: Transmission



SDRN
05-17-12, 02:28 AM
I'm sure there are different opinions out there, but which tranny is better, manual or auto?

SoonerSpeedFreak
05-17-12, 02:31 AM
Hhmmmmm!!!!!

TriTexan
05-17-12, 02:39 AM
Oh no....here we go.

SDRN
05-17-12, 02:49 AM
Does one seem to cause more problems than the other? I prefer a manual transmission, but I'm open. Not trying to cause a pissing match. Thank you for any help.

Trapspeed
05-17-12, 08:14 AM
Oh no....here we go.

Seconded. Everyone...step away from the keyboard. :stirpot:

TriTexan
05-17-12, 09:22 AM
Does one seem to cause more problems than the other? I prefer a manual transmission, but I'm open. Not trying to cause a pissing match. Thank you for any help.

Then I would say keep this a personal choice. Going with the recommendations of other very passionate owners isn't likely to yield the results that will make YOU the happiest. If you like a manual, go with it. GM has done sufficient testing with either option and you have a warranty if anything happens to either one. It's probably more about how you drive it and care for it that will affect problems down the road.

hulksdaddy
05-17-12, 09:49 AM
Best tranny is the one you want.

M5eater
05-17-12, 09:54 AM
Does one seem to cause more problems than the other? I prefer a manual transmission, but I'm open. Not trying to cause a pissing match. Thank you for any help.

for stock purposes theres no difference. once you start making power is where things get harry for the auto.

quikag
05-17-12, 11:15 AM
Both are very good and stout transmissions. I went with auto because I have the manual in the Vette. If I only had one car, I would go with the manual as I like rowing gears, but for a daily driver the CTS-V auto is a good way to go when a "fun" weekend car is in the garage.

SDRN
05-17-12, 11:46 AM
Thank you for the responses and help.

thebigjimsho
05-17-12, 01:05 PM
Don't listen to them. Manual is best. Everyone knows it. The auto blows chunks...

cdog533
05-17-12, 01:15 PM
Manual is more fun. Auto typically is quicker in the 1/4 mile.

Crystal Red CTS-V
05-17-12, 02:02 PM
Either transmission is very reliable - it's all about personal preference. No bad choices here.

nynd
05-17-12, 02:13 PM
Manual - think of it this way, lighter and half the gas guzzler tax = more money for your mods.

DarkStar76
05-17-12, 05:20 PM
I went with Manual... but I've never bought an automatic, so I have no way to compare. Oddly... driving home last night, I had 3rd gear *just* below redline for about 15-20 seconds.... the Transmission light on the dash lit up, and my traction control toggled itself on and off... I got off the gas for a bit, and then had no other problems.. so far today it hasn't acted funny... I'm guessing if the light came on, the computer has a record, so I'll have my dealer check it out... hopefully it isn't a major issue... :S

SoCalCTSV
05-17-12, 05:35 PM
I was looking for a manual daily driver. Caddy wasn't even in the running but I didnt want a Mustang or Camaro and did not want to own a German car. My last manual was an E34 but holy hell the seats were rock hard. I swapped the sport seats out and missed the support but not the thigh blasting I got from the concrete hard bolsters.

I remembered seeing ads for the Caddy. I wasn't ready for an old man car but when I saw the Coupe, I was sold.

DangFoo
05-17-12, 06:18 PM
I live just outside one of the most densely populated areas in the US [7.5 Million people packed into the Bay Area; feels like Mumbai at times]. If I had no commute and bouts of sitting in traffic, then I could appreciate the manual, but alas it's not realistic in my world.

I've owned and enjoyed manuals and obviously owned and enjoyed automatics. I'd say it comes down to what you expect from the driving experience coupled with your surroundings and intended use (e.g. daily driver in the City or weekend fun car). I happen to think manuals are more fun, so my "practical" choice to go automatic was a bit of a compromise for me; not going to lie or try to frame it any other way.

jessrayo
05-17-12, 06:40 PM
Most of the time I love the manual. Sometimes it is irritating. Had a kid just graduated from college with his doctorate come work in our office and he heard I had let some of the other employees take my car for a ride. He asked if he could drive it and I said can you drive a manual, he said, "Sure, you mean with paddles on the steering wheel right?" I said no, anyway he still has never driven a vehicle with a clutch.

I got pulled over by a police officer on a hill and after I stopped I flipped the e-brake and then reached forward to dig my proof of insurance out of the glove box. Well the e-brake is electronic on the manual and it sucks!!! Needless to say I rolled back into the cop and he was pissed. No damage, at least not to the car. No tolerance from the cop who thought I hit him on purpose.

It is a drag in stop and go traffic and you get stuck with the worst ebrake ever. But when you want to drive hard, there is nothing like that manual.

Pphilthy
05-17-12, 06:44 PM
Manual offers a fun factor that is missed with the auto, but the auto is faster and a pleasure to drive in any condition...

M5eater
05-17-12, 07:24 PM
You know, I could spew pages of reading material on the subject, but the bottom line is this;

I've owned 3 GM sports sedans in the last 3 years. Two of them were 6L80/90E transmission vehicles and 1 was a 6060. I only have 1 of them left, and only one of them reminds me of the car that I had the most fun of my life in, only one makes me roll down the window and listen to it snarl, backfire and howl, makes me shift down another gear for the hell of it, and the other two? They made me want to see how far I could make the MPG creep up.

I read it before just like other people trying to decide on the subject, but I never really appreciated it until I had a 6060 vehicle; it's a totally different car. A 6L90E V2 is a very good car, it's probably more akin to what the whole idea of a super sedan is supposed to be, but the manual? That's for those people that bought a V2 just because the idea of a 556hp sedan was crazy, not necessarly because they needed the extra doors.

Mike02z
05-17-12, 07:51 PM
You know, I could spew pages of reading material on the subject, but the bottom line is this;

I've owned 3 GM sports sedans in the last 3 years. Two of them were 6L80/90E transmission vehicles and 1 was a 6060. I only have 1 of them left, and only one of them reminds me of the car that I had the most fun of my life in, only one makes me roll down the window and listen to it snarl, backfire and howl, makes me shift down another gear for the hell of it, and the other two? They made me want to see how far I could make the MPG creep up.

I read it before just like other people trying to decide on the subject, but I never really appreciated it until I had a 6060 vehicle; it's a totally different car. A 6L90E V2 is a very good car, it's probably more akin to what the whole idea of a super sedan is supposed to be, but the manual? That's for those people that bought a V2 just because the idea of a 556hp sedan was crazy, not necessarly because they needed the extra doors.

Could not have said it any better. Agree 100%.

Vwagon2012
05-17-12, 09:15 PM
Are you married? Does she know how to use a manual? If not, Auto. I have an auto. I'm married. Can't have them grinding through the gears.

thebigjimsho
05-17-12, 10:18 PM
Honestly, the don't want to drive a manual in traffic argument is one of the stupidest ever.

Are you in constant 1-2mph where all you do is lift off the brake and then back on? Doubtful. What's the difference in moving one foot all the time and two? Give me a break.

It's not an effort thing, its a mental thing. You mentally weak fools...


lol

Stillborn
05-18-12, 01:27 AM
I've always said you're not really driving if it's not a stick. until now. more than half of my 28 cars (and counting) were manual. this car made me decide to go auto for several reasons. it's faster, you have no possibility to miss-shift, you have 3 modes of driving (auto, firing off wheel shifts at will, and slap shifting up/dwn on the center console simulates a stick) i'm glad i didn't get the manual this time around. now i can utilize the car in EVERY facet of it's abilities...with a stick you're stuck with rowing and all that implies. the choice is easy once you put some thought into it.

SoCalCTSV
05-18-12, 01:27 AM
Honestly, the don't want to drive a manual in traffic argument is one of the stupidest ever.

Are you in constant 1-2mph where all you do is lift off the brake and then back on? Doubtful. What's the difference in moving one foot all the time and two? Give me a break.

It's not an effort thing, its a mental thing. You mentally weak fools...

lol

I fall asleep in autos and I have shitty traffic. Yesterday it took me 90 min to go 30 miles. No big deal. I could have taken three other cars that were autos but I didn't want to be bored.

SDRN
05-18-12, 01:48 AM
Are you married? Does she know how to use a manual? If not, Auto. I have an auto. I'm married. Can't have them grinding through the gears.

Or they just win't drive the car.

Mike02z
05-18-12, 08:09 AM
My wife can't drive a stick. So I have 2 manual cars. My V and my vette :)

thebigjimsho
05-18-12, 09:04 AM
I fall asleep in autos and I have shitty traffic. Yesterday it took me 90 min to go 30 miles. No big deal. I could have taken three other cars that were autos but I didn't want to be bored.

I like your style.

M5eater
05-18-12, 09:08 AM
Honestly, the don't want to drive a manual in traffic argument is one of the stupidest ever.

Are you in constant 1-2mph where all you do is lift off the brake and then back on? Doubtful. What's the difference in moving one foot all the time and two? Give me a break.

It's not an effort thing, its a mental thing. You mentally weak fools...


lol

as somone who's made that argument and lives in the second worst traffic area on the east coast (hampton roads/ i64 parking lot.. google it)

I can say the argument has no ground to stand on the V2's. clutch is light, and you could basicly dump it and still not stall the car, I don't even use the gas to start rolling anymore infact. 1st is tall enough that you don't even need constant 1-2 shifting up to 20mph or so, which is ~ what most traffic gets up to before you're slaming back on the brakes.

JFJr
05-18-12, 12:03 PM
Does anyone know of a better manual transmission setup for a car that has as much torque as the "V"? The clutch, shifter and throttle response are balanced very well. The manual car is faster (191 vs. 175) but the automatic is a little quicker 0-60. Bear in mind that this car was designed for a high speed road course, not the drag strip. Transmission choice is very personal.

Jud

jessrayo
05-18-12, 12:22 PM
Honestly, the don't want to drive a manual in traffic argument is one of the stupidest ever.

Are you in constant 1-2mph where all you do is lift off the brake and then back on? Doubtful. What's the difference in moving one foot all the time and two? Give me a break.

It's not an effort thing, its a mental thing. You mentally weak fools...


lol

Well I guess you guys don't have construction that bottlenecks multiple lanes into one and causes back-ups where you live, but I just spent 20 minutes on the interstate a few days ago where I never got out of first gear, for probably 10 minutes I never touched the gas pedal, Let the clutch out and idle until I start to run up on the car in front, push the clutch and hold until traffic roll gets above 2 mph, release clutch and idle until rolling up on car in front, push clutch and put in neutral until traffic resumes forward motion...on and on for 10 minutes. I don't know if the DOT in other states is better but we frequently have all traffic ground to a halt for an accident or construction. If I can even idle in first I'm fine but the damn stop and go irritates me. I actually said in my head "I wish I had an auto trans." Now once I'm moving, there is no comparison...I'm so glad I did not compromise and get the auto!

thebigjimsho
05-18-12, 01:05 PM
Don't turn to the wuss side!

allinmyhead
05-18-12, 01:38 PM
I just came from a 2012 Mustang GT with a manual; I wished I'd asked this same question before I bought it. The 6spd manual in that car is a garbage pail. Weak syncros and poor shifter box mount design that leads to missed/blocked shifts.

I typically find a manual is less fatiguing in stop and go because you don't have to keep constant pressure on the brake against auto-creep. Pop it in neutral with just a touch of pressure on the brake.

That said, I went auto this time (wife requirement, don't ask). It's not the best auto I've driven recently, but it's not bad.

baabootoo
05-18-12, 08:25 PM
Forbes, Facebook, and Halliburton took a survey, and the auto won hands down.

Mike02z
05-18-12, 08:44 PM
Forbes, Facebook, and Halliburton took a survey, and the auto won hands down.

Of course it did. I would expect the auto to win. Certainly the majority of buyers prefer the auto. Even the Corvette, a sports car, sells many more autos than sticks.

Vwagon2012
05-18-12, 09:07 PM
Does anyone know of a better manual transmission setup for a car that has as much torque as the "V"? The clutch, shifter and throttle response are balanced very well. The manual car is faster (191 vs. 175) but the automatic is a little quicker 0-60. Bear in mind that this car was designed for a high speed road course, not the drag strip. Transmission choice is very personal.

Jud The auto is limited. You can take the limit off.

M5eater
05-18-12, 09:20 PM
The auto is limited. You can take the limit off.
the limiter is there to keep the clutch basket from exploding. It wouldn't be a great idea to just take the limiter off.

JFJr
05-18-12, 09:20 PM
Forbes, Facebook, and Halliburton took a survey, and the auto won hands down.Consider the sources and then the results. WTF! Why would anyone care about their opinions? No one will be influenced by that. The totally-controlled car is down the road. Is that what you want?

Jud

garfin
05-18-12, 09:47 PM
You know, I could spew pages of reading material on the subject, but the bottom line is this;

I've owned 3 GM sports sedans in the last 3 years. Two of them were 6L80/90E transmission vehicles and 1 was a 6060. I only have 1 of them left, and only one of them reminds me of the car that I had the most fun of my life in, only one makes me roll down the window and listen to it snarl, backfire and howl, makes me shift down another gear for the hell of it, and the other two? They made me want to see how far I could make the MPG creep up.

I read it before just like other people trying to decide on the subject, but I never really appreciated it until I had a 6060 vehicle; it's a totally different car. A 6L90E V2 is a very good car, it's probably more akin to what the whole idea of a super sedan is supposed to be, but the manual? That's for those people that bought a V2 just because the idea of a 556hp sedan was crazy, not necessarly because they needed the extra doors.


You have a great way with words... and I'm totally on the same page in terms of perspective. I'm 62 and learned the ins and outs of driving a manual when I was 8 - albeit on a tractor... but what the hell...

I've always had a manual car in the stable and I always will. For me, it's just the way it's supposed to be, and it always will be. Maybe I'm a control freak and I just plain don't wanna give that up - 'cuz for me, giving up that level of control to the universe, is an admission of "giving in" (or dare I say it, defeat). Yeah, it involves that degree of passion. Don't ever wanna lose that!

But what the heck - that's just my perspective on things...

I had a lesson at the end of March that put things in perspective... with the incredible opportunity to drive the ZR1 'Vette and both the automatic and manual ZL1 Camaro on the track at Spring Mountain Motorsports Ranch in Pahrump, Nevada. I just hope the '13 V gets the same 6L90E that's in the ZL1!... but that's a whole 'nuther story!

At the end of our event, I rode shotgun with Ron Fellows for 10 min. or so on that track in the ZL1 and OMFG, this guy is simply an artist with a car - and he uses the shifter as his paint brush. Hell, after all of my years driving a manual, I've been priviledged to experince the pinnacle - and I can totally appreciate a new challenge at this stage of my life!! I'm sure I'll never be able to make a manual car "dance" the way Ron showed me how it could be done, but it sure gives me somethin' to shoot for!

Such is the joy for me of a manual transmission car. I'll always embrace the challenge of expanding my limits and abilities!

...just not sure how I could attack that same challenge that I love so much in a car with an A6.

Best regards,

Elie

Club Malibu
05-18-12, 09:49 PM
as somone who's made that argument and lives in the second worst traffic area on the east coast (hampton roads/ i64 parking lot.. google it).

M5Eater, is that your red sedan I saw parked up front near one of the LHD's?

M5eater
05-18-12, 09:59 PM
M5Eater, is that your red sedan I saw parked up front near one of the LHD's?
sorry, only ever had the Black diamond and the current blue one. Although we do have a few friends around the Hampton roads area on here.

Pphilthy
05-18-12, 10:06 PM
This thread is pretty amusing... I currently own both manuals and automatic cars, so I really had no biased towards one or the other... When I decided to purchase my V I looked at the performance stats, the auto was faster in both 0-60 and 1/4... So I went with the faster version... 175mph on the streets is more than enough to end any of your street racing fetishes... Do you even realize how much straight road you're going to need to hit those speeds and you are a complete jackass for doing it...

Now I agree the manual gives you a better driving experience, but you are slower in the car...

M5eater
05-18-12, 10:19 PM
does it really matter the auto is 2 tenths faster in light of 4.2second CLS550's and 3.7second S6's and M5's?

The V2 is no longer king of the hill, transmission choice won't change than when you're eating quattro or bimmer dust.

thebigjimsho
05-18-12, 11:11 PM
Wow, the auto is .1 quicker 0-60.

:yawn:

hulksdaddy
05-19-12, 12:16 AM
Amazes me how many feel they need to justify their choice, or say how their choice is "better".

Only person I give a sh*t about what they think about my car is me.

captapp
05-19-12, 02:19 AM
Don't listen to them. Manual is best. Everyone knows it. The auto blows chunks...
I have to agree with Jim even though he dissed me a while back for my Gen 1 SHO, which was the best. It might be because I have not owned an automatic for many years but I test drove one and I just felt out of control, I want to row the gears not press a little paddle. Most importantly, the wife won't drive an automatic.

Pphilthy
05-19-12, 09:52 AM
Wow, the auto is .1 quicker 0-60.

:yawn:

I've seen automatics hit 3.9-4.1 0-60 consistently - most manuals are 4.3 or 4.4 and that's with a professional driver - 99% of you manual guys are much slower... Adding HP just makes you slower on the street because it gets harder to launch...

So funny to see the manual guys try and defend the fact that they are slower - lol. Yawn!

M5eater
05-19-12, 10:14 AM
I've seen automatics hit 3.9-4.1 0-60 consistently - most manuals are 4.3 or 4.4 and that's with a professional driver - 99% of you manual guys are much slower... Adding HP just makes you slower on the street because it gets harder to launch...

So funny to see the manual guys try and defend the fact that they are slower - lol. Yawn!
Your arguments are invalid from someone that's had experience with both vehicles sir, and I won't go into the details for the sake of time, there are a plethora of reasons for someone that wants to acutally search this forum to have a look at the whole picture. That's all I'm saying.

Chrispy
05-19-12, 10:26 AM
Manual for me...save the manuals! ;)

M5eater
05-19-12, 10:28 AM
Manual for me...save the manuals! ;)
I'm sure it's been mentioned somewhere on here, but their campaign seemed to work
http://www.njstateauto.com/auto-news/Use-of-Manual-Transmission-on-the-Rise2119.htm

JFJr
05-19-12, 10:58 AM
Manual transmission and automatic transmission cars of the same model and year are really quite different, so it's more of a car choice than a transmission choice. The sound and feel are different, and the driving philosophy of the pilot determines the choice.

SoCalCTSV
05-19-12, 11:40 AM
I just came from a 2012 Mustang GT with a manual; I wished I'd asked this same question before I bought it. The 6spd manual in that car is a garbage pail. Weak syncros and poor shifter box mount design that leads to missed/blocked shifts.

I typically find a manual is less fatiguing in stop and go because you don't have to keep constant pressure on the brake against auto-creep. Pop it in neutral with just a touch of pressure on the brake.

That said, I went auto this time (wife requirement, don't ask). It's not the best auto I've driven recently, but it's not bad.

There is an epidemic if men buying sports cars but they wives are dictating auto over manual. I have seen due to :

1) it's her trust fund paying
2) it's her purse that his balls are in


Don't get your panties in a bunch. I don't care what trans you have. I just find it funny how someone - even your wife can dictate that.

Pphilthy
05-19-12, 11:58 AM
Your arguments are invalid from someone that's had experience with both vehicles sir, and I won't go into the details for the sake of time, there are a plethora of reasons for someone that wants to acutally search this forum to have a look at the whole picture. That's all I'm saying.

What arguments are invalid... ? That the auto
is faster...? That's called a fact, nothing to debate...

And before some of you people call me less of a man for choosing an auto transmission or saying that my wife made me do it - lol, I own a few manual cars so go try that crap on someone else...

Again, it's a subjective opinion choosing the manual trans - not an objective one based on performance data...

marktanner
05-19-12, 12:10 PM
I'll add my two cents. While the auto consistently E.T.s a tiny bit faster than the stick, the stick almost always has a higher trap speed in the quarter mile. GM specs the stick as faster 0-60 as well. What does this mean? The stick, if PERFECTLY launched and shifted, is quicker than the auto. In the real world, perfectly launching this beast is a bitch. Therefore, in most people's hands and feet, the auto is a wee bit quicker. Do I care? Not a bit. I didn't buy the car to drag-race it. If I did, I would have bought the automatic.

I personally don't like automatics, as I have never driven one that thinks like I do. Even the best learning-transmission computers can't change algorithms as fast as my brain can, so I just get frustrated during changing conditions. I can go from granny mode to race mode in the blink of an eye, no switch required. I can be super smooth, or fire off rapid shifts, whenever I want to. I can skip gears as I need to, and I can pre-plan for corners by heal-and-toe downshifting when I feel like it. I know exactly when the gear is engaging, because I just let the clutch out, and I don't have to wait for some computer to do it. Ergo, I have total control over the car, which I don't feel I have in an auto.

I also enjoy the extra fuel economy of the stick, and I enjoyed saving the $1300 gas guzzler penalty. Of course, your mileage may vary. The transmission is beefy, the clutch reasonably light, and the shifter is light and accurate, with moderate throws. Plus, with all the torque, you won't have to down shift as much as with most cars, though you might want to, because it's so much fun. All that said, a stick isn't for everyone, and it's great to have a choice!

Pphilthy
05-19-12, 12:22 PM
I'll add my two cents. While the auto consistently E.T.s a tiny bit faster than the stick, the stick almost always has a higher trap speed in the quarter mile. GM specs the stick as faster 0-60 as well. What does this mean? The stick, if PERFECTLY launched and shifted, is quicker than the auto. In the real world, perfectly launching this beast is a bitch. Therefore, in most people's hands and feet, the auto is a wee bit quicker. Do I care? Not a bit. I didn't buy the car to drag-race it. If I did, I would have bought the automatic.

I personally don't like automatics, as I have never driven one that thinks like I do. Even the best learning-transmission computers can't change algorithms as fast as my brain can, so I just get frustrated during changing conditions. I can go from granny mode to race mode in the blink of an eye, no switch required. I can be super smooth, or fire off rapid shifts, whenever I want to. I can skip gears as I need to, and I can pre-plan for corners by heal-and-toe downshifting when I feel like it. I know exactly when the gear is engaging, because I just let the clutch out, and I don't have to wait for some computer to do it. Ergo, I have total control over the car, which I don't feel I have in an auto.

I also enjoy the extra fuel economy of the stick, and I enjoyed saving the $1300 gas guzzler penalty. Of course, your mileage may vary. The transmission is beefy, the clutch reasonably light, and the shifter is light and accurate, with moderate throws. Plus, with all the torque, you won't have to down shift as much as with most cars, though you might want to, because it's so much fun. All that said, a stick isn't for everyone, and it's great to have a choice!

So in a perfect world with perfect conditions and a perfect launch, the manual could in theory match the auto's times, but guess what, in the real world, the auto has the fastest 0-60, 1/4 mile times and the fastest holy grail of road racing bragging rights, the fastest time around the Green Hell!

So again, the manual may provide a better driving experience for some and is slower...

DangFoo
05-19-12, 12:33 PM
Back to the OP; I strongly recommend driving both. If I had Bill Gates' money or a desire to eat into my retirement fund, then I'd buy a Couple Vs - one with each tranny. The fact that respective owners enjoy the setup they have is testament to GM doing a good job on both trannies; we couldn't always say that on the old Camaros and Vettes.

Enjoy those test drives!

JFJr
05-19-12, 12:42 PM
Maybe if we had a separate sub-forum for the drag racers we could avoid these no-win, circular arguments.

Jud

M5eater
05-19-12, 01:00 PM
So in a perfect world with perfect conditions and a perfect launch, the manual could in theory match the auto's times, but guess what, in the real world, the auto has the fastest 0-60, 1/4 mile times and !


In the real world, the 6L90E is expensive to modify, it's a nightmare to tune, it misses shifts in stock form, and you could spend $4K on a built trans and have it explode on you. But your right, when it's working right, it's quicker (note I didn't say faster) in a quarter mile. I have no counter-points for you there, and the drag strip is clearly the only form of motorsports in existiance, so there are no other opportunities to compare it to.

the fastest holy grail of road racing bragging rights, the fastest time around the Green Hell
you have a 6MT V2 nurburgring run reference? Link?

edit;

you know what nevermind. I don't care. Hulk is right.

marktanner
05-19-12, 01:05 PM
As far as the 'Ring time goes, Heinricy drove the automatic because he had been driving it all week during development, and didn't know the shift points for the manual well at that track. I have driven the 'Ring, and you don't want any surprises while going all out there. for sure! He has stated publicly that he prefers the stick. It was during an interview where he explained why he drove the automatic for the record run. He was in a stick at Monticello, at the time, as I recall.

BTW, while a quicker ET is QUICKER, the trap speed determines which is FASTER. The trap speeds of the stick are almost always higher, and therefore faster, than the automatic. The time is quicker, because of a better launch, shifting, etc. At very high speeds, the stick is undoubtedly faster, due to the lower weight and lower drive-train losses. This means nothing on the street, unless you live in Germany. Unless you are drag racing, does it really matter which is quicker or faster? It should really be down to driving preference. In lower powered cars, sticks are always faster, and you can tell on the street in normal traffic, but not with these cars. Bragging rights mostly.

FLTRI
05-19-12, 01:32 PM
Amazes me how many feel they need to justify their choice, or say how their choice is "better".

Only person I give a sh*t about what they think about my car is me.

Exactly...

Pphilthy
05-19-12, 02:12 PM
As far as the 'Ring time goes, Heinricy drove the automatic because he had been driving it all week during development, and didn't know the shift points for the manual well at that track. I have driven the 'Ring, and you don't want any surprises while going all out there. for sure! He has stated publicly that he prefers the stick. It was during an interview where he explained why he drove the automatic for the record run. He was in a stick at Monticello, at the time, as I recall.

BTW, while a quicker ET is QUICKER, the trap speed determines which is FASTER. The trap speeds of the stick are almost always higher, and therefore faster, than the automatic. The time is quicker, because of a better launch, shifting, etc. At very high speeds, the stick is undoubtedly faster, due to the lower weight and lower drive-train losses. This means nothing on the street, unless you live in Germany. Unless you are drag racing, does it really matter which is quicker or faster? It should really be down to driving preference. In lower powered cars, sticks are always faster, and you can tell on the street in normal traffic, but not with these cars. Bragging rights mostly.

Cadillac sent over a complete team and multiples drivers and both auto and manual cars all for one purpose, to set the fastest lap! The auto set that fast lap!

Yeah, I believe that he may prefer the manual, but that's not what set the fastest lap...

I also prefer a manual every once in awhile and I have the opportunity to choose anytime I want... But be honest with yourself, auto's dominate the drag strip and in road racing on a competitive level, you are switching over to a dog box...

M5eater
05-19-12, 02:21 PM
edit;
arguging with you is pointless with responses like that.

JFJr
05-19-12, 02:48 PM
But be honest with yourself, auto's dominate the drag strip and in road racing on a competitive level, you are switching over to a dog box...Nothing like being dogmatic. Ha haa!

Jud

Pphilthy
05-19-12, 02:55 PM
edit;
arguging with you is pointless with responses like that.

Sorry if I'm completely unbiased and happen to own all different types of cars - you aren't debating with some clues newb to fast cars... but in typical Internet fashion, when someone loses or fails to be able to have a honest objective debate, they resort to name calling or just walk away - bye bye

----------


Nothing like being dogmatic. Ha haa!

Jud

They aren't opinions, they are facts... No big deal though, why are you manual guys getting all worked up for...?

thebigjimsho
05-19-12, 04:51 PM
I have to agree with Jim even though he dissed me a while back for my Gen 1 SHO, which was the best. It might be because I have not owned an automatic for many years but I test drove one and I just felt out of control, I want to row the gears not press a little paddle. Most importantly, the wife won't drive an automatic.

Despite your love for the second best gen SHO, I like your opinions above. And your wife is awesome.

----------




Cadillac sent over a complete team and multiples drivers and both auto and manual cars all for one purpose, to set the fastest lap! The auto set that fast lap!

Yeah, I believe that he may prefer the manual, but that's not what set the fastest lap...

I also prefer a manual every once in awhile and I have the opportunity to choose anytime I want... But be honest with yourself, auto's dominate the drag strip and in road racing on a competitive level, you are switching over to a dog box...

Auto transmissions in road racing? Drivel.

----------

Oh, and I rarely street race from a dig. Usually, its a 50-1something run on the highway. No auto can save you there...

Moneypenny
05-19-12, 05:16 PM
I don't understand why people get bent out of shape over a personal choice. The only cars I have ever bought new for myself, starting with my 1993 Saturn SW1 (80 horsepower. 80!!) through to my 2012 CTS-V have been manual transmission station wagons. Why? Because that's the car I want. For me, for example, an auto-trans CTS-V coupe is a car not even on my radar to buy. Ever. That said, if that's the car someone reading this has bought *because that's the car they wanted to get*, then I will smile, shake their hand, and congratulate them on getting the ride they wanted. Transmission is a personal choice that is so far beyond my rights to criticize that it's not even funny. Buy what you want and enjoy it, and I'll enjoy seeing you happy.

Pphilthy
05-19-12, 06:23 PM
Despite your love for the second best gen SHO, I like your opinions above. And your wife is awesome.

----------



Auto transmissions in road racing? Drivel.

----------

Oh, and I rarely street race from a dig. Usually, its a 50-1something run on the highway. No auto can save you there...

Reading comprehension owns you - I said dog box... But the new auto transmission are changing that as well...

Given that you're a street racer, I see your overall judgement and intellect... But I still shall point out that you can not shift faster than an auto can :)

JFJr
05-19-12, 07:46 PM
Personal attacks don't work here, only the facts. If anyone wants to argue and distort the facts, he is not on the right forum.

Jud

thebigjimsho
05-19-12, 07:54 PM
Reading comprehension owns you - I said dog box... But the new auto transmission are changing that as well...

Given that you're a street racer, I see your overall judgement and intellect... But I still shall point out that you can not shift faster than an auto can :)

I can see by your ego massaging where your intellect is...

JimmyH
05-19-12, 08:18 PM
Manual for me...save the manuals! ;)

I have a "save the manuals" shirt.

Pphilthy
05-19-12, 09:30 PM
I can see by your ego massaging where your intellect is...

Best you got, another baseless attack...? You're so cool mr street racer... lol

thebigjimsho
05-19-12, 09:52 PM
Best you got, another baseless attack...? You're so cool mr street racer... lol

Aww, look. It's Mr. Hypocritical. Hey Mr. H, take a look at the post I was responding to. Turnabout is fair play.

Looks like reading comprehension owns you, you toolbag...

----------

And, also, I said I raced on the highways. And at night, when its empty. If you're going to make snide remarks about my intellect because of that, you better never leave your house, you pansy...

Pphilthy
05-19-12, 09:56 PM
Aww, look. It's Mr. Hypocritical. Hey Mr. H, take a look at the post I was responding to. Turnabout is fair play.

Looks like reading comprehension owns you, you toolbag...

----------

And, also, I said I raced on the highways. And at night, when its empty. If you're going to make snide remarks about my intellect because of that, you better never leave your house, you pansy...

I see you're a Internet tough guy... Try and justify your street racing, but to me, you're no better than anyone else racing on public roads... Street racing is stupid and you're a retard if you do it in any condition...

hulksdaddy
05-20-12, 03:15 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sONfxPCTU0

thebigjimsho
05-20-12, 03:47 AM
I see you're a Internet tough guy... Try and justify your street racing, but to me, you're no better than anyone else racing on public roads... Street racing is stupid and you're a retard if you do it in any condition...

Actually, you were the first with the personal attack. Just because you got called out on it, I'm the internet tough guy? You're an idiot.

Pphilthy
05-20-12, 09:46 AM
Actually, you were the first with the personal attack. Just because you got called out on it, I'm the internet tough guy? You're an idiot.

Don't play the victim and try to recreate history, just go read this thread again - you started off by calling people wussie's - and then again with your 'YAWN' comment when an factual statement was made that the auto is faster...

You have issues - mr I'm a cool street racer...

----------


Don't turn to the wuss side!

Oh - your the victim - lol. Maybe you should just stop acting like an ass to other forums members that just don't agree with you...

Gary Wells
05-20-12, 10:18 AM
Cad CTS-V2 automatic versus manual trans data (as of 01-02-2012):

Manual trans (M6): Tremec TR6060 6 speed manual,
fully synchronized with single overdrive (MG9):
Gear ratios (:1) 1st: 2.66, 2nd: 1.78, 3rd: 1.30, 4th: 1.00,
5th: 0.80, 6th: 0.63, final: 3.73, reverse: 2.90

Gas Guzzler (GG) tax of $1300, or half that of the A6
Faster by 16 MPH (191 MPH versus 175 MPH (governed))
A tad slower in the 1/4 & on the street
A tad better mileage than the auto but probably not significant
About 32 more RWHP than an A6 on average as measured on a Dynojet
About 27 more RWTQ than an A6 on average as measured on a Dynojet
About 95 lbs lighter that the auto
No remote start feature
Has “no lift-shift” feature


Automatic trans (A6): Hydra-matic 6L90E 6 speed
electronically controlled automatic overdrive with
torque converter clutch (MYD): Gear ratios: (1:) 1st:
4.03, 2nd: 2.36, 3rd: 1.53, 4th: 1.15, 5th: 0.85, 6th: 0.67,
final: 3.23, reverse: 3.06

Gas Guzzler (GG) tax of $2600, or twice that of the M6
Slower by 16 MPH (175 MPH (governed) versus 191 MPH)
A tad quicker in the 1/4 & on the street
A tad worse mileage than the manual but probably not significant
About 32 less RWHP than an M6 on average as measured on a Dynojet
About 27 less RWTQ that an M6 on average as measured on a Dynojet
About 95 lbs heavier that the manual
Remote start feature
Normal mode initially starts in 1st gear, then starts in 2nd gear thereafter
Manual mode starts in 1st gear always

About 1 in every 6 ’09 CTS-V’s were manual trans (M6) in '09, not sure
about later years.

Chrispy
05-20-12, 10:30 AM
I saw an interview with the test pilot where he said he drove the auto because he was worried about making a mistake with the manual and they did a ton of track specific trans tuning that week. They were also running out of time to finish testing that session.

Personally I think both trans are comparable with top speed going to the manual and consistency to the auto. :)

SoonerSpeedFreak
05-20-12, 08:07 PM
I new this would be an interesting thread....LMAO.

My opinion. I have never every bought or thought of buying a sports car or muscle car with out a STICK. That's crazy. My opinion.
BUT I did buy my CTS-V with an AUTO! Main reason I bought the AUTO was it's a CADDIE. And I have a 25 year old girlfriend who would be driving it probably more than me! So my thoughts now? The stick is way way more fun to drive. This AUTO is so "slow-shifting" in all modes. Slap, normal, or paddle. Slap mode and paddle are pretty dam cool tho. They just need to shift harder and faster. No chirp in 2nd or 3rd is just silly. Not that that makes it faster. Just cooler in my opinion. My mom and dad had many new caddies as I was a kid growing up. So driven many. This auto shifts like the caddies did in 1985- 1990! Just smooth. To smooth in a muscle car for my taste. Owning this V has completly changed my mind about a caddie or what a muscle car is. Cause the V is a serious muscle car!
Positive note the auto is great. And is probably over all faster. This will always be an arguement just as Chevy VS. Ford or anything else.
"Can't we all just get along" LMAFO

thebigjimsho
05-21-12, 01:52 PM
Don't play the victim and try to recreate history, just go read this thread again - you started off by calling people wussie's - and then again with your 'YAWN' comment when an factual statement was made that the auto is faster...

You have issues - mr I'm a cool street racer...

----------



Oh - your the victim - lol. Maybe you should just stop acting like an ass to other forums members that just don't agree with you...You took this thread from good natured ribbing to somewhere else. I don't see anyone else's panties getting all up in a bunch. For some reason you're different. You're special.

FLTRI
05-21-12, 02:03 PM
Arguing on the Internet is like competing in the Special Olympics.

Even if you win, you're still retarded...

thebigjimsho
05-21-12, 02:09 PM
I always win. :alchi:

pmsteinm
05-21-12, 02:28 PM
I went with Manual... but I've never bought an automatic, so I have no way to compare. Oddly... driving home last night, I had 3rd gear *just* below redline for about 15-20 seconds.... the Transmission light on the dash lit up, and my traction control toggled itself on and off... I got off the gas for a bit, and then had no other problems.. so far today it hasn't acted funny... I'm guessing if the light came on, the computer has a record, so I'll have my dealer check it out... hopefully it isn't a major issue... :S

When you say transmission light do you mean the check engine light? If it was flashing that means you had a misfire. I had that happen to me several times since 2009, finally it happened consistently a couple months ago (sitting in 3rd behind a mini-van at 64.9999mph waiting to pass, when I got on the gas: misfire + traction control message). Repeated 3 times in a row. Took it in and the tech found misfire even at idle. It wasn't enough to turn on the light, but the idle was slightly rough and the misfire counter was going up on a couple of cylinders. They replaced spark plugs because 1 was cracked, and did an injection cleaning under warranty.

If you had a misfire there should still be a stored code.

jessrayo
05-21-12, 03:08 PM
What arguments are invalid... ? That the auto
is faster...? That's called a fact, nothing to debate...

And before some of you people call me less of a man for choosing an auto transmission or saying that my wife made me do it - lol, I own a few manual cars so go try that crap on someone else...

Again, it's a subjective opinion choosing the manual trans - not an objective one based on performance data...

That auto may be faster in New Jersey but if you come out here to Oklahoma where we have a lot of open spaces and you have to go to a city to even find a traffic light, the only thing that determines who is fastest is the size of your kahones and where your limiter kicks in, I whip M5's, AMG's and I'll whip your auto on my turf because even if you remove the limiter you will loose a lot more power to that auto transmission at top speed. Unlike you city folk I actually need 6th gear because I bump the limiter in 5th frequently. We don't race in town, that is silly when you can go out into the open spaces and cut loose.

hulksdaddy
05-21-12, 03:41 PM
^^Watch out for cows. :thumbsup:

JimmyH
05-21-12, 07:00 PM
I was in OK a couple times. They do have ALOT of cows there.

Pphilthy
05-21-12, 07:37 PM
That auto may be faster in New Jersey but if you come out here to Oklahoma where we have a lot of open spaces and you have to go to a city to even find a traffic light, the only thing that determines who is fastest is the size of your kahones and where your limiter kicks in, I whip M5's, AMG's and I'll whip your auto on my turf because even if you remove the limiter you will loose a lot more power to that auto transmission at top speed. Unlike you city folk I actually need 6th gear because I bump the limiter in 5th frequently. We don't race in town, that is silly when you can go out into the open spaces and cut loose.

And here I thought this was the Cadillac forums with mature people - you guys are right, you would win on the street because I don't street race - you guys are too fast and furious for me... lol. You're all too cool for me with doing +175mph on public road ways... I stand by all of my previous posts and all I hear from you folks is complete juvenile statements... I pray you just take your own life and not that of any poor innocent person or cow on the road...

Drive safe street racers... Pathetic!

----------


You took this thread from good natured ribbing to somewhere else. I don't see anyone else's panties getting all up in a bunch. For some reason you're different. You're special.

lol - you can sure dish it out, but you have the thinnest skin around when it comes back to you... I should take note of others and just ignore you as well...

JFJr
05-21-12, 09:14 PM
lol - you can sure dish it out, but you have the thinnest skin around when it comes back to you... I should take note of others and just ignore you as well...Wow! I've never heard such nonsense in all my life. It's time to take the gloves off; you've been warned. Go back to school and get your high school diploma and then come back. This isn't a forum for frustrated and bored teenagers. You don't have any credibility here; move on and find a more appropriate forum for your frustration, this isn't it.

SoonerSpeedFreak
05-21-12, 11:01 PM
That auto may be faster in New Jersey but if you come out here to Oklahoma where we have a lot of open spaces and you have to go to a city to even find a traffic light, the only thing that determines who is fastest is the size of your kahones and where your limiter kicks in, I whip M5's, AMG's and I'll whip your auto on my turf because even if you remove the limiter you will loose a lot more power to that auto transmission at top speed. Unlike you city folk I actually need 6th gear because I bump the limiter in 5th frequently. We don't race in town, that is silly when you can go out into the open spaces and cut loose.
I'll be your huckleberry......at the track quarter or eigth. Might even let my girlfriend drive....:stirpot:

SoCalCTSV
05-22-12, 12:23 AM
Bought this car - mine in manual - with zero intention to drag or street race. Maybe once a year at Willow Springs. Like said earlier, manual was primary selling point. Adult vehicle was secondary. Unfortunately, some one you have taken the adult out of it in this thread. You're all a bunch of idiots to argue here. It's a fantastic car regardless what trans you have. Quit acting like a bunch of pathetic teenagers in a Mustang message board. Enjoy your auto. Enjoy your manual. No one gives a shit why you think one is better than the other. If you have to ask, you should NOT buy either.

JimmyH
05-22-12, 01:39 PM
I thought about closing this thread, but it's just too funny.

Pphilthy
05-22-12, 09:58 PM
Wow! I've never heard such nonsense in all my life. It's time to take the gloves off; you've been warned. Go back to school and get your high school diploma and then come back. This isn't a forum for frustrated and bored teenagers. You don't have any credibility here; move on and find a more appropriate forum for your frustration, this isn't it.

lol - what are you ranting about...? You keyboard commandos are too funny..

JimmyH
05-22-12, 11:10 PM
lol - what are you ranting about...? You keyboard commandos are too funny..

http://www.cooleywire.com/jimmyh/pics/funny/potkettle.jpg

You have been here five minutes and made a dozen enemies. Please restrain yourself before the restraining is done for you. Thank you.

hulksdaddy
05-22-12, 11:18 PM
http://www.cooleywire.com/jimmyh/pics/funny/potkettle.jpg

.

That's racist...:stirpot:

;)

JimmyH
05-22-12, 11:20 PM
Only if your pots are silver. Mine are baby blue. Not sure why. Other than they are Martha Stewart collection.

Pphilthy
05-22-12, 11:26 PM
You have been here five minutes and made a dozen enemies. Please restrain yourself before the restraining is done for you. Thank you.

Enemies...? HAHA do what you need to do...

hulksdaddy
05-22-12, 11:27 PM
Only if your pots are silver. Mine are baby blue. Not sure why. Other than they are Martha Stewart collection.

J, you should really ban yourself for a posting a Martha Stewart reference on CF.

Just saying'.....:alchi:

JimmyH
05-22-12, 11:33 PM
I'm married. I didn't buy them. When I cook, i still use the old ass stainless steel, non-teflon pot we have. And she knows better than to get rid of it.

thebigjimsho
05-23-12, 12:07 PM
Mission accomplished...

JFJr
05-23-12, 04:09 PM
J, you should really ban yourself for a posting a Martha Stewart reference on CF.I hear that Aunt Martha may be assisting in the design of the inevitable pink Mary Kay version of the "V" to attract more female owners.

SoCalCTSV
05-23-12, 06:36 PM
This is what manual drivers have been reduce to.

http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/7852/imagevbz.jpg


http://jalopnik.com/5910513/yes-its-ethical-to-drive-a-stick-shift

thebigjimsho
05-23-12, 09:24 PM
They all burn gas.

Kmajecki
05-24-12, 12:50 AM
I hear that Aunt Martha may be assisting in the design of the inevitable pink Mary Kay version of the "V" to attract more female owners.

I betcha it's an auto ;)

Xaqtly
05-24-12, 02:00 PM
This is what manual drivers have been reduced to.


http://jalopnik.com/5910513/yes-its-ethical-to-drive-a-stick-shift

Yeah hopefully nobody here is claiming manuals are actually evil. And that idiotic article is actually trying to claim that manuals are "unethical" because autos get better MPG. But in the CTS-V, autos get worse MPG than manuals. It's different in every car. And nobody bought this car for its MPG, regardless of transmission choice. You might as well say that driving ANY car is "unethical", based on the logic this guy is using.

JimmyH
05-24-12, 04:29 PM
I find it amusing that jalopnik is actually criticizing someone else's work. Those who live in glass houses...

hulksdaddy
05-24-12, 06:04 PM
I find it amusing that jalopnik is actually criticizing someone else's work. Those who live in glass houses...

...buy a lot of Windex.