: Could this car be a great successor to Jaguar's current XJ?



orconn
05-31-12, 05:46 PM
Let's face it the last iteration of Jaguars XJ sedan was merely "ho-hum!" That model can easily be mistaken for any number of other contemporary "luxury" or just plain cars on the road today. Some think that both Jaguar and cadillac should develop new designs more unique to their own design heritage.

If Cadillac actually builds amd markets a range of "Ciel" design based cars it could go a long way in making Cadillac a leader instead of a follower in the high priced automobile marketplace.

Jaguar needs products with the same kind of unigue design to recapture the market for tastefully unique luxury cars that it has traditionally held around the world. Like many other car makers around the world, Jaguar would be wise to seek design assistance from Italy. The Bertone design for a replacement for the current XJ6 might just be the ticket for a Jaguar shot at truly regaining its role as a highly desirable luxury car among sophisticated buyers.

92798


92799

vincentm
05-31-12, 07:36 PM
like it, a coupe would be nice

Jesda
05-31-12, 09:06 PM
It would make for a stunning Mercedes CL competitor. Jaguar could charge nearly six figures for it.

thebigjimsho
05-31-12, 10:02 PM
I love the current XJ. If it's in black and that goofy black strip on the C pillar disappears...

talismandave
06-01-12, 12:59 AM
Now that would make me walk over and take a look! That is a commanding look. Very distinctive.

77CDV
06-01-12, 01:28 AM
That is pure sex on wheels. Do. Want. :drool:

hueterm
06-01-12, 11:19 AM
Love...

Playdrv4me
06-03-12, 04:49 AM
I prefer the 2004-2009 XJs, and they've gotten so temptingly cheap now, I have been kicking the idea around for a long time. Even the XJ-Rs have come down to peanuts. Unfortunately, XJ-Rs stick you with the CATS suspension, and British cars are more about wafting along anyway so a base XJ with Alpine, Xenon and a warranty makes more sense.

brandondeleo
06-03-12, 05:07 AM
My god, that thing is sexy.

My favorite XJs are the X300 and X308.

talismandave
06-03-12, 10:57 AM
I prefer the 2004-2009 XJs, and they've gotten so temptingly cheap now, I have been kicking the idea around for a long time....British cars are more about wafting along anyway so a base XJ with Alpine, Xenon and a warranty makes more sense.
I know what you mean. I would be stuck at the same dealership I'm at now with the Volvo is the only thing that would keep me from it. If they get their act together in the two years of warranty I have left I could be convinced!

orconn
06-03-12, 06:33 PM
I really like the 2004-09 XJ's too! I think Jaguar really shot themselves in the foot with the new XJ designs. If I were in the market for a newer luxury sedan, this version of the XJ would be at the very top of my list! If I were going to make a "skinny dip" into Jaguar XJ ownership, as Ian seems to prefer doing, the XJR might be OK, but if longer term ownership were desired, a base XJ would be my preference.

When I first saw this Bertone rendition of an XJ, I immediately thought that a coupe version would make an excellent addition to the Jaguar line. Jaguar has been too long without an XJS in their lineup. After all for more than two decades the XJS coupe and convertible were among Jags best selling models. Perhaps Jaguar could get back on track with the addition of all three Bertone renditions! Sir William Lyons would be smiling, once again!

brandondeleo
06-04-12, 04:25 AM
XJS coupe and convertible
:drool:

thebigjimsho
06-04-12, 11:40 AM
You guys do realize these pics are years old and have been shown before, right?

brandondeleo
06-04-12, 11:45 AM
Shut up and enjoy. :lol:

thebigjimsho
06-04-12, 12:44 PM
Ignorance is bliss. lol.

brandondeleo
06-04-12, 12:47 PM
Sometimes it is! :lol:

orconn
06-04-12, 03:39 PM
You guys do realize these pics are years old and have been shown before, right?

Yup!

bigm57ict
06-04-12, 05:30 PM
I prefer the 2004-2009 XJs, and they've gotten so temptingly cheap now, I have been kicking the idea around for a long time. Even the XJ-Rs have come down to peanuts. Unfortunately, XJ-Rs stick you with the CATS suspension, and British cars are more about wafting along anyway so a base XJ with Alpine, Xenon and a warranty makes more sense.

Highly agree. We just recently bought an '07 XJ8 L. It is very nice and fun to drive. My only complaint - after driving the Deville, it feels a bit small. When they redesigned it after '09, they took away a distinctive, easily recognized style that has been their signature for decades.

The other thing to consider about an XJR is the higher insurance and fuel costs. Personally, I think the base V8 has plenty of power.

Jesda
06-04-12, 07:35 PM
I kind of like narrow cars. They're easy to park.

talismandave
06-04-12, 09:06 PM
I kind of like narrow cars. They're easy to park.
...but harder to go parking in...:sneaky:

thebigjimsho
06-04-12, 10:07 PM
I kind of like narrow cars. They're easy to park.

Get an XTS.

Jesda
06-04-12, 10:58 PM
Get an XTS.

And it comes full circle! Well played, James.

Aron9000
06-05-12, 07:35 AM
I really do like the exterior styling of the current Jag XF, and the XK hardtop coupe is one of the sexiest cars on the road right now IMO. You can get away with the sloping rear roof line in your smaller and way sportier sedan, but it doesn't work on the XJ.

I personally think the new XJ big sedan is just weird looking, both inside and out. I really wish they had made their big car a more formal, upright sedan, instead of this sloping rear window and roof treatment that punishes tall rear seat occupents. That black rear pillar only really works if you tint all the windows to 5% on a dark grey or black car.

Plus I think the interior layout is rather strange, the digital gauges are ugly, and honestly Chevrolet installs better interior door handles on their Impala. These things are cheap plastic coated chrome, the backings are some of the cheapest black plastic your fingertips have ever touched. At least make these parts you touch real chrome plated steel or real brushed aluminum. I don't feel that I am being picky on a car that costs 80-100k+

gary88
06-05-12, 01:16 PM
I like the new XJ. It has character and bold styling. Plus it's the lightweight of the luxo-barge group at 4,045lbs and 4.131lbs for the long wheelbase.

http://i.imgur.com/OBZJ7.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/NqfdQ.jpg

I think the A8 is better though, it feels like you're in a yacht with wheels.

http://i.imgur.com/Tolc5.jpg

orconn
06-05-12, 01:55 PM
Sorry, Gary 88, the new XJ's interior looks like a jute box junk yard. Not even close to Jaguar's better efforts.

brandondeleo
06-05-12, 11:28 PM
The A8's interior is far better looking, in my opinion. I'd almost say that the XJ's a little ... garish, even.

Jesda
06-05-12, 11:46 PM
The XJ interior is gaudy, but I love it so much for that very reason.

And I'm someone who normally prefers subtlety.

brandondeleo
06-05-12, 11:47 PM
I think it's something that might grow on me, but time will tell.

Playdrv4me
06-05-12, 11:55 PM
so much chrome plated plastic.... SO MUCH.

talismandave
06-05-12, 11:59 PM
I am really of two minds on it and I have looked at it several times, though not in person. I think I must see it and sit in it to decide. Perhaps at my next service. I like the homage to the 50s-60s, the chrome and circular vents. Kind of cool. Perhaps in a different car? :confused: the first word that came to mind when I looked at the pic...was...overwrought. Perhaps that was a reaction to the departure from the refined and stately look I expect from a Jag. If they want to break stereotypes, it worked. I would imagine buyers won't be existing Jag owners, but, like us big Caddy drivers they are dying every day so perhaps they are right. I will still lament the loss, as I do with Cadillac, but I will get over it! PS that Audi dash is really cool, but then, I have no expectation of Audi so if I were a fan perhaps I'd dislike it too!

brandondeleo
06-06-12, 12:10 AM
I'm personally a fan of Audi. I think my favorite Audi is the first generation A8L.

http://carphotos.cardomain.com/ride_images/4/447/3401/38616700001_large.jpg

thebigjimsho
06-06-12, 09:02 AM
I love the XJ interior but I do love the Audi's more. The fully optioned A8L I sat in in Detroit was insane.

However, the Audi is $20G more to start and much more when going top of the line. Not worth the money, IMHO...

bigm57ict
06-06-12, 11:36 AM
I'm personally a fan of Audi. I think my favorite Audi is the first generation A8L.

http://carphotos.cardomain.com/ride_images/4/447/3401/38616700001_large.jpg

Reminds me of the 1980 5000S we had when I was a kid. It was a well built, solid car. It could be a challenge to work on, though. Ours had the 5 cylinder diesel engine.

93054

I guess, like Jaguar, Audi styling didn't change much from year to year.
However, I find the styling rather bland compared to the XJ.

orconn
06-06-12, 02:41 PM
Highly agree. We just recently bought an '07 XJ8 L. It is very nice and fun to drive. My only complaint - after driving the Deville, it feels a bit small. When they redesigned it after '09, they took away a distinctive, easily recognized style that has been their signature for decades.

The other thing to consider about an XJR is the higher insurance and fuel costs. Personally, I think the base V8 has plenty of power.


Tell us more about your impressions and life with you '07 XJ, I really don't know anyone who owns one so I am very interested your thoughts. Pictures would be nice too!

brandondeleo
06-06-12, 02:47 PM
Tell us more about your impressions and life with you '07 XJ, I really don't know anyone who owns one so I am very interested your thoughts. Pictures would be nice too!
:yeah:
I don't know anybody with one, either. It would be cool to hear about it.

orconn
06-06-12, 03:18 PM
I also am a fan of of Audi (and Volkswagen, for that matter) exterior and interior design. Their designs are clean and functional without being ragged or bland to the point of boredom. By far the best thing about my 1985 Audi 5000S Avant was its' design. The exterior was clean and aerodynamic with decent all around vision. The interior was strait forward functional, but well done and never felt Spartan or deprived of comfort. The materials that you saw and touched were of good quality and stood up well to the test of time. Unfortunately, it was what you couldn't see that was the car's down fall. The Audi's component parts were very prone to premature failure, and the parts that replaced them failed just as fast if not faster! Although I only owned the Audi for seven years and it had only about fifty thousand miles on it when I got rid of it, it was by far the most expensive car to maintain that I have ever own (and that is saying something as I have owned many Jaguars!). The car's inability to start under certain circumstances, its' propensity to turn on its' air conditioning full blast when shut off and parked (and the system turn to "off"), thus running the battery dead, was annoying to say the least (especially when the car had to be pushed by hand down several floors of a parking garage because the tow truck couldn't fit in the structure. The fact that a non electric, non automatic, radio antenna cost over $500. in 1987, and the power window regulators (so designed that the whole unit including motor had to be purchased when just a small part failed) which also cost $500. a piece failed on a regular basis. Of course you did get the pleasure of going to a Porsche/Audi dealership and paying ridiculous Porsche prices for parts and labor on what was essentially a glorified Volkswagen. So you get the picture, it was essentially an "Aside from that Mrs Lincoln, how was the show!" ownership experience.

Although I do like their design, there will be no more Audi's in my future!

truckinman
06-06-12, 03:51 PM
I really like the current xj. I think it was VERY bold of jaguar to design it how they did. Look at every other XJ generation. You can look at a first gen xj and then the last gen xj and you can tell right away they are both the same model car. But this new XJ is a huge jump from their past designs and I really like it. You can't just look at this XJ and know it's an XJ. You've actually gotta look for badges on this one. And I like that boldness in change.

orconn
06-06-12, 06:04 PM
I really like the current xj. I think it was VERY bold of jaguar to design it how they did. Look at every other XJ generation. You can look at a first gen xj and then the last gen xj and you can tell right away they are both the same model car. But this new XJ is a huge jump from their past designs and I really like it. You can't just look at this XJ and know it's an XJ. You've actually gotta look for badges on this one. And I like that boldness in change.

I agree that the new XJ looks nothing like previous XJ's, and I agree with you that you have to look for a logo to tell which of any number of look alike cars it might be. But I don't think this is makes for a Jaguar I would want, or many people able to buy Jaguars new would want. There are any number of other cars in several different price ranges that look like the current XJ ..... if you want a car that looks like every one else's, I can suggest a few that would be much more reliable and serve your transportation needs for much less money.

truckinman
06-06-12, 06:20 PM
I agree that the new XJ looks nothing like previous XJ's, and I agree with you that you have to look for a logo to tell which of any number of look alike cars it might be. But I don't think this is makes for a Jaguar I would want, or many people able to buy Jaguars new would want. There are any number of other cars in several different price ranges that look like the current XJ ..... if you want a car that looks like every one else's, I can suggest a few that would be much more reliable and serve your transportation needs for much less money.

That is true. There are a few like it out there. I know Audi has a fast back look alike to it. Don't know the exact model of that Audi tho. Is it a spin off the A8 or what?

brandondeleo
06-06-12, 06:32 PM
That is true. There are a few like it out there. I know Audi has a fast back look alike to it. Don't know the exact model of that Audi tho. Is it a spin off the A8 or what?
A7.
There is a convertible model out now that I absolutely love, but they're releasing a four door convertible version of the A7 in a few years that I would blow up a building for.

http://audworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/a7-2012.jpg

truckinman
06-06-12, 07:00 PM
A7.
There is a convertible model out now that I absolutely love, but they're releasing a four door convertible version of the A7 in a few years that I would blow up a building for.



Oh wow. Yea that A7 is a great looking car. I'd love to see it in a convertible. That will def be a class leader. I mean besides the jeep, there hasn't been a 4 door vertable since the old caddy 4 door veritable from the 50s-60s right? Far as I know anyway.

brandondeleo
06-06-12, 07:25 PM
This is the current A7 convertible. I know a guy who has a gold one with a black top. It's very attractive. It's noticeably bigger than the A4 convertible. The next is the concept four door. I've seen both suicide-type and normal door concepts.

http://www.car-news-blog.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/audi-a5-cabrio.jpg
http://images.thecarconnection.com/lrg/2010-audi-a5-cabrio-convertible-003_100195537_l.jpg

http://www.pause.com/wp-content/gallery/08-08-28-audi-a7/audia7scoopphoto1.jpg
http://shockcars.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/audi-a7-convertible.jpg

truckinman
06-06-12, 07:35 PM
Yup. I like that. That is a damn good looking car. Both in 2 and 4 door.

gary88
06-06-12, 09:03 PM
Uh, that's an S5 Cabriolet in the first two pics. An A7 convertible doesn't exist right now.

About that Audi blandness again... :duck:

brandondeleo
06-06-12, 09:08 PM
I had the A7 and A5 confused this whole time. :lol: Wow. Airhead.

ryannel2003
06-06-12, 09:13 PM
I love Audi's. However I wouldn't own one unless I was making lots of money, and this is coming from somebody with a BMW.

truckinman
06-06-12, 09:20 PM
I love Audi's. However I wouldn't own one unless I was making lots of money, and this is coming from somebody with a BMW.

I agree. I like them but if I had that kind of money, there are MANY MANY other cars I'd rather spend the money on. But they are incredibly nice cars.

talismandave
06-06-12, 09:50 PM
A7....they're releasing a four door convertible version of the A7 in a few years that I would blow up a building for.
That can't be true becuase I learned in another thread on this forum that no one would spend that kind of money on a 4 door convertible. :tisk:

----------

You really need to read more.

brandondeleo
06-06-12, 10:03 PM
That can't be true becuase I learned in another thread on this forum that no one would spend that kind of money on a 4 door convertible. :tisk:

----------

You really need to read more.
I wonder what the cost of an A7 four door convertible would be in comparison to a Ciel...

truckinman
06-06-12, 10:10 PM
I'm guessing 90k for the Audi.

talismandave
06-06-12, 10:11 PM
Probably close to the same if built with shelf components.

brandondeleo
06-06-12, 10:13 PM
It'd be the Ciel for me, probably. The Ciel's styling is outlandish and aggressive, but the interior concept is far more attractive in the Ciel than the A7.

talismandave
06-06-12, 10:19 PM
Me too. Now that I only drive about 6,000 miles a year and own a second car :cookoo: if I found one I could live with long term a new purchase wouldn't be a bad idea. All my life I used cars up too quickly to not lose my shirt on new.

truckinman
06-06-12, 10:27 PM
I'm sure I'd take the ciel over the Audi. Mainly bc I'd just rather have a caddy. And bc itreally does have such an aggressive style. I love it

brandondeleo
06-06-12, 10:29 PM
The A7 has a pretty strong resemblance to the CLS. Is that just me, or...?

truckinman
06-06-12, 10:35 PM
The A7 has a pretty strong resemblance to the CLS. Is that just me, or...?

That's actually first thing I thought when I saw my first A7 was how it looks like they copied the CLS

brandondeleo
06-06-12, 10:46 PM
I think the A7 is better looking in direct comparison to the CLS. :lol:

thebigjimsho
06-06-12, 11:13 PM
I hate the rear end of the A7. Hate.

The A6 is a much, much better looking car...

brandondeleo
06-06-12, 11:17 PM
I almost bought a 2001 Audi A6 Quattro a while back... Was going to trade it straight across for my car at a friend's car lot. Awesome car, absolutely beautiful interior with a surprising amount of space and features, but the exterior styling was bland back then and if I see an Audi with the Check Engine light on, I'm going to run like hell. Turned out it needed a pretty big repair.

ryannel2003
06-06-12, 11:38 PM
Big fan of A7, like the previous-gen CLS, but I absolutely love this:

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n46/ryannel2003/2013_bmw_6-series_f34_ft_604121_815.jpg

Playdrv4me
06-06-12, 11:57 PM
^ I still need some time to process that.

ryannel2003
06-07-12, 12:03 AM
You don't like it? I absolutely love it! I'm looking forward to seeing one in person very soon. All in all the current generation 6 Series is a much better looking car inside and out than the previous model. A buddy of mine had a '07 650i and I wasn't impressed. He ended up trading for a CTS-V.

Jesda
06-07-12, 01:09 AM
The 6-series has good proportions but the details are lacking in crispness. It looks too similar to a 1999 Chrysler Concorde.

talismandave
06-07-12, 01:25 AM
ouch!:osnap:
I love CF. I click on the thread without looking and read 4 or 5 posts and then look at what the thread is titled to know where we started!:o

bigm57ict
06-21-12, 12:13 PM
Tell us more about your impressions and life with you '07 XJ, I really don't know anyone who owns one so I am very interested your thoughts. Pictures would be nice too!


:yeah:
I don't know anybody with one, either. It would be cool to hear about it.

Sorry for the delay. I've been away on vacation. Here are some photos:

93703

93704

We have enjoyed the car so far. It is truly a weekend cruiser only. I haven't really put enough miles on it to attest to reliability.

Jaguar switched to an all aluminum body in 2003, making it lighter and more efficient. The V8 has great power and acceleration while getting 21-28 mpg. I really like the interior with all the real wood on the dash. It does feel a bit cramped compared to the Deville, though. :) The "L" gives it a longer wheelbase than the standard XJ which results in much better legroom in the back.

It is technically my wife's car, though I've driven it more. She doesn't like to take it out in bad weather, to bad neighborhoods, to work, etc...
I get a lot of positive comments from people my age and older. The younger generation doesn't seem as familiar with these cars. Perhaps that's why Jaguar felt the need to reinvent it. I definitly prefer this styling, though.

And, no, we don't have a thing for white cars. It just worked out that way.
It was difficult to find a used XJ around here once we decided we wanted one. My wife absolutely refused to get a black one. Most of the ones we found are black. She didn't care for white, either, until she saw how good the Deville looks when it's properly cleaned up (which is most of the time). So when I found this one for sale, she agreed to get it.

Hopefully, Jaguar has moved beyond their old reputation for bad reliability. We shall see.

talismandave
06-21-12, 03:47 PM
Wow. What an outstanding pair of beauties. I have always had a thing for white cars though. That is a great evolution of a great design. I can't believe they would turn their back on it with the new generation. I guess they were afraid to have a car that didn't fit in the current cookie cutter. Shame because that is stunning. Enjoy and best of luck with it. If I were you I would hope the wife don't get used to driving it!

orconn
06-21-12, 04:36 PM
For me it is one of the best looking cars on the road, not surprising since it's a Jaguar! By caving in to current style trends, Jaguar has really ceased to be a unique automobile maker, but rather just another also ran in the high priced field of competitors. If their is nothing really special about the cars a small niche manufacturer has to offer, its' relevance is very questionable.

Various designers have come up with designs for both sports and sedan models, hopefully Jaguar's management will see the light and adopt some of these for production. The Jaguar marque was an evolution of superior styling made for moderately expensive chassis. The post war venture into racing allowed the company to prove the quality of its' engine and chassis design culminating in the series I E-type and the series I XJ6, both brilliant breakthroughs in both functional design and performance and visual beauty.

The last iteration of a truly "William Lyons" inspired design for the XJ8 was another break through that the automotive press gave only glancing credit. The use of aluminum in the cars chassis and body greatly reduced the weight of these cars compare to their grossly overweight German competitors. The outlandish horsepower of the German cars, necessary to just get them underway, is what stimulated the Pavlovian reflexes of the automotive press and their predictable worship of that horsepower. The refinements and finesse of the XJ was overshadowed by the gadgets and horsepower of the Germans.

Best of luck with your Jaguar ownership! I believe the unique advantages that the marque usually offers far outweigh the disadvantages.

bigm57ict
06-21-12, 06:27 PM
Well said!