think a compact Cadillac will sell there, more power to them. That is where the $$$$ is to be made in the next 20 years, that market is growing by leaps and bounds.

hueterm
10-12-12, 12:09 PM
If they can sell them, fine. As long as they make money and lower their CAF(U)E average -- both of which can be channeled into a V8 I care about...

gary88
10-12-12, 01:09 PM
Europeans have been dealing with high taxes on cars and $7-$9 gas for years and have already adjusted for the most part. Hence why small displacement diesels are so incredibly popular there. Plus they have actual viable public transportation as an alternative to driving, not to mention the huge popularity of bicycles and motor scooters in a lot of cities.

However I believe it won't be long before small cars with smaller more efficient engines become popular here as well.

CadillacLuke24
10-12-12, 03:26 PM
Europeans have been dealing with high taxes on cars and $7-$9 gas for years and have already adjusted for the most part. Hence why small displacement diesels are so incredibly popular there. Plus they have actual viable public transportation as an alternative to driving, not to mention the huge popularity of bicycles and motor scooters in a lot of cities.

However I believe it won't be long before small cars with smaller more efficient engines become popular here as well.

As long as you have places like the Midwest, Wyoming, Texas, and the like, it will be a very long time. Yes, there's a Smart car here, a Fiat 500, not to mention other laughably small cars. But in my neck of the woods, we have a lot of room, so we're used to big cars. And we LOVE them.

If gas prices get high enough in a quick enough time frame, sure. Otherwise, I doubt it.

MrHolland
10-12-12, 03:39 PM
Said to my giant gas guzzling Cadillacs --"If loving you is wrong,,,,I don't wanna be right "

CadillacLuke24
10-12-12, 04:13 PM
I second that :D

EChas3
10-13-12, 08:38 PM
Most of the US is simply unsuited to the mass-transit solutions that do work well in Europe. Population density and the high cost of real estate in Japan can support high-speed rail. Solutions must be cost effective not driven by ideology. Let the people choose.

orconn
10-13-12, 09:19 PM
Actually, Los Angeles had a very successful urban rail transportation system prior to the 1950's.t was economically feasible even considering the relatively low population densities spread out over Southern California. I as a youngster in the late 1940's and early 1950's used to ride the "Red Cars" from Pasadena to downtown Los Angeles. It took less time than driving a car between the two places. The same light rail system served the far flung communities that made up "Greater Los Angeles" from the early twentieth century until supplanted by the freeway system for which SoCal is now so rightly infamous.

During the later part of the 1950's I also lived in a very large, spread out city, Sao Paulo, Brazil, which also was very well served by a light rail transportation system that cover the city's very far flung suburbs. As I was , and my cohorts, were in our early teen years and not yet able to drive a car, legally, we made extensive use of the great system of "Bondis" that made it possible for us to visit friends and explore the huge city of Sao Paulo. At times I went back and forth to school on a private school bus, but when I wanted to stay late or visit with a friend who lived near the center of the city I had a great and efficient public rail transportation system to get me back out to where my family lived.

Americans love to make excuses for why "mass transit" will not work for them, but the truth is they are too brain washed about the convenience of driving their own vehicles to be able to conceive of a clean, well run municipal transit system.

Of course for public transportation to be both workable and enjoyable it would require an complete overhaul of the manners and concern for others to what we usually experience in the self centered, and careless behavior that we witness on our roads every today. For this to happen will require private, individual car transportation to become even more expensive and onerous that it is today. It will be awhile, but coming in our future will be a time when personal automobiles will be for recreation not for transportation!

talismandave
10-14-12, 02:31 AM
Actually, Los Angeles had a very successful urban rail transportation system prior to the 1950's.

...you mean until Firestone and GM set up a corporation to buy them and dismantle them?

thebigjimsho
10-14-12, 03:03 AM
Mass transit in Boston would be more viable if it wasn't such a pain in the ass...

EChas3
10-14-12, 07:50 PM
I'm all for safe, convenient mass transit that can thrive without massive tax subsidies. It's surprisingly rare.

orconn
10-14-12, 09:17 PM
^^^ Do you honestly believe that our current system of "personal" transportation involving individuals driving their privately owned vehicles over publicly financed and subsidized road systems is free of massive "tax" subsidies? Neither the gas taxes and the vehicle licensing fees come close to covering the cost of our present transportation system (which by the way is apparently falling apart due inadequate funding of maintenance and repair).

But you are quite correct mass transit systems (whether our current iindividual car centered system or a rail or bus mass transit system) free of public subsidy are extremely rare!

talismandave
10-15-12, 12:57 AM
If you want to talk subsidized mass transit you can't forget air travel. If it weren't for government in supporting air travel, building and improving airports, etc. tickets would be twice the cost they are today and perhaps the train system that the fed has all but abandoned wouldn't be going broke.
They just chose to subsidize an inefficient method of mass transit in terms of cost per passenger mile.

Aron9000
10-15-12, 03:17 AM
If you want to talk subsidized mass transit you can't forget air travel. If it weren't for government in supporting air travel, building and improving airports, etc. tickets would be twice the cost they are today and perhaps the train system that the fed has all but abandoned wouldn't be going broke.
They just chose to subsidize an inefficient method of mass transit in terms of cost per passenger mile.

With the speed of air travel over rails, I would say the higher cost per passenger mile is well worth the price. Takes 5 hours to fly from NY to LA, would take you a week on a train. That being said, I think its stupid how many commuter planes we have that fly from places like Newark to Hartford, places that are less than 100 miles apart where there are already good rail systems in place.

talismandave
10-15-12, 03:30 AM
Sure the cost is good with the government paying a large share of it. If the ticket price reflected the actual cost of doing business (Like any other private business.) half the people who are flying now might decide to use ground mass transit instead. It isn't a matter of air or train, it is a matter of government subsidizing private businesses. I'm not saying fund rail over air, I'm saying don't put tax dollars into private businesses.

If I want to open a business they aren't going to come build me a new building to do it in. Why do it for the airlines, or the trains, or anyone else?

Aron9000
10-15-12, 03:36 AM
If you want to talk subsidized mass transit you can't forget air travel. If it weren't for government in supporting air travel, building and improving airports, etc. tickets would be twice the cost they are today and perhaps the train system that the fed has all but abandoned wouldn't be going broke.
They just chose to subsidize an inefficient method of mass transit in terms of cost per passenger mile.

With the speed of air travel over rails, I would say the higher cost per passenger mile is well worth the price. Takes 5 hours to fly from NY to LA, would take you a week on a train. That being said, I think its stupid how many commuter planes we have that fly from places like Newark to Hartford, places that are less than 100 miles apart where there are already good rail systems in place.

talismandave
10-15-12, 03:40 AM
Was that a double post, or are you trying to shout me down?:lol:

brandondeleo
10-15-12, 05:04 AM
The shortest distance I've ever flown was from Yakima to Seattle. It was like a 20 minute flight. :lol:

97EldETC
10-15-12, 01:36 PM
For some reason my first comment never had shown up. Anyways, what is a sub-ATS sedan?

RippyPartsDept
10-15-12, 11:25 PM
Sub-ATS = smaller than an ATS.