: Legit Catch Can Questions



condork464
09-28-12, 09:58 AM
Hello,

I have done a few searches about the catch can and have noticed a few unanswered questions. I need an education, if anyone is willing to answer.

1. What is the difference between the stage 1,2, & 3 catch cans?
2. Why is the RX catch can so popular? (it seems that there are many alternatives for a considerably lower cost)
3. Is the RX breather made specifically for our vehicles (3.6L DI) or can any old breather fit?

I have been wanting to purchase a blue square catch can that i found on ebay, but am unsure as to the difference in quality. It seems like too simple of an item to have such a large variation in price. Is one really that much better than the other? Please enlighten me so that I may be an educated consumer who makes smart decisions.

(And before you say it, I have done the forum searches!!!)

Thank you for your time and knowledge!!!!!! :bighead:

Edit: I have found an interesting read with some answers. Check it out here: http://reviews.ebay.com/Buying-the-RIGHT-catch-can-for-your-vehicle?ugid=10000000019384879

HurstGN
09-28-12, 01:55 PM
Searching the forums, I found many references, and lots of them referenced others that referenced others that were on the Camaro forums. Considering that SC2150 makes these, I would hope he steps up and not only answers your questions, but assembles all this info into a single, comprehensive article that can be referenced by all on this forum. I know when I was looking, I was directed all over the place and it is a bit frustrating to have to track all over the place.

SC2150
09-28-12, 07:20 PM
I agree I need to compile all in one thread, but here are some good links to understand:

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=250890
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=251125

Here is a good one showing the cheap ones in comparison and a detailed expalnation:
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=249974

There are several other cans that work very well beside the RX, but not a single one can equal seperating all, or nearly all the oil from the rest of the evac vapors.

Here is the order in which they rate in the pull through tests. Anyone can do a pull through test to see for themselves. Just pick up a inline clear glass fuel filter from any auto parts store ($8-12) and install it between the outlet of any can (most are just empty cans with 2 fittings and the few with an internal design are not designed so they work properly other than the ones I'll list)and the intake manifold vacuum source.

You will see in 100 miles or so the filter get saturated with oil that is pulling right through most cans.

Here is how they stack up in order of the best functioning of the only ones we tested and feel worth installing:

RX beat all except the $6-$12K centrifuge industrial units.

Saikou Micchi (close second, out performed all others)

Elite Engineering & AMW (very similar designs and both equal each other)

Mike Norris/CCA/Catchcans.com (all the same but branded for different companies....work very well).

No other can out of the dozens we have purchased and put through the same testing have come close....even some super high priced beautifull looking cans with some big well known names on them).

I'll try and add more when I have time. (pictures of the different cans disected so you can see why they dont work well. remember, ALL cans will catch oil....its what they allow through that matters as you want NO oil ingestion).

bronik90
10-16-12, 06:39 AM
So I'm installing the vmax iceolator, and I plan on installing a can as well. Would you recommend a single or dual valve can? Sorry to be so clueless, but I figured it may depend on what mods I've done to my engine.

tinman
10-16-12, 12:22 PM
I still wonder about this one: http://www.42draftdesigns.com/categories/products/catchcans.html

SC2150
10-16-12, 01:24 PM
Single valve is what you need.

The 42 draft design definately looks like it will function better than most due to the internal design. We are ordering one to do the pull through testing, but looking at it in depth I predict it will be one of the better ones. It has 3 layers of stainles screen that will coalesce the oil to help separtae them from the rest of the crankcase vapors. It has no integrated check valve to prevent back-flow, but most do not.

The RX can is the only one that has the 3 steps of coalescing, condensing, and filtration and out performas any other...but I see no reason not to try the 42 draft.

:thumbsup:

tinman
10-16-12, 02:14 PM
Personally, if the RX is close to or better than most cans I would buy it. It is a quality product and has been proven that it works well in our application. I believe in supporting those who support us.

MoFex
10-16-12, 05:34 PM
Personally, if the RX is close to or better than most cans I would buy it. It is a quality product and has been proven that it works well in our application. I believe in supporting those who support us.

+1 on this one! That's why I went with RX.

SC2150
10-16-12, 06:57 PM
Thanks for the support all.

Here are pictures of the RX can in the raw, and the inner workings:

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii115/RevXtreme1/RXnewbigFIcan003.jpg
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii115/RevXtreme1/RXnewbigFIcan002.jpg
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii115/RevXtreme1/RXnewbigFIcan001.jpg

This of course is unfinished and the looks are not pretty, but if you follow, the oil laden crankcase vapors enter through the center tube that travels through the seperate outlet chamber into the coalescing chamber where the tube is perforated so the vapors disperse evenly through the media where 95% of the oil is removed and drips out the perforated bottom into the condensing and collection chamber. They then have to travel along the outer surface between the coalescing chamber and the vapors further cool so any residual oil is condensed to droplets and fall into the bottom. Then the vapors travel past the disc separating the condensing & collection chamber intop a separate outlet chamber where the oil separated vapors exit at a controlled rate through the flow controlling checkvalve leaving little or no detectable oil left in the crankcase vapors.

At no time are the oil separated vapors mixed with the incoming vapors as most all cans have, the size of the chambers and the media are substantial, and the distance from the inlet to the outlet is over 7" plus.

Also, the size of the can allows the flow to slow enough that the droplets are not carried back out with the stream of vapors. The small cans the velocity, or speed of the flow through remains to great and smaller droplets are always pulled through.

:thumbsup:

condork464
10-17-12, 11:24 AM
ok. i'm convinced.

stagow
10-28-12, 01:50 PM
So I recently purchased a 2009 CTS4 with the 3.6DI. When I bought it there was 27000 miles on it. I now have 31000 and from what I can see I have not used any oil. So my question is if I am not using oil is there still a need for the catch can. I will be especially interested to hear what SC2150 has to say. I will also add that I am somewhat disappointed on the mpg. I recently took an 800 mile trip that was probably 95% highway and I got maybe 22mpg. The original owner said she got 27-28 mpg on the highway. Thanks for your responses.

jimtreber
10-29-12, 02:18 AM
So I recently purchased a 2009 CTS4 with the 3.6DI. When I bought it there was 27000 miles on it. I now have 31000 and from what I can see I have not used any oil. So my question is if I am not using oil is there still a need for the catch can. I will be especially interested to hear what SC2150 has to say. I will also add that I am somewhat disappointed on the mpg. I recently took an 800 mile trip that was probably 95% highway and I got maybe 22mpg. The original owner said she got 27-28 mpg on the highway. Thanks for your responses.<BR><BR>Personal experience: I shared the same thoughts. With over 6000 miles on an oil change it didn't appear to use any oil, still on the full mark. But I was amazed to drain over an ounce of water/oil mixture from the RX can.

MoFex
10-29-12, 08:45 AM
I changed oil last week after 5,000+ miles and drained the RX can. I was amazed how much oil was caught. In a day or two I will take a photo of a glass jar used to drain the oil.

I wich I installed the can when I go the car new.....

SC2150
10-29-12, 12:26 PM
With the 30k miles on and not using noticable oil you have a good ring sealed motor. The fuel economy can be improved by trapping the oil ingestion into the intake air charge as any oil is causing some detonation and the ECU pulls timing as the knock sensors detect this. As the posters above have shown, even if you see no noticable oil consumption, there is still several onces ingested into the intake air charge no matter what between changes and this needs to be prevented.

The other thing is the deposits on the intake valves causes the engine to not perform as efficiently as when new (the deposits reduce the volumetric efficiency of the port and valve design thus less power and poor fuel economy):

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii115/RevXtreme1/gunkbuildupfromoil.jpg
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii115/RevXtreme1/LLTvalves2.gif

So, at this stage your valves look like the pictures and short of removing the heads and manually cleaning them, an upper induction cleaning will remove some of buildup and help restore MPG and power, but make sure the oil is changed immediately afterwards as the deposits are very hard and abrasive and some will get pushed into the crankcase past the rings. The catchcan at this stage will prevent further buildup and give peace of mind.

Make SURE to empty every oil change....just had a customer that had went 15k miles without emptying and it was bubbling oil in as the can was beyonf capacity.


:thumbsup:

stagow
10-29-12, 06:00 PM
Thanks for all the comments on my situation especially your expertise SC2150. One more question. Could you explain what an upper induction cleaning is (and I think this will be rhetorical) is there a chance GM will cover it under warranty?

MoFex
10-30-12, 08:49 AM
I wonder how much for cleaning? I am sure it is not a cheap service...

SC2150
10-30-12, 12:06 PM
Probably no on the warranty...upper induction cleaning is a big profit generator for all dealer service centers and the cleaner only costs $12-$18 and most charge $150-$350. It is a solvent that is introduced into the intake air charge through a vacuum port while running and it loosens some of the deposits so they come free and are pushed out the exhaust.

WRXtranceformed
10-30-12, 01:41 PM
Definitely glad I made this purchase before my last oil change. Just got the car back from the mechanic, he drained out over 1/8 of a quart of oil from the catch can. That would have otherwise ended up in my intake system.

Definitely a good product that does its job well!

stagow
11-02-12, 05:17 PM
Probably no on the warranty...upper induction cleaning is a big profit generator for all dealer service centers and the cleaner only costs $12-$18 and most charge $150-$350. It is a solvent that is introduced into the intake air charge through a vacuum port while running and it loosens some of the deposits so they come free and are pushed out the exhaust.

In one of your earlier posts you stated that when doing this yourself to use the "seep method" or something like that. Would you elaborate on that? Does that new method I saw where there is a nozzle that sprays must in front of the intake work? thanks

HurstGN
11-02-12, 06:29 PM
I understand the breather for the valve cover originally did not fit 100%. It hit the hoodliner if I'm not mistaken. Has this been fixed? If it has, how can you tell the new design from the old design? I want to make sure I'm going to be OK on clearance before I install the breather. I might get to it this weekend weather permitting.

SC2150
11-02-12, 07:57 PM
We were able to sink it app 1/2" lower...but it still hits. Trying to get a lower profile one sourced.

On the induction cleaning yes, the spray is a more even way to introduce the solvent.

:thumbsup:

stagow
11-02-12, 08:15 PM
We were able to sink it app 1/2" lower...but it still hits. Trying to get a lower profile one sourced.

On the induction cleaning yes, the spray is a more even way to introduce the solvent.

:thumbsup:

So if I just ordered the catch can and breather for my 09 3.6 AWD the breather will not fit?

SC2150
11-03-12, 12:56 PM
It will fit but will push on the hood liner. If you need call direct and they can remove it from your order. 941-721-1826

:thumbsup:

HurstGN
11-05-12, 06:51 PM
Mine must be the older style then...it hits and prevents the hood from closing. I left a message on your answering machine.

SC2150
11-07-12, 10:20 AM
If you have one of the breathers that are to tall, please send it back with a detailed note and we will replace it with the low profile ones as we get them.

And for the V crowd,

Here are pics of a blower removed after 14k miles with the RX can installed. It came in with app 1500 miles on for the install:
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii115/RevXtreme1/RXcanonZL1blowerfor14kmiles.jpg
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii115/RevXtreme1/RXcanonZL1blowerfor14kmiles2.jpg
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii115/RevXtreme1/RXcanonZL1for14kmiles.jpg

And here is a intercooler with 15k miles on it w/no can:
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii115/RevXtreme1/Maggieintercoolerwithoilcontamination.jpg
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii115/RevXtreme1/Maggieintercoolerwithoilcontamination1.jpg

You can see how rapidly the oil ingestion starts to bake on and the residue insulates the IC from being as effective as well as restricting the flow through.