: 2008 Cadillac CTS vs Lexus IS F



fortes89
08-18-12, 02:44 AM
Hello guys,

Considering to do a trade in for a 08 black on black Lexus is f. On mileage both are about the same 30k... pricewiswe Lexus is more expensive about 10k considering my CTS at 25k and the Lexus at 35k.

My engine is the non Di 3.6 compared to the v8 5.0 of the isf :).
no nav no sunroof :( ... the Lexus has all that.

The Lexus comes pretty nice looking out the box no need to do anything basically, my cts has already some aftermarket stuff ( eibachs, 20" rims, tints, blacked out lights...HIDS...)

Can i hear some opinions from the experienced?

(Don't mind the engine too much, besides the Lexus gets the win there) but that isn't the main thing making up my mind.

vincentm
08-18-12, 02:49 AM
Id keep the caddy and skip on the toyota

brandondeleo
08-18-12, 04:32 AM
The IS-F has the edge over the CTS with the V8, but the CTS is bigger (mid-sized vs. compact) and the CTS is FAR more attractive on all counts by a freaking landslide. It'd be the CTS for me. I can live without nav (most cell phones have it just in case you need it anyway) and a sunroof is a good feature unless you need the headroom (like I do.) :lol:

C&C
08-18-12, 04:48 AM
Thinking of Lexus, Pink Floyd comes to mind: 'Comfortably numb'. But don't go by me, get what you want, however, remember you're asking this question on a Cadillac Forum.

brandondeleo
08-18-12, 04:54 AM
Thinking of Lexus, Pink Floyd comes to mind: 'Comfortably numb'.
Great reference! Never thought about it that way.

Well, minus the drugs.

Jesda
08-18-12, 05:15 AM
An actual IS-F? That's quite a beast, and comparing it to a mid-tier CTS isn't exactly fair. Think of the IS-F as an attempt at being a CTS-V.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
08-18-12, 10:05 AM
If the additional power isn't a concern to you, then I wouldn't even bother trading.

fortes89
08-18-12, 10:32 AM
I ask in a caddy forum because if you guys tell me, yes isf is better its because it is danm better :) The engine isn't the main decision of my trade but it sure influences...and yes the CTS is pretty attractive but the ISF isn't ugly, it looks pretty aggressive.

97EldETC
08-18-12, 10:32 AM
I love the IS350. I would rather not have an F for the v-8 reason. My mother has the 07 IS350. Jus perfect if you ask me. But then they have had Imports since I was born (honda, Toyota, Lexus, jaguar,). It's a nice car! A little slow to 60, but it has get
Up and go and if you get the chrome wheels, your set. she has matador red with stock wheels.

It's my profile picture.

truckinman
08-18-12, 12:14 PM
An actual IS-F? That's quite a beast, and comparing it to a mid-tier CTS isn't exactly fair. Think of the IS-F as an attempt at being a CTS-V.

I was thinking exact same thing. The IS F is Lexus answer to the M3, and Mercedes C class AMG. Something like 425 hp pumps outa that 5.0 in the F. They even had to make the hood differently from other IS models to accommodate for the larger V8

thebigjimsho
08-18-12, 02:49 PM
I love the IS350. I would rather not have an F for the v-8 reason. My mother has the 07 IS350. Jus perfect if you ask me. But then they have had Imports since I was born (honda, Toyota, Lexus, jaguar,). It's a nice car! A little slow to 60, but it has get
Up and go and if you get the chrome wheels, your set. she has matador red with stock wheels.

It's my profile picture.I don't like the IS, in general. I don't find it terribly attractive. I thought the old IS looked much better. The IS is tiny. I am cramped in the front seat.

For an ubersedan, it's auto only which I hate. The faux tailpipes are heinous.

BUT, I would take all that if the Yamaha massaged V8 is anything like my SHO's V6. Yamaha works magic in their heads. And if that 400+ hp gets there anything like the SHO's 220, it would be a BLAST...

Playdrv4me
08-18-12, 06:43 PM
I had one of those generation ISs and I genuinely liked mine save for the underpowered 2.5L mine had. That said, 35k goes a long way...

Aron9000
08-19-12, 02:05 AM
I had one of those generation ISs and I genuinely liked mine save for the underpowered 2.5L mine had. That said, 35k goes a long way...

This . . . . .

I'd be seing what sort of deals my local BMW dealer has on NEW 2012 3 series. I'm sure for 35k they'd all be 328i's with the non-turbo inline six, but I'd be happy with that. I'm sure they're trying to unload them since the 2013 is a new body style.

That being said, I think the current IS is kind of dowdy/ugly, but that v8 is a sweethart. Unless you are a speed junky, keep your CTS. If you are a speed junky, go buy a CPO BMW 335i with the twin turbo inline six, put a tune on it(voids the warranty though) and have a 400+hp rocketship for about another 1-2k. I'd also go shop an Audi S4, just make sure its a CPO car with a warranty. Those came with either a supercharged v6 or 4.2 v8 depending on year.

I think an 09+ CTS-V is out of your price range, but damn its such a step up from the base model.

Playdrv4me
08-19-12, 02:24 AM
This . . . . .

I'd be seing what sort of deals my local BMW dealer has on NEW 2012 3 series. I'm sure for 35k they'd all be 328i's with the non-turbo inline six, but I'd be happy with that. I'm sure they're trying to unload them since the 2013 is a new body style.

That being said, I think the current IS is kind of dowdy/ugly, but that v8 is a sweethart. Unless you are a speed junky, keep your CTS. If you are a speed junky, go buy a CPO BMW 335i with the twin turbo inline six, put a tune on it(voids the warranty though) and have a 400+hp rocketship for about another 1-2k. I'd also go shop an Audi S4, just make sure its a CPO car with a warranty. Those came with either a supercharged v6 or 4.2 v8 depending on year.

I think an 09+ CTS-V is out of your price range, but damn its such a step up from the base model.

They're not too far off. Easily in the low 40s!

http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?zip=63017&endYear=2013&modelCode1=CTS&showcaseOwnerId=68340&startYear=2009&makeCode1=CAD&engineCode=8+Cylinder&searchRadius=0&maxPrice=48000&showcaseListingId=291202482&listingId=324727753&Log=0

If you're willing to take a higher mileage car, the dealer TBJS bought his from has this little gem. 35 would be easy on this I'd bet... http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?zip=63017&endYear=2013&modelCode1=CTS&showcaseOwnerId=68340&startYear=2009&makeCode1=CAD&engineCode=8+Cylinder&searchRadius=0&maxPrice=48000&showcaseListingId=291202482&listingId=324407760&Log=0

fortes89
08-20-12, 07:43 PM
thanks for the comments.

i mean if i change my car i want to change it for something different, i liked the isf because its more appealing to younger people, im only 22 but don't get me wrong, i have managed to make my CTS very sexy looking :) but i don't know there's something about it that makes the car feel like an unfinished product, especially the interior. Anyways i still like the cts and mine looks good with all the AM Stuff i have on it... i have yet to decide on trading.

Lord Cadillac
08-20-12, 10:04 PM
I'd take the IS-F because I don't like driving slow cars. I think the CTS is a little more attractive on the outside and has a little more room on the inside - but that weak engine would bother me too much. The Lexus is still luxurious on the inside even though it's the performance version of the model. Plus, it's worth more and will continue to hold it's value better. If gas prices don't bother you, take the IS-F. If you don't need the power, keep the CTS.

2blackcaddies
08-20-12, 10:37 PM
Cadillac all day. Is has it in power, but it's still a Toyota. I'd get a 07 ctsv before the Lexus. Maybe I'm old school but the only Lexus I'd personally even consider owning is the ls 460

fortes89
08-21-12, 10:27 AM
I don't know i just think that the CTS sedan is missing style to be looked at as a sport sedan, as a regular sedan it is a beautiful car. i mean if i wanted a sports car i would consider the coupe v i just cant afford it at the moment. The CTS 4DR is big so it looks awkward in races while the lexus looks more sporty (im not saying is nicer looking altogether) its just when you look at both from the sports side of view, the ISF has the notch.

Lord Cadillac
08-21-12, 12:31 PM
Cadillac all day. IS has it in power, but it's still a Toyota. I'd get a 07 ctsv before the Lexus. Maybe I'm old school but the only Lexus I'd personally even consider owning is the ls 460

You said it. You're old school. :p Which mostly isn't a bad thing. The thing is - "it's JUST a Toyota" or "it's JUST a Hyundai" doesn't work anymore. These companies are building respectable automobiles. As you mentioned, The LS460 is a very impressive full size premium rear wheel drive luxury sedan with a V8. Something many of us Cadillac enthusiasts would love to have with a wreath and crest on it. Genesis Sedan. Equus Sedan. These cars are not top notch but they're certainly competitive... An Escalade is just a Chevy - but does anybody really care? No.

RippyPartsDept
08-21-12, 01:07 PM
Saw an LS460L in traffic the other day. Next to me at a light and that extra length makes it look much better to me.

truckinman
08-21-12, 01:26 PM
^^^agreed. I like the longer ones. But for me that goes with all the premium luxury sedans. Audi A8L. BMW 760 iL. I just like the larger cars like that.

concorso
08-21-12, 02:02 PM
Cadillac all day. Is has it in power, but it's still a Toyota. I'd get a 07 ctsv before the Lexus. Maybe I'm old school but the only Lexus I'd personally even consider owning is the ls 460The IS-F is as much a Toyota as the CTS-V is a Chevy.

concorso
08-21-12, 02:08 PM
Thinking of Lexus, Pink Floyd comes to mind: 'Comfortably numb'. But don't go by me, get what you want, however, remember you're asking this question on a Cadillac Forum.Lol, drive your STS and the IS350 back to back, and tell me which car feels more numb? The IS-F is a really nice car. It looks a little too boy-racer for my tastes, and there are some cheap aspects to it that are dissappointing, but its a solid car. Great exhaust note, decent steering feel (as good as any AMG Ive driven), strong brakes, lots of power... Even with 8 speeds, it didnt hunt for gears either. It wasnt driven slow, tho, so I dont know what it would be like in traffic.

Lord Cadillac
08-21-12, 02:36 PM
Lol, drive your STS and the IS350 back to back, and tell me which car feels more numb? The IS-F is a really nice car. It looks a little too boy-racer for my tastes, and there are some cheap aspects to it that are dissappointing, but its a solid car. Great exhaust note, decent steering feel (as good as any AMG Ive driven), strong brakes, lots of power... Even with 8 speeds, it didnt hunt for gears either. It wasnt driven slow, tho, so I dont know what it would be like in traffic.

I'm sure it's no more difficult to drive in traffic than a CTS-V.

2blackcaddies
08-21-12, 09:38 PM
Well, I'd say there is a difference between saying "it's just a toyota" and "it's just a chevy". Cadillac was purchased by gm in 1909. It has it's own heritage and history separate from chevy. It was the standard of the world. It was an innovator. It blended art and science far before it was an advertising ideology. Lexus was dreamed up by Toyota in the 80s when they wanted to get into the luxury segment, and knew no one would take "Toyota" seriously. Cadillac has pedigree that Toyota can't assign by giving it another brand name. I've driven them all, Ls, Es, Gx, Rx, Is etc. None of them have the spirit, the passion that we get from Cadillac. Think about it. A camry is an appliance. It has all the personality of a refrigerator. It is a transportation device period. The problem with Lexus is (to me) I can still feel a bit if that "appliance" feeling shine through. Nice cars, well built, nice materials, etc, but no heart. I drove the f. Best Toyota performance wise ever. But I can't drove one and not think.... This is Toyota. From japan. The sons of bitches that bombed Pearl Harbor. Ok, ok, I'm having fun with it now, but there's some truth in there. Cadillac is symbolic of American excellence. It's like baseball, apple pie, hamburgers, Cadillac. Cadillac speaks to us in ways a no other carmaker will ever. I guess I'm sentimental, and yes I'm old school, and yes, my father and grandfather drove nothing but Cadillac exclusively throughout their lives.... But still, no Lexus, or infinity or BMW will ever make me feel the way Cadillac does. Mercedes gets close..... But no cigar. Cadillacs first model was in like 1903 or something. That means something. Lexus was thought up as a way to trick the world into paying more for a Toyota. Yes, yes, they are nice.... Yes they are showing that they can play in The performance realm with the F, but when I drive one, I still feel a bit of that Camry "transportation appliance" shining through. Is it in my head? Allot of it, probably. But nonetheless, it real. Lexus is as much an equal to Cadillac as Lamborghini is an equal to Ferrari. That being said.... I think it is still much more fair to say "it's just a Toyota" than it is to say, "it's just a chevy". Lately, yes, avalanche and ext, lucerne and dts, xts and lacrosse, hell cavalier and cimmaron (ouch). But the spirit is still there and strong. We don't say, "hey, I'll pull around my car", we say "hey I'll pull around my Cadillac. A Cadillac is not just a car. A Toyota, or a Lexus, is still just a car. Ok, I'm going for a drive. Just got my cts put back together. I've got the boys waxing my deville and it's a gorgeous night. I think I'll ride down to Leon's and get a hot fudge Sunday.

thebigjimsho
08-21-12, 10:41 PM
Lexus came in with guns blazing, causing the Germans to take notice and adjust. Cadillac had a renaissance with the Germans as the goal. So thank Lexus for making Cadillac relevant again...

2blackcaddies
08-22-12, 03:10 AM
Cadillac needed a jump start to become relevant in the early 2000s and we got it. Yes, Cadillac looked at what the Germans had done with luxury cars in finding the new art & science direction; but I don't think it's fair to the Germans to say that Lexus influenced them before that and then Cadillac picked up the ethos after. I met Mercedes engineer once and I asked him how come my old 92 sl500 didn't have an adjustable steering wheel. "because we put it in the correct place" was his answer. Basically, I don't think the Germans even gave Lexus a second thought, guns blazing or not. Let's look at Lexus models between 90 and 2003 when the cts came out. I don't think any of them influenced the Germans, so saying thank Lexus for kickstarting cadillacs "relevance" I think is wrong. After all, I'm pretty sure there was a ctsv long before there was a lsf. Somebody at gm in 99 might have said "oh look, Toyota made a nice car. Imagine that.". But I doubt anybody at gm said "oh man, look at that Lexus.... We better come up with art and science and develop 3 models that do 0-60 in under 5 seconds by 2005". I'll thank the Germans for their success in building sporty luxury cars thereby influencing cadillacs reboot, but I won't thank lexus; I just don't think the influence is there. Nice cars, yes. In the league of Cadillac, no.

brandondeleo
08-22-12, 03:15 AM
"Because we put it in the right place." LOL what a crock of crap. Someone needed to slap that guy upside the head...

2blackcaddies
08-22-12, 03:47 AM
@brandondeleo He was 100% not kidding. Very pretensious and stuck up. The reason I tell the story is to illustrate that it is impossible that a guy like him drove a Lexus and was like "let's do it like these guys".

brandondeleo
08-22-12, 03:50 AM
Maybe everybody in Germany is exactly the same size, and we just didn't know it! :lol:

I don't know... I can understand the argument that the Japanese kind of poked the Germans with a stick, but I don't think that the Japanese have actually influenced any German models. If you word it that way, "let's do it like these guys", I agree with you. I don't see that.

On a side note, I disagree with the "it's just a Toyota" thing. I've driven lots of Toyotas and lots of Lexuses (pl?) and in my experience they're very different beasts. Someone mentioned the Escalade previously (which is a PERFECT example of this idea) and it's spot on, but anyone who's driven a Suburban and an Escalade recognizes the huge differences between the two. At least I have.

thebigjimsho
08-22-12, 04:10 PM
If you don't think that Lexus had an affect on the Germans, you're insane. Making an adjustable steering wheel happens when your cars become obsolete...

orconn
08-22-12, 04:57 PM
Let's face the Germans, Mercedes in particular, BMW and Audi to a lesser extent (but still very evident) made a whole "industry" out of being supercilious in general and being genuine *******s in particular when it came to their over rated automobiles. Even back in the 1940's and '50's when German cars inferior steel and electrical components gave their cars the reputation of rust bucket unreliable nightmares that disintegrated three times as fast as American cars. And even though German cars required regular and specialized maintenance to keep their small displacement engines (in heavy over engineered cars) on the road at least some of the time, and their maintenance and repair parts cost double or triple what parts from their American and Japanese competitors, German salesman and technicians managed to convince insecure Americans, looking to one up their neighbors, that the cars they produced really were superior to all other cars in the world!

I remember when Taking my family's 300D sedan in for service in the 1950's and later taking my aunt's 450SL in for service the sneer of the German service writer who haughtily intoned "What did you do to our car?" Now at the same time I was dealing with Cadillac and Oldsmobile dealers .... and even Jaguar dealers who were far more accommodating and provided far better service than the German car dealers did.

Fortunately for me I had lived in other countries where German cars were just everyday taxis .... and also where the "preferred"taxi was a good, low maintenance, highly reliable Ford or Chevy. The swanning, nose in the air attitude affected attitude of the German dealership personnel didn't convince me of the superiority of their product or the inherent "Superior Engineering" of German cars ... much less other products. But the air of superiority sure did work on the American public who has apparently swallowed the German schtick hook line and sinker!

2blackcaddies
08-22-12, 06:59 PM
@bigjimsho I don't think I'm insane... but I Kay be missing critical information. Please provide evidence that the Germans were influenced by the japs. I just can't imagine BMW, Mercedes or Audi giving even a fraction if a sh#% what Lexus did... Based on their attitude and air of self proclaimed pure superiority.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
08-23-12, 12:33 AM
I hate the arrogant "our stuff is better than everyone else's and you'd better feel honored to own it" German engineering mentality. That's why I'm glad to sell Korean/Japanese cars and drive an American one. I've never heard anyone say their German car is incredibly reliable or durable. They may make some good products, but they're no more trouble free than any other car and as we all know, when German cars have trouble, it is NOT cheap and often requires a specialist to diagnose & repair.

Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of German cars I really like, but I am extremely sick of the attitudes of the companies and a lot of their owners.

Aron9000
08-23-12, 12:47 AM
^Plus the Germans can never come clean and admit that some of their cars were quite frankly junk(Audi 5000, w220 S-class come to mind)

orconn
08-23-12, 12:55 AM
What, let the myth of "Superior German Engineering" be sullied by the truth! Horror, upon horrors!

Koooop
08-23-12, 01:08 AM
Snooze fest vs. blast to drive.

thebigjimsho
08-23-12, 04:16 PM
^Plus the Germans can never come clean and admit that some of their cars were quite frankly junk(Audi 5000, w220 S-class come to mind)

Umm, the Audi 5000 was an excellent auto in its time! I had at least 2 friends who owned them...

hueterm
08-23-12, 04:19 PM
Waiting for Orconn...5...4...3...2...

orconn
08-23-12, 04:42 PM
Umm, the Audi 5000 was an excellent auto in its time! I had at least 2 friends who owned them...

I owned an Audi 5000S Avant and had at least ten friends who also owned Audi 5000's, from our accumulated experience I would say that the mid eighties Audi 5000 was a good design poorly executed with defect prone components. Each one of us who owned 5000's experienced repeated failures of the same components and haughty rebuke from Audi dealer service personnel. The car while an OK car , in the German idiom, to drive when running, it was a bogus ripoff when service was required (which was often). The parts bin assembled, badge labeled car, that are really just Volkswagens with different bodies, believe that the Audi badge confers on them the status of a "Porsche" and the right to gouge their owners accordingly.

While I often admire the beauty of the simplicity of Audi exterior and interior designs, I will never again be tempted own another of these over hyped, over priced automobiles!

thebigjimsho
08-23-12, 07:46 PM
I disagree.

EChas3
08-23-12, 08:28 PM
@bigjimsho I don't think I'm insane... but I Kay be missing critical information. Please provide evidence that the Germans were influenced by the japs. I just can't imagine BMW, Mercedes or Audi giving even a fraction if a sh#% what Lexus did... Based on their attitude and air of self proclaimed pure superiority.

Start-Stop Tech.

Lord Cadillac
08-24-12, 01:01 PM
This is all so overcomplicated. I think a lot of opinions are a direct relation to World War Two. Some people just hate Japanese people and anything that comes from Japan. Same for German people and Germany. At one point or another in the U.S. there were many, many people who specifically hated German and Japanese people and it still carries over today. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree. You grow up hearing your father cursing at certain people and you at least have to wonder if he's got a good reason. Some people get over it - some people don't. Some people experienced World War Two first hand and simply still hold a grudge. Hate it hate and it's not going anywhere.

orconn
08-24-12, 01:30 PM
Judging from the driveways and garages of affluent America, at least on both coasts, those most directly affected by the perpetrators of W.W. II and their descendents seem to have avidly let bygones be bygones!

thebigjimsho
08-24-12, 01:35 PM
I buy the best car available that I can afford. That's why I drive Cadillacs now...and not in the 90s...

orconn
08-24-12, 01:39 PM
^^^ I agree with that sentiment, but sometimes I have been fooled!

Jesda
08-24-12, 02:38 PM
Umm, the Audi 5000 was an excellent auto in its time! I had at least 2 friends who owned them...

Had.


They both died in an electrical fire.

Lord Cadillac
08-24-12, 03:08 PM
This is all so overcomplicated. I think a lot of opinions are a direct relation to World War Two. Some people just hate Japanese people and anything that comes from Japan. Same for German people and Germany. At one point or another in the U.S. there were many, many people who specifically hated German and Japanese people and it still carries over today. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree. You grow up hearing your father cursing at certain people and you at least have to wonder if he's got a good reason. Some people get over it - some people don't. Some people experienced World War Two first hand and simply still hold a grudge. Hate it hate and it's not going anywhere.


Judging from the driveways and garages of affluent America, at least on both coasts, those most directly affected by the perpetrators of W.W. II and their descendents seem to have avidly let bygones be bygones!

You're absolutely right. And many of those who have not simply do not like German and/or Japanese automobiles for that reasoning - not based on the actual product.

orconn
08-24-12, 03:35 PM
I think the big objection that most previous owners of German automobiles is their high cost to buy, to maintain, and the poor engineering which makes the total replacement of defective system necessary when the replacement of a single part within that system would fix the problem.

The extra expense of these designs and the inferior quality of some German car components is only compounded by the surly attitude too often encountered with German car service personnel and the extraordinary markup on maintenance and other parts. All this is only further aggravated by the perpetual whine of "Superior German Engineering!"

In my own case I have found the German cars I have owned, Mercedes and Audi, (The Volkswagen Scirocco was the exception) rather dull to drive and despite the surface quality of fit and finish have left me with the opinion that they are not reliable long term transportation. Friends who have owned more recent models of Audi, Merc and BMW confirm these observations.

On the contrary, the Japanese turn out cars, that while just as uninteresting to drive as their German counter parts, deliver reliable transportation over their lifetimes.

To be honest, the comments I hear on this forum seem to confirm what has been my experience with German cars. They also confirm the my observations on American cars of the seventies and eighties and in some cases well into the nineties. Products from all car manufacturers have gotten better over the years, in my opinion American and Italian automakers have come the farthest in improving quality and reliability.

96Fleetwood
08-24-12, 03:50 PM
The ISF is no joke. I drove a 2011 a couple weeks ago when I was getting an oil change on the GS. WOW!! It put a Gen 1 CTS-V to shame. Fit and finish felt just as nice as my GS. Only gripe was too many tranny gears and no manual option. I say go for it!

Koooop
08-24-12, 07:16 PM
Had.


They both died in an electrical fire.

Maybe they went through their garage wall due to unintended acceleration.

thebigjimsho
08-24-12, 10:51 PM
The ISF is no joke. I drove a 2011 a couple weeks ago when I was getting an oil change on the GS. WOW!! It put a Gen 1 CTS-V to shame. Fit and finish felt just as nice as my GS. Only gripe was too many tranny gears and no manual option. I say go for it!Unfortunately, by 2011 the V1 was no longer made. Something took its place...

96Fleetwood
08-25-12, 06:21 AM
Unfortunately, by 2011 the V1 was no longer made. Something took its place...


... and that is why I typed Gen 1 ;)

Aron9000
08-25-12, 06:28 AM
I think the big objection that most previous owners of German automobiles is their high cost to buy, to maintain, and the poor engineering which makes the total replacement of defective system necessary when the replacement of a single part within that system would fix the problem.

The extra expense of these designs and the inferior quality of some German car components is only compounded by the surly attitude too often encountered with German car service personnel and the extraordinary markup on maintenance and other parts. All this is only further aggravated by the perpetual whine of "Superior German Engineering!"

In my own case I have found the German cars I have owned, Mercedes and Audi, (The Volkswagen Scirocco was the exception) rather dull to drive and despite the surface quality of fit and finish have left me with the opinion that they are not reliable long term transportation. Friends who have owned more recent models of Audi, Merc and BMW confirm these observations.

On the contrary, the Japanese turn out cars, that while just as uninteresting to drive as their German counter parts, deliver reliable transportation over their lifetimes.

To be honest, the comments I hear on this forum seem to confirm what has been my experience with German cars. They also confirm the my observations on American cars of the seventies and eighties and in some cases well into the nineties. Products from all car manufacturers have gotten better over the years, in my opinion American and Italian automakers have come the farthest in improving quality and reliability.

My experience with my two ~20 year old Toyota products, is that they were "built to a standard, not a cost". This despite their $25,000 price difference and level of care(or in the case of the truck, lack of care).

2blackcaddies
08-27-12, 04:46 PM
Back on topic after thinking for a few days and letting my innate compulsion to defend all things Cadillac simmer down a bit I guess my final answer on this one is yes, if you are looking for a performance sedan, IS-f beats the pants off a 08 cts. My argument doesn't dispute that. However it's not a true comparison, brand wise. A IS-f is positioned as competition for a CTS-V. I'd personally probably keep the 08 cts, because im biased. However, I do believe that if we put a ctsv and a isf head to head just based upon what's a better drivers car, ceteris parabus the Cadillac would prevail. Be it gen1 or gen3, I think the v is more exhilarating. AND I'm a Cadillac nut so no comparo. Why would the Lexus product be to truly be matched against cts. ES? GS? IS? Well IS starts at 33k, ES starts at 36k and GS starts at 46k. So a loaded es or a modest gs maybe... I'd take the caddy for the money. Now, if ya gave me a loaded ES I wouldn't mind.... But I'd PAY for a new CTS 3.6 DI loaded up. Again I'm biased but as far as cts vs isf, I guess after cooling off for awhile I'd say "go for it" as long as you don't have this damn Cadillac bias disease like I do.... Geez, I'm almost like a Mercedes engineer i once talked to in reverse....

2blackcaddies
08-27-12, 04:47 PM
*meant to write "g1 or g2" (so nobody picks nits.)

Koooop
08-27-12, 04:51 PM
I suspect I've owned more Cadillacs than most here.

CTS vs. ISF? I don't even understand the question.

ISF wins hands down.

2blackcaddies
08-27-12, 05:47 PM
Yes but what about ctsv vs isf? and why

2blackcaddies
08-27-12, 05:47 PM
And have you driven them both?

vincentm
08-27-12, 08:13 PM
This is all so overcomplicated. I think a lot of opinions are a direct relation to World War Two. Some people just hate Japanese people and anything that comes from Japan. Same for German people and Germany. At one point or another in the U.S. there were many, many people who specifically hated German and Japanese people and it still carries over today. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree. You grow up hearing your father cursing at certain people and you at least have to wonder if he's got a good reason. Some people get over it - some people don't. Some people experienced World War Two first hand and simply still hold a grudge. Hate it hate and it's not going anywhere.


I've a great uncle (89 yrs old now) who landed with th
First wave on Omaha D-Day, growing up he owned nothing but Ford, hates everything German, still keeps his BAR under his bed!

My dad(72yrs old), Ford man till he dies, but loves rotary engines, and early Volkswagen engines. This is a man that would dissasemble a 4 barrel carb on a piece of plywood on his lap just before he goes to bed. Would talk so much crap about Chevy and Japanese cars, hates GM, the day I brought home my 92 ETC, he sat on the porch as I pulled up, and just sat there staring at it, didn't utter a word to me for 3 hours while just staring at it, later that evening he turned to me and said " ya know, I hate GM, but that's a beautiful design, I don't like these new cars (this was in 2001) but that's a nice car, let's work on it!"


As for me, I appreciate the engineering that goes behind all cars and parts because simply I love science, but im a Cadillac man all the way and don't think I could ever own a Japanese or German automobile.

2blackcaddies
08-27-12, 08:21 PM
In response to lord cadillac's post "overcomplicated" I'd agree. My grandfather (rip) drove a tank into paris, and when he saw me driving a mr2 years ago he said "ya know ya just paid the sons of bitches who bombed Pearl Harbor". ... So that's where I got my quote from earlier in the thread. It illustrates lordcadillacs point perfectly.

Koooop
08-27-12, 11:23 PM
Yes but what about ctsv vs isf? and why

This wasn't the OP's question.

2blackcaddies
08-28-12, 02:16 PM
We've been off the OP's question for several pages now....

Lord Cadillac
08-28-12, 02:30 PM
Another way to look at this is 2008 CTS (NON-V) vs. 2008 BMW M3. It's the same type of comparison except the Lexus is far more comfortable, luxurious, reliable and while handles excellent - isn't quite as tight as the BMW. It's probably one of the fastest, more comfortable small cars you can buy.

thebigjimsho
08-28-12, 02:56 PM
Another way to look at this is 2008 CTS (NON-V) vs. 2008 BMW M3. It's the same type of comparison except the Lexus is far more comfortable, luxurious, reliable and while handles excellent - isn't quite as tight as the BMW. It's probably one of the fastest, more comfortable small cars you can buy.

Unless you're my size.

truckinman
08-28-12, 03:36 PM
Unless you're my size.

Hell when I use to weigh 360 lbs, I was driving around in a 2003 mitsubishi eclipse GTS. Lol. Talk about a small car. I'm under 300 now n driving around in an STS. Talk about bass-akwards timing. Lol

thebigjimsho
08-28-12, 04:10 PM
The size of the car often doesn't dictate cockpit size and comfort. At 250lbs, I couldn't fit in an S2000. Couldn't get the seat back enough. At 280, I fit in a Miata, no problem. Except for snug side bolsters, the BRZ is generous in interior room...well, for the front seat anyway...

concorso
08-29-12, 09:34 AM
Even with 8 speeds, it didnt hunt for gears either. It wasnt driven slow, tho, so I dont know what it would be like in traffic.

I'm sure it's no more difficult to drive in traffic than a CTS-V.I wasnt commenting on how difficult it would be to drive. I was saying that I dont know if the trans would hunt for gears at 'stuck in traffic' speeds, as I only drove it at a very brisk pace.

1percenter
09-06-12, 06:34 PM
personally would go with the lexus =X

Lord Cadillac
09-07-12, 10:19 AM
personally would go with the lexus =X

I'd take the IS-F over the 528i and E350 as well. Same shit...

97EldETC
09-07-12, 12:32 PM
I'd take the IS-F over the 528i and E350 as well. Same shit...

I really like the roundedness of the I think 04-08 model years of the E-class. Just perfect. The new one is alright, but not like the previous generation!

Lord Cadillac
09-07-12, 04:37 PM
I really like the roundedness of the I think 04-08 model years of the E-class. Just perfect. The new one is alright, but not like the previous generation!

I REALLY like the E55 AMG... Just saying...

97EldETC
09-07-12, 06:55 PM
I REALLY like the E55 AMG... Just saying...

What years? Now matter what to me 320, 350, 550, AMG 2004-08 is the best for me.

Lord Cadillac
09-10-12, 03:31 PM
What years? Now matter what to me 320, 350, 550, AMG 2004-08 is the best for me.

I'd love to own a 2004-2008 E55... Plenty of power, easy to modify and comfortable... Oh and pretty classy looking too.