: Transmission Fluid ? (When Cold)



SevillianSTS
06-23-12, 11:55 PM
I have about 700 miles on the new transmission; and it shifts so much better than before. I feel a positive engagement into each shift gate now; as dealer stated, old one was shot.

Question is...
Now that I can feel what is going on, I have noticed that when the trans fluid is cold, the shifter feels more notchy, once it warms up, shifts VERY smooth, problem is... my daily drive to work is about 6 miles, trans never warms up.

Is this going to be the same regardless the fluid I use ? or have you guys actually felt a difference (when cold) by changing to a different fluid ?
I was thinking of sticking with the GM fluid, and just changing it on a consistent basis.

Also, when would you recommend changing the fluid after break in ?

darkman
06-24-12, 12:12 PM
I would change the fluid after break-in.

My transmission has always felt a bit notchy until warm and I have noticed no difference with several different brands of fluid, including one fill with Dextron 6 which is lower viscosity. (When Dex6 came out there was some confusion whether to use it Dex3 Tremecs. Ultimately GM went back to Dex3 for Dex3 Tremecs.)

I consider the notchiness when cold a good thing because it reminds me not to shower down on the throttle until it is completely warmed up. Spun bearings in the engine can result from full throttle on a cold motor and our differentials are entirely dependent on "splash lubrication" which does not happen until the fiuid is warm.

JDB
06-24-12, 04:05 PM
Definitely feels smoother with M1 ATF synthetic over OEM.

Take they long way home...get things up to temp.

SevillianSTS
06-24-12, 10:17 PM
Take they long way home...get things up to temp.

:thumbsup: Every once in a while I take the scenic route home.


I'm questioning the M1 ATF... thats what I put in the old trans, I believe now as that look back, I think my trans came with the issues already started, and they got progressively worse in the 8k miles I put on it. Final complaint to dealer was the reverse grind (unless I went to 1st, first) I figured needed a reverse syncro; nope... whole new tranny. Main shaft had score marks on it, little plastic cage that held some rollers was broke, and lots of shavings... probably from the reverse grinding and poping out of gear, and reverse syncro had a TON of slop in it.
One thing probably led to another...

Anyways... I figured I would stick with the GM fluid

Anyone else have any advise regarding the M1 ATF ? Is it a DEX3 or 4 fluid ?

Also is break-in 1000 miles ?

darkman
06-24-12, 10:34 PM
I would change the fluid at 1,000 miles, and would assume it is broken in by then. The original break-in on the car was 500 miles.

Mobil 1 ATF is Dex3, but they make a Dex6 also (blue bottle).


See also: http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/c66-racing-amsoil-direct-dealer/160653-amsoil-tranny-fluid-recommendation.html

SevillianSTS
06-24-12, 10:50 PM
Darkman... what fluid do you use now ?

darkman
06-24-12, 11:03 PM
Darkman... what fluid do you use now ?

AMSOIL Torque Drive ATD. I purchase through C66 Racing because they have supported this forum for years.

SevillianSTS
06-24-12, 11:23 PM
Last ? :)

Whats the difference between Amsoil Torque Drive, and the Amsoil Synthetic Multi Vehicle Fluid ?

darkman
06-24-12, 11:47 PM
Last ? :)

Whats the difference between Amsoil Torque Drive, and the Amsoil Synthetic Multi Vehicle Fluid ?

A detailed explanation is in the thread/post I referenced in post number 5, above. The Torque-Drive has a higher viscosity (Dex3 specifications) than the Multi Vehicle Fluid, which is designed to Dex6 specifications.

SevillianSTS
06-25-12, 12:05 AM
oops, missed that link :thepan:

Thanks for your advise, I may end up giving ATD a try...

M5eater
06-25-12, 10:21 AM
I searched around for a good couple of hours regarding this question.

The shelby guys (who have used the T56 and TR6060) have specificly asked TCC(the manufacturer of the T56 and TR6060) this question, ultimately several responses from TCC have suggested that Mercon V is usable in these transmissions, but that it's not ideal. Plain(NON synthetic), dino Dexron III is what provides the best shift qualities for the TR6060(and by extension the TR56).

TCC also suggest on their own mantiance and service manual that you do NOT mix fluids(at all) in the T56 and TR6060.


Mobil 1 ATF is Dex3, but they make a Dex6 also (blue bottle).


the MVF M1 ATF is a mercon V fluid that 'meets or exceeds' dexron 3 specifications. Chemically, M1 ATF is not the same as Dexron 3, Mobil says that you can simply use it in place of Dexron III. There's a VOA that compares M1 ATF to the GM MTX and Transfercase Dexron III fluid over on BITOG and another ATF fluid(I forget which) they're not the same. The viscosity is similar, but that's it. That's not to suggest that you shouldn't or can't use it (I almost did) Ford's service TSB's specificly state to use Mercon V for mantiance intervules. However, T56's and TR6060's in the new Mustangs come FF with the same Texaco 1866 Dexron III as the GM TR6060's do. I'll leave it up to you to decide whether their use of mercon V is because of the outrageous-ness of stocking a GM product and using a slightly less-than-ideal product made by Ford. Or because it's acutally better. Remember that GM's still makes a Dexron III equivilent fluid for their own trans oil fluid changes though.

The bottom line is this;
The T56 and TR6060 are based on the 1992 T56 purchased from borg warner 20 years ago. The TR6060 is updated yes, but we're talking about a tight tolernace transmission designed back when these fluids were popular, and the T56 in 92 is praticaly identical to the ones in the 04-07 CTS-V. If TCC continues to advise to use cheap Dexron III in light of significant improvements in ATF fluids over the years, that's pretty substantial evidence right there. .


Also, when would you recommend changing the fluid after break in ?
For a rebuilt transmission absolutely. As suggested, 1000 miles is a good target.

For a brand new transmission, I have yet to research this fully. I've seen one seemingly knowledable transmission rebuilder over @ LS1 Tech reccomend 5K before chaning the oil to let the parts wear in to each other, however clearly very few people change MTX fluid early, and clearly they still run just fine for 100Ks of miles.

C66 Racing
06-30-12, 01:46 PM
Last ? :)

Whats the difference between Amsoil Torque Drive, and the Amsoil Synthetic Multi Vehicle Fluid ?

That's a good question. Here's the background. I switched to AMSOIL in 04 and at the time they recommended the ATF for the Tremec - used it in my Vette at the track without problem for about three years and put it in my CTS-V in 07 as well. About 07 when GM discontinued Dexron III (the spec for our Tremec's at the time) and came out with Dexron VI, AMSOIL lowered the viscosity of the ATF in an attempt to meet both Dexron III and VI specs. I queried them on this and they took a hard look at their tranny fluid lineup. They ended up putting the ATF back at its original Dexron III viscosity, came out with a new low viscosity ATF for the Dexron VI market (the ATL), and they evaluated and decided that the Torque Drive was the better fluid for the Tremec. I switched both my Vette and CTS-V to the Torque Drive and have been using it for about 5 years now - no problems, and noting I sold the CTS-V in late 09 when I moved to DC.

The difference is minor. Viscosity is similar. Biggest difference is the viscosity modifiers; the Torque Drive has none whereas the ATF has some to meet the multiple specs the ATF meets. With no viscosity modifiers the Torque Drive is totally shear resistant in the high demands of our trannies. That said, the ATF is pretty shear resistant as well. I had the stock Dexron III in my CTS-V tested at 10k miles and it had lost about 25-40% of its initial viscosity and was low out of grade for Dexron III. I tested the ATF at 7k miles (when I changed the ATF to the Torque Drive) and it had lost zero viscosity.

So, the better fluid for your tranny is the Torque Drive. The difference is minor. AMSOIL recommends both with the Torque Drive being the primary recommendation.
AMSOIL Torque-Drive Synthetic Transmission Fluid (http://www.c66racing-synthetics.com/Product%20Bulletins/ATDPB.htm) (Product Code ATD1G)

FYI, AMSOIL's other two ATF fluids:
AMSOIL Multi-Vehicle ATF (http://www.c66racing-synthetics.com/Product%20Bulletins/ATFPB.htm) (Product Code ATFQT) (primarily for Dexron III automatic applications)
AMSOIL Low Viscosity Universal Automatic Transmission Fluid (ATL) (http://www.c66racing-synthetics.com/Product%20Bulletins/ATLPB.htm) (Product Code ATLQT) (primarily for Dexron VI automatic applications)

More than happy to get AMSOIL products for forum members at dealer wholesale pricing, about 25% below retail, via the AMSOIL Preferred Customer Program (http://www.c66racing-synthetics.com/Preferredcustomer.htm). Drop me a PM if interested. :cheers: