: So I have turned to the Dark Side . . . . . . Bought a Lexus . . . . . . .



Aron9000
08-10-12, 04:39 AM
So if you were following my other thread about "sporty Lexus, Lexi, or whatever" I won that ebay auction on a 1992 SC300.



I picked it up yesterday in New Jersey, and I must say this is BY FAR the nicest car I've ever owned. IMO its like owning one that is one or two years old, its that damn nice. Some older guy used it as a pleasure vehicle its whole life, garage kept, 61,000 original miles, never driven in the winter, only hand washed and waxed, anyways this guy was FANATICAL about maintaining this car. The paint looks nicer than some new cars I've seen on the dealer's lot, the leather is still glove soft, everything works, and it runs like a bat out of hell.




I've always loved the look of this car, IMO it looks like a speeding bullet. The dash design is really great as well with the "lexus" gaugues, the matte finished wood that bisects the dash and separates the darker top part from the lighter lower part. Its a modern classic IMO, both inside and out. Pearl white on the light tan interior is a classic color combo that never goes out of style, the paint simply glows when the sun hits it.

As for how it drives, its simply fantastic. The clutch is easy, the shifter reminds me of a Miata but with longer throws. The 2JZ inline six is a torque monster and the smoothest engine I've ever encountered. You cannot make this thing bog, acceleration is effortless. Its not the fastest thing on earth, but it moves out nicely if you work it over. 0-60 is about 6.5-7 seconds, quarter mile is about 15 seconds flat at 92mph or so from what I read and judging by the butt-o-meter. Its also eerily silent, wish there was a bit more bark from the exhaust. Only complaint is it swills premium fuel like a v8, I averaged 23mpg doing 75-80mph, but there was a lot of hills(West Virigina, Maryland, Eastern KY)

As far as the ride/handling, its more of a Gran Turismo than an all out sports car. The ride is simply sublime IMO, yes its firmer than my Caddy, but I like the ride in this car better. It completely snubs out any sort of small imperfection, and if you hit a really big bump, you do feel it, but the suspension really takes the edge off of it. The car itself feels a lot tighter than the Caddy, ie it never squeaks, creaks, or groans over rough pavement. I've been driving it straight interstate save for one backroad near my house, but the handling feels very secure on high speed sweepers.

Its a fairly big car but drives/feels smaller than what it is, something GM could really take a hint on with their old 4th gen fbody, C5, C6, and new Camaro. I think its because you don't sit completely ass on the ground in this car, plus visibility is excellent.

Anyways, I just drove this car from the Jersey Coast to Nashville, and I could not be happier. I know this model never caught on, but Toyota was onto something great with this car, IMO it was WAY ahead of its time.

Pardon the crappy cell phone pics.

http://www.fquick.com/images/vehicles/full/50071366904.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=366904)
http://www.fquick.com/images/vehicles/full/50071366905.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=366905)
http://www.fquick.com/images/vehicles/full/50071366906.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=366906)
http://www.fquick.com/images/vehicles/full/50071366907.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=366907)
http://www.fquick.com/images/vehicles/full/50071366908.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=366908)
http://www.fquick.com/images/vehicles/full/50071366909.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=366909)
http://www.fquick.com/images/vehicles/full/50071366910.jpg (http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewgallery.php?action=viewimg&id=366910)

MrHolland
08-10-12, 06:38 AM
WoW, that thing is clean!!!! Congrats

brandondeleo
08-10-12, 06:53 AM
Sweet!

Playdrv4me
08-10-12, 07:36 AM
Austin funneled me some early pics of this thing, really nice find. It reminds me of the 1991 LS400 we got for my mom a few years ago in FL in the same color and damn near the same condition, owned by an elderly couple.

Those SCs are extremely sought-after due to the modding potential of that inline 6, and to find one with a manual and with headlights that aren't hazed all to hell is truly unusual. My only suggestion would be to do something about those wheels (though staying stock, these don't look that great with aftermarkets).

Playdrv4me
08-10-12, 07:38 AM
Austin funneled me some early pics of this thing, really nice find. It reminds me of the 1991 LS400 we got for my mom a few years ago in FL in the same color and damn near the same condition, owned by an elderly couple.

Those SCs are extremely sought-after due to the modding potential of that inline 6, and to find one with a manual and with headlights that aren't hazed all to hell is truly unusual. My only suggestion would be to do something about those wheels (though staying stock, these don't look that great with aftermarkets).

I~LUV~Caddys8792
08-10-12, 08:25 AM
Wow, that thing is nice!

I sat down a minute ago with my 1997 Lexus SC brochure and after reading through the technical specs in it, I've found out you don't give up much in terms of performance when you move from the V8 to the I6. Yeah, it's a little bit slower to 60 and the 1/4 mile, but it's within about 1/2 second of the V8 and that 2JZ I-6 is such a sweetheart of an engine, IIRC it's one of the better I-6's of the last 30 years. I drove a friend's dad's '94 LS400 a few times and thought the engine was smooth and silent, but lacked any sort of emotion. You didn't get a rush of adrenaline when you wound the engine near it's redline.

Your car looks awesome and I'm assuming it's very hard to find an SC300 with the manual transmission! My only suggestion is to add the factory rear spoiler, it really ties the rear end together and makes it look a tad bit more aggressive.

M5eater
08-10-12, 08:43 AM
it looks brand new!

Good choice on the 2JZ..

hueterm
08-10-12, 09:19 AM
That thing is almost too nice and rare to drive...you should sell it back to Toyota...

M5eater
08-10-12, 09:24 AM
I just ask that you get rid of the tacky gold badges please.


kthxbie.

ted tcb
08-10-12, 09:41 AM
Great find .... Club Lexus has a very active 1st gen SC forum, worthwhile checking it out.
The 5 spd in that condition is like finding the Holy Grail.

How are the dash needles and climate/radio LCD panels?
The typical weak spot on these heavy cars were the suspension components and bushings.
Is your car still tight over bumps?
Clear headlights are impossible to find on early SC's ... either someone refinished them (good), or
your car was babied its entire life (better).

I agree with Ian, the car would look amazing with slightly larger wheels and tint.

Can I ask what type of investment was needed to acquire this car?
I'm envious, as I often check out early SC's on line.

Congrats!!

Night Wolf
08-10-12, 10:10 AM
Oh wow...... very nice! I6 + manual + RWD make that one of the very few Lexus that I find appealing. I really like those. That one is clean! Toyota needs to make cool stuff like this again.

Factory, no swap needed!

http://www.benzworld.org/forums/attachments/w202-c-class/232336d1239550059-my-c-class-2jz-ge-turbo-2jz.jpg

Aron9000
08-10-12, 12:21 PM
I just ask that you get rid of the tacky gold badges please.


kthxbie.

I agree, but they've been growing on me lol. Plus they aren't all faded like most gold badges so they'll stay for a while.

As for the spoiler, it would look great with a factory one, but I don't know if I could find anybody to perfectly match the paint. Pearl white is almost impossible to color match.

All the gauges work/look like new, everything works like it should. Like I said, total time capsule.



As for the wheels, the stock ones on it now are crap IMO. The 300's got 15" wheels from the factory, had to move up to the 400 for the 16" wheel option. Lexus made 16" standard on all of them in later years though, the 15" look tiny on this big car. Plus the paint on a couple of them is starting to peel.

What I'd really like is a set of 17" or maybe 18" BBS wheels, staggered width of course. Those are $$$$$$ though, so we'll see.
http://i364.photobucket.com/albums/oo84/409CISecondGen/SC%20Photoshoot/IMG_0157.jpg

I~LUV~Caddys8792
08-10-12, 12:28 PM
Go with a set of the 5 spokes off a later model 98-00 SC400.
http://www.finishlinewheels.com/prodimg/ALY74149U.jpg

ryannel2003
08-10-12, 12:43 PM
Absolutely stunning! Congrats on the car.

Jesda
08-10-12, 12:50 PM
Outstanding!

CadillacLuke24
08-10-12, 01:43 PM
LOL I was gonna say those rims need to go. Nice car! Looks like a sharp little unit!

Night Wolf
08-10-12, 01:52 PM
LOL I was gonna say those rims need to go. Nice car! Looks like a sharp little unit!

There's some things a dude shouldn't say to another dude...

gdwriter
08-10-12, 02:08 PM
Lovely car. It's a nice reminder that Toyota and Lexus didn't always build soulless appliances. Sounds like it's a dream to drive. Enjoy!

orconn
08-10-12, 03:11 PM
Lovely car. It's a nice reminder that Toyota and Lexus didn't always build soulless appliances. Sounds like it's a dream to drive. Enjoy!

Back in the day I never heard the SC's were long on "soul!" Very nice example Aron, I hope it gives you much enjoyment!

CadillacLuke24
08-10-12, 03:42 PM
There's some things a dude shouldn't say to another dude...

:bigroll: OK, that Lexus you just obtained appears to be an exceptional example of a smaller, nimble automobile.

Aztec ETC ECS
08-10-12, 04:46 PM
Nice car. I don't know if it's $9K nice, but still nice.

Night Wolf
08-10-12, 06:21 PM
:bigroll: OK, that Lexus you just obtained appears to be an exceptional example of a smaller, nimble automobile.

Our definitions of small and nimble are quite different, I wouldn't call a 16' long car with a curb weight of 3600lbs small, perhaps not even nimble. Someone correctly referred to it as more of a grand tourer vs sports car. It's only 150lbs lighter and 1.5' shorter than a '95 Sedan DeVille...

It's also 2" longer and 500lbs heavier than my 528e, which is borderline small and nimble - for an executive sedan. The SC is quite a hefty coupe.


Nice car. I don't know if it's $9K nice, but still nice.

Something to be said for a time capsule. If it's a desired car, it's worth the cost. Personally the hardest part for me would be using it as a daily driver, especially with the pearl white paint. I would be paranoid any time it was out of sight - just like my '96 Town Car.

orconn
08-10-12, 06:35 PM
Whoever said SC's were "sportscars?" They were only GT's in the same sense an Eldorado is a GT!

hueterm
08-10-12, 06:55 PM
Something to be said for a time capsule. If it's a desired car, it's worth the cost. Personally the hardest part for me would be using it as a daily driver, especially with the pearl white paint. I would be paranoid any time it was out of sight...

It definitely wouldn't be worth $9000 for long...

Jesda
08-10-12, 07:15 PM
Lovely car. It's a nice reminder that Toyota and Lexus didn't always build soulless appliances. Sounds like it's a dream to drive. Enjoy!

Back when Toyota could do no wrong! 4Runner, LS400, Hilux, MR2, Celica, Supra... all so awesome.

That reminds me, I need to finish a writeup on the Celica I drove in July.




Congrats on the like-new car!

I~LUV~Caddys8792
08-10-12, 08:57 PM
Oddly enough, we took in a '97 SC300 on trade today at work. It's also pearl white with the tan interior, but this one has seen far better days. Still though, I sat in it and was amazed at how supple the leather was, even after all the neglect this one took. Maybe tomorrow I can grab the keys and take it for a spin around the block.

talismandave
08-10-12, 10:04 PM
If you do post up a couple photos as a cautionary tale for Aron9000.:ill:

A little reminder to take good care of his.

77CDV
08-10-12, 11:12 PM
Congrats on the new ride, Aron! It looks like a very nice find. :thumbsup:

drewsdeville
08-10-12, 11:17 PM
Back when Toyota could do no wrong! 4Runner, LS400, Hilux, MR2, Celica, Supra... all so awesome.


The poor Cressida never gets any deserved recognition. I am disappoint.

77CDV
08-10-12, 11:20 PM
The Cressida was awesome! My best friend's mom had one in the early 80s. Very techie for it's time.

Aron9000
08-11-12, 01:39 AM
Our definitions of small and nimble are quite different, I wouldn't call a 16' long car with a curb weight of 3600lbs small, perhaps not even nimble. Someone correctly referred to it as more of a grand tourer vs sports car. It's only 150lbs lighter and 1.5' shorter than a '95 Sedan DeVille...

It's also 2" longer and 500lbs heavier than my 528e, which is borderline small and nimble - for an executive sedan. The SC is quite a hefty coupe.



Something to be said for a time capsule. If it's a desired car, it's worth the cost. Personally the hardest part for me would be using it as a daily driver, especially with the pearl white paint. I would be paranoid any time it was out of sight - just like my '96 Town Car.

I know what you're saying about the paranoid part. Car sits in a garage at work parked in two spaces, everybody there knows me and wouldn't screw around with it. Sits under a carport at home. Plus I live 8 miles from work, its not a very long drive.

I do have my old beat up truck to drive when I know I'm going to a rough neighborhood or somewhere where the parking is screwy or if its raining or the snow is a flying.

IMO its not small or light enough to be a sports car in the sense of an old MG, Alfa, or Miata. But its a damn nice sporty GT car, it handles a heck of a lot better than a N* Eldorado, due to it being RWD vs FWD and not hanging all its weight off the front of the car. I've driven 90's SL and CL Benzes, while nice cars, the SC is a bit more involved to drive and handles better IMO, mainly due to those Benzes weighing 2+ tons and not having modern rack and pinion steering.(Benz stuck by the old school steering box, pitman arm, idler arm, drag link setup)

BTW the SC is the same chassis Toyota used in the mark III Supra, they even sold a wickedly fast twin turbo version in Japan we never got in the USA.

Playdrv4me
08-11-12, 07:13 AM
That motor is durable enough for wicked amounts of horsepower. Many have spent three, four times what that whole car cost just modifying the 2JZ.

ted tcb
08-11-12, 09:32 AM
The Japanese twin turbo version is called the Soarer, and is RHD.
There are about 5 examples currently for sale up here on Kijiji.
I guess they were relatively easy to import to Canada.

I kind of like this one, using the SC430 pie plate wheels, which look hideous on the SC430
Here is the link, which will close when the ad expires.
http://ontario.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-cars-trucks-1992-Lexus-SC-400-SPECIAL-EDITION-ONLY-62-000KM-RARE-JAPA-W0QQAdIdZ403181708

http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n243/tedtcb/KGrHqNlEE3NPYgTDBQIldJ4Gww48_20.jpg

The Soarer replaced the wonderful Lexus glowing needles with a cool digital dash, which was all the rage
in Japan when this car was designed in the late 80's.

http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n243/tedtcb/D7.jpg

Jesda
08-11-12, 12:06 PM
The poor Cressida never gets any deserved recognition. I am disappoint.

My parents almost bought one back in the day. It would have become my first car.

orconn
08-11-12, 01:21 PM
Didn't the "Cressida" just last for two model cycles? I remember the first one here in the US was a rather dowdy little old lookinggirls ... but suposedly was reasonably quick!

Jesda
08-11-12, 01:28 PM
Didn't the "Cressida" just last for two model cycles? I remember the first one here in the US was a rather dowdy little old lookinggirls ... but suposedly was reasonably quick!

It wasn't tremendously quick (though respectable for a family sedan in the early 90s), however it was rear-drive with engines that took kindly to performance enhancements.

Night Wolf
08-11-12, 01:36 PM
It was the Lexus, before Lexus...

drewsdeville
08-11-12, 01:41 PM
Like most of the good stuff, it's life was much longer overseas, where it was more appreciated (in the US, all we wanted in the '90's was a Ford Taurus or Buick Lesabre). It carried on under the "Chaser" name, which was already mentioned in this thread.

orconn
08-11-12, 01:45 PM
It was the Lexus, before Lexus...

I'd have to say that is really wishful thinking ..... Cressidas were mimser wagons for the uninspired! The first "real" Lexus was a M-B inspired Toyota aberration!

Jesda
08-11-12, 01:59 PM
I'd have to say that is really wishful thinking ..... Cressidas were mimser wagons for the uninspired! The first "real" Lexus was a M-B inspired Toyota aberration!

I recall Cressidas having fairly plush interiors.

http://media.photobucket.com/image/1989%20cressida%20interior/streetracer5101/89%2520Cressida%2520For%2520Sale/DSC01887.jpg

The last time I sat in one was the late 80s, so my memory may be inaccurate, but I remember how plush the velour on the seats felt and how high-tech the button-operated climate controls were. It was certainly as nice as any well-optioned Park Avenue or Ninety Eight from that era.

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/411112/1990-toyota-cressida#4111120023

orconn
08-11-12, 02:03 PM
^^^ If memory serves, they were plush in the same sense as a Cutlass Supreme of the same era. Not exactly top drawer, but, I quess, American middle class "luxury" for the period. Certainly nothing like the senior Lexus of a short time later.

gdwriter
08-11-12, 05:41 PM
My high-school girlfriend's Dad, who was a Realtor, had an '83 Cressida, and I'd say orconn's description is apt. The Cressida was more plush than her Mom's Malibu Classic, but a Park Avenue it was not. Nowhere near Lexus LS400 territory, either. The original Lexus LS was in S-Class Benz territory at half the price.

ted tcb
08-11-12, 07:00 PM
What killed the Cressida was the much, much superior fwd Nissan Maxima.
Better motor, better chassis, excellent site lines.
I cross shopped both cars in the 80's, and purchased two 1985 Maximas.
One was the family model GLE, the other was a fun to drive 5spd manual SE.

Jesda
08-11-12, 07:07 PM
My high-school girlfriend's Dad, who was a Realtor, had an '83 Cressida, and I'd say orconn's description is apt. The Cressida was more plush than her Mom's Malibu Classic, but a Park Avenue it was not. Nowhere near Lexus LS400 territory, either. The original Lexus LS was in S-Class Benz territory at half the price.

We appear to have differing opinions on how nice the Park Avenue was. :P

gdwriter
08-11-12, 07:28 PM
We appear to have differing opinions on how nice the Park Avenue was. :PI've always liked Park Avenues because they are so plush. One of my best friends growing up, his Dad was a CPA, and they bought a new Buick Electra every four years, with the previous one going to his Mom. They had a brown '69 and a green '73, then the '69 got traded in on a red '77 Park Avenue. I thought it was the most decadent car I'd ever ridden in. It felt like you sunk in a good couple of inches into the plush red velour.

http://gdwriter.com/pa_1.jpg

http://gdwriter.com/pa_2.jpg

Then his Dad bought a Mercedes 300D in the early 80s. The seats in the Benz were rock hard; I much preferred the Buick, prestige be damned.

Playdrv4me
08-11-12, 07:32 PM
The final Cressidas were fairly nice cars and could even be called pleasing to the eye... it was easy to see the transition from there to the LS400 which essentially replaced the Cressida.

orconn
08-11-12, 07:37 PM
Dave, be glad you were able to experience the decadence of those old Buick Electras, you got the full "Turkish Bordello" treatment without the expense of airfare or jet lag!

Jesda
08-11-12, 07:42 PM
I've always liked Park Avenues because they are so plush. One of my best friends growing up, his Dad was a CPA, and they bought a new Buick Electra every four years, with the previous one going to his Mom. They had a brown '69 and a green '73, then the '69 got traded in on a red '77 Park Avenue. I thought it was the most decadent car I'd ever ridden in. It felt like you sunk in a good couple of inches into the plush red velour.

I liked those, but I'm thinking of the ones that came off the line around the time the Cressida did.

http://carphotos.cardomain.com/ride_images/1/2002/2041/5003520003_large.jpg

cadillac kevin
08-11-12, 08:03 PM
Dave, be glad you were able to experience the decadence of those old Buick Electras, you got the full "Turkish Bordello" treatment without the expense of airfare or jet lag!

Theres a 78 grand prix and a 77 cutlass in a junkyard here that have very similar seat/ door panel treatments to that 77 electra. Talk about over the top plushness...it rivaled any "shaggin' van" of the era in terms of overstuffed overly plush seating.

orconn
08-11-12, 08:17 PM
Actually it wasn't the Cressida that became the Lexus LS400 but rather the Toyota President, which was never marketed in the United States. In the Japanese domestic market it was the President that was the ultimate luxury model. The Cressida evolved out of the "Crown" which was sort of the Olds 98/Buick Electra of Toyotadom.

Playdrv4me
08-11-12, 08:32 PM
Actually it wasn't the Cressida that became the Lexus LS400 but rather the Toyota President, which was never marketed in the United States. In the Japanese domestic market it was the President that was the ultimate luxury model. The Cressida evolved out of the "Crown" which was sort of the Olds 98/Buick Electra of Toyotadom.

The LS400 was the Toyota Celsior in the JDM, not the President. However, I meant specifically in the U.S. market, as it would have hindered the delicate first years of the launch of the LS400 to have another RWD "luxury" (remember it was Toyota's highest end offering here at the time) car stay in the line-up too much longer.

The "President" you are thinking of is Nissan, not Toyota. It formed the basis for the Q45. Or rather, it WAS the Q45.

ted tcb
08-11-12, 09:15 PM
The LS400 was the Toyota Celsior in the JDM, not the President. However, I meant specifically in the U.S. market, as it would have hindered the delicate first years of the launch of the LS400 to have another RWD "luxury" (remember it was Toyota's highest end offering here at the time) car stay in the line-up too much longer.

The "President" you are thinking of is Nissan, not Toyota. It formed the basis for the Q45. Or rather, it WAS the Q45.

I always believed the Nissan Cima was the basis of the Q45.

http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n243/tedtcb/800px-Nissan_Cima_FPY31_001.jpg
http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n243/tedtcb/800px-Nissan_Cima_1991.jpg

Playdrv4me
08-11-12, 09:25 PM
I always believed the Nissan Cima was the basis of the Q45.

http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n243/tedtcb/800px-Nissan_Cima_FPY31_001.jpg
http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n243/tedtcb/800px-Nissan_Cima_1991.jpg

The original Q45... i.e. Gen 1 which debuted in 1990 was a Nissan President. The second generation Q45 with the 4.1L engine in 1997 was based on the Nissan Cima. The President continued to be produced in Japan until 2002. So in essence, our second gen Q45 was a different vehicle. To make matters more confusing, the THIRD gen (bubble) Q45 was again a rebadged President, but at that point the Japanese President was then based on the Cima.

Aron9000
08-11-12, 09:32 PM
The Toyota Cressida wasn't even in the same ballpark as the new for 1990 LS400, both in terms of size, price, or appointments. However I do believe it was a superior and better looking car to the 1990 ES250(a revised FWD Camry), and was priced similarly. The reason the Cressida went away was the intro of the 1992 ES300. Lexus/Toyota decided they could make more $$$$ selling a revised Camry than a car on a unique chassis that didn't share any parts with other Toyotas sold in the US.

Of course when Toyota introduced the Avalon a few years later, they had the same problem with the ES250 vs Cressida. Spec an Avalon up to top trim and its the same price as an ES300, yet has a lot more space inside, same car under the skin.

Playdrv4me
08-11-12, 09:42 PM
The Toyota Cressida wasn't even in the same ballpark as the new for 1990 LS400, both in terms of size, price, or appointments. However I do believe it was a superior and better looking car to the 1990 ES250(a revised FWD Camry), and was priced similarly. The reason the Cressida went away was the intro of the 1992 ES300. Lexus/Toyota decided they could make more $$$$ selling a revised Camry than a car on a unique chassis that didn't share any parts with other Toyotas sold in the US.

Of course when Toyota introduced the Avalon a few years later, they had the same problem with the ES250 vs Cressida. Spec an Avalon up to top trim and its the same price as an ES300, yet has a lot more space inside, same car under the skin.

The Avalon interior was of significantly lesser quality than the ES but Toyota still sold tons of them. I don't actually believe that many people cross shopped the Avalon and ES, nor do I believe they really do today. And the fact that both of them co-exist just fine also leads me to believe that the ES was not the factor that lead to the Cressida's demise. Being viewed as the "largest, most luxurious" RWD vehicle in Toyota's line-up, caused confusion when an LS400 wasn't THAT much more than a fully spec'ed Cressida (about 25 vs 35) and didn't look a whole hell of a lot different. It would be safer to say that the Cressida went away because of Lexus as a whole, than to say it had anything specifically to do with the ES. Hell, you could load up a Camry XLE at the time nearly to the level of the ES as there were extremely minimal differences, but they obviously didn't discontinue the Camry. The Cressida was a vehicle they weren't sure they could keep around with the introduction of Lexus, nor did they want the Cressida to affect Lexus' early development in the US market. The Avalon demonstrated later on that there were plenty of buyers for it (though again, the Avalon's quality in comparison, not reliability mind you, but just the materials quality, was on a level less than the Cressida at its time).

From the Cressida Wiki article: "The Cressida also played a part in the design of the first Lexus models, most closely resembling the LS 400. However, some of the shared concepts and similarity between the Cressida and early Lexus models in turn led to the decision to eventually discontinue the Cressida in most markets, as it would overlap with vehicles sold under the Lexus marque."

It's also interesting to note that the Cressida shared a lot of power-train and chassis components with the MkIII Supra, just as the SC does with the MkIV Supra. I didn't know that.

orconn
08-11-12, 11:14 PM
The LS400 was the Toyota Celsior in the JDM, not the President. However, I meant specifically in the U.S. market, as it would have hindered the delicate first years of the launch of the LS400 to have another RWD "luxury" (remember it was Toyota's highest end offering here at the time) car stay in the line-up too much longer.

The "President" you are thinking of is Nissan, not Toyota. It formed the basis for the Q45. Or rather, it WAS the Q45.

Your are quite right, I got the Nissan "President" mixed up with the Toyota "Century."

I~LUV~Caddys8792
08-11-12, 11:22 PM
We took in a last gen Cressida at work a few months back. Handsome sedan. Very much similar looking to an early LS400.

Aron9000
08-12-12, 01:07 AM
The Avalon interior was of significantly lesser quality than the ES but Toyota still sold tons of them. I don't actually believe that many people cross shopped the Avalon and ES, nor do I believe they really do today. And the fact that both of them co-exist just fine also leads me to believe that the ES was not the factor that lead to the Cressida's demise. Being viewed as the "largest, most luxurious" RWD vehicle in Toyota's line-up, caused confusion when an LS400 wasn't THAT much more than a fully spec'ed Cressida (about 25 vs 35) and didn't look a whole hell of a lot different. It would be safer to say that the Cressida went away because of Lexus as a whole, than to say it had anything specifically to do with the ES. Hell, you could load up a Camry XLE at the time nearly to the level of the ES as there were extremely minimal differences, but they obviously didn't discontinue the Camry. The Cressida was a vehicle they weren't sure they could keep around with the introduction of Lexus, nor did they want the Cressida to affect Lexus' early development in the US market. The Avalon demonstrated later on that there were plenty of buyers for it (though again, the Avalon's quality in comparison, not reliability mind you, but just the materials quality, was on a level less than the Cressida at its time).

From the Cressida Wiki article: "The Cressida also played a part in the design of the first Lexus models, most closely resembling the LS 400. However, some of the shared concepts and similarity between the Cressida and early Lexus models in turn led to the decision to eventually discontinue the Cressida in most markets, as it would overlap with vehicles sold under the Lexus marque."

It's also interesting to note that the Cressida shared a lot of power-train and chassis components with the MkIII Supra, just as the SC does with the MkIV Supra. I didn't know that.


I'm going to have to totally disagree with you about this. 25k vs 35k in 1990 dollars was a huge difference. IMO the Cressida was a better car than the ES250 and was the same price.

As far as people not "cross shopping" the Avalon and ES300, well my parents shopped both back in 2000. My dad being a cheap bastard we ended up in a base model Avalon with cloth seats for about 7k less than a new ES300 or a fully speced out Avalon XLS. I will agree the interior isn't as nice, but other than the real burl walnut wood trim, leather seats, and "lexus" gauges, the quality is comparable on the inside to an ES300. Other than it lacking leather, sunroof, stability/traction control, and an automatic climate control, its just as well equipped as an ES300, and has a TON more room. Really the Avalon offered A LOT more room than the ES300, much bigger trunk, limo like room in the back seat, tons of room in the front. Hell it has more interior space than my 91 or 95 full size Caddys, trunk isn't as big though. IMO the 2000-04 Avalon was the better car and a better value than the ES300. My opinon changes on the 2005+ Avalons because they introduced that cheezy looking silver plastic console that looks like a $50 K-mart boom box, plus they sloped the rear part of the roof cutting into the back seat space.

brandondeleo
08-12-12, 07:33 AM
My opinion changes on the 2005+ Avalons because they introduced that cheezy looking silver plastic console that looks like a $50 K-mart boom box, plus they sloped the rear part of the roof cutting into the back seat space.
I'm 6'3" and had no issue with headroom in the 3rd gen Avalon. I agree with you on the silver plastic look, though. I prefer the older wood stack, but I don't really have a problem with the silver.

Playdrv4me
08-12-12, 07:56 AM
I will agree the interior isn't as nice, but other than the real burl walnut wood trim, leather seats, and "lexus" gauges, the quality is comparable on the inside to an ES300. Other than it lacking leather, sunroof, stability/traction control, and an automatic climate control, its just as well equipped as an ES300

That's a lot of stuff.

Anyhow, I think my point was more regarding that the Cressida didn't reach its end specifically due to the ES but rather Lexus as a whole, and that with its LS400 doppelgänger design, RWD and high standard of interior quality the LS400/Cressida was more of a conflict than the ES/Cressida. That wiki article seems to concur with that.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
08-12-12, 08:37 AM
I agree, it's hard to have Toyota's flagship sedan be RWD when they have a separate luxury brand to cater to that market. Before Lexus existed, it made great sense, but once Lexus started up, they killed the Cressida and replaced it with the FWD Avalon, a much more logical bookend to Toyota's line and much closer in terms of design, layout and size to the ES300.

I will say though, the name Cressida was a very cool one, sounded very upmarket and classy. The Cressida & 929 were in their own class and since then, their replacements have gone FWD and in Mazda's case, have been eliminated all together.

But....when it comes to over the top comfy interiors in '80s era Japanese sedans, you can't top the mid '80s Maxima.
https://invimg2.autofunds.com/InventoryImages/2009/07/16/468_77223_2952833_12293216292009.jpg
http://usa-usedcars.com/upload/4000/max-20120128130157938.jpg

http://www.adclassix.com/images/84nissanmaxima.jpg

96Fleetwood
08-12-12, 10:30 AM
Congrats!!

Night Wolf
08-12-12, 11:49 AM
Since when did FWD/RWD in this segment matter?

Stingroo
08-12-12, 11:52 AM
Not this again...

hueterm
08-12-12, 12:01 PM
96027

Threadjack, but #FWDwhocares =-O

I~LUV~Caddys8792
08-12-12, 12:17 PM
There were so many cool luxury coupes available in the '90s, in order of my favorites:

1) Mercedes Benz S Class/ CL Class
2) Cadillac Eldorado ETC
3) Lincoln Mark VIII
4) Lexus SC
5) BMW 8 Series
6) Buick Riviera
7) Acura Legend

brandondeleo
08-12-12, 12:21 PM
There were so many cool luxury coupes available in the '90s, in order of my favorites:

1) Mercedes Benz S Class/ CL Class
2) Cadillac Eldorado ETC
3) Lincoln Mark VIII
4) Lexus SC
5) BMW 8 Series
6) Buick Riviera
7) Acura Legend
I agree with you in the same order. :lol:

hueterm
08-12-12, 12:28 PM
There were so many cool luxury coupes available in the '90s, in order of my favorites:

1) Mercedes Benz S Class/ CL Class
2) Cadillac Eldorado ETC
3) Lincoln Mark VIII
4) Lexus SC
5) BMW 8 Series
6) Buick Riviera
7) Acura Legend

1. CL
2. 8
3. Tie: Riv/Legend/MkVIII
4. ETC
5. SC

I~LUV~Caddys8792
08-12-12, 12:36 PM
Coupes need to make a return. We've lost so many over the last 15 years.. Other than the ones mentioned:

Nissan 240SX
Honda Prelude
Mitsubishi Eclipse/Talon
Pontiac Trans Am
Toyota Celica
Toyota Supra
Ford Probe/Mazda MX-6
Dodge Avenger
Acura RSX


And many more...

Jesda
08-12-12, 12:52 PM
The new Nissan Z is going to be lighter with a turbo 4, possibly to go up against the Subaru BRZ. Some think of it as the return of the 240SX.

I miss the RSX/Integra.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
08-12-12, 01:23 PM
I hope they at least offer a 6 in the new Z. Having a Z without a 6 would be like having a FWD BMW.

Playdrv4me
08-12-12, 02:49 PM
I hope they at least offer a 6 in the new Z. Having a Z without a 6 would be like having a FWD BMW.

http://www.bmwblog.com/wp-content/uploads/390497_4642_big_2013-bmw-serie-1-gt-2-655x368.jpg

:(

Playdrv4me
08-12-12, 02:52 PM
On a side note, I do think the Toyo-baru twins (of all brands... or perhaps it's fitting?) are such a shot in the arm to so many different markets... The economical pocket rocket market... the Toyota market... the Subaru market and most of all, the coupe market. It's the first car I'd have no problem buying new in probably 15 years.

CadillacLuke24
08-12-12, 03:14 PM
Coupes need to make a return. We've lost so many over the last 15 years.. Other than the ones mentioned:

Nissan 240SX
Honda Prelude
Mitsubishi Eclipse/Talon
Pontiac Trans Am
Toyota Celica
Toyota Supra
Ford Probe/Mazda MX-6
Dodge Avenger
Acura RSX


And many more...

Such as the Chevrolet Monte Carlo.

For any of you RWD trolls, come to Wyoming in February :lildevil:

Stingroo
08-12-12, 03:23 PM
Luke - your weather is bad and you should feel bad!

http://slurmed.com/fanart/sarah/012_zoidberg-futurama.png

truckinman
08-13-12, 04:56 AM
Very good looking car! I do really like Lexus a lot. And it amazes me how when you get into an older one like yours that's been well cared for, if you didn't know any better, you'd think it was brand new bc as a 92, it's very modern even by today's standard in my opinion. Well besides the cassette deck and foot long shifter. Lol. But they've got a very modern style dash with gauges WAY ahead of their time. Up until I bought my STS, I had that 98 ES300 and same story. It was very well kept inside and the wood still shined like new, seats were some of the most comfy ive ever sat in. In fact my fiancé says the seats in that Lexus were more comfy than in my 05 STS. Idk about that IMO but to her they were. We drove the lex the 12 hrs to Charleston SC for a cruise and she never felt uncomfortable. But we've gone one several 6-10 hr trips in my caddy and she gets antsy in that car. Lexus really built some quality cars. Of course I liked my GS400 more than the ES tho. Lol. Very fast that car was. But I'd love to find an SC like yours. Great cars! But my next vehicle purchase will most likely be a jeep wrangler. Lol. Not getting rid of the caddy for one, it'll just be in addition. But I REALLY miss my wranglers. Lol.

Again great looking car man! That will give you enjoyment for another 250k miles easy.