: First production run new model concerns?



AtlantaGuy00
06-12-12, 01:54 AM
I'm seriously considering buying an ATS 3.6 di when the dealer receives inventory this summer. However I'm concerned about buying a brand new model before any bugs are worked out, particularly on it's first production run. This will be my 5 th Cadillac. All the others were DeVilles and a DTS which had been in production for awhile. Should I have any serious concern regarding defects? Is this engine auto trans combo proven sufficiently by the CTS'? I know there is the possibility of some warranty issues and you all can't peer into the future, but any advise? Do any of you have experience with new model Cadillacs which might be a predictor of what to expect?

rand49er
06-12-12, 10:22 AM
There have always been concerns with first-year car models, but car makers are getting better at minimizing them. Even though the '03 CTS paved the way, the '04 CTS-V had some issues (radiators, batteries, NAV buttons, wheelhop, diffs, ...) that were particular to the V model. The 3.6 motor has been around long enough that I shouldn't expect much of a problem there; not sure which AT trans it's using, but our '12 SRX has a 6-spd mated with the 3.6 so there's some experience there.

There's always something that'll be the weak link somewhere.

HansK
06-12-12, 10:39 AM
I think they will have learned from all the CTS problems and hopefully they won't create too many new ones. Maybe the first run CTS was out of the ordinary for Cadillac, but in the first year of ownership my CTS spent more time in the shop than every vehicle I have owned since I was 16 combined. Granted; none of those problems were huge, they were just annoyances but it's all in the details in a luxury vehicle. I probably wouldn't have even bothered taking other cars back to the dealer to have some of those 'little problems' fixed, but since I have a higher expectation (and rightfully so) of Cadillac, I did.

Just to sum it up- Yes, there will be problems. Lots of people here have had problems with early model adoption but I doubt they will be major or prevent you from enjoying the car. They will annoy you and upset you when they come up but are readily forgotten, especially if you'll only keep the car a few years.

Edit: I lern type gooder

Lord Cadillac
06-12-12, 01:39 PM
In my personal opinion - I feel the first generation ATS will be a much better built car than the first generation CTS. I think there will be a few minor issues here and there but that's a small price to pay to be one of the first people to have a new car.

JimmyH
06-13-12, 02:20 PM
Powertrain is what should concern you most with a new model. If you are only looking at the V6, then you are looking at a very mature powertrain. I think timing chain issues are all in the past. And that 6-speed is about as stout a tranny as you will find on the open market. My understanding is that the transaxle unit in our Enclave has the same guts as the longitudinal unit in the CTS, and we have nary a problem in 60000 hard-driven city miles.

Now, on the other hand, if you are considering Cue....I'd wait.

bmcleod
06-13-12, 11:08 PM
I have the first generation 2003 CTS, it will be 10 in September. I had some of the common problems, but only one I'd considered "serious", the Cam timing sensor. It stopped the car dead (actually it wouldn't start), had to be towed to the dealer. It was quickly fixed under warranty as were the lesser problems, but if I'd been out of town or it happened late at night I'd have been pissed. As it was I was at work and 10 minutes from the dealer. I've also had to replace (myself), 2 window regulators and an antenna amplifier - but the friendly and helpful people in this forum posted the procedures that made those relatively easy. All that said I've enjoyed my CTS more than any car I've owned and am considering replacing it with a first gen ATS (including CUE - its a computer with software, if it needs fixing upload a fix).

Jesda
06-26-12, 01:31 PM
Well, that's what the new car warranty is for. Dont sweat it.

Now if I was buying used, I'd avoid year 1.

DG2
07-05-12, 01:50 PM
Any first year model regardless of brand will have "gremlins". As long ad you understand that and are ok then go for it ! After all , you have an amazing bumper to bumper warranty

I purchased first year and one of the first run Buick Enclave. Some gizmo gremlins at first but then no problems till we hit around 47,000. Tranny shot My warranty paid in full of course and she rain better then new.

concorso
07-05-12, 10:06 PM
I'm seriously considering buying an ATS 3.6 di when the dealer receives inventory this summer. However I'm concerned about buying a brand new model before any bugs are worked out, particularly on it's first production run. This will be my 5 th Cadillac. All the others were DeVilles and a DTS which had been in production for awhile. Should I have any serious concern regarding defects? Is this engine auto trans combo proven sufficiently by the CTS'? I know there is the possibility of some warranty issues and you all can't peer into the future, but any advise? Do any of you have experience with new model Cadillacs which might be a predictor of what to expect?Its my understanding itll be next summer (2013) before we see the 3.6L or 2.0T...or at least the beginning of '13.
Id assume the same transmissions that are in the CTS (Aisin AY6 for the manuals, 6L50 for the autos...though Id bet 6L45 for the base engine.

Dad7159
07-05-12, 11:20 PM
Here we go. Where did you get that info?

concorso
07-06-12, 11:17 AM
Which info? The assumption? :) Its a safe assumption tho... The 3.6L DI is allready mated to the 6L50 in the CTS. Id bet the 2.0T will get the same trans instead of the weaker 6L45...GM knows this car will be the 'tuner' model until the V arrives. Im guessing again that the 2.5L will get the 6L45E, the 6L50 would be overkill. The Aisin is the the manual that was available with the 3.6L DI before it was dropped.
Also, FWIR, GM has allready said the 2.5L would be the only engine available for the first few months...

No inside knowledge here...

JimmyH
07-06-12, 12:38 PM
Most information around the web points to the fact the ATS is only going to be available with the 2.5L initially. I would bet concorso is correct.

AtlantaGuy00
07-06-12, 05:43 PM
The 3.6 won't be available for months after they start shipping the 2.5's!!! ??? Now that just sucks. I'll loose my love for a new car purchase if they don't deliver the one I want in a reasonable time.... If I wanted something puney like the 2.5 I'd look at Hyundais.

DG2
07-06-12, 05:49 PM
It's nearly 2013 come on, you have to roll out two much anticipated models with more then just 1 engine choice. Zzzzzzz. Also, you can really tick off owners who buy first year models to only find out the following year will have more engine choices.

AtlantaGuy00
07-06-12, 08:10 PM
So..... I chatted with an Atlanta dealer a few weeks ago and they told me their first shipment would be the 3.6 models.... Then today, after I read this, i chatted with the Cadillac people and they said that the 3.6 models were not going to be in the first run, that they would in fact be several months behind. WTF! They are building the rentals first! I read somewhere that Toyota can build several different models simultaniously on the same line... for example, a Camry and Corolla can be produced at the same time in a modern factory. Looks like GM is still not in the 21st century with manufacturning. And we wonder why the are forever in financial trouble.

DG2
07-06-12, 09:52 PM
So..... I chatted with an Atlanta dealer a few weeks ago and they told me their first shipment would be the 3.6 models.... Then today, after I read this, i chatted with the Cadillac people and they said that the 3.6 models were not going to be in the first run, that they would in fact be several months behind. WTF! They are building the rentals first! I read somewhere that Toyota can build several different models simultaniously on the same line... for example, a Camry and Corolla can be produced at the same time in a modern factory. Looks like GM is still not in the 21st century with manufacturning. And we wonder why the are forever in financial trouble.

Not true. GM definitely builds multi models on the same line. Also, the ATS going to rental fleets ?? If someone at dealer told you that I would highly doubt it.

DG2
07-06-12, 09:56 PM
One more thing Atlanta. No offense but my brother was told by two different Cadillac dealers that his brand new 2012 top of line CTS coupe had no memory seats. One of the salesman was such an idiot GE even said " how would the car know where you want the seat to be ". No joke. Hence, take with grain of salt unless you really know your speaking with a true pro.

AtlantaGuy00
07-07-12, 01:16 AM
Well my comment about the Rental cars was intended as sarcasm. I'm just really bummed to learn that I'm going to have to wait months longer. Now I'm wondering if I should start looking at the CTS'. But, I don't really need a car now so I could wait.

DG2
07-07-12, 11:11 AM
Well my comment about the Rental cars was intended as sarcasm. I'm just really bummed to learn that I'm going to have to wait months longer. Now I'm wondering if I should start looking at the CTS'. But, I don't really need a car now so I could wait.

Glad to hear. Scared me for a second

AtlantaGuy00
09-22-12, 11:55 AM
I took delivery of my ATS Thursday afternoon and drove it to work on Friday. It got stuck in neutral and so I had to have it towed to a dealer on it's first day out with 59 miles on it. Turns out that at the factory the didn't attach a shifter cable properly. I love the car, and Cadillac roadside assistance took care of everything quickly. The dealer had my back on the road within a hour of getting the car in the shop. The whole ordeal only took about 3 hours.97746

rage2021
09-22-12, 01:48 PM
ekk glad it was quick but wtf i hope this doesnt keep propping up with factory defects..could be a big blow to the new cars

danscrim
09-22-12, 03:52 PM
I took delivery of my ATS Thursday afternoon and drove it to work on Friday. It got stuck in neutral and so I had to have it towed to a dealer on it's first day out with 59 miles on it. Turns out that at the factory the didn't attach a shifter cable properly. I love the car, and Cadillac roadside assistance took care of everything quickly. The dealer had my back on the road within a hour of getting the car in the shop. The whole ordeal only took about 3 hours.97746


ahhhhh. that's terrifying. mine should be arriving in a few weeks here. glad to hear you still love the car!

AtlantaGuy00
09-22-12, 05:59 PM
Yeah I'm hoping that was the "bug". The dealer checked it out and said everything else looks ok but really how would they know. I have a good feeling that this was/ is the only major problem. I'm thinking that mine was one of the first manufactured and the "new guy" just forgot to do that!

AtlantaGuy00
09-22-12, 06:11 PM
BTW the dealer that I had the car towed to was shocked that an ATS was being towed in. Everyone from the service department swarmed around it like it was a science experiment. They were really great about it espicially since I didn't buy the car from them (the sales guys were P.O'd to see another dealers tag on it) but I do all my service work from that dealer so the service guys all know me by name. But they were mortified that an ATS was being towed in.

rage2021
09-22-12, 06:38 PM
yeah..not good news definitely this early on. come on Detroit!!

DG2
09-22-12, 08:33 PM
This needs to be perfect UAW !!!!

JimmyH
09-22-12, 08:47 PM
Umm...wasn't it the $100k all new BMW 7-series that was shutting off in the middle of highways a couple years ago?

DG2
09-22-12, 08:55 PM
We all know there can always be a gremlin in any brand especially first year.

JimmyH
09-22-12, 09:03 PM
My point is that gm has less a history of catastrophic culpas than BMW or Toyota.

Atswatcher
09-22-12, 09:47 PM
Well BMW just stopped all M5 and M6 deliveries, and asked those already took delivery not to drive them, something about oil pumps.

Having said that, gear stuck in neutral? How often does that happen?

DG2
09-22-12, 09:59 PM
Very minor problem and glad to see he received outstanding and fast service

Fraggy
09-23-12, 01:51 AM
Well BMW just stopped all M5 and M6 deliveries, and asked those already took delivery not to drive them, something about oil pumps.

Having said that, gear stuck in neutral? How often does that happen?

I just read that on E90 post. Crazy. It must be a serious issue.

Cuest
09-23-12, 12:25 PM
Well, I was at the dealership yesterday (9-22-2012) and I test drove a 3.6L with Cue and Nav.
I thought my CTS handle well but this ATS is amazing! The interior feels superior than my CTS, seats have better support, steering wheel is smaller too, stitching and even closing the doors felt really nice but the back seat space is really really tight. Everything about the car just felt very premium.

However, this is where i feel Cadillac may have a problem with new buyers or buyers from the competition (BMW, Audi, Benz) looking to possibly leave.
When I arrived at the dealership I was greeted by a manager which then got a sales man to help me. It was a terrible experience. I mentioned to the salesman
that I was interested in a black or grey with black or the red interior. He said he had a red one if I would consider it. I said no, "black or Grey" but would like to test
drive the red one if it had the 3.6 luxury with Cue and Nav as I will be making my purchase soon. The salesman wasn't personable, friendly, informative, and even lacked conversation.

So we go out on the test drive and there is complete silence. I was like "WTF" at least try to sell me the car. So I started to comment on the car how good the seats were, how smooth it drives, etc. I got nothing from the salesman. A little nod and thats it. I asked if it came with fog lights he said no. So I asked can they be added. He said yes but they would have to be ordered. Very short dry answers like he was bothered. Then silence again. I test drove the car on the highway for 20min. Upon arriving back at the dealership, I wanted to check out CUE, look over the car, see the trunk, etc. Nope. Nothing. I had barely shut off the car when the salesman was already walking away. Again I was like WTF? He goes inside sits in his desk. Now I walk in and look around and see him sitting at his desk. So I ask, I'm sorry if I wasn't clear I would like to see the rest of the car. He looks at me and kind of put off and gets
another salesman. This salesman ask me when am I looking to purchase. I said within a week or two at most. So he ask me the same questions as to what I was looking for. I gave him the same story and that I wanted to check out the car fully. He asked me about down payment, if I would consider the red one I test drove, asked me if I would be willing to put a deposit, then asked my what kind of car I drive. WTF? All I want is to drive it, check it out, see if CUE is worth it, etc. At the end since I was not willing to purchase it that day, he said he could not help me. The story is longer but I'm sure you get what I'm saying.

At the end of the day I was very upset on how I was treated, the salesman disregard for what I wanted and needed. While the car drove great and was definitely a treat, I left very unsatisfied and thus was a terrible Cadillac experience. Would I still buy the ATS? Yes, because I love my CTS and the ATS is an even better car. But what about others that are looking at Cadillac for the first time. This is where Cadillac has a REAL problem.

DG2
09-23-12, 12:41 PM
No, you just went to a bad dealership ! These guys work on commission. He should have been all over you. I am in sales management and unfortunately there are great sales reps and lousy ones. You got a lously one

Fraggy
09-23-12, 12:44 PM
I am very happy with the Cadillac experience I had. I'm two separate visits, I dealt two different sales people, and both were very courteous patient and polite. They both freely offered test drives and seemed very excited about the car. I have to say though I have had the same negative experience you had both at BMW dealerships and that Mercedes dealership.

bmw2caddy
09-23-12, 01:24 PM
I'm coming from BMW and so far my experience with Cadillac dealerships/salesmen has been great. Sound like you got a lousy salesman.

JimmyH
09-23-12, 03:04 PM
Well, I was at the dealership yesterday (9-22-2012) and I test drove a 3.6L with Cue and Nav.
I thought my CTS handle well but this ATS is amazing! The interior feels superior than my CTS, seats have better support, steering wheel is smaller too, stitching and even closing the doors felt really nice but the back seat space is really really tight. Everything about the car just felt very premium.

However, this is where i feel Cadillac may have a problem with new buyers or buyers from the competition (BMW, Audi, Benz) looking to possibly leave.
When I arrived at the dealership I was greeted by a manager which then got a sales man to help me. It was a terrible experience. I mentioned to the salesman
that I was interested in a black or grey with black or the red interior. He said he had a red one if I would consider it. I said no, "black or Grey" but would like to test
drive the red one if it had the 3.6 luxury with Cue and Nav as I will be making my purchase soon. The salesman wasn't personable, friendly, informative, and even lacked conversation.

So we go out on the test drive and there is complete silence. I was like "WTF" at least try to sell me the car. So I started to comment on the car how good the seats were, how smooth it drives, etc. I got nothing from the salesman. A little nod and thats it. I asked if it came with fog lights he said no. So I asked can they be added. He said yes but they would have to be ordered. Very short dry answers like he was bothered. Then silence again. I test drove the car on the highway for 20min. Upon arriving back at the dealership, I wanted to check out CUE, look over the car, see the trunk, etc. Nope. Nothing. I had barely shut off the car when the salesman was already walking away. Again I was like WTF? He goes inside sits in his desk. Now I walk in and look around and see him sitting at his desk. So I ask, I'm sorry if I wasn't clear I would like to see the rest of the car. He looks at me and kind of put off and gets
another salesman. This salesman ask me when am I looking to purchase. I said within a week or two at most. So he ask me the same questions as to what I was looking for. I gave him the same story and that I wanted to check out the car fully. He asked me about down payment, if I would consider the red one I test drove, asked me if I would be willing to put a deposit, then asked my what kind of car I drive. WTF? All I want is to drive it, check it out, see if CUE is worth it, etc. At the end since I was not willing to purchase it that day, he said he could not help me. The story is longer but I'm sure you get what I'm saying.

At the end of the day I was very upset on how I was treated, the salesman disregard for what I wanted and needed. While the car drove great and was definitely a treat, I left very unsatisfied and thus was a terrible Cadillac experience. Would I still buy the ATS? Yes, because I love my CTS and the ATS is an even better car. But what about others that are looking at Cadillac for the first time. This is where Cadillac has a REAL problem.


Doesnt sound that bad. I would take that over a salesman yapping away at me. The last car I test drove, the guy wouldn't stop talking. It was driving me crazy.

also, the ATS just came out, and it's possible they are getting all kinds of window shoppers, who were probably driving him crazy.

But then, I don't care about the sales experience. I am more interested in how the service department handles things.

AtlantaGuy00
09-23-12, 07:19 PM
Well, took the car out on a decent road trip today. From Atlanta through the N. GA mountians and back around. Great mix of city, mountian and open road rual highways and interstates. After 170 miles round trip the car performed amazingly. In fact it performed better than expected. I even got to smoke a truck AND a big lumbering RV on a two lane road (yes at the same time). In fact I had to back off because the 321 horses launched the car so fast that I was going to overshoot the spot I wanted to put the car in. I'm a happy man today.

BEarle
09-23-12, 09:21 PM
That's funny is sounds like the Cadillac dealer here in MA, Cadillac of Norwood. They all have attitudes like your putting them out and they don't have time for you. This isn't one time, this was several times I made a attempt on different occasions to buy a car but end up going to another dealership, Olsen Cadillac they are family owned and great people.

thebigjimsho
09-24-12, 01:09 AM
That's funny is sounds like the Cadillac dealer here in MA, Cadillac of Norwood. They all have attitudes like your putting them out and they don't have time for you. This isn't one time, this was several times I made a attempt on different occasions to buy a car but end up going to another dealership, Olsen Cadillac they are family owned and great people.

Olsen is, indeed, a quality dealership...

JSATS
09-24-12, 08:44 AM
My dealership was very helpful and made sure I got what I wanted. Even though they were asking 5 grand more between my trade and the ATS they met my price after my many attempts to walk out. They wanted my sale and did whatever they had to to get me to leave a deposit. I have dealt with this dealership in the past and they will bend over backwards to satisfy their customers. You need to find a dealership like this and I'm sure there are some around you.

BEarle
09-25-12, 06:48 PM
Olsen is, indeed, a quality dealership...

You got that right. There is a great sales guy named John Brady there that is probably the best salesperson I have ever dealt with.