I was just curious as to what some people have done out there for more power out of a 4.9. Are there intake manifolds available? and what about the exhaust manifolds? Are there headers made for these motors? I'm completely new to caddyland, so I figured this would be the easiest way to find out more. also, any websites reguarding build-ups would be great. not the how-to, but the route taken and the results.. thanks..

Check out fiero.nl. those guys do 4.9 swaps into their fieros and many of them are modded. Some include a turbo, nitrous, LT-1 TB, bumped compression, port and polish, roller rockers, camshafts, along with basic exhaust and intake. Do a search on this forum for "4.9 performance" or something similar. There are a few really great threads with lots of tips and links. There are almost ZERO aftermarket for 4.x motors. You've gotta be creative and make your own stuff mostly. Good luck to you!

OH, and on mine...:

19lb MSD injectors
custom short ram cold air intake
2.5" Magnaflow exhaust (no cat)
Accel cap/rotor
8mm MSD wires
Accel HEI super coil
4 degrees advances timing
17x7 SLP GTX wheels
225/45/R17 Kumho Ecsta

I ran a 13.2 1000' at the track with this.

Here's a link so you can look at my motor and the car. http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/446455

Illumina's got a nice set-up on his 91 Seville, and has got lots of plans for his current 4.9 buildup! Wait for his reply!

lacseville has it right. you have to be a little creative. however, if you click on my user name and go to "homepage', you can see what you can do with some bolt-on parts. i claim 50 extra hp, but most likely less than that. still, the gains are noticeable and worth it IMO.

if you want high gains in the hp/tq department, you'll have to go inside the motor. under natural aspiration, you can do this:

port and polish heads, have the intake matched.
camshaft re-grind.
roller rocker arms with steel supports.
valve job, including larger valve areas.
ECM work will have to be done after these kinds of changes.

things you do not want to have done is an oversize bore. the sleeves will become too weak and the power gain will be minimal. don't do it.

overall, you will be looking at about $2000 plus in labor and parts, but these things shouldmgain you about an extra 100 ponies. even if you just have the heads done, you're still looking at decent gains.

So if I went with a rebuild, no overbore, no new cam? have to have reground? what about the best intake manifold and exhaust manifolds available for this motor? do the 4.1/4.5 have anything to offer to the 4.9? are there any websites with motor specs- cam lift/duration, bore/stroke, compression, etc.?

So if I went with a rebuild, no overbore, no new cam? have to have reground? what about the best intake manifold and exhaust manifolds available for this motor? do the 4.1/4.5 have anything to offer to the 4.9? are there any websites with motor specs- cam lift/duration, bore/stroke, compression, etc.?

cam lift @ 1.6:1 rocker ratio is about .396 exhaust, .384 intake.
duartion is 278 degrees for the intake, 274 degrees for the exhaust.
bore/stroke is 3.62 by 3.62.
compression is 9.5:1.

you are not going to find any performance intake manifolds or exhaust manifolds for this motor. nobody readily makes a cam for this motor either. and yes, you do not want to overbore: it is pointless and will compromise the integrity of the cylinder sleeves.

when these cars were designed, performance oriented driving was not in mind. that's not to say that the engine cannot perform, the cars were just not geared towards the younger performance driven market. they were for the older person wanting a decent luxury car that could haul its own weight.

to make them perform at any decent level, you'll have to get creative, and have some cash to match you creativity, if so needed. even though i have dumped around $1100 into my 4.9 liter, i only improved my 0-60 mph time by only over a second (8.6 stock, 6.8 modded with g-tech measurment), and the quarter mile about a second too (16.6 stock, 15.38 modded). even with these mods, the engine just doesn't have any balls up top, which is where the engine needs most of her power. last year when i last tested her, i trapped just around 90 mph in the quarter, a sign that she didn't have a whole lot of breath left. she has plenty of tourqe to move her, but once the high end comes along, she just lacks air.

again, forget about looking to crane cams, edelbrock intakes, or hooker headers: there aren't any for the 4.9 liter. if you take your stock 4.9 liter parts to a good machinest, you'll get plenty of power, though for a little more money because of the lack of the aftermarket.

the only thing a 4.1/4.5 has to offer are perhaps the exhaust manifolds. but i feel that the manifolds for the 4.9 do just fine.

for the best info, try this:

www.fieroaddiction.com

after some more research, I found this:

Cadillac 4.9 Liter PFI V8
Engine specifications


ITEM SPECIFICATION
Bore 92mm (3.623")
Stroke 92mm (3.623")
Piston displacement 4.9 Liter (300 cu. in.)
Compression ratio 9.5:1
Compression pressure at cranking
speed (throttle open)
140-165 psi
Horsepower 200 HP @ 4400 rpm
Torque 275 lb.ft. @ 3000 rpm
Valves
Face angle 45 deg
seat angle 45 deg
Head diameter - Intake 45mm (1.77")
Head diameter - Exhaust 38mm (1.50")
Rocker arm ratio 1.60:1
Valve Springs
Free length 49.5mm
Pounds required to compress
to 44mm (1.73")(valve closed)
68-76
Pounds required to compress
to 34.3mm (1.35")(valve open)
214-232
Camshaft Timing (with ramp @ .004" lift)
Intake opens 21 deg BTDC
Intake closes 257 deg ATDC
Exhaust opens 245 deg BTDC
Exhaust closes 29 deg ATDC
Intake lift (at valve) 9.75mm (.384")
Exhaust lift (at valve) 10.06mm (.396")
Intake duration 278 deg
Exhaust duration 274 deg
Overlap 49 deg

Here's some links to take a look at.

http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/056125.html

http://www.fieroaddiction.com/caddy49h.html

http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/056684.html

http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/055516.html

13.2 1000' modded?

my '93 DeVille... 2.78 FDR... ran a best time of 15.9 @ 85mph at the track...

that was with 1/2 a tune up.... and a really bad cat. conv.

That was also with my 16" Seville SLS wheels and 225/60/16 Good Years....

I have misplaced the slip for my 15.9 run... the next best one i have is my 16.000 run @84.88mph... my 1000' time was 13.358

I have a hard time thinking that all the mods you did are only good for a tenth... if that in the 1000'? that wasn't the best lauch either... I didn't engine brake.... actually, my last run was when I really started lauching her the best... I honestly think if I really luach it good, a 15.8 is doable out of the stock 4.9/'93 DeVille....

car was nroaml, trunk empty, no spare etc... 2/3 tank of gas though... I have a K&N drop in panel air filter... and I don't think it had the new plugs/wires then... it sure didn't have the new cap + rotor (which made a nice difference).... and the cat was rattling soo bad it would cause the enigne to stall and idle very bad....

getting the FDR of the Touring Sedan (2.93 IIRC) would really help... but maybe make it shift into 3rd in the 1/4... which would actually slow it down a little.... but my car is pretty quick... IIRC I had around 92k at the time (98k now)

Here I am... I was with a Grand Am club... so... there was a lot of Grand Am's.... IIRC this was agasint a supercharged Grand Am... he was insane off the line.. but they had air/fuel problems and were testing... I actually cought up, passed, and beat him....

look how much the nose of my car is in the air and the back is low... lol.... good times...

if there are sleeves in the motor, why not replace them with bigger bore ones? isn't that the way the new small blocks are?

if there are sleeves in the motor, why not replace them with bigger bore ones? isn't that the way the new small blocks are?

no. the 4.x series engine blocks are nowhere near the same as current motors with sleeves. the sleeves in the 4.x are ONLY for the 4.x engine block, as are any other sleeve-in-block engines i might add. there is no way to interchange them.

you can bore the 4.x sleeves to .020, but it is a difficult procedure and you will not get any real power gain from it. the only reason that the sleeves are able to go .020 over is because of possible wear problems. but if you've opened up any 4.x engine (i've done plenty), you'll see that worn cylinder sleeves are hardly ever an issue. hell, most of them still have their original cross-hatch patterns from the factory. in all, if bored, you will go from 4.9 liters to just about 5.0 liters...nothing to scream about.

if you're really interested in decent power gains, just have the heads an intake manifold done by a performance machine shop. you may pay out of your ass, but the performance gains will be worth it.

Here's some links on porting cylinder heads yourself:

http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/printthread.php?Cat=&Board=best&main=453684&type=thread

http://www.sa-motorsports.com/diyport.shtm

I ported the cylinder heads on my Diesel Suburban myself a while back because I needed more power to tow my 26' Airstream trailer. All I can say is that it made a huge difference.

Here's some links on porting cylinder heads yourself:

http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/printthread.php?Cat=&Board=best&main=453684&type=thread

http://www.sa-motorsports.com/diyport.shtm

I ported the cylinder heads on my Diesel Suburban myself a while back because I needed more power to tow my 26' Airstream trailer. All I can say is that it made a huge difference.

you're putting un-pure thoughts into my innocent head with all of that info...

when i removed the heads on my old 4.1 liter, i could see where there could be quite a bit of material taken off. the one link claims a 19 hp gain from a 300 hp engine. my best guess is that the 4.x heads will offer a little bit more. i think i'll go shopping for a dremel tool and some carbide bits this weekend :lildevil:

if i estimate correctly, a good milling of the heads, port and polish along with some valve work (enlarging perhaps?), i think we could see about a 35-45 hp increase in power for the 4.9 liter engine...perhaps more. also to consider is some ecm work: more feul will be needed for the increase in air. i just don't know if larger injectors and a FPR will work for that kind of change.

i think we could see about a 35-45 hp increase in power for the 4.9 liter engine...perhaps more. also to consider is some ecm work: more feul will be needed for the increase in air. i just don't know if larger injectors and a FPR will work for that kind of change.

I think you can get more than 19 hp increase from a 4.9. Even getting 19 hp increase from a 300 hp engine that is putting close to 1 hp per cubic inch is quite impressive. With my 6.2 diesel, I increased my power more than 50 hp with my mods. It started out with only 125 hp and now it tows almost as well as my dads 210 hp turbo diesel.

Rather than larger injectors, how about piggy-backing a megasquirt system?

yeah, the guy who did the fiero 4.9 liter turbo claimed quite an increase. he stated that when he installed the turbo to a basically stock 4.9 liter, the fiero ran a 13.4 on the 1/4. when he said he ported and polished the heads, and had the camshaft re-ground and a few other little things, they ran a 12.2 on the 1/4! also, i don't think he milled the heads while running the 7 psi of boost.

now that was quite the increase. i don't know how much you have to port to get thoses results (1.2 second increase), but im sure it isn't rocket science and that i and anyone else can do it.

the way i figure it, with a good-low miliage 4.9 with the mods i have done, 15.2 isn't out of the question. i ran a 15.38 at best, but she had around 135,000 on the clock at the time. if i was to port and polish the heads with the intake matched, mill the heads a bit, and add the correct air/fuel ratio, then a 14.7-14.8 1/4 mile wouldn't be out of the question.

rebuild the engine and do a milder cam, have a multi-angle valve job with perhaps larger valves, and add the turbo with intercooling, i think mid to high 13's is doable. might consider not milling the heads for that setup though. remember too, a good transmission setup will have to be made.

i went to my mothers and got a set of old 4.1 liter heads and looked them over.i don't know if you folks cans see it, but there is an ass-load of material that can be shaved from these heads. i know they're only 4.1 heads, but i've seen 4.9 heads too: they too can lose quite a bit of metal for more performance. now all i have to do is order the porting kit and buy a dremel tool and start to work on these 4.1 "dummy" heads.

I need to get myself the needed tools, so I can start playing around with porting. I can do the heads for my 427, but I'd prob do those after a bit of practice with some other heads first.

If you want to save a lot of money on tools and abrasives, try www.harborfreight.com

Those small sanding rolls that fits to a dremel tool works really well.

i went to my mothers and got a set of old 4.1 liter heads and looked them over.i don't know if you folks cans see it, but there is an ass-load of material that can be shaved from these heads. i know they're only 4.1 heads, but i've seen 4.9 heads too: they too can lose quite a bit of metal for more performance. now all i have to do is order the porting kit and buy a dremel tool and start to work on these 4.1 "dummy" heads.

just curious but how would you go about shaving metal off the heads, what ways can you do this, if you can a example or mock up would be cool.

just curious but how would you go about shaving metal off the heads, what ways can you do this, if you can a example or mock up would be cool.

a 1/4" dremmel tool rated at 10000+ rpms is a must. you'll also need 1/4" carbide bits and various grit sanding bits for the job. once i have the tools in my hands, i will step-by-step this porting process of my 4.1 liter heads. look at some of the links edahall provided: they're some porting kits and instructions there. i am also going to look into the "kit" the one site offers. if they don't have reasonable prices, i'll just go to msc.

there is a huge chunk of material around the valve guides in the intake runners that can be removed. there is also some material that can be shaved from around the head-bolt holes, from inside both runners. just inside the intake runner there is a drop-off to the valve that could be smoothed for a more free-flowing direct path to the valves.

i have also recieved information from a highly reliable source that a lot of the intake porting must be done within the intake manifold. i've seen too many of these manifolds, and i can tell you the source is 100% correct. i have a 4.5 liter intake laying around my mothers basement. i'll take some pics of that and show them off too.

cool man, have fun doing that cause i know your gonna

i have also recieved information from a highly reliable source that a lot of the intake porting must be done within the intake manifold. i've seen too many of these manifolds, and i can tell you the source is 100% correct. i have a 4.5 liter intake laying around my mothers basement. i'll take some pics of that and show them off too.

One thing you can do with the intake manifold to make it smooth as glass is to use epoxy to fill in all the imperfections. Just don't do this with the heads since the epoxy won't hold up to the high heat.

Iwas just looking through and saw this and just need to clarify a few things,I am running a fully modded 4.5 in my fiero on pennock fiero forum and is currently the fastest powered 4 x series wit a 11.97 at 119mph in the 1/4 mile I am also replacing this motor with a 5.1 custom motor which produces in excess of 435hp and it can be seen at Daytona in March18-20 for those who lives nearby.The pics of the intake manifold was done by me and make a world of difference with regards to the engine breathing also there are aftermarket cams available from Delta cams in Tacoma Washington and roller rockers from Blazer are also on the market .I will drop in from time to time since I am always on pennocks also the intake manifold and headers Ido those at special request ................thanks guys. :D

welcome welcome welcome! Quite a few of us drop by pennocks forum and I see your name all the time. Very very nice fiero btw! are you going to punch the liners to get your 5.1? sounds kinda risky... thanks for stopping by and you could probably provide us with insight from time to time!

why would you use a 4.5? the 4.9 has more power/torque out of the box.... unless you wanted the shorter stroke on purpose....

can you give us more info about the cams and other performance parts that you can get?

Here is the link to aftermarket cams http://www.deltacam.com/index.htm just send them your old cam or a core and tell them what you are trying to get and they will come up with a profile of the cam and the cost is $100 the intakes are $150 and for further information my email address is magiccityenterprises@adelphia.net and I will be glad to answer your questions.

hello.

i have been eyeballing pennock and fiero addiction for some time in regards to 4.x performance. i am planning a turbocharger setup for my 4.9 liter also! but it will be in my 1991 cadillac seville.

thank you for the link and the heads up. also, i am looking for some ecm editing software for the cadillac ecm...not another ecm, and i don't want others to do it for me. i would like to tune my eprom and such so i can get a feel for what i want and so i can tune per modification, as i will have the new 4.9 liter engine with camshaft and heads installed long before the turbo will be installed, thus needing to edit the ecm each time. i would like to hack my ecm so i can have her run NA first, then worry about the turbo.

again, any heads up on ecm software would be great.

thank you, illumina.

also, if you want to see what i have thus far, click my user name and go to my homepage.

well, so much for the one set of 4.9 liter editing software. the jerk that i mailed said he "had" it but he was "limiting" his distrobution of it for now: what a crock of shit!

well, i contacted ed wright from fastchip and told him what i had done to my seville. according to him, i should drop the adjustable fuel pressure regulator (FPR). so this weekend, i will give that a shot. as far as tuning my car for a turbocharger, he told me that they cannot do that: they just offer the basic chip for my car and nothing more.

on a side note, i talked to the guy that i reffered to as a jerk in my last post: he's actuall pretty cool. when i do the turbo, i am either going to have to stay with the stock ECM and use some MSD hardware, or i can opt for a different ECM. he suggested that maybe, just maybe i can use the ECM from the typhoon/syclone and get an editor from him for those ECM's. i will have to input the cylinder variables and such, but it might be possible. they also have the 2-bar map readings that i need. i have not got an answer yet as to how it will affect the other caddy CM systems, especially the OBD and the like.

any thoughts?

I think you can get more than 19 hp increase from a 4.9. Even getting 19 hp increase from a 300 hp engine that is putting close to 1 hp per cubic inch is quite impressive. With my 6.2 diesel, I increased my power more than 50 hp with my mods. It started out with only 125 hp and now it tows almost as well as my dads 210 hp turbo diesel.



have you tired advancing the injector pump a little ? seems like i did that on one and got a decent gain ....

Illumina,

Just wondering if you are aware of the Megasquirt fuel injection system. Seems like this would be the way to go since you use the existing fuel injection system (throttlebody, injecters, O2 sensor, etc.) and hook the Megasquirt electronics up to it. It is easily programmed and there seems to be a lot of support out there. The downside I can see is you would loose the onboard display in your car unless you could piggyback this system in the form of an extra injector that would feed the engine the extra gas. I’m just throwing out ideas but to me this seems like the way to go.


Stoneage,

I'm currently running my car with the timing at 13 degrees. It did increase the power and even with cheap 87 gas it barely pings. I probably could advance it more and run 91 fuel. I'm also running the engine with the EGR disconnected. With my free flowing Flowmaster exhaust, the EGR no longer worked since the EGR requires backpressure to open up.

Illumina,Just wondering if you are aware of the Megasquirt fuel injection system. Seems like this would be the way to go since you use the existing fuel injection system (throttlebody, injecters, O2 sensor, etc.) and hook the Megasquirt electronics up to it. It is easily programmed and there seems to be a lot of support out there. The downside I can see is you would loose the onboard display in your car unless you could piggyback this system in the form of an extra injector that would feed the engine the extra gas. I’m just throwing out ideas but to me this seems like the way to go.

holymoly edahall! is this shit for real?

i like it. i was considering using the *auxiliary* TBI system from the 4.5 liter, but i wasn't sure how i would get it to work. yes, i would do a piggy back system too. i looked at one of the FAQ's sites for megasquirt, and they claim it can do this.

so far, it looks like i need this:

TBI with injectors,
auxiliary fuel pump,
auxiliary fuel lines,
megasquirt,

looks like with the piggyback, i don't need all the extra sensors too...im getting too many ideas...thanks for the info edahall.

OK, now that I got you interested. Below are some support web sites and a forum on the Megasquirt system. Looks like the possibilities are limitless and no more bottlenecks with regards to more power.

Is the car you're going to build up the 1991 Seville with the multiport fuel injection? You might be able to mount the 2 4.5 TBI injecters to feed gas down the existing intake manifold and run these 2 injectors with the megasquirt. All the existing sensors already on the car would feed into the Megasquirt. The only thing that I can think of that would not work accurately is the fuel economy display but that's no biggie.

I look forward to what you come up with since my 4.5 Eldorado is getting up there in miles. It's been a fantastic car but when the time comes (300K miles :suspense: ), I really would like to swap in a modified 4.9 and drive this car another 10-20 years. I really like the classy looks of this car over the newer ones in addition to the compact size of the car. Once I get this car modified, then next is my Allante going from a 4.1 to 4.9. :D

This site has all the design and build information of the Megasquirt.
http://www.bgsoflex.com/megasquirt.html

This is a great support site for the Megasquirt computer, for installation and tuning.
http://www.msefi.com/

This is the Yahoo Forum for the Megasquirt computer.
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/megasquirt/

new development: tunercats might be able to help me out with the cadillac ECM. they have a lot of software for the buick 3.8 liter from 1991 (non-supercharged), but didn't list the cadillac. i emailed them and asked them if they could help. they also have a nice tuner system that seems to use an easy GUI interface, therefore you don't have to know all of the binary coding that goes into the GM ECM's. we'll see when they contact me back. i'll let all know what is up when i get a reply.

that said, i was considering either the 4.1 injectors or the pre-pfi 4.5 injectors with the 2" throttle bores of the 4.5 liter TB if i go to the megasquirt system. looks like i'll have to run an extra fuel pump too, but that's no real biggie.

i would like to send cadillac a nice big F*** YOU in regards to their ECM's!

that said, the folks at tunercats helped me out with the real skiny: because of the BCM (a few other sources told me the same thing), tuning is very difficult for these ECM's due to the coding and such. the thing i need is either a 2-bar map ECM (again, will not work right due to the BCM), or an auxiliary fuel system: mega-squirt looks to be the best choice as of now.

so once i get my lap-top running, i am going to purchase the mega-squirt system and the components i need to get things working right. i may install the turbo as a pre-rebuild to the 4.9 liter once i get my '87 running smoothly.

so far, i will need:

in line auxiliary fuel pump,
TBI system from the 4.5 liter engine,
additional auxiliary fuel lines,
adjustable fuel pressure regulator,
mega-squirt system.

for the turbo i will need:

turbocharger (already done),
extra exhaust tubing,
deville exhaust manifolds (already done),
deville cross-over pipe (already done),
intercooler (seen one on ebay for less than $100.00, so consider that done),
nesessary piping for the turbo,
MSD boost timing controll (i recieved a healthy gift certificate from jegs, so consider this done),

so far, that should cover thing pretty well. any suggestions, drop a line.

Sounds good. What kind of turbo did you buy? I think you want something that puts out about 5 psi of boost.

How about your transmission? I think at the minimum you need to install a shift kit such as one put out by Transgo. I don't think a stock transmission is going to hold up too well to 300 hp and close to 4000 lbs. There might be some other hardened parts out there for these transmissions to handle to torque but I'll have to check on that.

http://www.msdignition.com/tc_24.htm

^does anyone know if this thing will actually work?

it seems like a good idea compared to the plumbing i will have to undergo with the megasquirt, but im not too sure if the injectors will actually fire the fuel.

the adjustable regulator i have actually seems to be letting less fuel in the car at idle and off-idle. the right and left fuel banks read around 112 at idle and up to around 2000 rpm. it should be 128 for both banks. i would think that with more fuel, the numbers would be larger (above 128), but they aren't. perhaps the ecm will only allow so much fuel irregardless of how much fuel you try and push on it. does anyong know any better (bbob)? therefore, im not too sure if this (msd booster) thing is going to make the injectors fire more or not. i cannot even tell if it is a 2-bar map sort of thing, if it applies to this device (see link).

ed wright from fastchip imformed me about larger injectors and the regulator on this engine. he told me they're going to mess things up if installed: he seems right thus far.

so, to clearify the question:

will the msd fuel pump booster actually put more fuel out (read above link for what it actually does), and will the injectors actually take it?

or will the stock (read f***ed up) ecm not allow more fuel to be spent, irregardless of what i try and do to increase fuel output?

anyone who can answer this will become my buddy... :D

What turbo do you have? How much boost are you planning to run? Probably not very high, I doubt an intercooler would do a whole lot of good if it's in the single digits or low 10s. Also maybe you should consider ditching the regular ECU and letting megasquirt run the show, are you sure on board displays are worth the extra cost of "piggybacking" it?

What turbo do you have? How much boost are you planning to run? Probably not very high, I doubt an intercooler would do a whole lot of good if it's in the single digits or low 10s. Also maybe you should consider ditching the regular ECU and letting megasquirt run the show, are you sure on board displays are worth the extra cost of "piggybacking" it?

from what i can tell, doing a seperate fuel system for the additional boost will not affect the main ecu or the obd display...as long as it is not tapped into the stock system. i may get an engine light because of too much fuel mixture/ spent fuel going through the stock o2 sensors. there are a few "cheater" sensors that will eliminate that problem.

intercooling the turbo will affect performance in a very positive way: it will keep detonation away. the 4.9 has a CR of 9.5:1 and will need the coolest air i can push into her, irregardless of the amount of boost i push. i plan on running around 6-7 psi of intercooled boost MAX. the intercooler will in effect raise boost levels a little bit, because the cooler air being forced into the engine will be more dense.

along with the 2-bar map reading megasquirt system as a piggy-back, i should have more than enough fuel to keep from running lean. tuning the system will be rough though because i don't want to over-richen the mixture either. timing is taken care of: the MSD boost timing master is more than sufficent to keep timing from over-advancing during boost. between the fuel enhancement and the timing module, it will be a matter of tuning things right and praying that i don't blow something in the process.

if there was some way to hack the cadillac ecm in a way where i can change injector constants and such, i would do it. so far i have found nothing but dead-ends to editing the 4.9 liter ecm. say i could get the software for the caddy ecm, i would imagine that it could never run a 2-bar map system. i would have to adjust the fuel flow according to acceleration, which will make it difficult to fine tune for boost, especially high amounts (that proabaly wouldn't apply here though).

the turbo i am going to experiment with is rather small; it is the mitsubishi TE04H from a '92 lebaron. from what i have gathered about this turbo is the fact that it is a little too small...especially for an 8 cylinder engine. i am going to port the turbine inlet and waste gate a little, but the compressor housing is the weak-link here. it ran the lebaron to 7-8 psi with intercooling. with a V8, i imagine the power will be a right-now sort of deal, which means minimal turbo-lag. it may also mean that there will be minimal power up top (past 4500 rpm's) to affect times by whole seconds...we'll see though how it works out.

the way things are looking right now, the turbo will come online rather quickly, probably around 2500 rpm's or perhaps sooner, due to the small size. the power will likely last through 4500 rpm's and begin to fall off. if i could get a larger turbo (pennock's fiero forums used a GM T4 trim for a 6.5 liter diesel), the power band will likely shift to 3000 rpm's to over 5000 before fall-off...personally, that turbo seems too large to fit inside the cadillac engine compartment. i will probably keep it small.

should i hook it up right now, permitting that i have all of the right parts and without rebuilding the engine, i would expect about a full second off of the 1/4 mile...and that's with 150K on the clock. the car with a turbo on that kind of miliage will likely fall apart just a little over 151K :annoyed: :shhh:

CRAP! soon as i leave the states and sell my baby you all find a way to make turbo charging a 4.x ALOT easier. Well, after i go home i think i'll be getting another caddy like my old one and look into that twin turbo idea i had. Its so easy to save money here so i should be good on that. Man i miss my baby!

here is a picture of the new air intake. this time, i am drawing cooler air due to the heat shield and the routing. note that the new filter is a 4 inch K&N cone filter.

Very nice bro! If you made a few of those, you could probably find a small market for them around here and on Ebay! That looks super nice! If I was keeping mine, I would try to shield mine in a similar manner. Great job! :thumbsup:

Yep looks fantastic.....what is the piping made of?

I'd think that small of a turbo would operating outside the efficiency range most of the time. Which would cause the turbo to be a major restriction (due to surging) on one end and an air "heater" on the other. I guess you might be able to get by with a larger compressor on that, but I'd still check and see whats the max flow of the exhaust housing. Supposibly a good way to check if your heating the charged air too much is with a temp intake sensor, which megasquirt could use to control your blow off valve, or a hydrogen peroxide/water injector for extra cooling.

Good luck,
Brian

I'd think that small of a turbo would operating outside the efficiency range most of the time. Which would cause the turbo to be a major restriction (due to surging) on one end and an air "heater" on the other. I guess you might be able to get by with a larger compressor on that, but I'd still check and see whats the max flow of the exhaust housing. Supposibly a good way to check if your heating the charged air too much is with a temp intake sensor, which megasquirt could use to control your blow off valve, or a hydrogen peroxide/water injector for extra cooling.
Good luck,
Brian

i do worry about that.

if i am infact going with the smaller turbo, i am going to port the exhaust inlet out quite a bit. the small compressor housing is also of concern, but im not looking for gobs of boost.

water injection is just too much for now. a good air-to-air intercooler is all that i will need.

i've researched the larger turbos and they seem too big for where the turbo can be placed, it's almost like i will have to fabricate a cowl induction style hood for it to fit inside the engine compartment correctly.

i am going to price some larger turbochargers later on.

from the research i have done, the small turbo should work fine as long as i keep the charge air cool and do not overboost. i don't want an oven inside of the intake. i am only going for 6 psi (max) on this engine. she has 150K on the clock and i don't want to kill her right off the bat. the single biggest problem with the turbo i have is the exhaust inlet on the turbine: it is quite restrictive and needs to be ported at the very least.

the next best bet is a turbo that would fit a 5.0 liter ford engine or something similar/slightly smaller in size. all i need to do is regulate the boost a little so i don't exeed the desired boost output. the 6.5 liter diesel turbos that the pennock fiero guys using are too large (for the cadillac engine compartment) and quite frankly, i don't feel that i could take full advantage of the power band on them: they spool too slowly for a low-rpm engine like the 4.9 liter. i would like a decent gain in low-mid range torque and high rpm output if possible.

the other thing i have considered is to run the mitsubishi turbo off of just one bank, but i'm not sure if it will spool at all. if it does spool up, the rpm vs. boost may not be very advantageous: in other words, by the time it makes boost, it may be too high in the rpm range to be real effective.

i need to order a welding kit and at least a 20cf tank for welding the exhaust and turbochager adapters, which will no doubt have to be custom. so far, ebay has them for about $75.00 per part plus shipping. i may just order the kit there and get a tank around here.

I have a write up, efficiency maps, an excel turbo calculations files, for my dream 4.5L single turbo... I'll upload them from my home computer tonight to this thread. The 4.9L should be have higher efficiency with most of the turbos that I looked at, but some might be better for the 4.5L...

If you bore out your turbo I guess you would get better efficiency at high rpm at the loss of max efficiency... Im not sure how the surge line would shift, I would think to the right, (worse)...

Regards,
Brian

I have a write up, efficiency maps, an excel turbo calculations files, for my dream 4.5L single turbo... I'll upload them from my home computer tonight to this thread. The 4.9L should be have higher efficiency with most of the turbos that I looked at, but some might be better for the 4.5L...

If you bore out your turbo I guess you would get better efficiency at high rpm at the loss of max efficiency... Im not sure how the surge line would shift, I would think to the right, (worse)...

Regards,
Brian

there is a new development to the turbo; i may actually get a borg-warner from ebay. this one is the same that runs a fiero 4.9 at 12.2 seconds on the 1/4 mile...we';; see though how my pocketbook can handle this right now...stay tuned...

the plot thickens !

Sorry for the delay, just got internet in my new place in richmond, va... http://fbox.vt.edu/users/bweltero/turbo.zip is the accumulation of what I have researched and found out about efficiencies etc for turbos closely suited for the 4.5L But you can use the excel file in that zip to calculate the points of operation on the efficiency maps... ie boost at 5000rpm will make a straight line across, then the 'build up' line is created from boost at 2000rpm and about 3500rpm (or whenever max boost is just about created)

Have fun and dont try and sell this, all of this stuff I found on the net,
Peace,
Brian W

the linik seems corrupted...maybe it's me...

I just downloaded it. I think its you ;) God damn its cold, 17deg here, do you think a turbo 4.5L would heat up quicker and run hotter?


-Brian

dude, i use winrar and have downloaded it twice and i keep getting "multi-part corrupted files" or some shit. i'll try it with something else later on.

Im using winzip and it opens fine...

So how goes the turbo build up? Any progress?