: Timesert Process and Cost



Eldorado_RED
12-13-04, 09:51 AM
Hey how are you guys doing? I have a question about what the total cost of what the timesert process should be, could anyone please tell me the price range of these parts and where i should be able to find them (ex. autozone, napa)

This is going to be the second time the heads are being done so Im assuming im goin to need the larger timesert kit.

What kinda gaskets do yall recommend, and what other work should be looked at or worked on while the heads are being done.

Do i need to install a new intake manifold? (i read somethin like that on one of the posts)

Any help would be greatly appreciated, thanks for your time. Have a blessed day.

haymaker
12-13-04, 08:29 PM
I guess first off is it a diagnosed or proven blown head gasket? If so do you know the engine was time-serted at the time of the first head gasket repair? If so has anyone proven that any of the existing time-serts have failed? It is still possible to have a blown head gasket and all the time-serts to be fine (serviceable). If in fact you need the second repair kit you can find both it and the standard N* time-sert kit here
http://www.timesert.com/
Some people have found used time-sert kits on eBay.
As to the gaskets and bolts you can find the GM parts here. http://www.gmpartsdirect.com/

I really donít have any idea why you would need a new intake manifold? Is there a know problem with your intake manifold?
You planning to do this yourself or are you taking the car to a garage?

Eldorado_RED
12-14-04, 02:22 PM
Hey Haymaker, thanks for the reply. The Cadillac dealership diagnosed it as bolts pulling out the thread. Paperwork says timeserts were used in the first repair. Every mechanic I came across wanted me to replace the engine but now I found a mechanic that says my engine is still good and I should just redo the head gaskets. But now this is where im not really sure what im getting into:

1) mechanic 1 says he’s going to charge me 700 to take the heads off the engine, then tow the car to a machine shop where another mechanic will redo the head gaskets. (im thinking that mechanic 2 is really going to do all the work and the 700 is just mech 1 referral fee)

2) mechanic 2 is goin to charge 900 for parts and labor to install new head gaskets with 20 bolts w/ timeserts (says he has to do all 20).

3) Mechanic 1 is charging about 200 for oil pump, gaskets, and intake and outtake gaskets (At this link, they advised to replace the intake manifold, http://www.babcox.com/editorial/us/us100232.htm)

4) Now all this should total to about 2000, which is low to me considering the dealer charges about 3500 for a head gasket job and other places want about the same price, and the cost of putting a new engine in is about 4-5 k.

Is it possible to do just one bank? What are your suggestions? I have made previous posts about the situation. Please let me know if u have any more questions or if you think something sounds fishy. Thanks for your time, have a blessed day.

By the way, the car has about 94,000 miles on it and it started to overheat 14,000 miles after the first head job.

haymaker
12-14-04, 09:41 PM
Does the paperwork for the first repair state that both head gaskets and all twenty time-serts were installed? Before I repaired my own í97 SLS I called the Cadillac service department and priced the head gasket repair. They priced the repair for just one side or both sides. I was quoted $3,300 for both sideís parts and labor. I am just trying to determine if was possible only one head gasket had been repaired and now the other head gasket has failed.
Had the dealership given a warranty on the original head gasket repair that has now failed?

As to the time-serts failing, to date I havenít read any posts on this forum as per failure after the engine has been running the only ones I have read are failures at head bolt tightening. Based on the failures at the time of the head bolt tightening and the fact Time Fasteners co. produces a second repair (big-sert) kit for just such a problem it must happen from time to time.

I would be asking both of these mechanics if they have ever worked on the N* engine much less install the head gaskets and time-serts? The way you describe it the first guy takes the heads off then tows the car to the second guy to have the time-serts installed, thenÖ?? The second guy reassembles the engine and fires it up or after the time-sert installation does the car get towed back to the first guy to reassemble the engine? I would doubt the first mechanic has ever removed a cylinder head from a N* and if the second mechanic plans to time-sert all twenty inserts with the engine in the car I doubt that he has ever install the first time-sert in a N*. I saw a post here once, in which a guy time-serted the rear bank with the engine in the car. Wow, is all I can say. That would be a tall order. Iím not saying itís impossible but I would never try it that way.

I think the shop manual calls for the entire drive train on the cradle to be dropped out the bottom. I pulled my engine out the top but that is an entirely different story. The point being the engine needs to be removed before time-serting. I know that you have looked in your engine bay and can see for yourself that the engine looks as though it were born there and then grew to size. There just isnít any room to work with the engine in the car.
I would ask these mechanics how many N*s they have repaired in this manner and if they canít prove they have repaired many I would look elsewhere.

As to the intake manifold replacement the article you referred to indicated only if the engine had suffered a complete or catastrophic failure in which debris could have traveled into the intake manifold. Your engine just has a blown head gasket and in my opinion doesnít need the intake manifold replaced. I sure wouldnít. I donít know why he plans to replace the oil pump unless it is a know problem?

The bottom line is if you feel that you can trust them and they are willing to give you a full written parts and labor guarantee for a reasonable length of time, go for it because your right $2,000 total for the entire job is cheap. Itís just the reference to towing the car rather than transporting the engine or drive train to the second mechanic or shop for the time-serting makes me suspect he thinks he can repair the head gaskets in the car.

Spyder
12-15-04, 02:12 AM
haymaker makes many good points, number one...if the car is going to be towed, but the first mechanic is removing the engine...that doesn't make sense...wouldn't he just have to transport the engine itself, if the first guy removes it?

Eldorado_RED
12-15-04, 01:00 PM
Once again, thanks for the insight guys.
Haymaker to answer your questions..The paperwork does show that they did both head gaskets and 20 timeserts. The dealer gave a 1 year, 12 k mile warranty, but it failed about a year and a half later at 14 k.

The process that mechanic 1 decribed to me does raise some red flags, but he told me that mechanic 2 can do the job without removing the engine, which im critical about. Im not a mechanic but what are the main and difficult procedures of the timesert process? Mechanic 1 was goin to charge me 700 to install another engine. But now he wants to charge me 800 to remove the heads !!! which he says is a more difficult job. He also wants to put in new gaskets sets, can u tell me what parts i should keep and what parts should be looked at or considered for replacing.

I was thinking the same thing Spyder, but Ive been looking for someone willing to do the head job for a reasonable price where im located for the past 7/8 months and this is the only person i came across.

Now heres the thing that has got me sticking with this mechanic, work sounds a little fishy BUT he is willing to give me a 1 year, unlimited mile warranty and guarentee on his work.

Please let me know your thoughts again, and if you want i can email you what i find out next directly so you could get it sooner. Once again thanks you. Your help has been priceless

STS 310
12-15-04, 01:39 PM
I would definatley want to SEE the new timeserts in before everything was buttoned back up. Especially since there is hardly any room for small jobs let alone a job like this.

Spyder
12-15-04, 02:14 PM
Yea...one of the "main and difficult procedures" of doing headgaskets is removing the engine from the car...800 for an engine replacement is very low...I had estimates of almost two grand to put one in my car, so i did it myself. if the mechanic is a well established one that is pretty much guaranteed to not go out of business, then the warranty he offers is good...if they may move or go down before the warranty expires, you'll be screwed if anything happens. If its a well established shop, take the warranty, for sure! That's a great price for doing the headgaskets, IF the timeserts are going to be used.

Fiero STS
12-15-04, 05:20 PM
If the block already has the timeserts then you just need to repair the gasket no timeserts. If the timeserts failed you will need the bigserts installed only on the holes that failed.

caddywhizkid
12-15-04, 09:13 PM
Hey how are you guys doing? I have a question about what the total cost of what the timesert process should be, could anyone please tell me the price range of these parts and where i should be able to find them (ex. autozone, napa)

This is going to be the second time the heads are being done so Im assuming im goin to need the larger timesert kit.

What kinda gaskets do yall recommend, and what other work should be looked at or worked on while the heads are being done.

Do i need to install a new intake manifold? (i read somethin like that on one of the posts)

Any help would be greatly appreciated, thanks for your time. Have a blessed day.
Hello I have done PLENTY of timeserts and I can garantee that if done right time serts will NOT pullout. Now your car probably had some poor repair done, of all the headgasket/timeserts I've done I've never had one come back. I'm in Ct if you were closer I would fix your car for a 1000$ or less.

Eldorado_RED
12-16-04, 10:44 AM
Thanks for the help once again guys.
Fiero STS, that makes alot of sense, but the mechanics i came across are out there to make money, i dont have any idea what a failed timesert looks like so i wouldnt be able to tell that just do this one or that one. And plus they make more money if they do all 20, so im stuck between a rock and the crack of a plumber's ass.

Caddywhizkid man i wish you were closer cause you would get that 1000 on the spot including a case of liqour. Yea the dealership did a poor job and since it was out of warranty they arent claiming responsibility, i even called GM customer service, they werent no help either. Hey can i meet u halfway in virginia or something haha.

IF ANY OF YOU GUYS KNOW ANYONE THAT CAN HELP ME, PLEASE LET ME KNOW IM IN ATLANTA, GA

Thanks for yall time, have a blessed day.

zonie77
12-16-04, 10:34 PM
A failed timesert is going to be pulled loose from the block or turning in the block. Either way it should be fairly obvious.

You should be able to inspect it yourself to be sure..

If the mechanic can't tell a failed timesert he's no mechanic!