: V Tire Rotation/Swap



htompkins
05-31-12, 12:23 PM
It is my understanding that the owner's manual recommends that you do not swap the tires side to side. Is this correct? Thanks for your reply!

pmsteinm
05-31-12, 02:39 PM
It does say that and I've never rotated on the V before last week. I swapped the LF and RF PS2's because my LF had a lot of rounding on the shoulder from 3 VIR events and I was trying to stretch its life since the rest of tread is fine. I haven't decided if I feel safe tracking it again but at least this helps with the normal rounding I get from all the hard right turns I do on the way to/from work.

I think the manual is trying to prevent people from swapping the front with the rears.

TriTexan
05-31-12, 04:56 PM
I think the manual is trying to prevent people from swapping the front with the rears.

Actually it is to prevent you from changing the direction of rotation of the tires. My limited understanding of this as explained to me by someone with much more knowledge about tires is that it has to do with the belts...apparently changing the direction of rotation back and forth can potentially cause more problems. I've noticed that all of my local tire shops only swap front to rear and never side to side (unless customer requests it) even when all four tires are the same size. I can only assume this is for some specific reasons. I would also say that this procedure ensures that if you have directional tires that you don't mess things up.

Someone else might have more technical insight than me...

----------


I think the manual is trying to prevent people from swapping the front with the rears.

Actually it is to prevent you from changing the direction of rotation of the tires. My limited understanding of this as explained to me by someone with much more knowledge about tires is that it has to do with the belts...apparently changing the direction of rotation back and forth can potentially cause more problems. I've noticed that all of my local tire shops only swap front to rear and never side to side (unless customer requests it) even when all four tires are the same size. I can only assume this is for some specific reasons. I would also say that this procedure ensures that if you have directional tires that you don't mess things up.

Someone else might have more technical insight than me...

pmsteinm
05-31-12, 05:54 PM
I've heard that too about the belts, but the standard way GM has been having people rotate tires on FWD cars since the '80s involved changing the direction. Obviously if your tires have a directional tread (like my Pilot Sport A/S+ winter tires) you can't rotate without dismounting, which seems like a waste and asking for trouble. Before FWD cars became common tire rotation wasn't even mentioned.

I think that with the V you shouldn't need to rotate (I'd say my case is an expection). The front and rear axle pairs should wear evenly or you have an alignment problem (or take too many right turns like I do). On my 2004 CTS-V I wore both left-side tires almost twice as fast and the right-side because I took a fun turn at 1+ g's twice a day every day for a year.

tedcmiller
05-31-12, 09:08 PM
It has been shown that unless you plan to do a tire rotation yourself (thereby saving the cost of having someone else do the rotation) there is no advantage to rotating the tires. The increase in tire wear due to rotation is more than offset by the cost of the rotation.

In the case of tires with a direction or different size tires front-to-rear (as is true on the 2009+ Vs), rotation should not be done at all. Most cars do not have either and can be rotated in the normal X pattern.

M5eater
05-31-12, 09:28 PM
You can swap tires side to side.

PS2's are NOT directional.

The reality is though, that swapping side to side really makes no difference. That's why alignment is critical on staggered vehicles.

typically you swap F&R due to weight differences and because burning up rear/front tires and turning on the fronts typically causes some extra wear.

You're not doing that here.

tedcmiller
05-31-12, 11:40 PM
M5eater is correct when he says that PS2s are not directional and that side-to-side rotation is OK for Vs. In fact, the owner's manual (at least my 2009 manual doesn't) does not say side-to-side rotation is prohibited. The owner's manual simply says that front-to-back rotation (because of the size difference) is prohibited. I stand by my prohibition against rotation unless you do it yourself.

In any case, the extra wear on either the front or back is caused by the driving force of the engine (more wear on the front tires of a front-wheel- drive car and more wear on the rear of a rear-wheel-drive) not turning. I suppose that an all-wheel-drive would equalize the wear if all-wheel-drive were used all the time. Never having had an all-wheel-drive car I really don't know.

jzchen
06-04-12, 10:53 AM
I think you can get a free rotation at America's Tire, no matter where you bought them, (balancing not included). Also, you can get a free flat repair as well. (I haven't tried in a while though.) For FWD and AWD just switching front to back and back to front is the pattern. For RWD I've seen crossing rotation pattern from one side to the other: front left to rear right, front right to rear left, slide backs to front on same side... I guess it has to do with the dynamics of FWD/AWD vs. RWD. I haven't had issues with our C350 rotating from side to side, (it is staggered as well.) I've heard that changing the direction of rotation causes issues with the belts as well, but I've only rotated them twice so far so I'll update if there is.

Smokin_Cache
06-04-12, 09:06 PM
The manual does not prohibit side to side rotation. Rotation is free so why not get it done? (let me say NOTHING is free!!! I should have said PREPAID!) The roar you hear while braking with worn front tire is generated because of the angled wear on the outer tread. By rotating side to side you end up wearing peaks in the center of the outer tread pattern. Much better feeling and sounding during breaking. This angled wear and subsequent roar is the most to blame for people who put on a new set junk tires and claim they ride better and the road noise level is so much better. Crap I say it's crap!

Rotating tires does not reduce wear it just evens it out a bit.

Aren't those 1G turns wonderful!!

smackdownCTSV
06-04-12, 09:22 PM
Is this the wear you're talking about?

http://img585.imageshack.us/img585/7048/imgp0464.jpg

http://img837.imageshack.us/img837/3594/imgp0470o.jpg

M5eater
06-04-12, 09:28 PM
By rotating side to side you end up wearing peaks in the center of the outer tread pattern. Much better feeling and sounding during breaking.
I'm note quite as savoy in tire tech. Why are peaks good as opposite to what smackdown has photos of?

by peaks do you mean it wears more evenly across the tire?

smackdownCTSV
06-04-12, 10:03 PM
Mine definitely looks like it has a bit too much positive camber. But dealer was adamant about it being "normal" the way it was setup by the factory, and the aggressive suspension, hence the tire clunk/skip/chirp during full wheel lock on cold pavement.

zinner
06-04-12, 10:26 PM
Rotating tires on a car with 220 tread wear doesn't buy you a whole lot :)

Smokin_Cache
06-05-12, 08:28 AM
Rotating tires on a car with 220 tread wear doesn't buy you a whole lot :)

Very true. It just helps with roar and noise.

As for the peaks I was talking about I will go to Walmart in the next few days and take a few pics of some extreme examples of front tire wear with no rotation.

If you are a driver that makes 1G turns in both directions everyday then you will never see the angled wear I am refering to. You will see the outer (sport) half of the P2s disappear evenly. Thus no roar.

Cadillac Cust Svc
06-05-12, 03:42 PM
Hi htompkin,

I see you've received some great feedback so far, and I'd be happy to investigate further for you, if you wish! Please send me an email (Katie_Lucille@gmexpert.com) with the last eight of your VIN and I would be happy to research on your behalf.

Best,

Katie
Cadillac Customer Service