: Opinion - Matte Black, Piano Black, or Gunmetal on Infrared CTS-V?



FuzzyLogic
06-11-12, 01:08 AM
Hey--

Sorry to jump on the color question bandwagon, but I've been agonizing over my Forgestar F14 order and think that I may have made a mistake in ordering piano (glossy) black wheels. Looking for your opinion here--what color do you like the best?

This is mine:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v219/QuicksilverG4/CTS-V/CIMG0033.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v219/QuicksilverG4/CTS-V/CIMG0047.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v219/QuicksilverG4/IMG_0064.jpg

Couple of other redline / infrared CTS-V's (including a couple of photoshopped ones):

http://i422.photobucket.com/albums/pp302/calebhindes/35.jpg

Piano Black F14 via Photoshop (courtesy of dudesweet on the LS1Tech forums):

http://ls1tech.com/forums/attachments/cadillac-cts-v/346300d1332596878-forgestar-f14-wheels-entering-production-6x115-finally-red-cts-v_black-forge.jpg

http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb102/rockyrubicon/Low%20Cad/DSCN5184.jpg

http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb102/rockyrubicon/Low%20Cad/DSCN5187.jpg

Gunmetal F14 via Photoshop (courtesy of dudesweet on the LS1Tech forums):

http://ls1tech.com/forums/attachments/cadillac-cts-v/346266d1332560478-forgestar-f14-wheels-entering-production-6x115-finally-red-cts-v_gunmetal-forge.jpg

Opinions? I'm leaning toward matte right now, but I figured I'd solicit advice before sending in a change of order form.

--Ryan

Stingroo
06-11-12, 01:23 AM
Matte black makes everything better.

Everything.

EdmundGTP
06-11-12, 02:10 PM
Matte black makes everything better.

Everything.

I disagree.. There are plenty times that changing the color of something to matte black just makes it look dirty.

My vote in order of preference, given the choices, would be Gunmetal, Piano, Matte.

JFensty
06-11-12, 10:55 PM
I disagree.. There are plenty times that changing the color of something to matte black just makes it look dirty.

My vote in order of preference, given the choices, would be Gunmetal, Piano, Matte.

^^^+1

FuzzyLogic
06-12-12, 12:39 AM
I think the Gunmetal finish works with the chrome grille, but not so much with the blacked out grille and windows.

JFensty
06-12-12, 12:56 AM
You still have the chrome around the grill tho. I feel like the gunmetal would pull everything together instead of looking like you murdered out your redline V. My $.02

killernoodle
06-12-12, 03:14 AM
I like the blacked out mesh with the chrome surround look like in the first 3 pics. I might do that when I get my gold F14s in :)

FuzzyLogic
06-12-12, 06:09 AM
I like the blacked out mesh with the chrome surround look like in the first 3 pics. I might do that when I get my gold F14s in :)

And then 14k gold plate the surround, tailpipes, and emblems? :rolleyes:

Tackelbarry
06-12-12, 08:57 AM
Gunmetal

killernoodle
06-12-12, 12:29 PM
I'll upholster the car with Persian rugs too. That should set things off nice :)

JDB
06-12-12, 05:43 PM
Gunmetal. Not a fan of murdered out look.

etcts-v
06-13-12, 02:42 AM
I think yours look the best, good choice IMO

Ny's Caddy
06-13-12, 09:58 PM
Hey--

Sorry to jump on the color question bandwagon, but I've been agonizing over my Forgestar F14 order and think that I may have made a mistake in ordering piano (glossy) black wheels. Looking for your opinion here--what color do you like the best?

This is mine:

Couple of other redline / infrared CTS-V's (including a couple of photoshopped ones):

Piano Black F14 via Photoshop (courtesy of dudesweet on the LS1Tech forums):

Gunmetal F14 via Photoshop (courtesy of dudesweet on the LS1Tech forums):

Opinions? I'm leaning toward matte right now, but I figured I'd solicit advice before sending in a change of order form.

--Ryan

If its too late throw them on if you don't like them I will be more than happy to take them off your hands.. I was goin to pick those up in that same Color but just couldn't see myself waiting all this time (I knew they wouldn't get done on time)

Sooner-V
06-14-12, 12:11 AM
I think it depends on how you want people to perceive your V. If you want more of a racing, high performance look I would go with the Matte. If you are looking for more of a classy, European look I would go with the Gunmetal. If you want a little of both then I would stay with the Piano.

Faber
06-14-12, 10:29 AM
gunmetal

ranger2525
06-15-12, 06:22 PM
I have the Matte Black Team dynamics on my Redline. I love them. But my car is going to be almost entirely Matte soon I hope!

DRod
06-19-12, 09:11 PM
Posting my Photoshop of your actual car with gunmetal. I guess the only difference is now you have a black grill.

http://ls1tech.com/forums/attachments/cadillac-cts-v/359235d1339893513-opinion-matte-black-piano-black-gunmetal-infrared-cts-v-redline-ctsv_gunmetal-forgestar-f14.jpg

BirdmanTamu
06-20-12, 06:15 PM
OP,

You could always go gunmetal or piano....then if you wanted, just for a fun change, plasti-dip them for the matte look. That's how I decided matte black was best for me...a little plasti-dip fun trial.

rand49er
06-20-12, 06:45 PM
Posting my Photoshop of your actual car with gunmetal. I guess the only difference is now you have a black grill.

http://ls1tech.com/forums/attachments/cadillac-cts-v/359235d1339893513-opinion-matte-black-piano-black-gunmetal-infrared-cts-v-redline-ctsv_gunmetal-forgestar-f14.jpgThat is one nice looking car!

colleyt
06-25-12, 12:26 AM
DRod, forgive me for asking without searching your posts.... What's rims are those?

colleyt
06-25-12, 04:09 AM
..... flat black is a bit 2000 & late. Gunmetal wheels w/ glass black trim/grills looks mean but won't put you at the kiddy table. Just my two cents

JazMiller
06-28-12, 12:49 AM
[QUOTE=DRod;3000772]Posting my Photoshop of your actual car with gunmetal. I guess the only difference is now you have a black grill.

Damn, that's what I want MINE to look like! Well, maybe some window tint...

vcaddy06
10-10-12, 12:36 AM
Sorry but I have to ask. Those wheels on the redline v...do they excist or did you photoshop the rims and color together?

FuzzyLogic
10-10-12, 01:57 AM
Sorry but I have to ask. Those wheels on the redline v...do they excist or did you photoshop the rims and color together?

Wow. I can't believe you brought this old thread back. Those other pictures on this thread were Photoshopped. I wound up buying the piano black Forgestar F14s. Still need to take good pictures, but this'll have to do for the moment:


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v219/QuicksilverG4/CTS-V/DSC00218.jpg

vcaddy06
10-10-12, 03:32 AM
Wow. I can't believe you brought this old thread back. Those other pictures on this thread were Photoshopped. I wound up buying the piano black Forgestar F14s. Still need to take good pictures, but this'll have to do for the moment:


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v219/QuicksilverG4/CTS-V/DSC00218.jpg

What are you talking about? I didn't bring any thread back. I asked a question.

Mn800r
10-14-12, 12:52 AM
I'm glad it's Back, fuzzy is that the original paint?, looks damn good if so!. Get some better shots of those rims, very sharp!.

FuzzyLogic
10-14-12, 01:05 AM
That's the original paint. Unfortunately, someone just did about $1000 in damage keying my car Thursday night.

Mn800r
10-14-12, 10:55 AM
That's the original paint. Unfortunately, someone just did about $1000 in damage keying my car Thursday night.

WTF! Doesn't that just make a guy sick!, spends all that time,effort,research and money to have a sweet,personalized bad azz but elegant ride and some jealous duesch bag pulls that. No wonder some species eat there young...
All I can offer is try to find some good in your nightmare your in. Best of luck

05 CTS-V LURKN
02-18-13, 05:43 PM
personally I think all of the options look good but the flat black gives it a little bit more aggressive look
my V is the same color and I've been looking for new wheel, mind telling me what the name the wheels are in the last picture you posted.
Size, make, model, and where you got them.

Thanks.

crankedupforit
02-18-13, 05:56 PM
Gunmetal FTMFW

ctsvoom
02-18-13, 08:45 PM
Forgestar f14's.

Mn800r
02-25-13, 12:08 PM
Gunmetal

Manofmetal01
02-25-13, 02:31 PM
I got the gunmetal. I dont have rubber yet, but I might be able to take a pic with a wheel sort of in place to give you an idea if you like

Mn800r
02-25-13, 03:56 PM
Yes pics would be good, what size's you go? Supplier and how much? Thanks

Manofmetal01
02-25-13, 04:03 PM
Well the F14s only come in the one size. 19x9 front and 19x 10 rear. I ordered mine directly through peter at forgestar.

I know, its filthy. Lots of airborn dust around here.

Mn800r
02-25-13, 04:16 PM
No pic or price our good friend to the nort...and you can order 19x11 for the rear

Manofmetal01
02-25-13, 04:26 PM
sorry, had some trouble getting pictures to work.

Manofmetal01
02-25-13, 04:36 PM
...and you can order 19x11 for the rear

unless ive missed some updates i dont believe that to be the case...afaik this was a one off run specifically for our 6 lug bolt patter and offset for our cars. ive been wrong before though...

Price was 1560 plus shipping which was pocket change

FuzzyLogic
02-25-13, 05:44 PM
No pic or price our good friend to the nort...and you can order 19x11 for the rear

Not correct. 19x9 front and 19x10 rear only.

Mn800r
02-25-13, 09:15 PM
Have a extra set of stockers, paid a visit to my PC guy, pulled a sample to set along side my spare..what do you think? $100 a rim includes all rash,dings, imperfection, blast,prime and double powder coat.

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg181/ddfunhouse/CTS-V/30000683de62e032bdaae82c889dd3e5_zps0c16ff2f.jpg

Manofmetal01
02-25-13, 09:44 PM
Have a extra set of stockers, paid a visit to my PC guy, pulled a sample to set along side my spare..what do you think? $100 a rim includes all rash,dings, imperfection, blast,prime and double powder coat.



I think I like the lighter gunmetal just because it's not too different to the chrome grill. You know what I mean, it blends in decently. But $100 ea is quite a saving compared.

On a side note, those who have gunmetal f14s...what lug nuts are you using?? Has anyone attempted to color match lugnuts? Is it possible, seeings how they can't be strung up for baking.
And at that, has anyone considered color matching their grill?

Mn800r
02-26-13, 11:12 PM
Damn thread and site!! I ordered the gunmetal today! Crap I'm gonna love these damn things! 6-9 wks. Tho...can't wait :bomb:

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg181/ddfunhouse/CTS-V/6ae91404b4af8f19b580b16d2fb4378b_zps2e89f45f.jpg

Mn800r
04-14-13, 10:38 PM
sorry, had some trouble getting pictures to work.

Any update on these wheels...what rubber u got and are they mounted..pics..my forgestars should be here next week and I need to find some rubber.

FuzzyLogic
04-16-13, 12:51 PM
It's hard to recommend tires without knowing how, when, and where you plan on driving. For Y-rated summer tires with great wet traction, I heartily recommend the Hankook Ventus V12.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v219/QuicksilverG4/DSC00145_Photobucket.jpg

sssnake
04-16-13, 02:28 PM
I have the Hankooks referenced based on Fuzzy's recommendation and prior experience. They have been great. If I were buying now I would strongly consider the Sumitomo HTR ZIII. Tire Rack test data looks good and I have heard positive feedback from users.

FuzzyLogic
04-16-13, 06:59 PM
I have the Hankooks referenced based on Fuzzy's recommendation and prior experience. They have been great. If I were buying now I would strongly consider the Sumitomo HTR ZIII. Tire Rack test data looks good and I have heard positive feedback from users.

I'm glad Tire Rack is doing testing now. Here's the review you were talking about (don't forget to click the "Test Result Charts" tab):

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/testDisplay.jsp?ttid=149

I would also note that their sample size is tiny, and filled with old tires. But it's a good start.

Mn800r
04-16-13, 07:30 PM
Thanks for the input,checking them both out....any other options or second-third choice's.

Mn800r
04-16-13, 10:09 PM
Boy the sumitomo's customer reviews on tire rack are poor and on light cars to boot..any other suggestions?

----------

Had to post a pic, pretty rockin rims!

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg181/ddfunhouse/CTS-V/30e8117d9699b61dde7be0053f859ada_zpsdad47355.jpg

Manofmetal01
04-16-13, 11:49 PM
No I havent mounted or gotten rubber yet. Switched jobs, less cash flow...heading back to the oil patch soon to get back on the mod wagon!
I got a bunch of quotes from different places around but tire rack is beating them all. I was considering some pirellis...but time will tell. This weekend ill be installing kw coilovers and hotchkis sways!

Mn800r
05-06-13, 11:52 PM
Got them mounted, went with Bridgestone potenza 760 sport


http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg181/ddfunhouse/CTS-V/8c57a5a05751548f06fa2e3d3b289cdb_zps078402ef.jpg
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg181/ddfunhouse/CTS-V/5fa83667eb6e254208e0b4143bac8d53_zps063eb2c3.jpg
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg181/ddfunhouse/CTS-V/7cd227c5a985fd6391c90358b42630e0_zpsc9b27968.jpg

Chris Cornett
05-07-13, 06:36 AM
Looks great man.

brngrhd
05-19-13, 11:14 PM
It's hard to recommend tires without knowing how, when, and where you plan on driving. For Y-rated summer tires with great wet traction, I heartily recommend the Hankook Ventus V12.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v219/QuicksilverG4/DSC00145_Photobucket.jpg


These are exactly what I need on my black car...... I'm new here what are these?

danrob0123
05-20-13, 01:16 PM
These are exactly what I need on my black car...... I'm new here what are these?

Forgestar F14's

bneal1022
06-19-13, 11:17 PM
What's the cost for a set of the ole 6 lug of these? Thanks.

Mn800r
06-22-13, 10:21 PM
About $400 a corner

Manofmetal01
07-12-13, 12:51 AM
Finally mounted. Needs a lil washin. Black lugs and axel trim tomorrow and shell be done for the time being.

124753

FuzzyLogic
07-12-13, 02:03 AM
Looks good. Next time you clean the wheels, I highly recommend applying one or two layers of Blackfire Wet Diamond All Metal Sealant (http://www.amazon.com/BLACKFIRE-Diamond-Metal-Sealant-16oz/dp/B003KWIOA8/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top) for scratch resistance and to help keep brake dust from hardening on the finish. That particular polymer blend has a higher temperature rating than Blackfire Wet Diamond All Finish Paint Protection, which I use on the rest of my car. Huge improvement over wax, but if you want even more shine, you can always add a layer of carnauba on top (e.g. P21S Concours).

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v219/QuicksilverG4/DSC00481_Big_zpsbca63c7d.jpg~original
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v219/QuicksilverG4/CTS-V/DSC00218.jpg~original
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v219/QuicksilverG4/CTS-V/DSC00219.jpg~original
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v219/QuicksilverG4/CTS-V/DSC00226.jpg~original
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v219/QuicksilverG4/CTS-V/DSC00224.jpg~original

Manofmetal01
07-12-13, 02:36 AM
Thanks for the tip, ill pick some up when I get the lugnuts tomorrow. Shes gonna get a sponge bath tomorrow so she looks good at the stampede.

Oh ****, I like that! Last I used was the mothers 3 part. Do I need to get the carnuba that's currently on her, off

Manofmetal01
07-12-13, 09:46 PM
Rubbing right rear. Gonna have to raise that heavy corner up a lil.

FuzzyLogic
07-12-13, 09:59 PM
Rubbing right rear. Gonna have to raise that heavy corner up a lil.

Time to put proper springs in the rear. I encourage you to try a pair of Swift Z60-228-140 (9" length, 784 in-lbs) springs in the rear.

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/2004-2007-cadillac-cts-v-performance/314034-cts-v-suspension-tuning.html

Mn800r
07-12-13, 11:33 PM
Time to put proper springs in the rear. I encourage you to try a pair of Swift Z60-228-140 (9" length, 784 in-lbs) springs in the rear.

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/2004-2007-cadillac-cts-v-performance/314034-cts-v-suspension-tuning.html

Yeah really fuzzy!!!!, where was this mention all while oozing about these forgestar rims?, I too have tire rub running narrower tires than what you decided was the best fit!. Yes, I'm paying around $125 a month just in car insurance on a car I can't drive unless I want to ruin my $500 rear rubber running these forgestars!. As far as I'm concerned you can take all your data and stick it. All was good on these tires from what I read on your reports!, again, I'm ****ing wrecking my new tires due to fender rub!. I have some forgestars forsale...just don't want anymore work and expense because these rims are to wide.

FuzzyLogic
07-12-13, 11:38 PM
Yeah really fuzzy!!!!, where was this mention all while oozing about these forgestar rims?, I too have tire rub running narrower tires than what you decided was the best fit!. Yes, I'm paying around $125 a month just in car insurance on a car I can't drive unless I want to ruin my $500 rear rubber running these forgestars!. As far as I'm concerned you can take all your data and stick it. All was good on these tires from what I read on your reports!, again, I'm ****ing wrecking my new tires due to fender rub!. I have some forgestars forsale...just don't want anymore work and expense because these rims are to wide.

The wheels are fine. You have your KW Variant 3's or Ground Control kit set too low. If you want to run a quarter inch off the rubber, you need much stiffer springs.

Get your s**t straight and stop blaming other people for your problems.

Mn800r
07-12-13, 11:48 PM
Really! So if you have stock springs and 4 adults and hit a mid sized bump your wrong as hell!,the suspension will travel to point of rubbing, or hard cornering with 2 people..either way I can't drive this car let alone drive it the way I used to!. Again, your a douch! My fenders will have to be rolled if I want to keep this ****ed rims.

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg181/ddfunhouse/CTS-V/b4a971e1cbc9d81b64da78012a17b5b5_zps391ce79a.jpg

----------

Get your s**t straight and stop blaming other people for your problems.[/QUOTE]

Hey!, your the Internet expert on this...just read your posts

FuzzyLogic
07-13-13, 12:02 AM
http://i45.tinypic.com/35ibry9.jpg

You're 1/2" off the rubber. That's 2" lower than stock ride height.

Return the car to stock height OR choose: wreck your tires and fenders, or buy the shocks and springs necessary to support your OTHER modification.

Manofmetal01
07-13-13, 05:02 AM
Both rears are rubbing. It looks good this low but in the meantime I'm going to have to raise it up some. I still have to cut the axels as I realized I dont have that size socket in my toolbox so ill do it all then.

As for those springs, how do those affect ride harshness? Am I going to be bouncing around? Are there still rubbing issues at all with those?

FuzzyLogic
07-13-13, 11:19 AM
Both rears are rubbing. It looks good this low but in the meantime I'm going to have to raise it up some. I still have to cut the axels as I realized I dont have that size socket in my toolbox so ill do it all then.

As for those springs, how do those affect ride harshness? Am I going to be bouncing around? Are there still rubbing issues at all with those?

You're approaching this problem the wrong way. Fundamentally, you're restricting the suspension's normal full range of motion by putting an obstruction in the way. There's a tradeoff to be made. A lower ride height looks cool, but more importantly, it lowers the Z-axis center of gravity (CG) of the car and it reduces the size of the air gap between the bottom of the vehicle and the road. Both of those things are good--one increases roll stiffness and the other improves aerodynamics.

But going too far (e.g. "slamming" the car) prevents the suspension from doing its job, and decreases handling capability. Mn800r is at that point--in fact, he's got a reverse rake situation going on there (rear is lower than the front), which is pretty much the worst of all worlds. Not only does his car look bad with the rear end sagging like that, it drives slower than it would if a) his weight distribution wasn't effed up, b) the suspension was allowed the freedom of motion to do its job and c) the underbody wasn't trying compress something like 3000 CFM of air at 60 mph.

Important point: cars that are fast also look fast. My advice is to take a look at the fastest CTS-V1s on the road today--guys that hit the track constantly like AAIIIC and Junior1--and ask yourself, if your settings are more aggressive than theirs, why that is.

AAIIIC:
http://www.submariner.org/thepno95/Pictures/CTS-V%20pics/Auto-x%20and%20Track%20Days/vir-audi%20club-nov12-2%20%28Custom%29.jpg
http://www.submariner.org/thepno95/Pictures/CTS-V%20pics/Auto-x%20and%20Track%20Days/vir-audi%20club-nov12-3%20%28Custom%29.jpg

Junior1:
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-BCthu1gtxnQ/UeAqLezQkqI/AAAAAAAABjQ/Z_Mnd7BXDlU/s800/WSPS-CDAMBROSIO-0033.jpg
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-aWLtT6lZyno/UeAp_deLTnI/AAAAAAAABh8/T3BpQ3RjweI/s800/WSPS-CDAMBROSIO-0023.jpg
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-APG59LD9u20/UeApwXne80I/AAAAAAAABgg/uB8bqiW0hJM/s800/WSPS-CDAMBROSIO-0011.jpg

The bottom line is that I'm not going to focus on solving your rubbing problem. You can fix that by simply raising the car. In lieu of spoon feeding you or forcing you to read this thread (http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/2004-2007-cadillac-cts-v-performance/314034-cts-v-suspension-tuning.html) (still a work in progress), all I'm going to do is point you at three spring combinations that will improve your handling balance and oops by the way reduce rubbing because the springs are stiffer.

By the way, don't simply expect to install new springs and leave your compression and rebound settings the way they are. You'll have to retune everything to find an optimum trade-off between control and comfort for the ride height you've selected. That includes an alignment. Or several. In some cases (like Mn800r), you may have to cope with the fact that your expectations for ride height are unrealistic or untenable.

Mediocre:
- 2x KW generic brand (8" length, 70mm ID, 574 in-lbs) springs in the front (free-ish)
- 2x Swift Z60-228-120 (9" length, 60mm ID, 672 in-lbs) springs in the rear ($170 at MAPerformance)

Front/Rear Natural Frequency: 1.45/1.45 Hz
Front/Rear Bias: 0% (equal)

Notes: equal rate is not optimum--does not meet the 10-20% rear rate criteria for high speed ride comfort--but still better than KW stock reverse bias. Should permit lowering of rear to within 1.5" of 285mm rear tires at -2.0 degree camber without rubbing. Front still prone to damaging fenders under bump loads while cornering. Decent roll resistance with Hotchkis or Addco sway bars.

Good:
- 2x KW generic brand (8" length, 70mm ID, 574 in-lbs) springs in the front (free-ish)
- 2x Swift Z60-228-140 (9" length, 60mm ID, 784 in-lbs) springs in the rear ($170 at MAPerformance)
- 2x Swift 044101 60mm thrust sheets ($21 at FRSport)
- 2x Swift 744303 70mm thrust sheets ($21 at FRSport)

Front/Rear Natural Frequency: 1.45/1.57 Hz
Front/Rear Bias: -10%

Notes: suspension balance within optimum range. Should permit lowering of rear to within 1.0" of 285mm rear tires at -2.0 degree camber without rubbing. Front still prone to damaging fenders under bump loads while cornering. Decent roll resistance with Hotchkis or Addco sway bars.

Better:
- 2x Swift Z70-203-120 (8" length, 70mm ID, 672 in-lbs) springs in the front ($170 at MAPerformance)
- 2x Swift Z60-228-160 (9" length, 60mm ID, 896 in-lbs) springs in the rear ($170 at MAPerformance)
- 2x Swift 044101 60mm thrust sheets ($21 at FRSport)
- 2x Swift 744303 70mm thrust sheets ($21 at FRSport)

Front/Rear Natural Frequency: 1.57/1.67 Hz
Front/Rear Bias: -6%

Notes: suspension balance a little lower than optimum (bumps in the 30-50 mph range might exhibit some pitch). Textbook optimum balance would require 1008 in-lb, 8" rear springs (Swift Z60-203-180), which would be overly harsh and uncontrolled due to limits of KW Variant 3 valving. Should permit lowering of rear to within 0.5" of 285mm rear tires at -2.0 degree camber without rubbing. Front nearly immune to contact with fenders, even under bump loads while cornering. Excellent roll resistance with Hotchkis or Addco sway bars.

Finally, you can use a sawzall with a good blade to knock two threads off the axle stubs. There's no reason for them to be that long--GM wasted material there.

Manofmetal01
07-13-13, 01:33 PM
Understood. I obviously have them set too low, was fine with stock wheels but I didn't get around to adjusting them before heading into the city.

I'm looking for drivability in the meantime, until I have a chance to start playing with the springs and settings. This is all new territory for me, my technical understanding is lacking but I'm trying to get up to speed.

Will fender rolling help with the front end fender damage due to corner bumps? Or is more of a cop out just to allow a lower image. And how much would that help in the rear as far as bump damage?

Please understand I'm not looking for the easy way out, I want functionality over image...but it is also summer afterall, I can't not drive her ;)

FuzzyLogic
07-13-13, 02:02 PM
Rolling your fenders will give you a little bit of wiggle-room, but not nearly enough. The money that you'll put into rolling the fenders should be spent on springs. In the short term: raise the rear. It's free. I would put in an order for springs today, if I were you.

By the way, if you could simply "band-aid" the rubbing problem by cranking up the compression dampening on the KW Variant 3's, I would have mentioned it. But the problem is that you simply don't have enough spring under the corners to prevent the corners from compressing under sustained load. In other words, it's not the job of the shocks to control ride height. Their job is to dampen the rate of change of your suspension when acted upon by an outside force.

If you want to think about it this way, shock damping controls the rate of motion (compression and rebound) of the suspension, but cannot prevent it from compressing or extending to its full length over time. So, for example, if you massively increased compression damping in the rear to prevent it from compressing under bumps, you'd have a very harsh ride that *might* not rub when you hit certain bumps, but you'd find that over a second or two of continuous cornering or acceleration, oil in the shock will slowly leak through the valves (as is intended) and the rear will collapse because the spring isn't sufficiently strong to hold it up.

Manofmetal01
07-13-13, 02:16 PM
Will order when I head back to work so they're home when I am. Pros and cons of working away for weeks ar a time.

Question about trimming the axels. I've got years of steel fab so that's no issue, I'm planning on using a zip disc, are the axel nuts one time use? I definetely don't want to damage any of the studs.

FuzzyLogic
07-13-13, 02:34 PM
Will order when I head back to work so they're home when I am. Pros and cons of working away for weeks ar a time.

Question about trimming the axels. I've got years of steel fab so that's no issue, I'm planning on using a zip disc, are the axel nuts one time use? I definetely don't want to damage any of the studs.

The 35mm axle nuts are supposedly single-use (torque to yield). Those stubs run about 1.5" past the nuts, so you'd really have to screw up to mess up the nuts.

More hub information here:

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/2004-2007-cadillac-cts-v-performance/286753-08-sts-v-rear-skf-x.html

Manofmetal01
07-13-13, 02:48 PM
I'd have to cut the axel on an angle, it didn't seem like the angle grinder was going to fit flat and take off enough. Ill take a closer look shortly.

Mn800r
07-14-13, 10:47 AM
Again fuzzy, does this look like your "keyboard gospel" reverse rake? my driveway is slopped for water run off as it should be and is very comman,unlike garage ports. The point is there are a lot of keyboard technicians out there and your the biggest on this foru. Another point is you took a look at my last photo and spouted off measurements based on a look(keyboard expert)in which are both wrong. The paper I hold for my H&R springs states 1.2 fr. & 1 in. Rr. Not 2 in. lower than stock as you state.

One more point of your keyboard wisdoms, this photo of mine looks just like AAIIIC's car..


http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg181/ddfunhouse/CTS-V/ec9cf86abd247ae55c552f0ebf8bcc01_zps49ba5a01.jpg
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg181/ddfunhouse/CTS-V/8c57a5a05751548f06fa2e3d3b289cdb_zps078402ef.jpg

My over all tire Dia. are the same as stock,it's the offset that messed this up to the point where I can't drive the car unless I spend more time and money. Would have been a nice thing to know besides just how great these are. $2600 spent to keep it in the shed..
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg181/ddfunhouse/CTS-V/dc787328.jpg

----------

Metal01, you may want to contact forgestar as I did and get these caps for FREE,they sent 4 with o-rings.

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg181/ddfunhouse/CTS-V/7ca005a1295eb4c7f1155c247156cc50_zps3233e7f1.jpg

seeyouinajif
07-14-13, 10:49 AM
One more point of your keyboard wisdoms, this photo of mine looks just like AAIIIC's car..

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg181/ddfunhouse/CTS-V/8c57a5a05751548f06fa2e3d3b289cdb_zps078402ef.jpg



http://www.submariner.org/thepno95/Pictures/CTS-V%20pics/Auto-x%20and%20Track%20Days/vir-audi%20club-nov12-3%20%28Custom%29.jpg


Your car sittting still looks like AAIIIC's outside wheels during a hard corner. There is no way your car is the same height as his.

FuzzyLogic
07-14-13, 11:00 AM
Your car sittting still looks like AAIIIC's outside wheels during a hard corner. There is no way your car is the same height as his.

Correct. In the picture you quoted, he's cornering. In the other, he's accelerating.

Manofmetal01
07-14-13, 12:01 PM
Metal01, you may want to contact forgestar as I did and get these caps for FREE,they sent 4 with o-rings.


Thanks but its now done, used a 40 grit flap disc with no issues.

Also I adjusted "A" measurement of the kw spacer to roughly 1" driver side and 1 3/16" passenger side. Test drive may have confirmed no more rub, I'm going to put marks on the rubber for 100% confirmation. Both sides are close to 14" fender to center and visually still looks slick.

An area of concer I've noticed: my front bumper is not original, it was replaced doe to a brief "off road excursion"..what ive noticed is the gap between the tire and inside bumper on the driver side is much smaller than the same gap on the passenger side. Everything else seems to line up pretty well. I've never taken the bumpet off myself, what should I be looking for? Are there adjustments?

FuzzyLogic
07-14-13, 12:45 PM
Can you take a picture? I'm not sure if you're talking about the clearance between the forward-facing portion of the tire and the bumper, or some other area.

crankedupforit
07-14-13, 01:27 PM
Your car sittting still looks like AAIIIC's outside wheels during a hard corner. There is no way your car is the same height as his.

Keep in mind the race rubber in the pictures is 275/35 which is about 1.2 inches smaller in diameter than the standard tire. Tire clearance will look different to that of the stock size even though the suspension settings are the same. Also, Junior1 and I (and also AAIIIC I believe) have as much negative camber the car will allow. Junior1 even more so due to his modifications. I'm not sure about Junior1 but AAIIIC and I have rolled rear fender lips.

FuzzyLogic
07-14-13, 02:43 PM
I'm not sure about Junior1 but AAIIIC and I have rolled rear fender lips.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-ksVkslYkOY4/UeAp7_NxIeI/AAAAAAAABhk/xCTHKWOWdc0/s800/WSPS-CDAMBROSIO-0019.jpg

Looks like yes.

Manofmetal01
07-15-13, 12:47 AM
125473125481

FuzzyLogic
07-15-13, 01:04 AM
That doesn't look right at all. Have you checked your rack for breakage?

Manofmetal01
07-15-13, 01:23 AM
No I have not. Youre referring to the steering rack I assume. I think im going to have to visit the brother in law and get on his lift.

FuzzyLogic
07-15-13, 01:31 AM
No I have not. Youre referring to the steering rack I assume. I think im going to have to visit the brother in law and get on his lift.

Have you gotten an alignment since the repair? That might uncover any potential issues.

Manofmetal01
07-15-13, 02:07 AM
Yes, recently. The repair was two years ago. Nothing was noted. I had quite a bit of work done when the alignment was done as well so any issues should have been noticed.
Work done:
Crankshaft rear oil seal replacement.
DM flywheel was replaced, all driveline bushings inspected and deem ok, no cracks, all one piece including transmission mount, drive shaft and center support.
No signs of MM damage or separation.
Oil pan replacement, engine was pulled and cradle removed as they couldn't hang the engine as shown in si.
Replaced diff carrier drain or fill plug.
Left front outer tie rod.
AC belt and tensioner.
Right lower control arm...my fault.

125489

FuzzyLogic
07-15-13, 02:37 AM
Ewww. You have 1.49 degrees of difference between your front caster angles. That may be the problem.

For comparison, my alignment is much tighter: 0.0 degrees of cross camber, 0.2 degrees of cross caster, and 0.02 degrees of toe, which I requested to prevent the car from driving right on roads with significant crown. The rear was less tight, because my stock toe rods had almost totally seized. Now that I have BMR toe rods, I'm going back in next week to have the whole thing redone. I'll probably go 0.1 degrees of toe out in the front this time.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v219/QuicksilverG4/CTS-V/DSC00810_zpsc6d6c19c.jpg

Manofmetal01
07-15-13, 02:49 AM
This is greek to me haha. I will need to read about alignments and the differences to understand these numbers.

Im noticing they based the specs off of the FE4 setup, is this why my spec ranges are so much different than yours or did you specify your own?

FuzzyLogic
07-15-13, 03:32 AM
I specified my own, based off the stock alignment settings printed in the FAQ.

Manofmetal01
07-18-13, 12:46 AM
It bit me in the ass. Drove up to work, 4.5 hrs, got to the parking compound and I hear a noise...check it out aaand...tire wore through a bunch of the inner shroud. F sakes. Have to take the car in anyhow as they got brake fluid on my calipers and ruined the finish and the new windshield still leaks where it was before.
Now they can fix those f ups and the shrouding...try to get that covered as warranty on their retarded alignment. The front forgestars are no larger in diameter with a 245/40 as our original wheels, correct? The car was already lowered when they did the alignment too so I'm putting all the blame on them.

FuzzyLogic
07-18-13, 02:12 PM
The front tires may be the same diameter and width but the offset is not the same. The rear tires are, again, the same diameter, but their offset and width is different.

It's a three dimensional problem that the dealership is not responsible to solve. All they're going to do is tell you that they set your alignment within the broad, factory specs for stock ride height. It's not their fault that your lowered car ate a fender liner. Over the course of tuning my suspension, I've annihilated several fender liners. So has everyone else with modified suspension. Some on this forum have destroyed so many that they don't install them anymore.

Bottom line: you're going to look like an idiot if you try to put the blame on them for the liner. You're better off pretending to be stupid, although that's unethical. Going to a dealership to get an alignment is almost always a bad idea, unless you own a stock car and want a rough, stock alignment. What you want with a lowered car is an aggressive, precisely dialed-in race alignment. The dealership will not do that for you for liability reasons--some wont even touch the suspension on a modified car for that very reason.

Manofmetal01
07-18-13, 06:32 PM
Understood, makes perfect sense. I was just a little peeved at the time of writing.

FuzzyLogic
07-18-13, 06:48 PM
Understood, makes perfect sense. I was just a little peeved at the time of writing.

**This is the front portion of the front fenders**
25765935 FENDER LINER LEFT ($40.08)
25765934 FENDER LINER RIGHT ($38.93)

**This is the rear portion of the front fenders**
25750635 LINER EXTENSION LEFT ($39.55)
25750634 LINER EXTENSION RIGHT ($41.36)

I had to create a list of commonly broken parts. :halo:

Manofmetal01
07-18-13, 08:07 PM
Haha awesome, thanks buddy

liqidvenom
01-11-14, 07:15 PM
Normally i give fuzzy a hard time for what he says but to the guy who complained about tire rub, that is on you. Aftermarket wheels are designed normally for a stock height vehicle. once you lower it you need to make sure the wheels still fit in the wheel wells and that the tire you pick also fits. normally the less of a finger gap you have the less you can have the suspension allow vertical movement. With my h&r's the car looks great sitting still but on the track or with people in the car it would have a slight rub in the rear. many ways to fix it.
1) run a stretched tire
2) run a smaller diameter tire
3) run the stock tire size
4) raise the vehicle
5) alter the fenders ( roll them)
6) change the suspension.

We dont drive supras or other cars with huge wheel wells and fuzzy gave you some good tips and the other guy with an issue took them to heart. Even with my Lg's im going to get my fenders rolled to some degree when i get some wider wheels.