: GM fix for clicking front wheels



flatrockguy
05-24-12, 04:40 PM
My new V sedan with 500 miles started the wheel click and that is not acceptable for a new car. After reading that the problem started back in 09 that really pissed me off, so when I got to work I found the name of one of the CTS-V engineers (vehicle dynamics) and sent him a note. I asked him about the ongoing wheel clicking issue and if there really is a true fix in the works. He responded that the 2 piece rotor is the fix and it will be available in the fourth quarter of this year or earier. He said to check with your dealer every now and then to see if the bulletin is out yet. At least there is a fix.

DangFoo
05-24-12, 05:03 PM
Thank you for the post and I agree that as much is unacceptable whether on a $20K Ford Focus or $70K V, thus glad to hear a solution is forthcoming. I have no wheel click, but hope I can time any upcoming recall or elective "upgrade" with another service visit.

GM-4-LIFE
05-24-12, 05:18 PM
flatrockguy,

Would the 2 piece rotors be installed on the cars affected by the wheel clicking under warranty?

Can you let us know when the TSB is released?

baabootoo
05-24-12, 05:51 PM
I thought guys on here already said that it DIDN'T stop the clicking? Isn't it in the wheel?

thebigjimsho
05-25-12, 11:11 AM
Yep, not a fix.

----------

2 piece rotors are available NOW.

flatrockguy
05-25-12, 03:42 PM
Yes, I'm aware that the 2 piece rotor is available, but not to be used as a warranty replacement for the wheel click. The information I listed above is from a CTS-V engineer take it or leave it!

thebigjimsho
05-25-12, 05:21 PM
Yes, I'm aware that the 2 piece rotor is available, but not to be used as a warranty replacement for the wheel click. The information I listed above is from a CTS-V engineer take it or leave it!

Well, the rotors are already on Vs and the click is still there as documented by members here.

Take it or leave it!

flatrockguy
05-25-12, 05:31 PM
I'm just passing on info from engineer's on the V program if the fix is not correct so be it, don't shoot the messenger! I thought since I have a inside line to the engineering, I would pass on what they are thinking or doing to fix the problem.

GM-4-LIFE
05-25-12, 06:23 PM
flatrockguy,

It is much appreciated! Thanks for the info!

thebigjimsho
05-25-12, 07:05 PM
I'm just passing on info from engineer's on the V program if the fix is not correct so be it, don't shoot the messenger! I thought since I have a inside line to the engineering, I would pass on what they are thinking or doing to fix the problem.

I would want you to pass that along. But, I was just pointing out we've got guys with these rotors and its not helping...

flatrockguy
05-25-12, 07:37 PM
I will respond to the engineer that the 2 piece rotor has not solved the problem for guy's that have swapped them out and see what he say's. Trust me, I want it fixed and I only have 600 miles on my V, so I can't imgine how some of you feel! I understand that it's a sore subject but I may have a (little) inside line that may help us get a fix.. For those who don't live the daily politics of the automotive world, sometimes the most important customer issue is the last item on the to do list of the people who make the calls. It is very frustrating, trust me.

smackdownCTSV
05-25-12, 09:56 PM
TSB released yet or is GM stock piling them before the release?

gevvvvv
05-26-12, 03:19 AM
I had a tire shop remove my wheel, clean and grease the hub and re-install the wheel. The clicking went away but I guess we'll see if it stays this way.

flatrockguy
05-26-12, 07:15 AM
No TSB yet.... Supposedly in the fourth quarter. I believe the 2013 have the 2 piece rotor standard, if so they are probably building up some sort of bank before thr TSB is released.

V locity
05-26-12, 08:51 AM
My dealer solved the wheel clicking @ low speed/full turns with a clean & lube of the rotors... Oohhh! and a 93 mile test drive!

tokyoricebaby
05-26-12, 09:38 AM
how are there members here with the fix if it is not a fix available untill the 4th quarter of this year as per the engineer and the bulletin and the dealers?

My dealer notified me of this service bulletin, and that he would be calling me as soon as it is available.

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Well, the rotors are already on Vs and the click is still there as documented by members here.

Take it or leave it!

How are there members here with the fix if the permanent fix is not available untill the 4th quarter of this year as per the engineer and the bulletin and the dealers?

What op is referring to is not the same as what dealers currently do which is remove the wheel and clean and grease. GM and dealers know this is not full
resolution.

My dealer notified me of this service bulletin, and that he would be calling me as soon as it is available.

GMX322V S/C
05-26-12, 10:49 AM
The original wheel clicking TSB called for cleaning the wheel/rotor mating surfaces with brake cleaner. It didn't help any more than just taking the wheels off and putting them back on, the clicking would be back within a few thousand miles.

The crinkling sound is caused by stiction at the wheel/rotor interface that is amplified by the lightweight yet high-strength design of the wheel itself.

Back in the 70s, I used to use white lithium grease as an anti-seize/corrosion inhibitor on wheel studs and mating surfaces. Other members here have posted that would be a bad idea. Why? Okay, forget the studs (and lug nut mating surfaces), why would putting a thin layer of hi-temp grease on the wheel/rotor mating surfaces be bad?

thebigjimsho
05-26-12, 11:13 AM
how are there members here with the fix if it is not a fix available untill the 4th quarter of this year as per the engineer and the bulletin and the dealers?

My dealer notified me of this service bulletin, and that he would be calling me as soon as it is available.

----------



How are there members here with the fix if the permanent fix is not available untill the 4th quarter of this year as per the engineer and the bulletin and the dealers?

What op is referring to is not the same as what dealers currently do which is remove the wheel and clean and grease. GM and dealers know this is not full
resolution.

My dealer notified me of this service bulletin, and that he would be calling me as soon as it is available.

The "4th quarter fix" is the 2 piece rotor. But they are available now. People here have these 2 piece rotors on the car and are still getting the click.

What the F is so hard to understand about that?

GM-4-LIFE
05-26-12, 11:37 AM
I have said since day 1 that the problem is the wheel design and how it works together with the front hubs. Until GM changes the front wheel design altogether, the front wheel clicking issue will always be present.

thebigjimsho
05-26-12, 11:42 AM
I will say, I don't have the click. Only time I did was when I didn't torque down the wheels hard enough until on the ground...

baabootoo
05-26-12, 11:44 AM
The original wheel clicking TSB called for cleaning the wheel/rotor mating surfaces with brake cleaner. It didn't help any more than just taking the wheels off and putting them back on, the clicking would be back within a few thousand miles.

The crinkling sound is caused by stiction at the wheel/rotor interface that is amplified by the lightweight yet high-strength design of the wheel itself.

Back in the 70s, I used to use white lithium grease as an anti-seize/corrosion inhibitor on wheel studs and mating surfaces. Other members here have posted that would be a bad idea. Why? Okay, forget the studs (and lug nut mating surfaces), why would putting a thin layer of hi-temp grease on the wheel/rotor mating surfaces be bad?

Ever since mine were corroded to the hub, I cleaned it, used AntiSeize on the hub, and torqued them with a calibrated wrench using ARP bolt lube. Not one sound ever.

David Nicholas
05-27-12, 08:25 AM
Curious...

I cleaned and polished my V wheel mating surfaces, added thin coating of silicone grease, (once), and have never heard another click, (2 years and 8000 miles). Had the same problem on a Mercedes and a Dodge, both with aluminum wheels, used the same fix and never heard another click - and only repeated the procedure when I replaced tires..

xlr_x
05-28-12, 12:53 AM
i painted my wheels and never heard the clicking again

tokyoricebaby
05-29-12, 05:59 AM
The "4th quarter fix" is the 2 piece rotor. But they are available now. People here have these 2 piece rotors on the car and are still getting the click.

What the F is so hard to understand about that?

Guess what? They are not available now. Wanna know why, know it all? Cause I was just down at Ed Morse Cadillac to have my clicking wheels cleaned...all the while being told by the service staff to hold tight cause the fix is "on its way".

No wonder you have 41,000 post on this forum. lol You chime in on every little thing thinking you know everything n top of being an ultimate cadillac shill. If you dont have clicking wheels, stfu.

"thebigjimsho" lol gtfo lol

rjoffe
05-29-12, 09:44 AM
That's way off base.

smackdownCTSV
05-29-12, 10:21 AM
Guess what? They are not available now. Wanna know why, know it all? Cause I was just down at Ed Morse Cadillac to have my clicking wheels cleaned...all the while being told by the service staff to hold tight cause the fix is "on its way".

No wonder you have 41,000 post on this forum. lol You chime in on every little thing thinking you know everything n top of being an ultimate cadillac shill. If you dont have clicking wheels, stfu.

"thebigjimsho" lol gtfo lol

LMAO! Good one, but I think he meant they are "available now" for purchase. There is a thread on this by Lindsay.

Bigron
05-29-12, 11:47 AM
I need to figure out how to get this click so I can get some free 2 piece rotors.

smackdownCTSV
05-29-12, 12:09 PM
I need to figure out how to get this click so I can get some free 2 piece rotors.

I'm waiting for mine to come back. I thought with a lot of brake dust build up, it would return, but it didn't.

js615
05-29-12, 03:57 PM
I will say, I don't have the click. Only time I did was when I didn't torque down the wheels hard enough until on the ground...

I'm with Jim on this. I had the click once about 7K miles ago. I had the TSB done and have not had click since. But I'm guessing now that I've posted this, I can expect to hear it on the drive home...

BigDog001
05-29-12, 04:06 PM
I had the clicking at about 3k miles -- took it to the dealer and it has not returned - I am now at 15k -- but the dealer said it most likely would return -- but nothing yet.

flatrockguy
05-29-12, 06:29 PM
FYI... I copied the current TSB from the GM service site...



2012 Cadillac CTS Service Manual | Preliminary Information | Document ID: 2814521
________________________________________
#PIC5136G: Clicking Noise From Front Wheels - (Apr 2, 2012)
Subject:
Clicking Noise From Front Wheels

Models: 2009 - 2012 Cadillac CTS-V

________________________________________
________________________________________
This PI was superseded to update recommended field along with model and model years. Please discard PIC5136F.
________________________________________
The following diagnosis might be helpful if the vehicle exhibits the symptom(s) described in this PI.
Condition/Concern:

A customer may comment on a clicking noise emanating from the front wheels. This condition is noticed at low speed (walking speed) during full wheel lock turns on dry clean pavement (Full lock parking lot maneuver). The clicking noise is generally noted as approximately 1 to 4 "clicks" per wheel revolution.
The CTS-V has lightweight high performance front rotors with an aluminum center. The clicking sound is caused by interaction between the wheel mounting face and wheel mounting surface on the brake rotor caused by the aluminum-to-aluminum interface. With properly mounted wheels, and the wheel nuts torqued to specification, this “clicking” is NOT a safety issue. Until a permanent solution is released, a cleaning process is recommended as a regular maintenance item for those vehicles with this concern.


Important: A permanent solution has been developed, and should be available in the fourth quarter of 2012, until then the cleaning process is recommended as a regular maintenance item.The cleaning maintenance procedure described below should be performed as required at each oil change per the Oil Life Monitor system (approximately every 7500 miles) or whenever tires are replaced. This cleaning process is added to the 2011 - 2012 Cadillac Premium Care Maintenance Program. For 2009-2010 CTS-Vs, the cleaning procedure should be used if the customer is dissatisfied with the noise, and should be performed at tire replacement and/or at oil changes.

Recommendation/Instructions:

Complete the procedure below on both front wheels; it is not necessary to clean the rear wheels for the "clicking" condition.

Note: Do NOT replace the Front wheel or brake rotor for the clicking condition.
Procedure:
1. Remove wheel
2. Clean wheel as follows:
2.1 Use clean cloth dampened with GM Brake Parts Cleaner 12378556 (in Canada, P/N 88901247) or equivalent.
2.2 Wipe the mounting surface of the wheel to remove any residual grey or black material that has accumulated on the wheel mounting surface. Be careful not to use the Brake Cleaner on the painted or clear coated surfaces of the wheel. It is also helpful to use a Scotch-Brite Cleaning Pad to aid in cleaning. Be sure NOT to use the scotch pads (Roloc disc) on the aluminum material. All cleaning MUST be done by hand, do NOT use ANY air or power tools!
3. Clean the rotor top hat as follows:
3.1 Use clean cloth dampened with GM Brake Parts Cleaner 12378392 (in Canada, P/N 88901247) or equivalent.
3.2 Clean the wheel mounting surface of the rotor (rotor top hat) to remove any residual grey or black material that has accumulated on the rotor. During the cleaning process be sure to clean the rotor near the wheel pilot at the center of the rotor. It is also helpful to use a Scotch-Brite Cleaning Pad to aid in cleaning. Be sure to NOT use scotch pads (Roloc discs) on the aluminum material. All cleaning MUST be done by hand, do NOT use ANY air or power tools!
4. Reinstall wheels

Note: Be sure to thoroughly dry the wheel and rotor prior to installation on vehicle. The wheel nuts should be tightened to a service torque of 215Nm (158 ft-lbs). Note that this torque specification is different from what is stated in SI, and the higher torque should be used only when performing this cleaning procedure.
Warranty Claim Information:
For 2011 - 2012 CTS-Vs, refer to the latest Cadillac Premium Care Maintenance program information for the labor operation to be used.
For 2009-2010 CTS-Vs, use Labor Operation:
H9752 - Clean Mating Surfaces of Wheel and Rotor to Correct Noise Concern (includes both sides)
Labor Time = .2 hour

Note: This time was developed with the expectation that this cleaning procedure is being performed at the time of regular oil changes or tire replacements.
ADDITIONAL SI KEYWORDS:
click tire tick ticking
Please follow this diagnostic or repair process thoroughly and complete each step. If the condition exhibited is resolved without completing every step, the remaining steps do not need to be performed.
GM bulletins are intended for use by professional technicians, NOT a "do-it-yourselfer". They are written to inform these technicians of conditions that may occur on some vehicles, or to provide information that could assist in the proper service of a vehicle. Properly trained technicians have the equipment, tools, safety instructions, and know-how to do a job properly and safely. If a condition is described, DO NOT assume that the bulletin applies to your vehicle, or that your vehicle will have that condition. See your GM dealer for information on whether your vehicle may benefit from the information. WE SUPPORT VOLUNTARY TECHNICIAN CERTIFICATION
© 2012 General Motors. All rights reserved.

JamesGJones
11-21-12, 05:32 PM
See PIC5136B:Clicking Noise from Front Wheels ('09-'10 CTS-V) it superseeds PIC5136A

It has recommendations to dealers to remove the front wheels and clean the rotor top hat (wheel mounting surface) using GM Brake Parts Cleaner. If that doesn't work replace with new wheel part numbers 20951880 (painted) or 20951881 (polished) which have a revised mounting surface

toofire
11-21-12, 09:55 PM
I also experienced the wheel clicking, my dealer said that fix was to replace and re-torque all of the Lug nuts. The dealer replaced and raised the torque foot pounds of Lug nuts and so far after a few hundred miles no clicking. I'm keeping my fingers crossed!

RapidRob
11-21-12, 10:12 PM
^^^^

Yep - I do believe it's been revised beyond PIC5136J already, which was to replace the front rotors. I also heard, the latest fix for clicking front wheels was replacing the lug-nuts, etc., but I don't know the PIC# ...

Rob

rrollins
11-22-12, 12:20 AM
Thanks for this. I've been experiencing this recently. Bought my '11 V after one owner and thought he/she may have abused it. No sound when I test drove several times but had it pulling out of driveway lately. Any other advice before bringing it in?

chrisfox75
11-22-12, 08:03 AM
They cleaned the surfaces on my 2011, replaced the lugnuts with an updated version and retorqued, 500 miles no issues. Happy this was fixed, felt my nerve pulling out of a parking spot in a nice cadillac that sounded that a hunk of crap...

theamcguy
11-22-12, 01:56 PM
The latest TSB is PIC5136N the fix is now all new lug nuts (20) and a revision of the torque to 110 ft lbs. 136K stopped replacing rotors and replaced front lug nuts only torqued to 110 ft lbs, 136L updated to all 20 lug nuts and torque to 150 ft lbs, then 136N specifies all 20 lug nuts but drops the torque back down to 110 ft lbs. I have not seen a copy of 136M

tedcmiller
11-24-12, 11:49 PM
The latest GM fix for the clicking wheels is a change in the wheel lug nuts. Supposedly the angle of the nut interface to the wheel is changed. Will this fix the clicking? We shall see. In any case, the clicking is not a saftey issue so the fix has taken a backseat, so to speak. I had some clicking about 5000 miles, but the recall of my car for the rear nuts eliminated the clicking.

Trapspeed
11-25-12, 07:49 AM
The new rotors (when they were doing that) have solved my clicking so far. I guess I'll wait to see if new lugs are in my future one day.

neuronbob
11-25-12, 08:24 AM
The ultimate solution for clicking in my case was just switching from winter to summer wheel sets, as surface is cleaned at the time of the changeover and lug nuts retorqued. I had clicking early in my 2009 ownership (literally, in 2009), but have not had it since.

masy
11-26-12, 10:29 AM
Hello CTS-V Coupe owner... I have my 2011 with the same noise. Did you get an official response from GM.? If yes, please be so kind to pass it to me.
Best regards,
MASY from Chile

kaoz
03-14-13, 03:23 PM
Had all service bulletins done clicking is back. Seems worse.. Any updates on these? Can the replace the wheels someone mentioned they have a new surface?

BigJoeD
06-30-14, 04:04 PM
I have a 2013 V Coupe and I have an appointment with my dealer on 7/1 to get this problem resolved. We'll see what happens. I have aftermarket wheels and its lowered.

Trapspeed
06-30-14, 04:23 PM
I have a 2013 V Coupe and I have an appointment with my dealer on 7/1 to get this problem resolved. We'll see what happens. I have aftermarket wheels and its lowered.

I'm guessing they see the aftermarket wheels and send you packing but I hope I'm wrong.

neuronbob
06-30-14, 10:31 PM
I dunno about that. I bet they clean the mating surface and remount. It's not that hard to do.

Trapspeed
06-30-14, 11:05 PM
I dunno about that. I bet they clean the mating surface and remount. It's not that hard to do.

Think they'll take that stance even on aftermarket wheels? I guess you never know. I'm interested to hear how this ends up.