I have owned several Cadillacs over the years: a 90 Deville, 92 Fleetwood (FWD), a 96 Concours, and just recently an 00 DHS. Through all of this I have noticed one thing, a constant decline in quality. My 90&92 were both fairly decent cars. The ride was plush, the technology seemed to fit the status, and the engine provided substantial power. Aside from a few wear and tear issues, basic mantience kept them delivering.
Then I bought my 96 Concours, What was supposed to be the flag ship of the fleet seemed somewhat underwhelmig as the seat dye began to wear off the drivers seat bolster. Then the dash began to warp into something resembling a tortillia shell aroud the passenger airbag. A tempremental heated seats angered a frozen posteiror and the infamous "Service Ride Control" provided a seziure inducing flashing for night tim road trips. A mysterious oil evaporatoin problem almost made me question the point of even changing it. Then the suspension seized completely and I was blessed with a ride comperable to that of a Radio Flyer Wagon plumeting down the Alps. She was a beautiful car but an expensive whore in a prom dress is nothing to brag to your friends about.
Well, I held to my convictions after her sale and bought a 2000 DHS. If my last one was the whore this was the house she was raised in. It began with the failure of the rear sunshade and the heated seats. No biggie I was already numb. Then the dashboard warped and slid completely off, all of it! revaling a very beautiful sticky textured black base. Ok, new dash. Next my lumbar button found itself comfortable hiding deep into the confines of the seat pad somewhere, the cupholder cracked loose, and the telescoping wheel began to emit a wonderful screetch each time it moved. Needless to say I was becoming frustrated but she wasnt done yet, soon she began chosing what I could listen to by ejecting CDs at random, and deciding my passengers comfort level bt disabling their climate controls... permantly. Well I was fit to be tied the morning that I drove off into the summer sun and returned on a flatbed because my transmission had enough and melted. This was a 2000 model and I was dealing with issues most never do with an 80's!
I am disgusted with what Cadillac has become. They sell me a status symbol, a peace of mind, what I end up with is a peice of sh**. Here is a trusted company whose roots stem to the very beginnings of automotive history and yet the are destroying the very thing they strived to acheieve without so much as an afore thought. As they struggle to climb from the grave their current customer base dissapears into I hope they realize that the wounds they have left cannnot be cured by simply placing a fancy designed bandage over. Their infecton will stem from poor craftsmanship, fit and finish, and quality. Cadillac has a preamble entitled "The Penalty of Leadership" perhaps its time someone sat down and evaluated its meaning before more are plagued to endure "The Penalty of Ownership".
Anyway, I dont mean to offend any Cadillac fans, I was one for years, I've just finally had enough.
Cadillac. It was fun, but you have lost my trust and respect, it will be a long time before I can ever consider you the standard of my world.
Thanks for letting me vent - Slick Black Cadillac

WOW, Im sorry your experience has been so bad. Certainly they arent all like this, and the new ones are getting better. I agree quality made a gradual decline throughout the late nineties, but then in about 01 things started to get better. Remember, all luxury cars have issues, though I agree a warping dashboard and failed ride control shouldnt be one of them.

In any case, where will your car journey take you next?

On and btw... I loved this line... "Then the suspension seized completely and I was blessed with a ride comperable to that of a Radio Flyer Wagon plumeting down the Alps. To steal a line from Wes, GOLDEN!

Why did the waranty not cover theese things? A 2000 anything should still be under waranty! Was it used? Because the things you describe kinda sound like flood dammage.

Buy a new one and see how it fares. Buy a used one and you are always taking a chance.

Quality is supposed to be better right now than ever so I think it's a bit premature to judge the current models with absolution.

Do I really have to post links for MB, Toyota, Honda, showing terrible quality and MUCH WORSE problems that you describe here for Cadillac? Have you not seen the JD Power ratings index lately? Cadillac is number 2 after Lexus.

I think they have accomplished a remarkable feat in Quality and Sales, repeat customers seem to evidence this.

Cadillac has actually surpassed Toyota in long term quality. Toyota has maintained short term quality supremacy, for now. (I can post this link, I just have to dig for it, but I know where it is)

I don't know what list you are referring to, Ralph, (there are so many lists...) but the list recently published in our newspaper is like this:

#1. Infiniti
#2. Lexus
#3. Lincoln
#4. Cadillac
#5. Honda

BTW, he had to buy them all well used! He's 22. The 1st one he was 8 years old, the 2nd one he was 10 years when they were made. The 3rd one he was 14 years old and the 2000 he was just 18.

Buy a new one and see how it fares. Buy a used one and you are always taking a chance.

Quality is supposed to be better right now than ever so I think it's a bit premature to judge the current models with absolution.

Do I really have to post links for MB, Toyota, Honda, showing terrible quality and MUCH WORSE problems that you describe here for Cadillac? Have you not seen the JD Power ratings index lately? Cadillac is number 2 after Lexus.

I think they have accomplished a remarkable feat in Quality and Sales, repeat customers seem to evidence this.

Cadillac has actually surpassed Toyota in long term quality. Toyota has maintained short term quality supremacy, for now. (I can post this link, I just have to dig for it, but I know where it is)

I agree Ralph, but it doesnt matter what the reports say when YOUR individual experience ends up terrible. It really sours you on the brand for along time. I have to give it to him for sticking with it as long as he did. I considered getting a CTS-V the other day, and the one I rode in, made a nasty squeaking sound in the dash everytime the car was shifted, and it only had very little miles on it. Those kind of things are small, but they build up. The next 500 CTS-Vs off the line probably were perfectly fine, but that squeak may or may not be an easy fix for whoever ends up with that particular car.

that kid was bitten by the first year GM bug on that DHS ....plain and simple ...

our 2004 MAXX is falling apart now with a whopping 6700 miles on it .....as of right now :

1)Starter Continues to stay engaged 3-7 seconds after key is relesed and engine is running
2)Horrible suspension noise , sounds like a controll arm is coming off , very heavy very loud clunk.
3)A rattle under the dash GM wont fix but will gladly publish technical service bulletins about how to fix
4)XM radio , not only do we loose the subcription out of the radio daily (has to uplink and gets its info again) we loose all presets and the reception is equal listening to an FM radio station without the FM antenna !!!!
5)Engine is a very rare 2-4-6 3.5 , even the brocures dont mention this , but it runs on 2-6 cyalnders depending on what mood its in , this is the bipolar 3500 V6
6)The car also brake torqes itself at light and tires to move with the brake fully applied
7)There is no kickdown on the tranny , mom found this out trying to merge ont he interstate from 30 mph trying to get to 60 , took about 20 seconds as the tranny was locked in 4th gear with torque converter in full lock ....
8)If you use the "remote start" feature kiss listening to XM goodbye for that whole trip , your only going to be able to listen to 1010 AM radio
9)Power steering will loose all assist mid turn , Mom doesnt like this feature .....
10) they shoulda made a convertable model , then it would have an excuse to leak when it rains.....

Luckily the dealer has fixed 4 other problems we have had with the car ......

Recalled 3 times ,8 software updates, and had 4-5 shop visits .....6700 miles ....

My dad likes the toyota prius now ......So i think hes ready to lemmon law the MAXXident

EDIT: Also dad used to laugh when i said i was going to put a "Citation" emblem on it insated of "malibu" as thats what it looks like. Sad part is now when i make that joke he asks "Where can we get one ?"

I am disgusted with what Cadillac has become. They sell me a status symbol, a peace of mind, what I end up with is a peice of sh**.

As they struggle to climb from the grave their current customer base dissapears into I hope they realize that the wounds they have left cannnot be cured by simply placing a fancy designed bandage over.

Cadillac has a mantra entitled "The Penalty of Leadership" perhaps someone should sit down and think about its meaning before more are plagued to endure "The Penalty of Ownership".

Cadillac. It was fun, but you have lost my trust and respect, it will be a long time before I can ever consider you the standard of my world.



WOW!

That is an amazing post, and I loved the stuff at the end that I quoted.

It's a shame you had all of those problems. It sounds like some of the interior stuff is sun or external heat related. The CD and Transmission sound like an overheating problem as well, probably poor design or cost cutting.

Too bad. Good luck with whatever you choose next. :thumbsup:

Why did the waranty not cover theese things? A 2000 anything should still be under waranty! Was it used? Because the things you describe kinda sound like flood dammage.

3 year/36,000 is most common now on expensive GM vehicles. I've been dissappointed with our denali, for the most part its been great, but the engine and brakes are trash. Sure its fast, and is nice, but we've had headlight flickering,etc. GM is not what they used to be. My Blazer is extremely reliable, even after 284k miles. Sure somethings are breaking down, but overall, its never broken down. Drove it to the dealership on a dead transmission.

3 year/36,000 is most common now on expensive GM vehicles.

Cadillac warranty is 4 years or 50,000 miles. So if either the miles or the inservice date are past, he's out of luck going to the dealer!

I've had a whole list of at least 30 things that have gone wrong with my 2000 STS in the two years I've owned it. I did buy it used, but still it was only 3 years old and had 39k miles. Luckily for me everything was fixed under warranty. After the warranty went past, the fuel pump died, but that was covered by the aftermarket warranty I bought for it.
But since then, nothing else has gone wrong, it runs and drives great! I think it's because there's at least $15,000 in new parts in the car compliments of GM! Not bad for a car I paid $22,000 for to begin with! Thanks GM!

I'd sell it and buy something else, but I just can't part with the car! When everything is working right, the STS is an amazing car! Plus I still have 3 years left on my extended warranty, so I feel a little safer.

He put 22" spinners on the car, that voids the warranty if I'm not mistaken. Puts excessive strain on the tranny.

Buy a new one and see how it fares. Buy a used one and you are always taking a chance.
I got mine from the dealer, brand new.
I love it, but sometimes I hate it. Between me and my family we have owned lots of cars from different brands, and I don't recall anyone giving us as much troubles as my caddy. Maybe it is an exception, but still is annoying when you buy an expensive car (and in my country they are a LOT more expensive, specially the imported ones like this) and it results less reliable than what you expect, despite being treated like babies (garage kept, always serviced at the dealer according to scheduled, etc).
My father does not buy cadillacs after this one, and even if I want to keep mine until it falls apart, it is becoming too expensive.
Right now I'm considering buying/leasing an european one.

I don't know what list you are referring to, Ralph, (there are so many lists...)

True, there are many lists, but My O My, how soon we forget.... :shhh: I usually refer to JD because they seem to be the automotive standard and are well-respected.


http://cadillacforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23977



I feel bad for anyome who needs thousands of dollars for repairs, etc. and I hope I never have to. It's just that I don't believe an entire line should be dragged through the mud because a few people have negative experiences. Same applies for MB, BMW, Lexus, etc. It is usually the negative "experience" owners will post here and few positive, much like the media, etc.

If a car is fixed under warrenty successfully, then one should not complain in this situation IMO. If a car breaks down after warrenty, such is life sometimes.

Right now I'm considering buying/leasing an european one.

I'll let you in on a little secret. :shhh: European cars break down too. :yup:

I agree Ralph, but it doesnt matter what the reports say when YOUR individual experience ends up terrible. It really sours you on the brand for along time. I have to give it to him for sticking with it as long as he did. I considered getting a CTS-V the other day, and the one I rode in, made a nasty squeaking sound in the dash everytime the car was shifted, and it only had very little miles on it. Those kind of things are small, but they build up. The next 500 CTS-Vs off the line probably were perfectly fine, but that squeak may or may not be an easy fix for whoever ends up with that particular car.

Is there a truly PERFECT car in the world Ian? If one is ever discovered, let me know, I'm certain it might make all the others obsolete. :hmm:

Other than my Dad's 1979 Nova which has NEVER needed anything other than maintenance, there is NO PERFECT car. ;)

dude, buy a Fleetwood. we dont have half as many problems. not to say they dont have theirs but i havent heard nor seen of problems that bad on a Fleetwood. anyway, good luck on your next vehicle whatever it may be.

I'll let you in on a little secret. :shhh: European cars break down too. :yup:
Are you sure?!?!?!?!?? :D
Of course they do, the thing is how often...
And I plan to kep the caddy, anyway.

Do you live in Texas or something, The sun may have been what damaged your dash boards. Hopefully you had the windows tinted and put a sunshade in the window whenever you were not driving.

Stoneage- That's horrible about you parents Malibu :nono: I am dissapointed that its so bad.


European Cars :suspense:

I've gotta tell you guys, if I had a chance at a '96 Fleetwood vs a '96 S320 in equal condition, low miles, yada yada yada, I'd take the Mercedes every time even though I have an emotional attachment to Caddys.

im just the exact opposite. i would rather have the Fleetwood. i never really liked mercedes. i dont like the way they look. im sure they are dependable cars though.

I'll let you in on a little secret. :shhh: European cars break down too. :yup:
And when they do, bend over. Had some guy the other day with an Audi, no great beauty either. His cruise control wasn't working, the module was over $200 from the junkyard!!! A box the size of a cigarette pack!!

Having a shiny late model car that breaks as much as an old one is pretty depressing. As long as I can fix 'em myself I'm sticking with the old ones, at least they're paid for.

Just buy a new Town Car and thank me later. There **IS** a reason all the limo companies swear by them. Low maintenance, ultra smooth ride, no rattles, and they will go 200,000 miles with proper care.

I vote that we change the name of this thread to the CADILLAC BASHING THREAD!

Oh ya, Cadillac limos seem to be good enough for your President? :lildevil:

With proper care Cadillacs should last 200,000 miles as well.

Bush has some dang nice Cadillacs and not Lincolns. During Regans funeral car prossesion there were only 2 Lincolns that I remember counting, the rest Cadillacs.

I still think something fishy is with his dash boards if they both broke in 2 cars.

I believe Limo companies get Lincolns because they are cheaper and are a good value.

Two things
Sandy is absolutely correct.

Audi's are notorious vehicles. You need to be rich to own one. Don't think you can get away with buying an early 90's one. You'll still get bent over. Audi, Audire means To hear in latin. The trademark was that it was so quiet, you couldn't hear it running. I agree, you can't hear it running, because something electronic is shot and it won't run because of it!

:histeric:

Bush has some dang nice Cadillacs and not Lincolns. During Regans funeral car prossesion there were only 2 Lincolns that I remember counting, the rest Cadillacs.

I still think something fishy is with his dash boards if they both broke in 2 cars.

I believe Limo companies get Lincolns because they are cheaper and are a good value.

they run them not only for cost but there body on frame and solid rear axel cars ....easier to make into a professional car and they will stand up to abuse alot beatter than some unibody front driver

I vote that we change the name of this thread to the CADILLAC BASHING THREAD!

I was just actually thinking that with so many threads over bad experiences with Cadillacs we got to start a special mimi-forum. And as far as the DeVille being in a flood, any car could have been in a flood, but you do not hear as many horror stories about other cars, especially from Asia, Ralph, no matter how many links you give me about broken Hondas and Lexuses.

I will second the though that German cars are not any more reliable then American ones,though. They are also problematic, something I concluded from reading right this here forum (look at the link where the guy got a new 7 BMW in off-topic section)

Oh ya, Cadillac limos seem to be good enough for your President? :lildevil:

With proper care Cadillacs should last 200,000 miles as well.

But none of his did. :annoyed:

but you do not hear as many horror stories about other cars, especially from Asia, Ralph, no matter how many links you give me about broken Hondas and Lexuses.

That's YOUR opinion, and I feel that I've proved otherwise EXHAUSTIVELY!

I've posted links and comments from actual owners of those cars, and you cannot get more real than that my friend!

When Cadillac GM starts to actually maintain a "Consumer Warning" website like that "other" then I'll believe you.

Despite the proof I've posted in the likes of JD Power even on this thread, you still cannot or will not (for some strongly biased reason) accept that Cadillac is VERY close to Lexus and the gap IS closing faster than you might think. Is it really that impossible that an American car company can produce a product better than the Japanese, for example? Well guess what! Cadillac already has by beating the likes of Toyota and Lexus is in the same family! Not impossible AT ALL! While we're at it, why don't you go ask BBobynski if Cadillacs will last to 200,000 miles, and get back to us. Why don't you go ask some of the CTS-V owners if they'll ever sell their cars for an Acura, despite an occasional rattle here or glitch there.

There is no point in presenting evidence to someone who is not willing to believe, or even have an open mind about the changes in technology among manufacturers. You're right, I can present MANY links about broken down Toyotas and Lexuses but YOU have admitted you won't believe them! You probably wouldn't even look at them! :tisk:

Everything mechanical or otherwise WILL breakdown eventually. So to the author of this thread, good luck with whatever you buy, there will always be hardships in life, no matter what you drive.


From "The Car Connection.com"

As Toyota has proliferated new models, especially SUVs like Sequoia and Highlander and the high-tech Prius gas-electric hybrid, and launched a new factory in Indiana, it has been receiving more complaints from consumers than in past years.

While General Motors, Ford, and Chrysler all posted improvements from last year, GM is the only domestic automaker to score above the industry average at 262 problems per 100 vehicles. The industry average improved to 269 problems, versus 273 last year. GM's Buick and Cadillac brands scored better than Toyota-brand vehicles.

Consumers have come to assume that the study shows that Caddy and Buicks are better quality than Toyota. Maybe - but what it really means is that owners of Cadillacs and Buicks had fewer complaints than Toyota owners. Toyota owners, however, are younger than those of Buick and Cadillac tend to be tougher evaluators.

Still, U.S. automakers are improving every year. "The domestics are putting their money where their mouths are in terms of consistent long-term quality improvement," said Ivers.

Trust me, there are thousands more. (oops, I guess most of those links are old now and don't work) Nevermind. :p


http://www.autosafety.org/autodefects/ACURA.htm

http://washingtontimes.com/upi-brea...40300-7874r.htm

http://autonet.ca/AutonetStories/St...m?StoryID=10103

http://www.just-auto.com/news_detail.asp?art=44905

http://www.texas-injury-lawyers.com...ondarecalls.htm

http://earthrenewal.org/are_honda_a..._safe_and_r.htm

http://www.honda-acura.net/forums/a...hp/t-13114.html

The 320 in anything is usually pretty reliable. Thats not to say the stuff around it doesnt break, but Mercedes six cylinder engines are damn near bulletproof. The V8's and V12's though... :suspense:

By the way lev... my car is a poor example, it has 77000 miles and I dont fully know the history of it other than Carfax owner history. The only reason its even being serviced is because I am ultra picky, and the repairs are getting paid for, and all these damn Ride Control cars have suspension arthritis after 50k miles, I cant STAND ride control. I just wanted to know what part of the suspension I had to replace to at least smooth it out a little bit. Japanese vehicles are not substantially more reliable at this mileage, and dont provide near the satisfaction, pride or enjoyment that their european and American counterparts do.

A good comparison... I would own a 2001 LS430 Utra Luxury because it has toys like the first heated and cooled seats, rear audio and climate controls in the fold down armrest, adaptive cruise control, a kick-ass navi system and a smooth motor. Thats about it, from an inspirational standpoint, it does nothing for me.

I would own a 2004 CTS-V for brute power and a little sprinkle of luxury thrown in, and the pride of owning a unique and deadly fast inspiring luxury sedan. Even if it breaks once in a while, Ill know that when its running its gonna reward me every damn minute my foot is on that pedal.

I was just actually thinking that with so many threads over bad experiences with Cadillacs we got to start a special mimi-forum.

Are you actually implying that we start a Forum just for bashing Cadillacs :confused: :suspense:

To be fair, we'll have one for the imports also then. :thumbsup:

Imagine for a moment, your typical 84 year old female watching a televised basketball game. She'd have like zero interest in it, right?
Well..... I don't wanna offend anyone on here, and I am not trying to convert anyone, just stating MY feelings.....
Regarding cars made by companies with the heritage of those companies hailing from Korea, Japan or Germany, I have little to no interest or knowledge of them, and even less of a desire to learn about them, much like that 84 Y.O. woman watching the basketball game. What for? I'd never ever purchase one! Why do you think that I've only owned Imperials, Lincolns & Cadillacs ? 5 Imperials, 3 Lincolns & 3 Cadillacs over 40 years - or one appox. every 4 years. Much like the atmosphere between the country of France and America are chilly, my reasoning also finds its roots in politics.
So..... ___________________ (insert: BMW/M-B/Lexus/Infiniti/et. als.) can build a car miles better than anything GM or Ford makes, I'd be honored to then drive 2nd or 3rd or even 4th "best" .... (Canada is excluded, Ralph). I'm talking about the place where Paris is. Oh 'ya, I'll pass on the Renault too)

Japanese vehicles are not substantially more reliable at this mileage, and dont provide near the satisfaction, pride or enjoyment that their european and American counterparts do.

A good comparison... I would own a 2001 LS430 Utra Luxury because it has toys like the first heated and cooled seats, rear audio and climate controls in the fold down armrest, adaptive cruise control, a kick-ass navi system and a smooth motor. Thats about it, from an inspirational standpoint, it does nothing for me.

I would own a 2004 CTS-V for brute power and a little sprinkle of luxury thrown in, and the pride of owning a unique and deadly fast inspiring luxury sedan. Even if it breaks once in a while, Ill know that when its running its gonna reward me every damn minute my foot is on that pedal.

You are so right! Japanese cars are only really reliable when your like the 3rd owner and its 13 years old.

Imagine for a moment, your typical 84 year old female watching a televised basketball game. She'd have like zero interest in it, right?
Well..... I don't wanna offend anyone on here, and I am not trying to convert anyone, just stating MY feelings.....
Regarding cars made by companies with the heritage of those companies hailing from Korea, Japan or Germany, I have little to no interest or knowledge of them, and even less of a desire to learn about them, much like that 84 Y.O. woman watching the basketball game. What for? I'd never ever purchase one! Why do you think that I've only owned Imperials, Lincolns & Cadillacs ? 5 Imperials, 3 Lincolns & 3 Cadillacs over 40 years - or one appox. every 4 years. Much like the atmosphere between the country of France and America are chilly, my reasoning also finds its roots in politics.
So..... ___________________ (insert: BMW/M-B/Lexus/Infiniti/et. als.) can build a car miles better than anything GM or Ford makes, I'd be honored to then drive 2nd or 3rd or even 4th "best" .... (Canada is excluded, Ralph). I'm talking about the place where Paris is. Oh 'ya, I'll pass on the Renault too)

This is a respectable stance, but in a way, its almost like you are saying you will penalize yourself because you feel you have to honor the heritage and home of the vehicle that you are buying, rather than the worth and quality of the vehicle itself. Once again, that is totally respectable, but at the same time, I dont see people doing this with TV's (the overwhelming majority own Sony, Panasonic or Toshiba units, and even the American "classics" RCA and GE, are owned by a Korean company now), and I CERTAINLY Dont see someone who wants to spend more than 1000.00 a watch typically buy anything other than a swiss watch. In a way its like you wouldnt want to acknowledge that people in other countries even exist. :hmm:

You are so right! Japanese cars are only really reliable when your like the 3rd owner and its 13 years old.


I didnt mean that in a derogatory way. I still like alot of Japanese imports, particularly Infiniti and Lexus, I just like them for different reasons than American and German cars.

Well, the answer lies in YOUR reply.
(My watch is 14 years old, and cost $65.00 and keeps flawless time) - But regardless of that, let's say that I was going to spend $1,000 or $2,000 on a watch (NEVER) Oops, but anyhow, YES I'd have to buy an import. Why? Because, like the T.V. example, our manufacturers have been driven out of business by the foreign companies. Now, same reasoning, lets say everyone in America purchased ONLY foreign cars. (They are better - right?) So, our auto industry will go the way of our watch industry, our television industry, our clothing manufacturing industry, our radio and telephone manufacturing industry our our our...get the picture?
We don't even make FILM in this country any longer. I bought a roll of Kodak film for Thanksgiving. On the bottom of the box they had the nerve to print an American Flag, the size of a dime. Then under it in letters 1/3rd the size of these it said, "MADE IN JAPAN - BOXED IN AMERICA" ~ We are becoming a nation that BOXS while Japan MANUFACTURES!!
How many American Cars are left ? E-I-G-H-T !!

Cadillac / Buick / Pontiac / Chevrolet / Saturn / Lincoln / Mercury / Ford !!
Now, wanna count the Asian Cars?
Nissan / Toyota / Mitsubishi / Honda / Kia /Hyundai / Daewoo (that's who makes the Chevy Aveo) / Mazda / Lexus / Infiniti and others.......
Then the German cars.....
You see, our American Manufacturing is being chopped away. I refuse to take part in that, and have for decades felt that way.

Ian, I think there are only 2 American watch companies left, Timex and Armitron.

http://www.armitron.com

And from the american brand cars, a lot of them are made in other countries...

And from the american brand cars, a lot of them are made in other countries...

Like Canada, but remember, we buy over 50% of them back. ;)

http://adepssimius.is-a-geek.com:81/rob/ODO%20reading.JPG

Don't make em like they used to...

as far as I know Cadillac is the only car completely made in America and keeps major roots to Detroit. Chevys and all those are either made here or Canada and sometmies euro engineered or korean.

as far as I know Cadillac is the only car completely made in America and keeps major roots to Detroit. Chevys and all those are either made here or Canada and sometmies euro engineered or korean.

Mexico?

Almost every chevy truck is made in Mexico. Cept for mine, but thats because its 10 years old, and a rare model.

sorry I forgot Mexico, the Escalades dash is made there.

It's a world economy :o

sad thing is when ford does really bad the american economy suffers. So it's best to kinda support ford :annoyed:

But Canada is fine. We have 100% complete free trade with them and the imports/exports are closly matched. Righ as I type this I am munching Bachman's pretzels. On the bag it says "MADE IN CANADA" They by many cars made in the US and we buy Grand Marquis & Crown Vic made there. It's not the same.

Are you actually implying that we start a Forum just for bashing Cadillacs :confused: :suspense:

To be fair, we'll have one for the imports also then. :thumbsup:

No, we need to make a mini-forum where people can share their bad experiences with cars specifically pertaining to their craftsmanship. It's just that I see so many complaints, I think there ought to be a special corner for them.

Now, Ralph, as far as your references go. I have looked at them. And that's fine that their numbers show Cadillac on the same level or above the imports. If you want to believe in something, there will always be statistics to prove it. If you believe the Earth is flat, I am sure there is a scientific evidence for that too.

I am not being condescending by doing the "flat Earth" comparison. All I am saying is that look at this forum right here. Some dude from Russia wants to know where the reliability went, the other guy says his friend switch his limo service to Cadillacs and went back to Lincolns after having tripled the repair bills. We have people with names like NoMoreCadillacs for God's sake.

I have never seen the same on either Honda or Lexus forums. Yes, I have read stuff like "My Accord's door doesn't latch all the way in", or "LS 400 won't start", but NOTHING like what this thread says.

No disrespect Ralph, honestly, but who cares what some survey says if you need to go somewhere and your car, while eating a hole in your wallet and depreciating, doesn't start.

So, no, Ralph, I am not sanctifying Asian imports and bringing down Cadillac. After all, I did drive a Fleetwood with LT1 in it and the engine ran perfectly until 105000 when, as you know, it threw a rod.

But I do want to bring this to your particular and to this whole forum in general attention that Cadillacs got a bad and very well deserved stereotype. They are for old people, they depreciate, they break down. That's why the Vogues and Convertible tops on the 2005 STS, you know, the "sport sedan".

Just one more example, people. I used to have 1989 Ford Crown Victoria. AMERICAN CAR PEOPLE. We traded it in when it hit 160000 miles and guess what, power windows still worked and the cars still felt solid. True, transmission was redone at 120000 miles, and engine was tuned, but other then then, no major repairs vital to the car's mobility needed to be done.

My brother driver a 2000 Acura TL. It has 65000 miles. Regular maintenance is the only reason why that car was ever in the shop.

I hope you understand what I am driving at. :thumbsup:

Just buy a new Town Car and thank me later. There **IS** a reason all the limo companies swear by them. Low maintenance, ultra smooth ride, no rattles, and they will go 200,000 miles with proper care.

Prior to the demise of the RWD Fleetwood, the Lincoln was #2 dude. The Fleetwood was a far superior car, expecially in terms of long-term durability. The FWD Caddies are another story though. I would agree that the RWD Town Car is the better car as far as durability.

You are so right! Japanese cars are only really reliable when your like the 3rd owner and its 13 years old.

That's laughable dude.

as far as I know Cadillac is the only car completely made in America and keeps major roots to Detroit. Chevys and all those are either made here or Canada and sometmies euro engineered or korean.

Sorry dude, there's a high import content in Cadillac's just like any other car from American manufacturers these days.

You are right, but Cadillac is only engineered by Americans for teh most part except for the Catera.

"I have looked at them. And that's fine that their numbers show Cadillac on the same level or above the imports. If you want to believe in something, there will always be statistics to prove it. If you believe the Earth is flat, I am sure there is a scientific evidence for that too."

Yes but you could not find that kind of info proving the earth flat from anyone who knows what they are talking abnout JD power knows wthat they are talking about and are credible. Ralph does therefore not only believe but knows.

I am not defending the Town Car. Back from 1996 thru 2002 they had problems like many other cars, and the RWD Fleetwood was, indeed a better car. However, you are overlooking the fact that the 2003 was a totally new Town Car. Re-engineered suspension geometry, revised quicker steering ratio, Revised rear suspension, revised sound deadening materials, revised luggage area to 23 Cu Ft and all new door & window seals, as well as dual pane glass, thicker carpet, variable rate shocks and more. The roofline may look like 1998-2002 but that's where the similarties end. Sadly, Caddy dropped the RWD truly BIG Fleetwood after 1996, instead of re-designing it.
After 20 months of ownership, I have not had the slightest problem, not even need for adjustment.

You treat your cars with intense respect to Sandy

'Ya, I'll admit it, I need Car Lovers Annonymous!

"" My name is Sandy...Okay, well, Sanford, and you see, well, I am in love wiith my cars! They are like children to me. They have names! There's "Towniee" and Aubergine - the Caddy, but her nickname is "Aubiee" and of course, Jeepers. But Jeepers is away at college now, Jeepers will be home real soon. So....anyhow, I need help, as I love my cars and I protect them and guide them and love them, and have taught them not to splash in puddles or park too close to foregners.... I've been this way forever, and when they discontinued the Imperial, I put mine in the garage for years, and bought a used & tired Citation to run around in to protect the Imperial.
Please help be be normal, and take it to the car wash annually and eat, smoke my cigars and drink Slurpies in it, and park close to rusty Dodge pickips and forgive me for making those 20 year olds remove their soccor cleets and put them in my trunk on plastic wrap and have them hop on one leg to get into the car and ask them 5 times in 3 miles to keep their feet on the towels placed over the mat to protect the mat, while it's protecting the rug."

Give me guidance, oh wise one, honored driver of the green Plymouth Reliant.

I'd be glad to give you some simple insight but I don't own any Plymouth Reliant :confused: even though I have been in a Plymouth Grand Voyager :disappoin .

I to would never let muddy cleats in my car, no smoking cigars, slurpies are okay just don't spill.

Odds are you are not going to get dented, in all my life our cars have never been noticably dented or scuffed by the person we park next to. Except for my little acident with the STS and DeVille :crying2:

It's normal to name car :thumbsup: just my family always named them after their color and since we have had 3 white cars and 2 blues....

Blue, Blondie, whity, no name for honda, and Blue jr

Now, Ralph, as far as your references go. I have looked at them. And that's fine that their numbers show Cadillac on the same level or above the imports. If you want to believe in something, there will always be statistics to prove it. If you believe the Earth is flat, I am sure there is a scientific evidence for that too.


No disrespect Ralph, honestly, but who cares what some survey says if you need to go somewhere and your car, while eating a hole in your wallet and depreciating, doesn't start.

But I do want to bring this to your particular and to this whole forum in general attention that Cadillacs got a bad and very well deserved stereotype. They are for old people, they depreciate, they break down. That's why the Vogues and Convertible tops on the 2005 STS, you know, the "sport sedan".


The earth SEEMS flat until you go far enough then it curves. :D Or until you fall right off. :lildevil: We have pics from the space shuttle to prove the earth is round, and maybe it's a good thing JD Power didn't produce them. :p

Well, I believe there is merit to those quality surveys because they survey ACTUAL OWNERS, etc. I know that before I buy a new car I'm going to check them because I would like to know what I might be getting myself into. I also check the NHTSA website for safety and I don't believe they are worthless. Therefore I DO care what some survey says because I want to be armed with information about a model I might be interested in. What's the point of having them if they are not reliable? Is JD POWER just there to look good? I hope not! Without some reference to these sources, it is just your word against mine.

When Acuras get a better quality index from JD P. than Cadillac YOU will be citing them to me also, I'm sure.

You mention depreciation and the fact that Cadillacs have that disease. To be fair all cars have that problem, some when new, (Cadillac) and some when older. (Jap) I think if people started to open their minds to these surveys and see that Cadillac has their act together, that's the start to overcoming the false stereotype that Cadillacs somehow SHOULD depreciate more than the Honda or Acura, because they are as good or better RIGHT NOW. How long would Cadillac have to build the number one car in the world (for example) before the negative stereotype from the 1980's is gone??!! For some, obviously NEVER.

If Lexus was to turn to utter crap it would probably take about 5-10 years till you saw significant sales decline. I think the best advertisement is having your product run foreever and look good still so the Owner gets the car at say age 19 and when they are say 25 they have the money to buy a new car and they buy say a Cadillac cause when they were 19 their Cadillac was a good car to them. There are some bad JD power ratings on Lexus.

Face it, Cadillac is feeling the fruits of it's recent surge in popularity. Does that mean the cars are any better? I don't think it does but that's just me. Look at the vehicle that REALLY boosted Cadillac's street cred, the Escalade. It's not even a Cadillac! It's a tarted-up Chevy Tahoe, Avalanche, or Suburban depending what model you buy. Cadillac's popularity is owed in great part to the urban acceptance of the Chevy-built Escalade. People are fickle. A particular model car can have great sales without necessarily being a fine car, quality wise. All it must do is "appeal" to the market, and that's what Cadillac has managed to do recently. Unfortunately, that kind of success disappears as quickly as it appears, so Cadillac is in a rush right now to not only capitolize on it's popularity but, to introduce as much new product to their captive audience as possible in an effort to hold on to them.
Not bad for a vehicle that was only meant to be a stop-gap (the Escalade).

I believe the Escalade is really a GMC
Denali, yes or no ??

Cadillac is in a rush right now to not only capitolize on it's popularity but, to introduce as much new product to their captive audience as possible in an effort to hold on to them.


I hope you're wrong. I would rather they work on "perfecting" what they offer now instead of offering new models/options that bugs will have to be worked out, etc.

For the final push to be #1, I they should test, break, modify, re-test parts/components again and again until they don't break. Make what they have better.

The CTS is pure Cadillac (I hope :shhh: ) and they did quite well in JD Power in having fewer "Problems per hundred" than others.

The SRX has won many awards including best SUV of the year. To me, that does mean something. :thumbsup:

I believe the Escalade is really a GMC
Denali, yes or no ??

Order of evolution is;

1. Tahoe
2. Yukon
3. Escalade

They're all "basically" the same truck.

same truck different symbols. :thumbsup:

Different bodies between the sclade and the denali. The denali has a few different things from the Yukon. The Yukon and Tahoe are the same thing, different labels.

I'm glad I dont' care as much about scratches as I used to, now I can take them to cheerleader carwashes :) Well, only the ones with good looking girls that is...

Cadillacs got a bad and very well deserved stereotype. They are for old people, they depreciate, they break down.

I don't even know what to say is wrong with this statement first.

They're BETTER NOW, GET OVER IT! ;)

If Cadillacs are for old people I invite you to go to the CTS Forum and see just how many people over 60 actually drive them. They are definately geared to youth more than ever now.



"We have people with names like NoMoreCadillacs for God's sake."

Well, we also have members here with names like "Iluvmycaddy." So what's your point. :confused:

No disrespect intended.

Yea, not to be a jerk here lev, but if you continue to completely bash cadillacs, why do you stay?

My intent in posting this thread was not to simply "bash" Cadillac. I was merely writing to explain my departure from brand loyalty. My opinions are a direct result of my personal expeirences with Cadillac. I am well aware of Cadillacs broadend horizions and effort toward longevity. However; after owning several, each slightly more dissapointing than the last I tend to hold a slightly tainted view of the company as a whole. I do think Cadillac has lost something, wether they address the problem now or five years from now, nothing can reverse my convictions. Statistcs speak for the masses, I speak for mysef and as an individual I am apalled.

http://www.strategicvision.com/ -- The Deville tops the near-luxury segment. Sorry about your experiences. :(

Yea, not to be a jerk here lev, but if you continue to completely bash cadillacs, why do you stay?

Because I love the community and I actually give a shit. :)

And maybe I will buy a Cadillac later. Just not the one with the Northstar. :tisk:

Because there is a fine line between bashing Cadillacs and showing thier disadvantages.

Because the word luxury in a luxury car should also mean no threads like this one.

Because when you spend that much money on a piece of equipment, if better work flawlessly.

Because Ralph is actually cool, though he misunderstand what I am saying sometimes.

Lastly, because you, RBraczyk, keep posting in Current Issues, even though almost no one else agrees with you.

Got it? :thumbsup:

Because Ralph is actually cool


Likewise my friend. :)

My intent in posting this thread was not to simply "bash" Cadillac. I was merely writing to explain my departure from brand loyalty. My opinions are a direct result of my personal expeirences with Cadillac. I am well aware of Cadillacs broadend horizions and effort toward longevity. However; after owning several, each slightly more dissapointing than the last I tend to hold a slightly tainted view of the company as a whole. I do think Cadillac has lost something, wether they address the problem now or five years from now, nothing can reverse my convictions. Statistcs speak for the masses, I speak for mysef and as an individual I am apalled.


Buy a Fleetwood (93-96 model). they are much better than Devilles or anything. i think the Fleetwood has been the most sound car Cadillac has made. do me a favor, go look in the RWD Fleetwood section and look for problems that are costly and hard to repair. you wont find many. and you can throw them 22s on it and cruise. they fit perfectly. the Fleetwoods are the best IMO. (and not cause i own one but i have drove all kinds of Caddys)

oh and yeah Ralph is cool.

My intent in posting this thread was not to simply "bash" Cadillac. I was merely writing to explain my departure from brand loyalty. My opinions are a direct result of my personal expeirences with Cadillac. I am well aware of Cadillacs broadend horizions and effort toward longevity. However; after owning several, each slightly more dissapointing than the last I tend to hold a slightly tainted view of the company as a whole. I do think Cadillac has lost something, wether they address the problem now or five years from now, nothing can reverse my convictions. Statistcs speak for the masses, I speak for mysef and as an individual I am apalled.

I'm just curious about a few things. These used Caddies you've had, were they all high mileage when you bought them? We are all taking a chance with used vehicles and anger will be greater with used because of a lack of warrenty IMO.

Did you have a competant mechanic go over them BEFORE you bought them?

Did you go on extended testdrives before you bought?

Did you buy them from a dealership or private sale. Usually you get some warrenty with a dealership sale, and that's some piece of mind even if it's 3 months or so. (My Grand Marquis had a 3 month warrenty from the Mercury dealership but I bitched about problems and it was extended to 6 months!)

Just curious. I think it is too soon to judge and classify ALL the new Cadillacs as lemon-like because we don't know yet.

So what will you buy next?

oh and yeah Ralph is cool.

And those are just the avatars! ;)

Ralph is cool :bouncy: Natasha is well :p :bouncy: :D

I have cometo a belief that the world is not perfect and that cars have flaws no matter what.
be back to post more later

Here's the problem - as I see it !

I do respect his right to his opinion; his right to dislike Cadillac; and his right to express such on this forum, after all, this is not Russia, nor do we want it to be. Freedom of speech reigns.

The problem is.....
Years ago, when I was growing up, if you got discusted with Cadillac, you went to either Lincoln or Imperial. If you began with Imperial (as did I) and there were reasons to switch, you went to Cadillac or Lincoln. Same is true if you began with Lincoln and later went "looking" ~
BUT............
Today, the money & manufacturing and economic boost immediately goes to a foreign company. Yes, that's because there are so many many MORE foreign luxury cars, than there are American. Imperial's gone, leaving just two.

So......the unhappy migrate to Mercedes or Lexus or Audi or Jaguar or Infiniti or BMW or Porsche or Saab or Volvo or Acura or another and once again a foreign corporation scores ONE and an American Corporation losses one.

.... and that's sad for all of us :crybaby:

Here's the problem - as I see it !

I do respect his right to his opinion; he right to dislike Cadillac; and his right to express such on this forum, after all, this is not Russia, nor do we want it to be. Freeedom of speech reigns.


No one ever said he doesn't have the right to say it, and he should be respected, but he should also expect some questions about his statement.

If Cadillacs are so terrible I want to know if I have one. I also want to know if other factors can be blamed besides the name CADILLAC.

Also, his 2000 DHS was a first year production car with a new style that year. We all know what they say about what CAN happen with those.

It's my understanding that even two cars of the same make and model with identical options can have differeing problems with repairs, etc.

I will write my opinion of Cadillac later, but in the mean time, i noticed Sandy's comment:

So......the unhappy migrate to Mercedes or Lexus or Audi or Jaguar or Infiniti or BMW or Porsche or Saab or Volvo or Acura or another and once again a foreign corporation scores ONE and an American Corporation losses one.

If you look at it that way. Since everything is so "globalized" now, that statement isn't *completely* true. For example, that high class luxary Mercedes you buy, might actually be made in Tuscaloosa, Alabama. Thats right, Alabama. The guy who made your M class probably doesn't even have teeth. (sorry, sorry, i know :p - that was a cheapshot). And your BMW Z3 probably comes from Spartanburg, SC. Your Honda Accord probably comes from Marysville, OH. Your Nissan comes from Smyrna, TN. Your Toyota comes from Georgetown, KY. Etcetera, Etcetera.

Since these are all *technically* American companies (e.x. Honda of America Mfg., Inc.), does an american corporation REALLY lose?

They are NOT American companies!! You and the masses have been hoodwinked by them, and very successfully I add. They are FOREIGN CORPORATIONS, DOING BUSINESS IN AMERICA. There's a great big fat difference!! McDonalds opened in Tokyo, matter of fact, they opened a few places. Do you think for a moment the average Japanese consumer views McDonalds as an Asian corporation ?? They use food products sourced in Japan, and Japanese hosts & workers & cooks. The huge profits those Foreign Corporation make HERE go back to Japan and then the Corporations buy up the prime of the prime American Real Estate. Sony owns Rockerfeller Center in NYC and Pebble Beach Golf in California, and blocks upon block of prime New York City Real Estate!! The ONLY reason that they ever bought land here & built cars here is to fly under radar inacted by Pres. Reagan who tried in vain to put a stop to the flooding of foreign cars intro America in the 1980s by putting caps on imports. So, they came here to build them.
Coffee Tyme ;)
PS/ America is NOT allowed to buy land in Japan. They say "our soil is our soil and cannot be a foreign companies soil.....
That said, let's pretend they sold GM a big hunk of land and GM began producing Impalas there. Do you think the Japanese would think as do you, in that Impalas are Asian cars??? Of course not!

If you look at it that way. Since everything is so "globalized" now, that statement isn't *completely* true. For example, that high class luxary Mercedes you buy, might actually be made in Tuscaloosa, Alabama. Mfg., Inc.), does an american corporation REALLY lose?

Do you really believe that if everyone bought a Mercedes for the next month or so, and NO ONE bought a Cadillac, that Cadillac wouldn't suffer!!?? The whole economy would suffer. Cadillac would have to lay off all it's salesmen, managers, mechanics, dealerships would close, auto parts manufacturers would have to lay off thousands! THAT ALONE would be detrimental to the economy in a very negative way. Then, because these laid off workers can't buy anything, inflation increases because the economy is stagnating, etc.

The world may be globalized, but it's NOT THAT globalized! There is still a lot of money going overseas when you buy a Toyota.

A Toyota that is "Made in America" does not mean all the profits STAY in America.

Do you really believe that if everyone bought a Mercedes for the next month or so, and NO ONE bought a Cadillac, that Cadillac wouldn't suffer!!?? The whole economy would suffer. Cadillac would have to lay off all it's salesmen, managers, mechanics, dealerships would close, auto parts manufacturers would have to lay off thousands! THAT ALONE would be detrimental to the economy in a very negative way. Then, because these laid off workers can't buy anything, inflation increases because the economy is stagnating, etc.

The world may be globalized, but it's NOT THAT globalized! There is still a lot of money going overseas when you buy a Toyota.

You are only thinking dealersips and "Cadillac" and I assume GM. What about OUR glass manufacturing corporations? American Steel Companies and Plastic and fiberglass etc etc. What about the closing of dealerships and abandoned properties, i.e. real estate. How about American Trucking?? The trucking industry??? 250,000 less Cadillacs to be trucked to dealers? So, So very much more !!

The smaller dollars in the company like Toyota are here adn then the big bucks go back to Japan. I am glad the imports came along because it's making American cars better. Buying a GM car affects the DowJones more than a toyota or honda, unless bought used.

You are only thinking dealersips and "Cadillac" and I assume GM. What about OUR glass manufacturing corporations? American Steel Companies and Plastic and fiberglass etc etc. What about the closing of dealerships and abandoned properties, i.e. real estate. How about American Trucking?? The trucking industry??? 250,000 less Cadillacs to be trucked to dealers? So, So very much more !!

Absolutely correct!!!! There is so much more that would be affected negatively by this type of thinking and purchasing.

Same applies to Ford.

How about the restaurant and food industry? Unemployed people cannot afford to consume as much as they could before, etc. Restaurants suffer. How about the technology and computer industry? Technology industry suffers. Don't cars use those too? Laid off workers would have to sell their homes. The list goes on and on.....

This type of action/thinking would put North America in a major economic crisis IMO!

Do you think Japan or Germany cares if we have more people on Welfare to feed? No! They only care if we buy their cars so they make profit.

Everyone go out and buy a Timex or an Armitron watch! ;) Support YOUR local economy directly. Forget that nice Swiss Rolex.

True, when Ford does bad it hurts us all :annoyed:

One of the saddest things I posted a while ago. I'll repeat it.

In every country of the world that produces cars, one of their own, is the top seller, except America ! (and) We wonder why the ecenomic turn down, the lay offs the lack of growrh ?

Germany: Volkswagon
France: Renault
Sweeden: Volvo
England: (I had said Jaguar, but later found out I was wrong!) English Ford
Italy: Fiat
Japan: Toyota
Checzk: Skoda
America? Toyota

Remeber.... there are only 8 American cars left !! Japan knows. Do You ???

One of the saddest things I posted a while ago. I'll repeat it.

In every country of the world that produces cars, one of their own, is the top seller, except America ! (and) We wonder why the ecenomic turn down, the lay offs the lack of growrh ?

Germany: Volkswagon
France: Renault
Sweeden: Volvo
England: (I had said Jaguar, but later found out I was wrong!) English Ford
Italy: Fiat
Japan: Toyota
Checzk: Skoda
America? Toyota

Remeber.... there are only 8 American cars left !! Japan knows. Do You ???

Sandy THE MAN! Pullin' no punches. :want: We make a good tag team LOL! Majax can be our water boy. :D :shhh: j/k!!

GM is the biggest car company in the world. Toyota is second

Cadi
Buick
Saab
Saturn
Hummer
chev
opel
holden
isuzu
and a few more

Ford
Volvo
Land Rover
Merc
and more

thats 8+(not to bad), BUY AMERICAN

You mean Gas Boy/Jiffy Lube Boy cause we are talkin about cars ;)

GM is the biggest car company in the world. Toyota is second

Cadi
Buick
Saab
Saturn
Hummer
chev
opel
holden
isuzu
and a few more

Ford
Volvo
Land Rover
Merc
and more

thats 8+(not to bad), BUY AMERICAN

You mean Gas Boy/Jiffy Lube Boy cause we are talkin about cars ;)

I think GM was called the largest corporation in the world, aren't they?

maybe that to, I just know biggest car comp, I will check it out. Toyota is kinda catching up and GM is getting pissed so they are uppin it of course. "gotta have products," Gary Cowger.

Ralph I got some of my broshures in the mail., really cool.

Ralph I got some of my broshures in the mail., really cool.

No "Vision" though? No worry, when I get the extra in the mail I'll let you know. :)

I guess U.S. Postal service is faster than Canada Post!! :rant2: We ordered at the same time!

GM being so large is worse when they have to lay off because MORE would be laid off than other companies.

I guess we do know our duty of buying American/Canadian.

"In the wake of the September 11 terrorist attacks and a White House-sponsored industry summit focused on nationwide economy recovery, General Motors announces its unprecedented "Keep America Rolling" zero-percent retail-marketing program. The program proves to be a major boost to both the auto industry and the US economy, with GM vehicle sales increasing 31 percent in just the first month of the program."

http://www.freep.com/money/business/fort9_20010209.htm

thats a little dated though.

I guess we do know our duty of buying American/Canadian.

"In the wake of the September 11 terrorist attacks and a White House-sponsored industry summit focused on nationwide economy recovery, General Motors announces its unprecedented "Keep America Rolling" zero-percent retail-marketing program. The program proves to be a major boost to both the auto industry and the US economy, with GM vehicle sales increasing 31 percent in just the first month of the program."

We had that too and. In fact some American car companies still offer 0 % financing because of it. I don't recall imports offering the low rates.

I remember Bush saying "go out and buy something!"



From Yahoo:


Fortune 500 companies are among the biggest, most profitable, and most powerful companies in America. We're talking serious blue-chips with vast holdings, like Exxon Mobil (ranked #1 on the Fortune 500 for 2001), General Electric (#5), and Philip Morris (#10). Talk about profits -- the top company on the list made over $210 billion in revenues! But even the bottom end of the Fortune 500 list isn't too shabby. Newspaper conglomerate Knight-Ridder (ranked #499) and wireless technology company Qualcomm (#500) pulled in over $3 billion each. That's still a respectable sum, especially in a weak economy.

While the Fortune 500 is limited to American companies, the magazine also publishes the Global 500, which ranks publicly held companies from around the world. Of course, because the U.S. dominates so much of the global economy, many Fortune 500 companies rank high in the Global 500 too. In fact, the first four Global 500 companies of 2001 are the exact same as in the Fortune 500. At #5, the German-American hybrid, DaimlerChrysler, is the first company on the list not based in the U.S.

I'll let you in on a little secret. :shhh: European cars break down too. :yup:


Where's that "Ralph's whoop stick" smilie I've been looking for? :hitstick:

Hmmm... sold my 1994 Eldorado to buy my wife a 2001 Dodge Stratus R/T. I was psyched about this purchase as my 1996 Dodge Intrepid (I only pay cash for cars... no loans! The bank can bend me over for mortgages only) bought used at 79,000 miles has given me 50,000 miles of luxurious and dependable driving for 2 years. And I mean, that car has NEVER ever broken down, failed to start, or cost me more than 150 dollars to fix a worn bushing or two. My 1994 Eldorado was the best driving, most powerful car I've ever owned. Again, no problems outside of what I knew was normal for the car considering the age and mileage.

That 2001 Stratus R/T is really a Mitsubishi Eclipse in diguise. Of course it would have been nice to know that. A 200hp 3.0L V6 engine that sounds like a jet turbine with a chicken caught in the intake. "Scrreeeeeeeeee!" -shift- "Screeeeeaaaah!" It's loud and obnoxious. When I talk on the cell phone, I'm constantly asked to close the window, even though it is closed, due to the road noise that filters into the car. The suspension is a mix between soft and al dente, the seats are cheap leather coated stones. The carpet is similar to the astroturf I have in my three season porch. The sunroof stopped working and the dealer doesn't know why, even after a 1-hour diagnostic. Same with the factory amplifier and system. I had to bypass the amplifier (with is working as it should, according to the dealer) to fix the sound system. The timing belt has needed to be replaced 3 times in 70,000 miles. The clutch has been done twice.

Now what about those reliable foreign cars? Oh, but it's just my experience you say, don't castrate the entire foreign automotive industry because my bad experience?

I have driven a few hundred miles in my boss's Infinity G35... great car, great design, great engineering. But I'll tell you what, I'd take a 1994 Eldorado over that, hands down. Day in. Day out.

I buy used cars knowing I will eventually have to invest money into them. Sometimes (as with the Stratus) a lot. That's life. If I wasn't willing to do this, I'd buy a brand new car and opt not to invest money into add-ons, accessories, and mods.

that was touching.

right here

sold my 1994 Eldorado to buy my wife a 2001 Dodge Stratus R/T. I was psyched about this purchase as my 1996 Dodge Intrepid (I only pay cash for cars... no loans! The bank can bend me over for mortgages only) bought used at 79,000 miles has given me 50,000 miles of luxurious and dependable driving for 2 years. And I mean, that car has NEVER ever broken down, failed to start, or cost me more than 150 dollars to fix a worn bushing or two. My 1994 Eldorado was the best driving, most powerful car I've ever owned. Again, no problems outside of what I knew was normal for the car considering the age and mileage.


Too bad she didn't want the Eldo! ;) That was a nice blue one if I recall and some of us tried to convince you to keep it. :D

Yeah, it was light blue... i've only seen one other DeVille that color before. You know what the worst part is, Ralph?!?! The guy that bought is a business acquaintance of mine. He bought the car and he keeps it a small hotel he owns 2 miles from my house! And his annoying Canadian business partner drives it around, and then complains how 'big' it is. For the love of all things holy!!!!! And she's Quebecois! Yeeaarrgghh! (in my best Howard Dean impersonation) :banghead:

The point of all of this bashing is, i think :hmm: , that the people who buy Japanese cars and German cars (consistantly I might add) have pretty good reasons.

Because, i mean, why wouldn't you want to support your nation's economy?

Everyone does; everyone would like to buy American, but if the big three make lackluster cars like (a few off the top of my head) the Chevy Cavalier, Chevette, Cadillac Eldorado (1986 edition :crying: ), etc., then you really don't have a choice when Honda and Toyota make cars that, GASP!, don't require you go to the shop for anything besides maintainance. :rolleyes:

And think about this: if it wasn't for the imports, U.S. automakers would still be making really bad cars (i mean from the 80s/90s). Luckily for us, they've taken notice. So the awful Cavalier gets replaced with a COBALT. The awful Mustang FINALLY looks decent (for the 2005 model). Cadillac FINALLY introduces some cars that people (besides old people i mean) are interested in buying new. Last but not least, Pontiac finally just revamps the lineup with the G6 and GTO.

But American still can't compete with the Japs (as far as economy cars go). The Japanese economy cars have something that the Americans don't: they are fun to drive, they look good, and they are reliable (not matter WHAT JD powers says Ralph).

And she's Quebecois!

Ahhh yes, the French. Is there anything they DON'T complain about. :devil:

(I can say that, I'm half French.) :drinker

A '94 eldorado is not big at all this person must be a munchkin. So you are driving a '94 Eldorado now, still?

Ahhh yes, the French. Is there anything they DON'T complain about. :devil:

(I can say that, I'm half French.) :drinker
No wonder you are so horny about Natasha ;)

haha sorry!!! j/k

The point of all of this bashing is,

I KNEW IT!!!!! SHAME!!!! :tisk:

No wonder you are so horny about Natasha ;)

haha sorry!!! j/k

But she's not French! :devil:

Everyone does; everyone would like to buy American

:hmm:

But she's not French! :devil:

I was just calling the French amerous.

Ben, A chevy cobalt is just as fun to drive as a Civic I bet! Also a Cobalt is more comfortable like a VW Jetta.

Toyota make cars that, GASP!, don't require you go to the shop for anything besides maintainance. :rolleyes:



2004
RECALL: Toyota vehicles with defective parts
Dow Jones / South Florida Sun-Sentinel
November 18 200

NEW YORK --Toyota Motor Corp. is recalling a total of 544,172 vehicles in 12 models, including the Prius and the Vitz, for replacement of defective parts, Japan's transport ministry said Thursday, Kyodo News Service reports.

The brake lights in the vehicles, manufactured between January 1999 and August this year, could fail to work due to faulty switches, the biggest Japanese automaker said in a report to Japan's Ministry of Land, Infrastructure and Transport.

The vehicles could also fail to operate as a result of defective fuel pumps, Kyodo said.

The 12 models include the Corolla Fielder, the Raum, the Estima Hybrid and the Harrier (Highlander / Lexus RX 330) as well.





Toyota Japan Recalls 176,372 Cars
TOKYO September 15, 2004: Japan Today reported that Toyota Motor Corp said Tuesday it will recall a total of 176,372 automobiles in four models to fix their braking systems.

Subject to the recall are the Funcargo and bB minivans, Celica sports car and MR-S convertible sports car made between July 1999 and July 2000, Toyota said in a report to the Ministry of Land, Infrastructure and Transport.







Toyota Recalls 92,577 Celicas

WASHINGTON (AP) - Toyota Motor Corp. is recalling 92,577 Celica cars because their daytime running lights are too bright and could be a hazard to oncoming drivers, federal regulators said Wednesday.

The recall affects Celicas from the 2000 and 2001 model years. Dealers will repair the vehicles for free beginning in March, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration said.





Honda Recalls Accord Airbags

The 2004-2005 Honda Accord is being recalled for driver-airbag problems. Some 257,616 Accords are being brought back because their airbags could tear on deployment, leaving occupants without adequate protection in a crash. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) says at least one person has claimed an injury due to the defect. Free repairs will be available from Dec. 6, Reuters reports.

http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=7774&sid=173&n=156




July 27, 2004
Toyota is recalling 128,316 Camry sedans because the side airbags may not inflate properly. The company says there have been no reports of injuries. The defect was discovered by a supplier.

The recall includes Camry sedans from model years 2002-2004 equipped with optional side airbags. The company said that improper assembly caused some bags to become twisted. That could mean that, in a crash, the bad would not inflate fast enough to prevent injury.




Make : HONDA Model : CR-V Year : 2005
Manufacturer : AMERICAN HONDA MOTOR CO.
NHTSA CAMPAIGN ID Number : 04V526000 Recall Date : NOV 04, 2004
Component: AIR BAGS:SIDE/WINDOW
Potential Number Of Units Affected : 6976

Summary:
ON CERTAIN PASSENGER VEHICLES, THE OCCUPANT POSITION DETECTION SYSTEM'S
SIDE SENSOR IS NOT INSTALLED IN THE CORRECT POSITION AND MAY FAIL TO SHUT
OFF THE PASSENGER'S SIDE IMPACT AIRBAG IF THE OCCUPANT IS OUT-OF-POSITION.

Consequence:
IN THE EVENT OF A CRASH, SUCH AN OUT-OF POSITION OCCUPANT MAY BE INJURED
BY A DEPLOYING SIDE AIRBAG.




NHTSA investigates Toyota minivan fires.
December 3, 2001

The NHTSA opened an investigation on the 2002 Toyota Sienna minivans after reports of fires in the engine compartment surfaced. Small children had to be evacuated from the vans after they began without warning. The Toyotas have not yet been recalled as the investigation looks into the auto defect.

Toyota continues using Firestone tires.
July 23, 2001

Toyota has continued to use Firestone tires despite talk of a recall. Firestone recalled 6.5 million tires in August 2000 after tire blowouts and tread separations led to dozens of fatal accidents.

Toyota Camrys have been recalled.
March 12, 2001

Toyota has recalled more than 50,000 Camrys because of a defect in the accelerator cable housing that affects the 1998-2001 models.

Well Ralph we cannot forget that GM cars have had lots of recals this year but also remember this was the biggest year for recals ever! I do not call a recall a quality issue unless someone died because of it and the company did not get word out early enough or hid the problem like fords suspension or teh durangos ball bearing or the Pinto.

Imports not haveing to go to shop was though a major overstatement. I cannot believe it but my Baptist pastor in Miltonfreewater bought a Toyota Sienna and it ended up with the sludge problem. I was talking to him and he was like you knew this I wish you would have been with me 6 months ago when i bought it, lol.

The Cobalts may have their running lights to bright GM is investigating.

Well Ralph we cannot forget that GM cars have had lots of recals

That's not what Ben said, he said Toyotas aren't in for ANYTHING but maintenance.......

It's ok Ben, I guess these reports mean NOTHING because they are LESS credible than JD Power. :thumbsup:

and he is full of it :want:

yeah those facts are no more true than the falseness of the world being flat.

We all know the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety :rolleyes2 knows nothing ;)

Now the National Inquirerer thats the truth!

GM is more aggressive at finding and issuing recalls than other manufacturers. They use different and looser criteria for what warrants a recall.

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/manufacturers.htm

No Cadillacs! not even under GM

Type in Toyota complaints and you get more sites dedicated to toyota complaints than you do if you type in Cadillac complaints. You just get web pages about the Northstar oil issue, stuff thats not a mechanicle issue majorly. :hmm:

www.yahoo.com

Seems like "maintenance" is the last concern on Lori's mind.

Lori of Nashville writes (7/18/01):
I got into my '94 Toyota Corolla and pushed in the clutch and turned the ignition and the airbag exploded. I have contacted Toyota serveral times with no resolution. They will not give me names of anyone in the region or the phone numbers or addresses. They keep telling me someone will call me back. This happened on July 12 and I called them on July 13 and it is now the 18th going on 19th and nothing.

This car was involved in a recall that they have record of fixing on 9/12/96 but yet the incident occurred and now Toyota is saying they are not responsible until someone inspects the car and makes that determination.I cant get anyone to look at it or even anyone that can tell me anything to get back with me. Recall #95-C-71. This is a serious matter. I could have been killed.

I was physically injured. Visible brusing and abrasions to my face, neck jaw and arm. This was by far the most horrible thing I have been through. I now have no car and Toyota won't provide me a car because they say it's not their fault. I have missed work due to pain and doctors appointment, not to metion I can't chew my food because of my jaw. I have a 5-year-old who depends solely on me. I am faced with finding a way to work every morning and home in the afternoons along with a way to daycare to pick up my child.This has been a nightmare and I cant get anyone to help me. State Farm says there is nothing they can do for me because it is a manufacturer problem.

Lori should waste no more time calling Toyota. She should immediately consult a personal injury attorney and initiate a lawsuit against Toyota for her injuries, including the pain and suffering she has endured.

Earl of New Orleans (4/1/01):
On Christmas Eve, 2000, I was involved in an accident where a drunk driver ran a stop sign and I hit him broadside. I have a 1998 Avalon and the airbags did not deploy. The extent of the damage is up to $12,000. We requested Toyota to look into this. It took them one month to visit the car. Once they visited, the outcome was that the impact was not sufficient to deploy the airbags and they would send a report. This was in January 2001 and have not received this report as yet.

I have not read barely any of those stories about Cadillac but I have read many about Toyota. They are intersting and upsetting.

I do know 3 people who love thier Camrys. Why do these things happen to some people and not to others they are all the same car it just obles my mind!

3:33 AM

It appears that Ralph fell asleep at the keyboard, head resting on the monitor!
Hey....Ralph.....WAKE UP

3:33 AM

It appears that Ralph fell asleep at the keyboard, head resting on the monitor!
Hey....Ralph.....WAKE UP

I've noticed that when you log-out, your name still stays in the "Who's online" area (or Current Users area) for about a half an hour.

Now, that said, that might explain why my face sometimes looks like the alphabet! :rolleyes2

Everyone does; everyone would like to buy American, but if the big three make lackluster cars like (a few off the top of my head) the Chevy Cavalier, Chevette, Cadillac Eldorado (1986 edition :crying: ), etc., then you really don't have a choice when Honda and Toyota make cars that, GASP!, don't require you go to the shop for anything besides maintainance. :rolleyes: ...

But American still can't compete with the Japs (as far as economy cars go). The Japanese economy cars have something that the Americans don't: they are fun to drive, they look good, and they are reliable (not matter WHAT JD powers says Ralph).

This is the problem. The mentality of many people is still stuck in the 80s and early 90s when it was true that Japanese cars were for the mostpart better. Doesn't matter to these people what the situation is now. JD Power and associates know more than you think you know, they study cars as their job.

Who screwd up at GM in the 80s?

Or maybe it was just the fact that cars were no longer big tanks of steel but evolving into todays car and that process proved hard to GM. I guess with companies like honda they really started going during this revolution they did not have to change what they were making GM though did have to change its ways. :hmm:

The point of all of this bashing is, i think :hmm: , that the people who buy Japanese cars and German cars (consistantly I might add) have pretty good reasons.

Because, i mean, why wouldn't you want to support your nation's economy?



This is the smartest thing anyone in this entire topic has said.

I guess im selfish to want the finest vehicle my money can buy regardless of where it came from... (and I know alot of PROUD current and former members of our military who swear by their foriegn made vehicles, and I certainly will not be questioning their devotion to their country.)

Ive said it once and Ill say it again. I buy and evaluate vehicles based on individual merit NOT on where they came from, or who made them. Heres a few major highlights of what I mean.

Cars I consider worthwhile...

Sandy :D knows I love the 03+ Town Car

I love the 2001-2003 LS430

I like the new Audi A8L V12 (Yes, an Audi, traditionally a nightmare vehicle, this one is showing some promise)

I love the new C6 Corvette (a MAJOR leap in interior ergonomics and quality, congratulations GM)

I love the 2000-01 740iL

ANY BMW 3 Series

I love the 2003-04 Mercedes E55AMG

I love the 2003+ Range Rover

Im nuts about the CTS-V

I love the Cadillac Fleetwood

I love the Cadillac Escalade

I love the Dodge RAM SRT-10 Quad Cab

The Cadillac CTS, getting better all the time

The 2003+ Lincoln LS

Cars I woudnt touch with a ten foot pole for reliability issues, piss poor build quality, recalls, failed manufacturer set expectations and other reasons (some of these which really hurt because from a distance I love a few of them)...

Lincoln 1988-1994 Continental

Cadillac SRX

Mercedes 2000 to current S-Class

BMW new 7 Series and pre-2000 7 Series.

Lexus IS300

1996-2005 Ford Taurus

Cadillac XLR (still in the somewhat undecided category).

MOST Pre-Ford Jaguars, and the X Type

Mitsubishi ANYTHING.

I know that this view will make many here disgusted with me...but The point of that wide and varied list is...Bottom line... different cars have strengths, and different cars have weaknesses (and ALL of the cars above have SOME level of problems/recalls, the important thing is differentiating which are real problems for the money spent, and on which ones the overall vehicle experience outweighs the problems), if more American than import cars have weaknesses, there is nothing I can do about that than unashamedly point it out because I will drive what I like and feel is good value for my hard earned AMERICAN dollar, not what im influenced to buy because the yuppies like it, or because Im being a bad American by not buying it.

(BTW... Im willing to put money on Mitsubishi's complete demise in the car industry by 2007 or 8. But buy their bigscreens, they are the best in the industry!! :) )

I should also note... that if you primarily purchase your vehicles used (as I do), and even moreso if out of warranty, the argument of American vs. Import becomes somewhat null as my dollars are no longer really going back to the original manufacturer unless of course... the car is constantly getting fixed with manufacturer supplied parts...

I think that you should reconsider the Mitsubishi Diamante. My neighbor bought one new in 2001 and has driven it from New Jersey to California and back 2 times, the car has over 50,000 miles on it in 3 years and looks as good as "Day-1" when he brought it home. Problems? A rear door lock that would not repond to the activation of the power door lock switch, and a headlamp that blew out when the car was like a month old. That's been it. I've been in it and it's truly a great performing car and a good looking car ! I can't speak or address any other Mitsus, as he's they only person I know who has one. Car is dealer serviced and he's also in love with the dealer!
I think the Diamante is a great car for $29,000.

The guy behind me, on the other hand, just bought a leftover 2003 CTS for cheap cheap to get out of his 3-Series BMW after it stranded him for the 5th time between 5 and 40 miles from home, and his driver side door hinge was factory installed crooked, and the door never closed right and she leaked oil all over his "white" (concrete) driveway.
Talk to him, about BMWs !!!! :tisk:

I think that you should reconsider the Mitsubishi Diamante. My neighbor bought one new in 2001 and has driven it from New Jersey to California and back 2 times, the car has over 50,000 miles on it in 3 years and looks as good as "Day-1" when he brought it home. Problems? A rear door lock that would not repond to the activation of the power door lock switch, and a headlamp that blew out when the car was like a month old. That's been it. I've been in it and it's truly a great performing car and a good looking car ! I can't speak or address any other Mitsus, as he's they only person I know who has one. Car is dealer serviced and he's also in love with the dealer!
I think the Diamante is a great car for $29,000.

The guy behind me, on the other hand, just bought a leftover 2003 CTS for cheap cheap to get out of his 3-Series BMW after it stranded him for the 5th time between 5 and 40 miles from home, and his driver side door hinge was factory installed crooked, and the door never closed right and she leaked oil all over his "white" (concrete) driveway.
Talk to him, about BMWs !!!! :tisk:

Yea, I dont know much about the Mitsu's, never really paid attention to them other than their financial standings and credit fumbles (no payments for a year). I used to like the Diamante WAAAY back in the day, but I havent been in one in ALONG time. Its probably a wonderful car, but they still are not selling well. The only car that currently makes a name for Mitsu is really the Lancer Evolution. Theyve supposedly got some fresh new stuff coming down the line, but I doubt highly it will generate enough buzz and interest to save them completely, but I could be, and hope Im wrong for their sake.

On the CTS, I mean, its like everything else. There are good ones and bad ones, I know of a guy I was reading last night in our own CTS forum who got rid of his CTS to buy a Lexus GX470 due to problems... I mean what is that?! CTS to GX470? Not even the same class of vehicle! But he didnt like the CTS due to many problems, so every car will have an example of a poor experience I think.

I always stayed away from mitsubishi , for some reason they were never able to design an engine that wouldnt burn so much oil it looked like a 2 stroke after 70k...

Just last night the neibors 3.0 liter lebaron (mitsu engine) turned into a 6 cylander oil pump ....Granted i hadnt seen the car in months , he says its been doing that for awhile and its getting worse every day ....from the looks of it its a 1.5 quart a day car ... not just the mitsu 3 litre but the 2 litres and just about every other engine they made doesnt hold up to the test of time...

Another nail in mitsu's coffin is the original late 80s Hyundai Excell , remeber that heap ? It was a rebadged Mitsu Precis ...Once hyundai made there own engine and there own car quality shot up , ill by a 04 tiburon 4cyl before i buy an 04 eclipse 4 cyl (or six)

Another nail in mitsu's coffin is the original late 80s Hyundai Excell , remeber that heap ? It was a rebadged Mitsu Precis ...Once hyundai made there own engine and there own car quality shot up , ill by a 04 tiburon 4cyl before i buy an 04 eclipse 4 cyl (or six)

WAIT A MINUTE!! THE EXCEL WAS A MITSUBISHI PRECIS?? I thought it was the OTHER way around... That is CRAZY! Was the Mitsu Precis truly Japanese then? Or was Mitsu manufacturing in Korea then? Interesting for sure, my mom had a 93 Excel that lost its tranny at 30k miles or so, dealer luckily replaced it for her after she pleaded with them, but it was a nasty experience.

nope huyndai bought them from mitsubishi ...

Not unlike when sansoyoung inked a deal with nissan to buy maximas and bage them as there own ......Typical for a korean comapny to use a japanese mark to gain a foothold in the US......

Daewoo and kia however did it diffrently , Daewoo produced cars and engines for GM long before they attemtped anf failed in the US (edit: they ran holden built engines in nubria and leganza), kia produced ford aspires before there attempt but when it came time to sell therre own they used reskinned mazda 323s for there Sephia and mazda miata engines for there sportage .......

I guess im selfish to want the finest vehicle my money can buy regardless of where it came from...


Even if it costs thousands of jobs in North America? We've already discussed just some of the effects for the economy. One may be as patriotic as anybody, but the effects on economy cannot be disregarded.

Even driving a used import is money going overseas because of the manufacturer's parts as you mentioned. True, some parts are made here, but that money could have gone to a domestic producer and used for improving quality, etc.

It's great to want quality, more power to you and that's what freedom is about, but it's also great that there are a few American cars left for the choice.

I'll take an XLR ANYDAY over ANY import, and NOT be terrifyied of quality, reslae value, or if I look cool enough for the street.

(BTW... Im willing to put money on Mitsubishi's complete demise in the car industry by 2007 or 8. But buy their bigscreens, they are the best in the industry!! :) )


Mitsubishi has been in trouble for some time now but I don't think this will happen! Why? you say.....

The Japanese are a very proud people and HATE failure! The Japanese government would be much too proud and avoid that shame at all costs, therefore I think the Japanese government would step in at the last minute and bail them out.

Mitsubishi has been in trouble for some time now but I don't think this will happen! Why? you say.....

The Japanese are a very proud people and HATE failure! The Japanese government would be much too proud and avoid that shame at all costs, therefore I think the Japanese government would step in at the last minute and bail them out.


Sounds alot like the US and late 70s early 80s Chrysler to me ...

as Arlo Guthrie once said "Im changing my name to Chrysler"

if more American than import cars have weaknesses, there is nothing I can do about that

AGAIN, these assumptions, and this a statement based on PERSONAL beliefs. With the possible exception of Lexus, this statement is very subjective.

When quality surveys and data (of the majority, from owners) prove me wrong, I'll be the first to acknowledge it!

People, however, are NOT willing on this thread to even acknowledge the good name of JD Power, etc. and that sickens me. (not directed at you Ian)

If we cannot base our buying choices on information gathered by the likes of auto magazines, car reviews, Car Connection.com website, Jd Power, NHTSA, etc., etc. what's the point of even having them then??!! Are they not respected? I mean, anybody can buy what they want, but some people look to greater information sources than what their neighbour says to help along their future decisions, etc.

True, car magazines offer personal evaluations based on personal opinion, and experience, etc. They are allso based on comparison, but the quality index surveys hold much more respect IMO because they are based on a greater sample of the population of owners for a specific model. How can this be ignored?!

Sounds alot like the US and late 70s early 80s Chrysler to me ...


I also remember (1979) seeing the news clips of angry laid off autoworkers running down the streets overturning and burning ANY import car they happened upon. Times were scary indeed, especially if you have to worry about feeding your family.

The point of all of this bashing is, i think :hmm: , that the people who buy Japanese cars and German cars (consistantly I might add) have pretty good reasons.

Because, i mean, why wouldn't you want to support your nation's economy?


So, by this logic then, it's better (and acceptable) to actually abandon YOUR NATION'S ECONOMY because some people, including yourself have some issues down the road with your domestic automobile??

My car has a rattle :crying:

My tranny blew out at 150,000 miles :crying:

The new Mercedes Benz look much nicer :crying:

My neighbour has a Jag and I have to look good! :crying:

That's no real excuse to put thousands of people in your economy out of work! :tisk:

Stop you whinning and support your economy. If you can "bash" I can rebuttle, and you can take it like a big boy.

You'll never get me to feel sorry for any out of work auto workers. They're all a bunch of over-paid whiners. Typical union workers. :rolleyes:

over-paid whiners. Typical union workers. :rolleyes:

Well, that's very true, but I'm sure you'll agree there are consequences down the road.

First off, Jags are problem havens.

One think that cannot be disputed, is that german/european cars are 10x more expensive to fix than domestics.

On the other hand, some domestics are very unreliable, and japanese cars have a pretty good reliablility record.

It all comes down to what you like.

japanese cars have a pretty good reliablility record.





Not ALL would agree, see my point?! If we can ALL agree that ALL cars CAN have problems, that's the first step! I DO NOT tolerate BASHING on any level, this is, after all a CADILLAC FORUM! The original post was about a USED CAR.

I may have problems with my Caddy in the future, but you won't find me BASHING the NAME!


Gregory of Lilburn GA (1/29/02):
1998 Toyota Sienna van properly maintained with extended (to 100K) bumper-to-bumper warranty (have 61K). Engine sludge causing oil burn-off. Since I did not bring in van to Toyota dealership for oil changes between 40K and 60K miles but had it done elsewhere, Toyota will not honor warranty. Furthermore, to have an engine go bad at 60K miles is ridiculous.

I have had several American-made cars lasting well into the 100,000 and 200,000 mile range. This is my first Toyota and my last. The van had a short in the rear AC when we picked it up from the dealership. Two weeks later we had to have the brakes replaced (an ongoing problem with this vehicle). The horn works only sporadically, the light for the dashboard clock usually dims to the point where you cannot see it after driving for 10 miles. The dashboard lights are going out since 50K and sliding doors appear to make noises when the van is in motion. Every time our van has been in to be looked at for these problems they have not been adequately fixed. Now Stone Mountain Toyota has the unmitigated gall to tell me that Toyota will not fix me engine because the maintenance wasn't performed at a Toyota service center.

This so-called well-made vehicle has already cost us an estimated $2500 in repairs and maintenance. If we have to carry the burden of repairing or replacing this engine, it will be another $2500 to $3000.




Dale of Houston (12/18/01):
1999 Camry with 23,500 miles, all service performed (only once at Toyota dealership). They say I have sludge in engine and not covered by warranty because service not done at Toyota. The manual does not call for service to be done at Toyota. I have receipts.

Verbally quoted a price of $3,300 to repair. Since I need my car, I decided to have them do repairs and follow up later with Toyota to try to get reimbursement. I insisted on a written estimate on a Friday and had to call three times, the last being a Monday morning prior to finally receiving an estimate in writing at approximately noon on Monday. The written estimate was for $6,700.

I can get an entire new engine for less than that and I was outraged and told them I would just come pick up my car. They said they would have to charge me to put it back together and I told them I never authorized the work without the written estimate. They sent an estimate to me of $2,400 just to put it back together without doing any work. This is a typical bait and switch. Had I not asked for a written estimate, they would have just presented me with a $6,700 bill when I went to pick up the car.




Carla of Falls Church, VA, writes:
The engine of my 1997 Toyota Rav4 exploded while my family and I were driving from Virginia to New York City. The car was well-maintained, had plenty of clean oil and showed no signs that anything was wrong with the engine or any other part of the car.

We heard a very loud noise inside the car and had to stop abruptly while smoke came out and the oil spilled all over the place. There was a significant hole on the engine and broken pieces of the engine on the machinery. The Rav4 was towed by the authorized Staten Island Highway Towing company and placed in their lot while we went and rented a car.

Since the car is still under warranty Toyota will replace the damaged part -- only the downblock, not the entire engine. The cause of the explosion is unknown but the mechanic said it could be a weak engine.

I must say, over the past 10 years, there is a downtrend of car quality, worldwide.

.

The 2004 was the last, Plydrv4me, there is no 2005, but hre's a photo for you, of one of the last '04s

http://www.wheelsdirect2u.com/newimages/2003-mitsubishi-diamante.jpg




Yea, I dont know much about the Mitsu's, never really paid attention to them other than their financial standings and credit fumbles (no payments for a year). I used to like the Diamante WAAAY back in the day, but I havent been in one in ALONG time. Its probably a wonderful car, but they still are not selling well. The only car that currently makes a name for Mitsu is really the Lancer Evolution. Theyve supposedly got some fresh new stuff coming down the line, but I doubt highly it will generate enough buzz and interest to save them completely, but I could be, and hope Im wrong for their sake.

On the CTS, I mean, its like everything else. There are good ones and bad ones, I know of a guy I was reading last night in our own CTS forum who got rid of his CTS to buy a Lexus GX470 due to problems... I mean what is that?! CTS to GX470? Not even the same class of vehicle! But he didnt like the CTS due to many problems, so every car will have an example of a poor experience I think.

So, by this logic then, it's better (and acceptable) to actually abandon YOUR NATION'S ECONOMY because some people, including yourself have some issues down the road with your domestic automobile??
My dear Canuck, Sandy: I am sorry, but I disagree with you guys.
One of the best aspects of capitalism is that promotes improvement. Offer a better product or be eliminated. Why do you think the american companies started to improve the quality of their cars? The stereotypes from the 80's did not appear out of the blue, they are the result of real events. The American car industry changed for the better in part because of them, and you can see the results now.
Do you want to make sure the quality standard keeps up?
Don't buy your car based on stereotypes or "Detroit or die" blind nationalism, that would only harm the same industry you want to protect.

Offer a better product or be eliminated.

Oh, you mean like what Bill Gates did with Microsoft??? Wasn't there some competition somewhere? ;)

I almost bought a Honda 1.5 years ago when I was offered a great price for my Caddy. I'm personally glad I never sold, but if I do buy a new car today, it will be one of the last remaining American namesakes so that I hope the money is re-invested back into the North American economy.

I don't appreciate admitted Cadillac "bashers" who are hit and run posters here on this thread.

No one ever said Cadillacs don't have problems, just don't get high and mighty thinking the imports are significantly better because the evidence points otherwise! GOT IT!

Offer a better product or be eliminated.

You talk about "Detroit or Die" mentality, but isn't YOUR statement here implying Cadillac should bow down and die because only Lexus makes a better car?! Same mentality :hmm:

I will support Cadillac in their quest to becomming number 1, which may happen whether you and I believe it could or not.

I am sorry, but I disagree with you guys.

What exactly are you disagreeing with?! I have no problem with capitalism or some competition because it also helps to keep prices realistic, etc.

You talk about "Detroit or Die" mentality, but isn't YOUR statement here implying Cadillac should bow down and die because only Lexus makes a better car?! Same mentality :hmm:

I will support Cadillac in their quest to becomming number 1, which may happen whether you and I believe it could or not.
Ralph, the best way to discuss something is keeping a cold head.:cool: I never said or implied cadillac should "bow down", but the opposite: it has to produce a better option than other luxury car companies in order to prevail. That way both company and consumer win. Hell, the whole economy is based on that.
:yup:

What exactly are you dusagreeing with?! I have no problem with capitalism or some competition because it also helps to keep prices realistic, etc.
I disagree with the idea that buying from a foreign brand is going against your nation's economy, or viceversa.

Ralph, the best way to discuss something is keeping a cold head.:cool: I never said or implied cadillac should "bow down", but the opposite: it has to produce a better option than other luxury car companies in order to prevail. That way both company and consumer win. Hell, the whole economy is based on that.
:yup:

Oh, my heads cold Dude, all I have to do is stick it out the window,

and don't YOU think Cadillac/Lincoln have offered competitive options with the likes of Night Vision, Rainsense, Keyless Go, Heads-up display, Adaptive cruise control, power trunk closure, etc. etc.

The problem with people on this thread is that they cannot seem to acknowledge the ADVANCEMENTS American car companies have made. They keep looking at the 1980's, despite the new numbers, evidence, etc.

I am tired of unfounded logic in the statements here that despite ALL THIS, implying the Japanese make a "significantly" better automobile! I don't know how many times I can say that.

We can go in circles ALL YOU WANT!

I disagree with the idea that buying from a foreign brand is going against your nation's economy, or viceversa.

It is irrevalent really because even I know and accept that there will always be people who buy nothing but imports. If you don't think that has impact on the economy, guess again my friend.

I disagree with the idea that buying from a foreign brand is going