: Modified fix to the current wheel click fix from GM



flatrockguy
10-03-12, 01:29 PM
Just an FYI.... GM has modified the current fix (new wheel nuts) to increase the torque spec to 190nm from 150nm. Sure seems like they have no idea how to fix the problem. Thought I would just let everyone know...

#PIC5136L: Clicking Noise From Front Wheels - (Oct 2, 2012)
Subject:
Clicking Noise From Front Wheels

Models: 2009 - 2013 Cadillac CTS-V Models
Built Prior to VIN Breakpoint D0106083

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This PI was superseded to update recommended field. Please discard PIC5136K.
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The following diagnosis might be helpful if the vehicle exhibits the symptom(s) described in this PI.

Condition/Concern


A customer may comment on a clicking noise emanating from the front wheels. This condition is noticed at low speed (walking speed) during full wheel lock turns on dry clean pavement (Full lock parking lot maneuver). The clicking noise is generally noted as approximately 1 to 4 "clicks" per wheel revolution.
The CTS-V has lightweight high performance front rotors with an aluminum center. The clicking sound is caused by interaction between the wheel mounting face and wheel mounting surface on the brake rotor caused by the aluminum-to-aluminum interface.

Recommendation/Instructions


Note: Do NOT replace the front wheel or brake rotor for the clicking condition. The new brake rotors that were previously advised to be installed for this condition should no longer be installed. The recommended procedure is to now clean all wheels and rotor top hats as well as replace all wheel nuts as described below.
Procedure:
1. Remove front wheels
2. Clean wheels as follows:
- a) Use a clean cloth dampened with GM Brake Parts Cleaner (P/N 19287400 or equivalent).
- b) Wipe the mounting surface of the wheel to remove any residual grey or black material that has accumulated on the wheel mounting surface. Be careful not to use the Brake Cleaner on the painted or clear coated surfaces of the wheel. It is also helpful to use a Scotch-Brite Cleaning Pad to aid in cleaning.
Note: Be sure NOT to use the scotch pads (Roloc disc) on the aluminum material. All cleaning MUST be done by hand. Do NOT use ANY air or power tools!
3. Clean the rotor top hat as follows:
- a) Use clean cloth dampened with GM Brake Parts Cleaner (P/N 19287400 or equivalent).
- b) Clean the wheel mounting surface of the rotor (rotor top hat) to remove any residual grey or black material that has accumulated on the rotor. During the cleaning process be sure to clean the rotor near the wheel pilot at the center of the rotor. It is also helpful to use a Scotch-Brite Cleaning Pad to aid in cleaning.
Note: Be sure to NOT use scotch pads (Roloc discs) on the aluminum material. All cleaning MUST be done by hand, do NOT use ANY air or power tools!
Note: Be sure to thoroughly dry the wheel and rotor prior to installation on vehicle.
4. Reinstall wheels using replacement wheel nuts with P/N 9598179 (quantity 20 required for all 4 wheels) (these can be identified with a blue color on the inboard conical portion of the nut (see pic) and torque them to 190 Nm.




Note: If a car had the 2-piece rotors installed (P/N 20795300 & 20795302) prior to the release of these "blue cone" wheel nuts and has a repeat wheel click concern, perform this cleaning procedure, replace the wheel nuts with the new blue cone nuts, and torque to 190 Nm.

Note: If the vehicle owner has installed a locking lug nut kit, a "blue cone" replacement locking kit (P/N 19259109) must be installed in place of owner’s added kit.

Warranty Information


For vehicles repaired under warranty use:

Labor Operation
Description
Labor Time

H9752
Clean Mating Surface Of Wheel and Rotor to Correct Noise Concern (both sides)
0.6 hr
Please follow this diagnostic or repair process thoroughly and complete each step. If the condition exhibited is resolved without completing every step, the remaining steps do not need to be performed.

1997BlackETC
10-03-12, 01:35 PM
Omg, sounds like the next thing that's gonna happen is the wheel studs are gonna start snapping. That's pretty darn tight.

M5eater
10-03-12, 01:53 PM
190nm is 140ft/lb

That's the orginal specification torque.

1997BlackETC
10-03-12, 02:09 PM
lol, I'm sleeping, I was thinking 190 ft/lb, now that would be tight. Thanks for the correction.

mrk4543
10-03-12, 02:29 PM
The bulletin shown here says to replace all lugnuts....front and rear...whereas prior bulletin specified only the fronts. Wonder what next week's bulletin will show! Kinda makes you wonder who comes up with these fixes.

theamcguy
10-03-12, 03:31 PM
Sounds like they are not getting the 100% fix for the issue so they upped the torque. I also think they are replacing the rear nuts so the appearance is the same front to rear as the new nuts protrude a bit more than the old ones. I still think a thin plastic gasket like the plastic they make gallon milk cartons from will work. Make template the same diameter as the rotor hat then punch out the lugs, install and enjoy quiet.

M5eater
10-03-12, 03:38 PM
Sounds like they are not getting the 100% fix for the issue so they upped the torque. I also think they are replacing the rear nuts so the appearance is the same front to rear as the new nuts protrude a bit more than the old ones. I still think a thin plastic gasket like the plastic they make gallon milk cartons from will work. Make template the same diameter as the rotor hat then punch out the lugs, install and enjoy quiet.

The outter face of the nuts are the same. It's the surface area to the wheel that's different.

They're replacing all of them because apparently the cone shape of the OE nuts was not making full contact against the Rims and they were rattling around on the nuts. The rears wouldn't make noise because they're not turning on their axies, but the defect is still there.

theamcguy
10-03-12, 09:45 PM
The outter face of the nuts are the same. It's the surface area to the wheel that's different.

They're replacing all of them because apparently the cone shape of the OE nuts was not making full contact against the Rims and they were rattling around on the nuts. The rears wouldn't make noise because they're not turning on their axies, but the defect is still there.

That makes sense, thank you for the explanation.

hulksdaddy
10-03-12, 11:39 PM
So, what happens when the cleaned, new rotors with new torqued blue nuts start clicking? Call in an exorcist?

khoeysr
10-04-12, 09:05 AM
Hold on to your nuts.

mrk4543
10-04-12, 09:09 AM
If you keep them tight, you only need one hand!:D

smackdownCTSV
10-04-12, 09:17 AM
So, what happens when the cleaned, new rotors with new torqued blue nuts start clicking? Call in an exorcist?

Call in the engineers to release a statement about how it's "normal" and not causing any damage.

Trapspeed
10-04-12, 09:16 PM
Call in the engineers to release a statement about how it's "normal" and not causing any damage.

See isolator memo, change date and subject, print, sign, and send to the masses. I'm sure it's one click away from the printer now.

baabootoo
10-04-12, 10:42 PM
Did anyone post a picture of these yet?

flatrockguy
10-05-12, 10:01 AM
Here it is.98307

MaximumPwr
10-05-12, 11:11 AM
I ordered and replace the front nuts with the new blue nuts myself. Clicking stopped entirely. I didn't even clean the rim or rotor(I'm lazy). The new nuts look very similar to the OEM's, but I think the cones are more shallow. They do stick out just a bit more from the rim and don't match the rears in that regard. After I read the new TSB that says to replace both front and rears I ordered 20 more to replace the rears thinking it was just for matching visual appearance. But now I'm thinking the new blue nuts might actually hold the wheel on better from an engineering standpoint because of the more shallow cone enabling the nut to get a tighter hold/grip on the lug. Just my 2 cents.

JFJr
10-05-12, 09:40 PM
Blue nuts are to be avoided; they might be terminal.

Jud

hulksdaddy
10-05-12, 10:05 PM
Blue nuts are to be avoided; they might be terminal.

Jud

As some have stated, a little lube and some torque usually fixes the problem. ;)

RGaret
10-06-12, 09:39 PM
Call in the engineers to release a statement about how it's "normal" and not causing any damage.

My wheels click and I don't really think it's a big deal. Especially since it doesn't appear to be a safety issue.

smackdownCTSV
10-06-12, 09:41 PM
My wheels click and I don't really think it's a big deal. Especially since it doesn't appear to be a safety issue.

And it's attitudes like that and people like you which makes GM and dealers not care.

tedcmiller
10-06-12, 11:24 PM
I just bought a 2013 CTS-V Coupe for my wife. The front wheel hats are different from the ones on my 2009 CTS-V sedan. They are held in place with a series of small nuts (maybe around a dozen) where the original hats used to be and they are black. These special hats are used on the front wheels only. Does this have anything to do with the clicking - I don't know. My 2009 CTS-V started clicking about 3000 mi. After the rear swing arm nuts were replaced per the recall that was issued for my car, the clicking stopped and I have not heard it again.

My question is have the special hats been in use before 2013 or are they new to the 2013 model?

hulksdaddy
10-06-12, 11:27 PM
Pics?

xlr_x
10-07-12, 03:23 AM
I just bought a 2013 CTS-V Coupe for my wife. The front wheel hats are different from the ones on my 2009 CTS-V sedan. They are held in place with a series of small nuts (maybe around a dozen) where the original hats used to be and they are black. These special hats are used on the front wheels only. Does this have anything to do with the clicking - I don't know. My 2009 CTS-V started clicking about 3000 mi. After the rear swing arm nuts were replaced per the recall that was issued for my car, the clicking stopped and I have not heard it again.

My question is have the special hats been in use before 2013 or are they new to the 2013 model?

you have the 2-peice rotors

Trapspeed
10-07-12, 07:44 AM
Those rotors on my '09 have stopped my clinking...for now. It's been 2K miles.

Gary Veeeee
10-07-12, 08:19 AM
Had mine done two weeks ago clicking went away started noticing day before slight click again not too worried about it. New Problem found out yesterday. Haven't posted in a while been working on extending my garage space for Vivian V. Wife has been driving car. Came home two days ago said she was hearing funny noises. She always hears funny noises every car we own even the Harley. Short shot pipes barely baffled can't even hear yourself think sometimes she's hearing noises whatever. Unfortunately, took the car out yesterday for a quick run back out of driveway took off no wheelspin or anything hit second- loud bang and Jolt from rear end. Something is going on. Read through here that some of the vehicles on the 12s came through with low fluid? I know it's the rear end happens on every shift now. Well, have to bring in also my first problem I ever had is coming back again ,to both headlights are fogging .It doesn't even have to rain and they start Fogging in damp
humid conditions. I noticed this car in the front end when driving a good amount time does get very warm. I don't much care about wheel clicking that's the least of my worries. I think The problem is only on polished rims factory, I would guess they will come out with a shim or gasket to put on as a couple of posts suggested.

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BTW, That's an extreme amount of torque to update on those studs 155 to 190 that's just getting another quick fix by for the customer. They better be careful here it's getting close to many of people going back 3 to 4 times if I go back for my wheels it will be four since I purchased in August.

RGaret
10-07-12, 08:55 AM
And it's attitudes like that and people like you which makes GM and dealers not care.

I think that GM should figure this out. However, been three years and still they have no ideas. Why is this problem only affecting the CTS-V? No other GM products are having this problem? However, until they do come up with a proper solution, I don't want to waste my time beta testing their interim solutions. I know many people have complained about this and I knew about this problem before buying my car. As long as it doesn't affect my safety, I personally will live with it. My BMW had a fuel pump issue that would cause the vehicle to shut down in traffic. Some people had them replaced 4 times. That was a serious safety issue.

tedcmiller
10-07-12, 02:37 PM
I have had four CTS-Vs (the most recent - a 2013 which I have not had long enough for the clicking to develop) and only the 2009 developed the clicking. That clicking has gone away (as explained in my post #21). As pointed out in numerous posts, the problem is not a safety issue. As RGaret pointed out, GM has had years to solve this problem and so far has not.


I have an upcoming post regarding garage door openers. But I will save that until I have completed all test to my satisfaction.

M5eater
10-07-12, 02:42 PM
Are ZL1's having this problem?

They use the same rim( being forged that is) and 2 piece rotor afaik.