: Bose system, amp, front speakers



Scott2012
07-27-12, 09:46 PM
Anyone have a diagram of the bose system?
Do the tweeters run in series or parallel with the front door speakers (w pass covers) or does the Bose amp run independent active channels?
Id like to install a pair of 6.5 components, replacing the the tweeters and door speakers and run it off the Bose amp. And I'd like to use the crossovers that come with the components. Any suggestions? ( I heard the Bose door speakers are crossed over and not full range).
Thanks!

FuzzyLogic
07-27-12, 09:58 PM
I think Darkman has those diagrams.

Why don't you just replace the door speakers and run a line-out converter off the subwoofer output into a mono amplifier, and then into a nicer subwoofer? I just did that with excellent results. Didn't touch the tweeters.

Here's the package that I selected after 15 hours of research. I think it's very cost-effective. Throw away everything from the Polk Audio kit except the mains. The subwoofer is ridiculous. Definitely not a one-note bass machine. You'll barely be able to fit it in the original hole--even after you go around the inner lip with a nibbler. I'm still trying to tune it correctly and lock down the vibration caused by the XM amplifier and assorted plastic parts in the rear deck. Might want to pick up some sound absorbent foam (e.g. Luxury Liner Pro) to pack in various places, including the passenger side rear seatbelt mechanism.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000P0R6LQ/ref=wms_ohs_product
http://www.amazon.com/Infinity-Reference-5032cf-Performance-Loudspeaker/dp/B002BZE36E
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0028ARP1W/ref=olp_product_details?ie=UTF8&me=&seller=
http://www.amazon.com/R1100M-Monoblock-Amplifier-Subwoofer-Control/dp/B004S4XNEO/ref=pd_cp_e_1
http://www.amazon.com/KIT-2-Complete-Gauge-Amplifier-Installation/dp/B000FKP7TY/ref=pd_bxgy_e_img_b
http://www.amazon.com/Absolute-MM100-Pair-Couplers-Connector/dp/B0031AW2UM/
http://davidnavone.com/zencart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=1

Scott2012
07-28-12, 12:24 AM
I think Darkman has those diagrams.

Why don't you just replace the door speakers and run a line-out converter off the subwoofer output into a mono amplifier, and then into a nicer subwoofer? I just did that with excellent results. Didn't touch the tweeters.

Here's the package that I selected after 15 hours of research. I think it's very cost-effective. Throw away everything from the Polk Audio kit except the mains. The subwoofer is ridiculous. Definitely not a one-note bass machine. You'll barely be able to fit it in the original hole--even after you go around the inner lip with a nibbler. I'm still trying to tune it correctly and lock down the vibration caused by the XM amplifier and assorted plastic parts in the rear deck. Might want to pick up some sound absorbent foam (e.g. Luxury Liner Pro) to pack in various places, including the passenger side rear seatbelt mechanism.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000P0R6LQ/ref=wms_ohs_product
http://www.amazon.com/Infinity-Reference-5032cf-Performance-Loudspeaker/dp/B002BZE36E
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0028ARP1W/ref=olp_product_details?ie=UTF8&me=&seller=
http://www.amazon.com/R1100M-Monoblock-Amplifier-Subwoofer-Control/dp/B004S4XNEO/ref=pd_cp_e_1
http://www.amazon.com/KIT-2-Complete-Gauge-Amplifier-Installation/dp/B000FKP7TY/ref=pd_bxgy_e_img_b
http://www.amazon.com/Absolute-MM100-Pair-Couplers-Connector/dp/B0031AW2UM/
http://davidnavone.com/zencart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=1

Well, I did think about that too. I'm a little old school and like the components from back in the day... Soundstream, Boston pro, eclipse, etc. I know the Bose amp, is weak and will hardly these components. But, if the Bose amp has full range output, I'd like to I've it a whirl, and if it isn't powerful enough, then I'll add a line output converter and an amp.
I do totally agree with you, the sub blows. When I change that, I'll use an external amp, but I have to decide if I want to risk a free air sub to save space, or go with a box.

FuzzyLogic
07-28-12, 07:29 AM
For what it's worth, that Infinity subwoofer is effing ridiculous compared to the stock one. Nice and clean too across the frequency response range, assuming that you can lock down the vibration from other components sitting on the deck.

Scott2012
07-28-12, 07:58 AM
For what it's worth, that Infinity subwoofer is effing ridiculous compared to the stock one. Nice and clean too across the frequency response range, assuming that you can lock down the vibration from other components sitting on the deck.

That shouldn't be a problem. Is this a free air sub? Or what type of enclosure did you use?
Thanks!

FuzzyLogic
07-28-12, 08:54 AM
That shouldn't be a problem. Is this a free air sub? Or what type of enclosure did you use?
Thanks!

Free air. Fits in the stock location, like so (not my picture, but very similar):

http://ls1tech.com/forums/attachments/cadillac-cts-v/304893d1310333020-aftermarket-subwoofer-amp-recommendations-please-amps-speaker.jpg

Scott2012
07-28-12, 12:33 PM
How is the response of the woofer? The specs call for a sealed or ported enclosure. Doesn't mean it doesn't sound great, I've always been afraid of free air applications because they can sound great, or horrible.
For the price I might give it a whirl :)

FuzzyLogic
07-28-12, 12:57 PM
How is the response of the woofer? The specs call for a sealed or ported enclosure. Doesn't mean it doesn't sound great, I've always been afraid of free air applications because they can sound great, or horrible.
For the price I might give it a whirl :)

Sounds pretty good. I wondered the same thing at the time and figured I'd give it a try anyway. I'm definitely not hurting for volume, either. That BOSS amplifier is set to about 25% volume (and the +18 dB bass boost on the amp is disabled) with the Bose head unit cranked and both 4 ohm input connected in parallel (so the amp sees 2 ohms). Any higher and the subwoofer starts dominating the soundstage.

Keep in mind that I'm serious about barely being able to fit this subwoofer in there. You'll have to temporarily move aside the plastic fixture in the back deck that various electronics are mounted to and slightly increase the diameter of the hole with a nibbler or some other power tool. Even then, you'll be squeezing this thing down there and it'll just barely make it. Once it's there, you'll find that it doesn't mount the same way as the old subwoofer. I sunk three screws up into the curved area of the subwoofer hole's lip at a 45 degree angle and into the foundation legs of the subwoofer. That locked it down very nicely. Otherwise, the sub probably would've launched itself out of the hole and through the rear window. ;)

Scott2012
07-28-12, 02:13 PM
Great info, thanks a ton!
I'm going to get a mono amp and line out converter. I also have a 10" mb quart subwoofer I may try. If it fits and sounds ok, I'll let you know. If its a flop, I'll get the infinity.

Did you use dynamat or rubberized spray foam for the rear deck?

FuzzyLogic
07-28-12, 03:38 PM
Great info, thanks a ton!
I'm going to get a mono amp and line out converter. I also have a 10" mb quart subwoofer I may try. If it fits and sounds ok, I'll let you know. If its a flop, I'll get the infinity.

Did you use dynamat or rubberized spray foam for the rear deck?

Neither. I applied a small damper layer (Damplifier Pro) in places and an absorber (Luxury Liner Pro) in others. Targets include the XM unit, the side seatbelt tensioners, and basically everything attached to that big piece of black plastic back there. If you have a PA15-VETTE or other iPhone/Android platform interface, you might want to try downloading a frequency generator application that'll let you output a steady tone at any frequency you choose to isolate noise sources.

Off the top of my head, you'll want to pack a thick absorber between the passenger side seat belt tensioner and the A-pillar, and apply a combination of damper and absorber both beneath and in-between the XM Radio mounting plate and the body of the unit itself. Otherwise it rattles at either 45 or 55 Hz (can't remember right now).

To derive power and ground, I chose the lines running to the Bose amplifier--trunk, driver's side rear. There's a nice, hard ground there and you'll find a ~14 gauge red wire in the big white multi-pin connector attached to the amplifier. If you need more power than that, I think that some people have utilized the ~12 gauge wires running between the rear fuse boxes (in front of the rear seats), or run 8 gauge wire all the way to the battery.

Edit: For what it's worth, here's the diagram you were asking for:

http://www.cadillacfaq.com/faq/answers/pdf/bose.pdf

Scott2012
07-30-12, 03:59 PM
Looking at this, it appears the tweeters are on separate channels from the mids in the doors. If I were going to use external amps for full range front speakers, where would I tap the line out converter into?

etcts-v
07-31-12, 10:22 PM
If you swap out the speakers and keep the stock amp keep in mind the Bose runs 8 ohms. Best option is a signal processor like JL Audios cleansweep if you're not replacing everything IMO.

I tore everything out :)

etcts-v
07-31-12, 10:22 PM
I have the diagrams I can post up tonight if you still need them.

Scott2012
08-01-12, 12:27 AM
I have the diagrams I can post up tonight if you still need them.

Yes, please post

So if the Bose amp runs at 8 ohms, and the door speakers are 1 ohm, then the tweeters must be run in parallel withe door speakers with passive crossovers. If that's the case, hen I cold just use a line out converter, add an amp, and run a real pair of components?

etcts-v
08-01-12, 04:57 AM
Here are the two diagrams, also here is a link to a share I have for the entire factory service manual and GM service manual software: https://docs.google.com/folder/d/0ByiW0qe3Fbx4UTVsR3ROWmtwZ0E/edit

You know I think I'm wrong actually on the 8ohms, I think someone told me that and it got in my head but I would do a search first, been a few years since I pulled mine! haha



http://i949.photobucket.com/albums/ad335/ellioth3771/stereowiring1-001.jpg

http://i949.photobucket.com/albums/ad335/ellioth3771/stereowiring2-001.jpg

GDPossehl
08-01-12, 11:58 AM
Bose speakers individually run at a much lower impedance than traditional speakers. Meaning, when you simply plug in a normal speaker to the wires where a Bose once existed it will only be drawing a fraction of the power the Bose did--which wasn't much in the first place.

The best thing to do is find an amp with high level inputs (the kind that you can plug speakers wires into instead of RCA's), tap into the speaker wires coming out of the stock amp in the trunk, and run those lines to the new amp and run your own speaker wires to new speakers throughout the car.

Edit: The term 'best' may be used loosely. That is the best, most cost effective method I would use. Otherwise you can buy a bunch of expensive equipment like the JL Cleansweep and consider that the 'best'.

FuzzyLogic
08-01-12, 01:02 PM
Or, if you care about sound quality, you can get a quality LOC.

Scott2012
08-01-12, 07:30 PM
I would use an loc vs tapping right into an amp. Setting the gains is important for sq

So based on all his, I should run a 4 channel amp, 2 chan for doors, 2 channel for tweets since they are crossed over and separated by the base amp.

Too bad, I'd prefer a full range line output :(

GDPossehl
08-01-12, 07:45 PM
I would use an loc vs tapping right into an amp. Setting the gains is important for sq


As far as I know that's still possible with high level input amps. They just have an LOC built in.

GDPossehl
08-01-12, 07:46 PM
Damn the double post!

carlson_mn
08-10-12, 08:56 AM
I would just run a 2 channel amp and run a pair of 2ohm components off it such as the Infinity Kappas. Going price on those was about $130 on ebay 3 years ago and they're damn impressive. They're in my other car and I am missing them quite a bit. 100w rms a side is good. Obviously they have their own crossover. You'd have to study a better resolution copy of that wiring diagram to find out where to tap into the full signal front right and left wires. I'd probably leave the rear sound stage as is. No need for a 4 channel amp. Good luck.

sssnake
08-10-12, 02:54 PM
Lots of good suggestions in this thread!

A couple of things to consider no matter what aftermarket devices u choose.

The Xover between the mids and sub is 100hz. This is pretty high for most folks and really puts a load in the sub. But it does help on the midranges because mounting depth in the doors is pretty limited.

The rear output of the amp gives you 100hz and up so you can put an LOC on the rears and get 100hz and up.

On the clean sweep option... I know several owners have used it with no issues but I couldn't get the gains tweaked consistently during setup. I suspected that i may have a bad cleansweep so i bought another to make sure it was not the issue And both units demonstrated the same behavior.

If you are considering adding the Jlsignal summing interface with the clean sweep don't bother. The issues with gain I mentioned are further complicated when adding the SSI.

Another route you don't want to go is the JBL MS8. It un-eqs the amp output and then re-eqs them based upon mic measurements. However because our cars have a ton of midbass gain the MS8 runs out of processing power before it gets the signal fully leveled.

IMO - to get good sound with a decent feature set (Bluetooth and IPod integration) you need to go to an aftermarket head unit. The problem then becomes losing the DIC.

To make beneficial mods to the current audio system and stay under $500 I would just add a good sub with external amp.

If you want the next level of performance you are going to spend quite a bit more. Think $2000+

I know these comments sound pessimistic but I have been there and done that with my V. Also, I am an electrical engineer that installed stereos professionally in college and I am involved in sound quality competitions with this car. I've done aftermarket systems in every car I have ever owned and even considering all of the systems I installed while working in a shop this one has been the biggest PIA.

Scott2012
08-10-12, 06:12 PM
Thanks for the insight here. Likely, I'm going to start with the sub and amp and then replace the rear speakers and door speakers with 4 ohm speakers and go from there

xbladr
08-10-12, 11:51 PM
sssnake if you were to just upgrade the sub and amp what would be the route you would take? I think that is my plan as I just would like a little more low end bump. I would ideally like to pull the stock one out and use the stock location as well. what equipment amp etc would you suggest?

sssnake
08-13-12, 05:20 PM
The stocker is an 8" if I remember correctly and very low profile. If you are not worried about the woofer sticking down into the trunk the just about any 8" will work with a little trimming.

My suggestion would be to pick up the sub amp output (it is connected to the stock sub) and a good quality sub amp with speaker level inputs or just use a line output converter. There are a ton of good sub amps out there but I am partial to the JL Audio HD series and the Alpine PDX (second generation). But really either of those amps is likely too strong for a single 8".

If you stay with an 8" I would go for the Alpine SWR-823D but IMO a single 12" infinite baffle with a small mounting baffle below and firing through the stock opening is a better solution. Two layers of 3/4" MDF with the woofer bottom mounted should give you enough clearance and will help to strengthen the rear deck and eliminate/reduce rattles. Be careful though because you have electronics top mounted on the rear deck. That would likely give you a ton of bass and support any future mods you might make to the fronts.

GDPossehl
08-13-12, 05:27 PM
I think the stock sub is somewhere between 8-10". It's definitely larger than on 8" and a 10 seems to fit the rear opening nicely. A 12" would likely require some cutting. A simple MDF baffle in place of the plastic baffle used for the Bose sub should support a 10" and not hang down into the trunk too low. Some dampening of the rest of the necessary items on the rear deck will help with rattles. Don't put it all back together until you've thoroughly tested for rattles with all types of music.

Also note that an open-air/IB sub can easily over-exert itself and cause distortion and even damage. So if you have a girlfriend who gets excited when "her song" comes on and slams the volume up, be sure to keep your pimp hand strong.

FuzzyLogic
08-13-12, 06:12 PM
The stock sub measures 10" in diameter.

xbladr
08-15-12, 02:24 PM
Hmmm ok so it looks like maybe i should get a 10" open air sub.

GDPossehl
08-15-12, 02:32 PM
That would be simplest. I'm a little unsatisfied with my open-air setup. I'm thinking of making some sort of enclosure to fit around the base of the sub and fix to the underside of the rear deck. I'm wondering if liquid nails would do the trick.

FoD
08-15-12, 03:58 PM
Anyone tried the Alpine Type-R Shallow sub? Thinking of using the one outta my truck since it can be run open-air, and would fit.

xbladr
08-16-12, 12:47 AM
FoD if you do it let me know how it goes

sssnake
08-16-12, 12:39 PM
I've not used the type r shallow but I have seen good reviews. I suggest this site for more info. Www. Diymobileaudio.com

sssnake
08-16-12, 12:52 PM
I think the stock sub is somewhere between 8-10". It's definitely larger than on 8" and a 10 seems to fit the rear opening nicely. A 12" would likely require some cutting. A simple MDF baffle in place of the plastic baffle used for the Bose sub should support a 10" and not hang down into the trunk too low. Some dampening of the rest of the necessary items on the rear deck will help with rattles. Don't put it all back together until you've thoroughly tested for rattles with all types of music.

Also note that an open-air/IB sub can easily over-exert itself and cause distortion and even damage. So if you have a girlfriend who gets excited when "her song" comes on and slams the volume up, be sure to keep your pimp hand strong.

Good advice.

If you use a low profile sub go as large as possible on the sub diameter as most tend to be excursion limited. The Alpines and JL Audios are some of the most capable in terms of excursion so they are less of a concern A 12" or even 15" should work fine firing through the stock opening and won't exhibit any bandpass behavior (no limiting of upper freqs from the mounting).

Pho_phizzat
08-23-12, 07:05 PM
I need to tighten up the screws for my bose sub it rattles something fierce