: What would you change about the "new" Cadillacs that have just hit the market?



orconn
07-22-12, 04:34 PM
I am not a fan of the "gee whiz" accessory control screens that have become ubiquitous in aspiring luxury class automobiles on the market today. I am really getting tired of car companies competing with each other to see who can come up with the rinky dink ways to adjust the functions of accessories that only occasionally need adjustment or only need to set once in a great while. All in all much ado about nothing.

However, the slavish adherence to the cocooning and topping of rear seat passengers by copying the "everyone's doing it" semi fast back "Coupe de Merde" four door styling that now has become standard across the passenger car spectrum from cheap econoboxes to loftily priced executive models. I abhor the top of the shoulder high beltine that gives driver and front seat passenger the feeling of riding in a an armored personnel carrier, but discomfort and claustrophobia inducing slant of the roof over the rear compartment gives on the feeling more of a leather lined padded cell than a luxurious back seat.

There are other complaints, but these are what bother me the most, what about you?

Cadillac Kid03
07-22-12, 04:41 PM
Pretty much everything bothers me with the new Cadillac's only ones i truly like are the DTS and the CTS wagon. There starting to all look the same and have useless stuff in them. Have we really gotten that bad at driving where we need the car to help us? New Cadillac's are trying to hard to look like euro cars. Just my 2 cents

SDCaddyLacky
07-22-12, 05:43 PM
Cadillac doesn't have an imposing vehicle, and hasn't had one honestly since the 96 fleetwood which would be the first thing I would change about their lineup, an added biggie Caddy right now!. Foreign competition have forced the US automakers to improve their quality of vehicles which was a great thing, because if they didn't, we still would have a series of unreliable GM and Ford cars today.

The obvious downside of there influence has made American cars look so very bland and generic. Sure Cadillac's have their own unique "Art and Science" sort of sculpture look right at the moment, but it's not enough. The egg shaped era of cars has completely destroyed the sense of great styling.


Modern design is simply too bland and is less impressive compared to the designs of years ago. This doesn't just apply to cars, but also the way buildings are designed. Too much glass paneling, with not enough arching or distinct shapes, and also not enough heavy stone or brick use like old buildings were constructed with. Modern design is sleek, but the loss of detail hurts to excite the eye.

Besides those problems, I would add more metal on the interiors of it's cars. I miss the days of metal seat belt buckles, something you feel and touch every time you get ready to drive off. This very minor small touch adds a step in increased quality. Even having some headliner option would be great. Not just the use of suede, but unique stitching, and the use of vinyl or leather like the older Cadillac's used, would also add another touch of luxury.

Bigger wider seats, with softer leather, chrome trim around the brake and gas pedal would be cool. An overall increase in detail in interiors on the door panels and seats.. Thicker plusher carpeting, and more substantial feel in weight when opening doors, this is definitely an important aspect of larger luxury cars, the heavy feeling of a door gives passengers a sense of safety and security. My 94 Fleetwood front doors are really heavy and close with a tank like sound,which I really like, all the new Cadillac's in comparison feel thin and cheap.

Cadillac Kid03
07-22-12, 05:57 PM
They all look the same now i mean look.... Other then the middle one :histeric:

SDCaddyLacky
07-22-12, 06:05 PM
They are all too bulbous lol

Submariner409
07-22-12, 07:16 PM
We need a good ol' $3500 (brand new, tax & title) hot rod Cadillac or Chevelle.

Oh, this is 2012.............. I guess we keep up with the Japanese, Germans, and Koreans.

"But Mommy !!! I want the newest Blackberry and all apps.... and I want a choke knob and ammeter on my Flapfish60Mk3Mod4XRTLBi."

ryannel2003
07-22-12, 07:21 PM
Blackberry? They still make those? Hahaha jk

But really, Cadillac needs a RWD, V8 flagship like yesterday. XTS is ok but certainly won't be competing with any BMW's or Mercedes'. It will attract those who want a DTS replacement with more technology, or even those moving up from a LaCrosse type car who want more hi-tech stuff. So if the XTS was RWD with a high output V6 or V8, then I think it would be fine.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
07-22-12, 07:23 PM
We need something to compete with the 7 Series, S Class, A8, etc. I know this is a long & company defining process, but I can't wait until they roll something out.

BIGREECE
07-22-12, 09:35 PM
BIGGER MORE STANDARD RWD BEASTS WOULD BE A DREAM COME TRUE, BUT IT WILL NOT HAPPEN UNTIL! END OF STORY, SAD BUT TRUE KIDS:helpless:

77CDV
07-22-12, 10:29 PM
Three words: longer, lower, wider. Greenhouses that don't feel like machine gun bunkers. RWD V8 on the top-line model, at least as an option. A V12 LWB top-line variant wouldn't go amiss, either. A coupe variant would also be welcome.

The really unfortunate thing about the XTS is that it's about 9/10ths the car it needs to be. Which has been GM's problem for most of the past 30 years.

orconn
07-22-12, 10:59 PM
I agree, Craig, as nice as the fourth and fifth generation Sevilles were they still missed the mark by penny ante compromises in quality of materials and quality of assembly. An example, the molded in stitching on the door panels .... to the discerning eye it cheapened the whole interior and as a result the whole car!

Jeeze guys, if Americans can't be found to do quality work on the interior components get them made in China and stick them in over here!

MrHolland
07-23-12, 12:33 AM
I agree!!! Big heavy rear wheel drive with giant seats and huge Cadillac tail lamps. Simple nav system and a truly great audio system with a plush leather interior that has more sound deadener/insulation than any other car on the road. Unfortunately, the products of today are defined by a level of technology instead of quality. Go BACK TOWARD YOUR ROOTS, CADILLAC!!!!

That being said, if they made that change their primary consumer would be a very limited customer base which they are currently trying to move away from. Like the old adage goes, "If it aint broke, dont fix it." Until then, Ill keep driving my Fleetwood!!!

Aron9000
07-23-12, 01:25 AM
We need a big v8, RWD flagship. Not some overpriced, v6, FWD, Lexus ES350 wannabee. You watch, I bet the new XTS flops. Actually I hope it flops so hard that Cadillac never builds such a lame, badge engineered car again.

We also need something to sell in that 50-70k range that would compete with the E-class and 5 series, something to sell below that big flagship.

CadillacLuke24
07-23-12, 01:53 AM
:stirpot: Here we go again.

What would be ideal is a Cadillac that matches old with new. I personally think the Escalade and the CTS-V do that task rather well. Big, V8 preferably, RWD, can haul some stuff, and towing isn't a crime either. Give them good gas mileage too. I'd venture to guess that older Cadillacs have low resale due to (other than HGs) they are perceived as gas hogs.

vincentm
07-23-12, 02:02 AM
The Ciel is the only thing that will put Cadillac back on top of lexus, bmw, and mercedes..if they dont go forward with it, we can kiss cadillac good bye

MrHolland
07-23-12, 02:21 AM
^^^I tend to agree with your first sentence, or theres at least a chance of Cadillac coming out on top with the Ciel^^^

ben.gators
07-23-12, 04:04 AM
1- Make it RWD
2- Put a V-8 in it and have an optional supercharged V-8 as well.
3- Stretch it.
4- Reduce the "chunkiness" of the car.

thebigjimsho
07-29-12, 02:12 AM
Good to see all you dinosaur-think people congregating here and leaving the rest of us who buy real cars alone...

Jesda
07-29-12, 03:06 AM
Good to see all you dinosaur-think people congregating here and leaving the rest of us who buy real cars alone...

Mercedes, Jaguar, and BMW build these so-called RWD V8 "dinosaurs" and sell them globally.

Cadillac will finally be doing the same as well.

Jesda
07-29-12, 03:10 AM
We need a big v8, RWD flagship. Not some overpriced, v6, FWD, Lexus ES350 wannabee. You watch, I bet the new XTS flops. Actually I hope it flops so hard that Cadillac never builds such a lame, badge engineered car again.

The XTS badge might not stick around beyond a single product cycle not because of poor sales, but because it's a stop-gap car that fills a void. For anyone who wants a large new American car, and there's a lot of people who do, they have no other choice.

It was built on an existing platform because it wasn't intended to hang around for very long. I suspect it may get a MCE or mild refresh in 2-3 years that also includes additional engine options.

I'm thinking the new and enlarged CTS might quietly take its place.

thebigjimsho
07-29-12, 03:10 AM
Mercedes, Jaguar, and BMW build these so-called RWD V8 "dinosaurs" and sell them globally.

Cadillac will finally be doing the same as well.But many people here think you can fart pixies and a car will appear in a year for almost no money. Cadillac has had to do things in stages. And looking at the progression of offerings, doing quite well. The XTS is not a flagship and will do just fine until the Omega arrives.

Jesda
07-29-12, 03:21 AM
But many people here think you can fart pixies and a car will appear in a year for almost no money. Cadillac has had to do things in stages.

Because the brand has been poorly managed for decades with a handful of shining moments here and there.

thebigjimsho
07-29-12, 03:24 AM
The XTS will become what the Lexus ES is now.

ogbuehi
07-29-12, 08:35 AM
But many people here think you can fart pixies and a car will appear in a year for almost no money. Cadillac has had to do things in stages. And looking at the progression of offerings, doing quite well. The XTS is not a flagship and will do just fine until the Omega arrives.

Why does everybody keep saying the XTS is not a flagship? For this MY, it is the biggest Cadillac car available for purchase. If its not the flagship of Cadillac cars, then what is? The CTS V wagon?

As far as the actual question goes, the one thing they could probably have done to get me to toy with purchasing an XTS would have been to make it wider. It just looks so narrow, I'm afraid the car is going to rollover if I take a turn too fast.

talismandave
07-29-12, 09:06 AM
Flagship by default, does not equal actually having a flagship.

Jesda
07-29-12, 10:10 AM
Why does everybody keep saying the XTS is not a flagship?

Because Cadillac says it isn't. A proper flagship is currently in development.

CadillacLuke24
07-29-12, 02:27 PM
I'm thinking the new and enlarged CTS might quietly take its place.

That appeared to be the initial intent of Cadillac, but.....



Because Cadillac says it isn't. A proper flagship is currently in development.

ZTS. DO IT CADILLAC.

thebigjimsho
07-29-12, 03:30 PM
Why does everybody keep saying the XTS is not a flagship? For this MY, it is the biggest Cadillac car available for purchase. If its not the flagship of Cadillac cars, then what is? The CTS V wagon?

As far as the actual question goes, the one thing they could probably have done to get me to toy with purchasing an XTS would have been to make it wider. It just looks so narrow, I'm afraid the car is going to rollover if I take a turn too fast.If being the largest was the criteria, then the Escalade would be it. Certainly the most advanced is the CTS-V and I've been calling that Cadillac's flagship for awhile.

cadillac kevin
07-29-12, 04:14 PM
That appeared to be the initial intent of Cadillac, but.....

ZTS. DO IT CADILLAC.

ZTS? WTF is that? Call it fleetwood brougham....everyone know what that is. Besides this whole "3 letter car name" thing is really getting old (and boring).
And whats xts stand for anyways? Xtreme touring sedan? Xylophone touring sedan?

77CDV
07-29-12, 04:19 PM
eXtremely Temporary Solution.

orconn
07-29-12, 04:45 PM
But many people here think you can fart pixies and a car will appear in a year for almost no money. Cadillac has had to do things in stages. And looking at the progression of offerings, doing quite well. The XTS is not a flagship and will do just fine until the Omega arrives.

You mean you can't fart pixies! The where did they all come from? They are all over the place down here in Dixie .... as Tom Lahr said "If you want to see a Dixie pixie ....." Damn there went another one!

thebigjimsho
07-29-12, 05:24 PM
ZTS? WTF is that? Call it fleetwood brougham....everyone know what that is. Besides this whole "3 letter car name" thing is really getting old (and boring).
And whats xts stand for anyways? Xtreme touring sedan? Xylophone touring sedan?Seriously? Name it Fleetwood Brougham and no one buys it...except for the couple hundred who love Fleetwood Broughams.

thebigjimsho
07-29-12, 05:25 PM
Fleetwood Broughams are great to see at an oldies car show. Just name it the Ciel and move on...

ryannel2003
07-29-12, 09:25 PM
Using any other name but the three letter ones currently in place would take Cadillac back a few decades and people would think "Fleetwood? Like the one my grandpa had? No thanks." it could be the best Cadillac ever and with the Fleetwood name nobody would even bother looking at it other than true Cadillac enthusiasts. The current scheme is fine. I think the DTS name should have stayed for the XTS and the new flagship could have used the XTS name. If Cadillac I serious about being a true luxury player... No names.

talismandave
07-30-12, 12:17 AM
ZTS? WTF is that? Call it fleetwood brougham....everyone know what that is. Besides this whole "3 letter car name" thing is really getting old (and boring).
And whats xts stand for anyways? Xtreme touring sedan? Xylophone touring sedan?

AMEM...I am soooo sick of cars with out names. Or worse, cars with made up words for names.

talismandave
07-30-12, 12:26 AM
Fleetwood Broughams are great to see at an oldies car show. Just name it the Ciel and move on...
Call it anything, just give it a name.
Naming their cars, instead of spitting alphabet soup at them to see what sticks, hasn't hurt Rolls Royce or Bentley's Luxury car cred.

MrHolland
07-30-12, 12:33 AM
^^^Its lonely at the top!!^^^

Jesda
07-30-12, 03:43 AM
ZTS? WTF is that? Call it fleetwood brougham....everyone know what that is. Besides this whole "3 letter car name" thing is really getting old (and boring).
And whats xts stand for anyways? Xtreme touring sedan? Xylophone touring sedan?

:histeric:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UVNT4wvIGY

Jesda
07-30-12, 03:46 AM
Fleetwood Broughams are great to see at an oldies car show. Just name it the Ciel and move on...

Ciel is perfectly elegant, but there's nothing wrong with an older name either.

Mullally brought back "Taurus" and chose to retain "Explorer" for Ford's new midsize CUV.

brandondeleo
07-30-12, 03:46 AM
I've grown to like that song, but that damned xylophone line makes it sound like a children's song, like freaking Barney or something.

I think Kimbra is the best part of it.

talismandave
07-30-12, 09:12 AM
I like that song too. The vocals remind me of a song that got play about a year ago and I never caught the name of it. I think the group was three names together, one of them being Bjorn?

RippyPartsDept
07-30-12, 09:18 AM
http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-sts-forum-2005-through-2012/129811-what-do-all-letters-mean-sts.html
(http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-sts-forum-2005-through-2012/129811-what-do-all-letters-mean-sts.html)

Technically

STS = S-Series Touring Sedan
CTS = C-Series Touring Sedan
DTS = D-series Touring Sedan
XLR = X-Series Luxury Roadster
SRX = S-Series Reconfigurable Crossover

Historically STS did stand for Seville Touring Sedan and the original CTS actually had "Catera" Stamped on certain parts. But the above is what is most typically quoted by Cadillac now.
http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-xts-forum/258312-xts-right-now-post-questions-pic.html

Another cool story from today, straight from the horse's mouth- how the XTS got its name.

While designing the car, the team was adamant that this car was a clean break from the STS and DTS and not meant to directly "replace" them, therefore it needed a new name. During the design phase they labeled their work "xTS", with the intention of eventually deciding on a first letter to use instead of the placeholder lower case x.

One day Bob Lutz walks in and says "XTS, I like it", and from then on the car was officially the XTS.

So there you go- put that one in your hat and win a bar bet 5 years from now. :D
So, I guess the X in XTS stands for X-series

77CDV
07-30-12, 04:46 PM
I've grown to like that song, but that damned xylophone line makes it sound like a children's song, like freaking Barney or something.

I think Kimbra is the best part of it.


I like that song too. The vocals remind me of a song that got play about a year ago and I never caught the name of it. I think the group was three names together, one of them being Bjorn?

It just makes me think of The Turtles or The Zombies.

vincentm
07-30-12, 08:33 PM
Fleetwood Broughams are great to see at an oldies car show. Just name it the Ciel and move on...

:yeah:

ogbuehi
07-30-12, 09:20 PM
If being the largest was the criteria, then the Escalade would be it. Certainly the most advanced is the CTS-V and I've been calling that Cadillac's flagship for awhile.

If you read my post entirely you'd notice that I was referring to cars, not trucks. And exactly what options on the interior of the CTS-V do you get that you can't get in the XTS?

thebigjimsho
07-30-12, 09:31 PM
If you read my post entirely you'd notice that I was referring to cars, not trucks. And exactly what options on the interior of the CTS-V do you get that you can't get in the XTS?Options? That defines a flagship? The CTS has the Sigma II platform, the most expensive and advanced chassis GM may have ever produced. And may be the best chassis in its class. The CTS-V has been called by C&D possibly the best car America has ever produced.

But, if you define a flagship by a vibrating seat, enjoy your stimulus...

ryannel2003
07-30-12, 10:25 PM
"More than a few of us consider the CTS-V to be the best American car ever made" - Car and Driver

No possibly. I also consider it one of the best cars ever made. Period. They're insane, and at I mean that in the best way.

Jesda
07-31-12, 01:16 AM
Options? That defines a flagship? The CTS has the Sigma II platform, the most expensive and advanced chassis GM may have ever produced. And may be the best chassis in its class. The CTS-V has been called by C&D possibly the best car America has ever produced.

But, if you define a flagship by a vibrating seat, enjoy your stimulus...

CTS-V is a halo car. XTS is a comfort car. Escalade is a luxury truck.


But according to Cadillac, none of those are a flagship, which is why they're building one as we speak. I can't wait to see the first photos.

RippyPartsDept
07-31-12, 09:01 AM
NAIAS hopefully ...

thebigjimsho
07-31-12, 09:14 AM
NAIAS hopefully ...I wouldn't think this coming year. But, if so, I'm there!

RippyPartsDept
07-31-12, 09:30 AM
well maybe ... if it's two years out we might get a concept vehicle

...

the ELR and new Escalade are supposed to debut at this years shows also (NAIAS for the esky i'm sure)

ogbuehi
07-31-12, 06:10 PM
Options? That defines a flagship? The CTS has the Sigma II platform, the most expensive and advanced chassis GM may have ever produced. And may be the best chassis in its class. The CTS-V has been called by C&D possibly the best car America has ever produced.

But, if you define a flagship by a vibrating seat, enjoy your stimulus...

Nope, try again and read my post entirely. I didn't say anything about options that define flagships. I specifically asked about options on the INTERIOR of the cars. Not the exteriors. I know they both have different chassis'.

RippyPartsDept
08-01-12, 09:36 AM
vibrating seat (Safety Seat Alert) is an interior option, no?

thebigjimsho
08-01-12, 10:44 AM
Nope, try again and read my post entirely. I didn't say anything about options that define flagships. I specifically asked about options on the INTERIOR of the cars. Not the exteriors. I know they both have different chassis'.

hahahaha

Looks like you're the one who needs to reread.

Again, if you think the amount of options a car has defines it as a flagship, try again.

ryannel2003
08-01-12, 01:15 PM
The problem is that Cadillac has never had a real "flagship" per se. When you think of Mercedes Benz, you think the S-Class. BMW's flagship has always been the 7 Series. Audi, either the A8 or the R8. Lexus has the LS460L. Cadillac decided in the mid 70's the Seville was going to be the flagship, as it was the most expensive and had the newest technology. Throughout the last 30 so years there hasn't been a clear answer. In the 90's it would be safe to say that the Seville STS was the flagship as it had the most technology, but then the Deville DTS could have been the flagship starting in 2000 as it had some pretty great technology. Then in 2004 it could have easily been said the XLR was the flagship. Once that died in 2009, it's looking like either the Escalade Platinum or the CTS-V could be it. Cadillac needs an obvious flagship, not switching up models every few years and stating it's the flagship.

bigm57ict
08-01-12, 04:15 PM
Sorry, but no matter how great the CTS may be, I just can't call a car that can trace its lineage back the Catera a "flagship" :hide:

ryannel2003
08-01-12, 05:33 PM
The CTS and the Catera have absolutely nothing to do with each other than the fact when the CTS did in fact come out the initial in "C" did stand for Catera. Otherwise they have nothing in common besides being 4 door, RWD vehicles.

RippyPartsDept
08-01-12, 05:39 PM
well the 3.2L in the 2003 CTS was descended from the 3.0L in the catera ... and certain parts for the 2003 CTS had CATERA imprinted on them
(but i think that had more to do with parts sharing than actual lineage)

cadillac was planning on making the CTS the new catera but thought better of it and put a model year gap inbetween the two and renamed the car CTS

i don't think the C in CTS ever stood for Catera ... GM has consistently stuck with C-series Touring Sedan for CTS and S-series Touring Sedan (for the 2005+ STS) and D-series Touring Sedan (for the 2006+ DTS) ... SRX = S-series Reconfigurable Crossover ... XLR - X-series Luxury Roadster ...

back in the years before these models went strictly to the three letter names the Seville STS (while totally redundant) did stand for Seville Touring Sedan and SLS stood for Seville Luxury Sedan
... i think GM knew that they were going to lead people on to thinking that DTS and STS meant deville and seville but internally to GM they stopped using those names and began using the D-series and S-series designations

orconn
08-01-12, 05:47 PM
Truth be told I think it has been a long time since anybody cared if Cadillac had a flagship model. If "flagship" status was important to them they looked to another manufacturer. Hopefully Cadillac will add a truly "world class" model to their line up and buyers of "flagship" class automobiles will once again consider a Cadillac. We can hope!

ryannel2003
08-01-12, 05:59 PM
well the 3.2L in the 2003 CTS was descended from the 3.0L in the catera ... and certain parts for the 2003 CTS had CATERA imprinted on them
(but i think that had more to do with parts sharing than actual lineage)

cadillac was planning on making the CTS the new catera but thought better of it and put a model year gap inbetween the two and renamed the car CTS

i don't think the C in CTS ever stood for Catera ... GM has consistently stuck with C-series Touring Sedan for CTS and S-series Touring Sedan (for the 2005+ STS) and D-series Touring Sedan (for the 2006+ DTS) ... SRX = S-series Reconfigurable Crossover ... XLR - X-series Luxury Roadster ...

back in the years before these models went strictly to the three letter names the Seville STS (while totally redundant) did stand for Seville Touring Sedan and SLS stood for Seville Luxury Sedan
... i think GM knew that they were going to lead people on to thinking that DTS and STS meant deville and seville but internally to GM they stopped using those names and began using the D-series and S-series designations

I think of some of the literature for the beginning of the CTS production stated that it was going to be called the Catera Touring Sedan, but I think GM probably realized using the name from the lame-duck Catera wasn't a good idea. I had completely forgotten about the 3.2L... it wasn't a great motor and tended to be a bit of a nightmare from what the techs told me. The 3.0L was horrible, of course.

CadillacLuke24
08-01-12, 06:40 PM
Build the Ciel and call it good. There's your flagship.

ogbuehi
08-01-12, 06:59 PM
well the 3.2L in the 2003 CTS was descended from the 3.0L in the catera ... and certain parts for the 2003 CTS had CATERA imprinted on them
(but i think that had more to do with parts sharing than actual lineage)

cadillac was planning on making the CTS the new catera but thought better of it and put a model year gap inbetween the two and renamed the car CTS

i don't think the C in CTS ever stood for Catera ... GM has consistently stuck with C-series Touring Sedan for CTS and S-series Touring Sedan (for the 2005+ STS) and D-series Touring Sedan (for the 2006+ DTS) ... SRX = S-series Reconfigurable Crossover ... XLR - X-series Luxury Roadster ...

back in the years before these models went strictly to the three letter names the Seville STS (while totally redundant) did stand for Seville Touring Sedan and SLS stood for Seville Luxury Sedan
... i think GM knew that they were going to lead people on to thinking that DTS and STS meant deville and seville but internally to GM they stopped using those names and began using the D-series and S-series designations

I definitely agree with the above. The DTS coincidentally is the D series when it descended from the "D"eville. The STS coincidentally is the S series when it descended from the "S"eville. And the CTS which for all intents and purposes picked up where the "C"atera left off as cadillac's new addition as small 4-door Cadillac sedan.

77CDV
08-01-12, 08:14 PM
Cadillac flagship.
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa237/cmchally/2012%20grand%20national/126.jpg

:/thread

brandondeleo
08-01-12, 08:21 PM
Cadillac flagship.
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa237/cmchally/2012%20grand%20national/126.jpg

:/thread
:yeah:

CadillacLuke24
08-01-12, 08:26 PM
There ya go. Give Cadillac a derivative of the SS, make it their own, and call it......

:drool2:

:yup:

:D

:cool:

FTS!

MrHolland
08-01-12, 08:27 PM
:yeah:

Ill dig up some pics of an FTS

cadillac kevin
08-01-12, 09:18 PM
:yeah:

Ill dig up some pics of an FTS

So a stretched ppv caprice with a more formal roofline, lots of chrome, 20" wires, and rear fins?

CadillacLuke24
08-01-12, 11:02 PM
No stretch needed, just lower it a tad, give it decent overhangs at both ends, shorten the wheelbase a tad, 18'' rims, chrome trim, and hold off on the tail fins. :D

brandondeleo
08-01-12, 11:10 PM
shorten the wheelbase a tad
Umm... Wtf dude. No. :lol:

MrHolland
08-01-12, 11:40 PM
I found the FTS!!!
95534 95535 95536 95537 95538 95539 95540 95541 95542

Found it on LIL. (pg 891 of nearly 1700, sorry it took so long) Gentleman gave it to his son. Look at those miles!!!! That demonstrates the dependability of what a Flagship model should have!! Change the rims, and we have a winner.

brandondeleo
08-01-12, 11:54 PM
Double postness

brandondeleo
08-01-12, 11:55 PM
I WOULD KILLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL FOR A FWB WITH A CONSOLE.

Seriously. I'd slap a big hood ornament on it, too.

I could go without the A pillar gauges, though...

CadillacLuke24
08-02-12, 02:01 AM
Umm... Wtf dude. No. :lol:

Well get the wheels away from the corners of the car. Looks good on a Chevy, not quite so much on a Cadillac. Yeah, they may have done that with teh V, but if they're going to do so go about it THAT way.

brandondeleo
08-02-12, 02:06 AM
Well get the wheels away from the corners of the car. Looks good on a Chevy, not quite so much on a Cadillac. Yeah, they may have done that with teh V, but if they're going to do so go about it THAT way.
The solution there is to extend the body away from the wheels instead of the other way around! Keep that humongous wheelbase for all of the interior space and ride and stretch out the body around them.

oldcaddybuyer
08-02-12, 06:25 AM
Today's logic:
old = bad
new = good

"Don't call it a Fleetwood! oh god no! That's old! That's not cool! The letters are way cooler"

Fast forward thirty years when this generation will be older and ready for touring cars:
"A Ciel? No way man that's so lame. That's like my dad's car. I want a 7 Series or S Class!"

They need to build a RWD V8 flagship. They don't need to call it Ciel. Sounds like a Hyundai.

RippyPartsDept
08-02-12, 09:55 AM
they won't call it Ciel ... it will probably have a 3-letter name like the rest of the lineup ... ZLR (z-series luxury roadster if they go the convertible route like the ciel) or ZLS (z-series luxury sedan for the hardtop)

i could live with that (or something like that)

talismandave
08-02-12, 11:02 AM
Flagships should lead, not follow.
A vehicle name used to stir the imagination. They would evoke images in the mind of a luxury destination, or an image of speed or strength. They would tell you, just by reading the name. Without ever seeing the car, what kind of vehicle it aspires to be. When someone told you what car they bought, the name alone would tell you something about the the car and the buyer. Manufacturers would put great thought behind the proper name for a car. Those names would even determine the advertising and photo shoots for the car to build the image. The names were explained in introduction press releases and expounded on in literatue.
More alphabet soup=follower, not leader.IMO.:nono:

RippyPartsDept
08-02-12, 11:33 AM
what is BMW's flagship and what has it been over the past 4-5 decades?

mercedes?

Lexus?

...

i agree with you that a name can help with the marketing by sparking the consumer's imagination
that used to help a lot but marketers have found out that the right advertising could sell just about anything - no matter what it's name is

i agree with you that alphabet soup is not where we should be - but remember: "What's in a name? That which we call a rose By any other name would smell as sweet"

i'm more concerned with the car itself and the name is just something on the side that doesn't really matter as much as what the car actual is

thebigjimsho
08-02-12, 03:10 PM
Today's logic:
old = bad
new = good

"Don't call it a Fleetwood! oh god no! That's old! That's not cool! The letters are way cooler"

Fast forward thirty years when this generation will be older and ready for touring cars:
"A Ciel? No way man that's so lame. That's like my dad's car. I want a 7 Series or S Class!"

They need to build a RWD V8 flagship. They don't need to call it Ciel. Sounds like a Hyundai.

And Fleetwood sounds like grandpa's den with his National Geographic magazines, pipes and wood paneling.

talismandave
08-02-12, 03:53 PM
There is a whole world out there of inspirational and aspirational names without rehashing tired old ones.

talismandave
08-02-12, 03:58 PM
what is BMW's flagship and what has it been over the past 4-5 decades?

mercedes?

Lexus?

...

By all means...keep following instead of leading!
Is that what all the outstanding innovators of the world have done?
Or do we not care about being an outstanding innovator?

And I do agree with you Chris, the product is the most important part of the equation. I will probably be replacing my Volvo with an E35 Cab when my warranty is up. I will not pass on the full size 4 place convert with a true cloth top just because it has an alpha numeric name. However, small consolation to me is when Merc started doing it, they were innovators!

RippyPartsDept
08-02-12, 04:22 PM
i'm just saying that the name means nothing

sure we'd rather have a cool and inspiring name - but really the name means NOTHING as evidenced by the great sales of the flagship vehicles of those companies that i mentioned

i wasn't saying that because they use alphabet soup we should use alphabet soup
i was saying "see - they use alphabet soup and they're killing us in the sales figures"
and the way to bring up the sales figures is not with a name
so lets focus on what really matters - the actual car itself

also, sometimes blazing your own trail isn't such a good idea
for instance there are basically two main paths to take to get to the top of mount everest
there's a reason that the other 16 trails aren't traveled nearly as often and why nobody's really trying to find a 19th way to the top
...
BMW created a great car in the 3-series ... Cadillac openly admits that the ATS was benchmarked upon the best 3-series (in Cadillac's opinion) - the E46

steve jobs didn't create the first mp3 player or the first smartphone or the first touchscreen tablet
he followed then led

as far as i'm concerned that is the path that cadillac is trying to take
they didn't create the small luxury sports car segment of the market
they're following before they lead

the ATS will be a better 3-series ... maybe not in the first generation (but it sounds like they've come real close)
but soon the germans will be following us ... just watch

talismandave
08-02-12, 04:40 PM
I agree on the ATS, and others will follow us up one of those same well prodded paths to the top. They won't however be innovators, merely followers. Will they get to the top too? Sure. Will they find ways to improve upon our climb? Probably. Not really the same as finding a new way to the top. Dangerous, sure. True innovators take giant risks. Often paying the ultimate price for that risk. I am not saying it is wise for Cadillac to take the risk, only that I miss the days they were healthy enough to do it.;)

RippyPartsDept
08-02-12, 05:01 PM
ok, at least you're being realistic about it

:thumbsup:

talismandave
08-02-12, 05:12 PM
I knew we could come to some sort of agreement!:lol:

I have said before that Cadillac is being smart about their rebuilding efforts. They are doing a good job and getting needed attention from media and enthusiasts. Of this I am very happy. For almost all of my life that claim could not be made. I just love to dream and urge a day with an even better reality!:cloud9:

RippyPartsDept
08-02-12, 05:17 PM
well the name for the omega is not set in stone yet so we can still hope to get out of this alphabet soup ... it's not looking very good but there's always hope, right? :hope:

talismandave
08-02-12, 05:44 PM
Hope burns eternal.

oldcaddybuyer
08-02-12, 10:54 PM
And Fleetwood sounds like grandpa's den with his National Geographic magazines, pipes and wood paneling.

Yep that sounds about right except the magazines weren't National Geographic. When I was a child, he would drive me around town all the time and I had to sit on the arm rest next to him so I could see. Of course that was way before child seat laws and air bags :cool: Those days are long gone.

I'm not advocating they call the new flagship 'fleetwood'. And I agree with others that the car itself will be its own legacy, not the name. But the name will be tied to the legacy.

I wonder if they plan to change the standard Escalade to a three letter designator to match EXT/ESV for the redesign. Isn't it the only Caddy left with a 'name'?

CadillacLuke24
08-04-12, 01:26 AM
That would be entertaining. Since the EXT is retiring, there could be the ERV (Escalade Regular Vehicle) and the ESV (Escalade Stretch Vehicle).

brandondeleo
08-04-12, 03:11 AM
Since the EXT is retiring
...good riddance...

ryannel2003
08-04-12, 10:51 AM
What will the rappers and drug dealers drive now?? :hmm:

Jesda
08-04-12, 11:14 AM
What will the rappers and drug dealers drive now?? :hmm:

Used 5 and 7 series.

RippyPartsDept
08-04-12, 11:19 AM
Land and Range Rovers

ryannel2003
08-04-12, 11:34 AM
Used 5 and 7 series.

I've noticed that quite a few Lexus have now joined the ranks as the new car for drug dealers. Ironically I knew a guy who had a '01 740i Sport who was a drug dealer.

brandondeleo
08-05-12, 02:57 AM
Land and Range Rovers
Range Rovers?

I knew Ian was a drug dealer!!

CadillacLuke24
08-06-12, 04:07 AM
...good riddance...

Whatever, Mr. Idrivethebaneandlaughingstockoftheentireautomotive world.

:stirpot:

brandondeleo
08-06-12, 04:15 AM
Whatever, Mr. Idrivethebaneandlaughingstockoftheentireautomotive world.
Eh, used to it from CF by now. :yawn: I think nowadays Nissan takes the cake...

http://japannewscar.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/nissan-juke.jpg
http://images.pictureshunt.com/pics/n/nissan_cube-7006.jpg
http://www.newcarspeed.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Nissan-Murano-CrossCabriolet-Front-Angle.jpg

hueterm
08-06-12, 02:29 PM
Around here, the average EXT driver is a 70 year old Walmart millionaire retiree, rancher, or real estate developer.

I'm definitely on the younger end of the scale...

The drug dealers around here drive riced up Sebrings....oh, the irony...

77CDV
08-06-12, 10:01 PM
Eh, used to it from CF by now. :yawn: I think nowadays Nissan takes the cake...

http://japannewscar.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/nissan-juke.jpg
http://images.pictureshunt.com/pics/n/nissan_cube-7006.jpg
http://www.newcarspeed.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Nissan-Murano-CrossCabriolet-Front-Angle.jpg

Sadly, Nissan used to make some of the cleanest, most appealing designs of the Asian makes. Now they all look like they fell off the top of the ugly tree, hit every branch and twig on the way down, then someone hooked them up to an air pump and didn't know how to shut it off. Hideous, bloated, ungainly things. Belch! :vomit:

CadillacLuke24
08-06-12, 11:23 PM
Nissans are hideous. This is true. EXTs though, they are the epitome of BADASS LUXURY TRUCK! :D

I will happily take a Diamond White 3coat on Cashmere EXT with the 22s, please. :yup:

brandondeleo
08-08-12, 09:12 PM
Oops

brandondeleo
08-08-12, 09:24 PM
Around here, the average EXT driver is a 70 year old
That's enough.

2blackcaddies
08-08-12, 11:07 PM
Checking in.... Love the ext. My fave of the three. And we all need to chill on the xts. It's not a Cadillac for Cadillac fanatics. It's a Cadillac built to take market share from the other guys.... We'll get our flagship, I have faith. In my eyes, xts is the ultimate es350... But I don't want a es 350. If I was shopping for a es, I'd end up buying the xts.... Then I'd be hooked on Cadillac and ready for that "flagship" on the next round.

CadillacLuke24
08-09-12, 01:19 AM
I Knew I liked this new dude :D

talismandave
08-09-12, 02:03 PM
Yeah I think he has found a new home here. I look forward to getting together!

ShapeShifter
08-09-12, 03:06 PM
I really haven't paid them much attention. But did see the brief Motorweek segment on the ATS Sedan. They rated it pretty high on style and performance for it class, and ranked it as a more than capable platform to challenge BMW's 3-Series. To me, the body seems a bit tall and narrow.

2blackcaddies
08-09-12, 04:47 PM
Ats looks to me what the gen2 cts should have been. Don't get me wrong I love the 08+ cts but I feel like it lost a little.... edge. Ats looks like a great drivers car. Call me nuts but When I drove the ctsv coupe (6spd) I really wasn't as thrilled as I was the first time I drove a gen1 v back in 04. No disrespect. The v coupe is amazing and I'd love to own one. I just think it will be really hard for cadillac to ever create the excitement of the first v again. As far as dts... I don't care if it's 18 year old tech. Dts was THE American v8 luxury sedan. The look, the ride... Hell, even the headgasket destroying, torque converter clutch solenoid devouring n* had it's charm. My 2000 sedan has 106k, the original headgasket and runs perfect. I love it. (knocks on wood)

hueterm
08-09-12, 06:45 PM
That's enough.

Seriously, except for you Lion King, the typical non-riced Sebring driver isn't far behind...

Johnxlrv
08-09-12, 08:39 PM
"High and narrow"...agreed. I am more than a bit tired of the higher profile Cadillacs...reminds me too much of the trend of late...more body, less glass...leave that for the rat rods please. One of my favorites was a 76 CDV and closely followed by the 63 CDV...owned both. Sometimes being surrounded by more than just hard plastic is what Cadillacs should be.

N* issues aside, I still like the '00 sts for some reason...and will try a ctsv one of these days to check for the excitement level. I gues it is about having something you could actually work on (I look at my XLR and pray to the caddy god to look favorably on that car often...'cus any repairs is totally out of my hands...it is what that big engine cover means..."stay away, this is not for you" rofl")

brandondeleo
08-10-12, 03:23 AM
Seriously, except for you Lion King, the typical non-riced Sebring driver isn't far behind...
It's true. The average Sebring driver is a late middle aged golfer wearing a Hawaiian shirt.

77CDV
08-10-12, 11:17 PM
It's true. The average Sebring driver is a late middle aged golfer wearing a Hawaiian shirt.

You say it like it's a bad thing! :lol:

CadillacLuke24
08-11-12, 12:24 AM
Middle aged golfers with Hawaiian shirts are likely going through midlife crises, hair loss, and lack of libido. I don't think that will help Brandon in his quest for female companionship. :histeric:

talismandave
08-11-12, 01:02 AM
Middle aged golfers with Hawaiian shirts are likely going through midlife crises, hair loss, and lack of libido.
As a former Sebring owner I must correct this stereotype...I did not golf, and I am not middle aged.
(As a co-worker pointed out."you aint gonna live to 106 dude, you aint middle aged!"

orconn
08-11-12, 01:05 AM
^^^ What a "kill joy" everyone knows that 53 is the "new" 25!!!

RippyPartsDept
08-11-12, 09:06 AM
isn't it a bit early (or premature) to be having a thread like this?
most forum members haven't even seen one of these in person, and even fewer have sat in them or test driven them

i'm all for constructive criticism etc but this seems to be a bit on the curmudgeon side

orconn
08-11-12, 12:51 PM
^^^Actually, quite true, Rippy! But then since when did we need to actually "drive" or get to know cars to criticize them?

RippyPartsDept
08-11-12, 01:05 PM
you got me there ... i think someone put something in my coffee this morning ... i've been quite irritable

orconn
08-12-12, 03:36 PM
Middle aged golfers with Hawaiian shirts are likely going through midlife crises, hair loss, and lack of libido. I don't think that will help Brandon in his quest for female companionship. :histeric:

Actually it's not the "middle aged" guys going through mid life crisis, losing their hair, with their slowing libido that I feel sorry for, it's the twenty-one somethings that are losing their hair, and losing their battle with early aging that I feel sorry for .... regardless of what kind of car they drive. But then even they have a bright side ..... they will have a longer "middle age!"

Jesda
08-12-12, 03:47 PM
Actually it's not the "middle aged" guys going through mid life crisis, losing their hair, with their slowing libido that I feel sorry for, it's the twenty-one somethings that are losing their hair, and losing their battle with early aging that I feel sorry for .... regardless of what kind of car they drive. But then even they have a bright side ..... they will have a longer "middle age!"

My MLC began at 25 and will likely end at 50.

orconn
08-12-12, 05:36 PM
Hey, the fifties are some of the best times to indulge your middle age crisis ... by that point people just smile and let you do whatever you want! Sixties are great too if your health holds up. If my neighborhood is any place to judge by, it's the sixties when the guys get their Corvette or whatever, (most of the Corvettes, Bimmer convertibles and Mercedes around here are driven by women in their thirties and forties, go figure!).
If you are smart, the kid's problems will be their own, and you can just smile and do your own thing!

2blackcaddies
08-21-12, 01:50 AM
OK I'm feeling much better about Cadillac now. Drove the XTS today and it is frikin awesome. Before I said XTS is the ultimate ES and I don't want it. Well, when you drive it, you won't be thinking ES.... It feels different, unique, but still Cadillac. Love it. Would I buy one? Ha, maybe in three years when some poor sap takes the big hit in depreciation. All kidding aside, I found out that I shouldn't have opened my mouth before I drove it. It made me feel like someone took the 1st gen CTS and mixed it with the last DTS and added massive tech and updated styling. Very cool. My only complaint is CUE is sorta laggy..... I was expecting it to be faster and more responsive and the haptic feedback feels kinda cheap. Magnetic ride is awesome and the power is more than enough. Looks great, rides great, full of tech. I think I was kinda surly earlier in the thread... I take it all back, XTS is sweet, and it isn't even the REAL DTS replacement. Makes me just go wild in anticipation for that "flagship" we were talking about.

thebigjimsho
08-21-12, 06:35 AM
I got to test drive one a couple of weeks ago. Space is great, better than what I expected.

And, sitting in the back of both the DTS and XTS, the XTS has just as much room. The difference is the DTS is a tad wider and it's square. The sweeping roofline makes the XTS seem not as airy. But it is...

RippyPartsDept
08-21-12, 09:09 AM
OK I'm feeling much better about Cadillac now. Drove the XTS today and it is frikin awesome. Before I said XTS is the ultimate ES and I don't want it. Well, when you drive it, you won't be thinking ES.... It feels different, unique, but still Cadillac. Love it. Would I buy one? Ha, maybe in three years when some poor sap takes the big hit in depreciation. All kidding aside, I found out that I shouldn't have opened my mouth before I drove it. It made me feel like someone took the 1st gen CTS and mixed it with the last DTS and added massive tech and updated styling. Very cool. My only complaint is CUE is sorta laggy..... I was expecting it to be faster and more responsive and the haptic feedback feels kinda cheap. Magnetic ride is awesome and the power is more than enough. Looks great, rides great, full of tech. I think I was kinda surly earlier in the thread... I take it all back, XTS is sweet, and it isn't even the REAL DTS replacement. Makes me just go wild in anticipation for that "flagship" we were talking about.

proof why i've been telling people to drive one before passing judgement
thanks for being a man and admitting you were wrong

2blackcaddies
08-21-12, 07:25 PM
Hey, I'm never wrong, but sometimes I'm just.... Missing critical information....

RippyPartsDept
08-21-12, 08:37 PM
Right... Sorry :cool2:

thebigjimsho
08-21-12, 10:35 PM
wha happun?

2blackcaddies
08-22-12, 07:19 PM
Gonna get to drive a xts for a couple days! Will post pics!!!