: Katech heads/cam package?



06BlackV
05-14-12, 11:57 PM
Whats up fellas , im looking to get this package done soon

http://www.katechengines.com/performance/vehicles/v1-cts-v/

Anybody have any input as far as the overall performance gain, is there another route i can take? Or what else should i do if i get this done to improve the my performance?. I have the ls2 motor, any input or advice would be greatly appreciated.

D3l7a3ch0
05-15-12, 12:20 AM
awesome, heads/cam/exhaust will be my next big purchase as well

...but not for 5 grand...

06BlackV
05-15-12, 12:22 AM
awesome, heads/cam/exhaust will be my next big purchase as well

...but not for 5 grand...

I agree that 5 grand is a little steep, but i dont have time to do it myself and i know katech is one of the best out there.. Not too many reputable shops out here in michigan.

D3l7a3ch0
05-15-12, 12:38 AM
I have a connect at a local shop that only works on LS engines and vettes. I'll let you know what they say--I've been meaning to ask for what they have around. I'm in Los Angeles.

06BlackV
05-15-12, 12:43 AM
Ok let me know , thanks man

pato
05-15-12, 12:44 AM
There is much better options than the GM hotcam in that package.

06BlackV
05-15-12, 12:48 AM
There is much better options than the GM hotcam in that package.

I want to keep the drivability as much as possible, i dont want to go too aggressive with the cam , ive talked to a guy who has worked at katech and he told me the drivability is excellent with the gm cam, and it puts out good numbers. What are other options out there? If u dont mind sharing

D3l7a3ch0
05-15-12, 01:14 AM
like, the neighborhood of 600 with heads and cam. I'm looking for something around 550

I thought about the driveability, too, and my buddy with the M5 thinks it ruins the V as a "date car". I disagree completely--if a girl is in the car, you do -not- lose.

the driveability is a handful already--I had to make a light this morning, and the V tried to eat me in 2nd gear. maybe I've learned to goose the throttle from having broken motor mounts for 2 years, and that caused me to stick my foot in it a little excessively...

...but that blurring acceleration, I've only experienced that on a motorcycle. I want more of that, and any girl I'm out with should enjoy that too.

I'm all for driving a monster in a tuxedo.

06BlackV
05-15-12, 02:09 AM
like, the neighborhood of 600 with heads and cam. I'm looking for something around 550

I thought about the driveability, too, and my buddy with the M5 thinks it ruins the V as a "date car". I disagree completely--if a girl is in the car, you do -not- lose.

the driveability is a handful already--I had to make a light this morning, and the V tried to eat me in 2nd gear. maybe I've learned to goose the throttle from having broken motor mounts for 2 years, and that caused me to stick my foot in it a little excessively...

...but that blurring acceleration, I've only experienced that on a motorcycle. I want more of that, and any girl I'm out with should enjoy that too.

I'm all for driving a monster in a tuxedo.

I dont think u can achieve 550 with just heads and cam :/ i think around 500 is a more reasonable number but i could be wrong,

yooper
05-15-12, 02:50 AM
Whats up fellas , im looking to get this package done soon

http://www.katechengines.com/performance/vehicles/v1-cts-v/

Anybody have any input as far as the overall performance gain, is there another route i can take? Or what else should i do if i get this done to improve the my performance?. I have the ls2 motor, any input or advice would be greatly appreciated.

The ctsv picture on Katech's website belongs to forum member crankedupforit. I have chased that car all around Road America and it pulls like a freight train in 4th gear.

D3l7a3ch0
05-15-12, 02:56 AM
I dont think u can achieve 550 with just heads and cam :/ i think around 500 is a more reasonable number but i could be wrong,

well... with intake/exhaust/tune. you're working with 6 liters, man. the shop owner has an N/A LS2 that dyno'd 605/590? might be 580 torque.

I was thinking... doesn't this belong in performance upgrades?

06BlackV
05-15-12, 05:29 AM
well... with intake/exhaust/tune. you're working with 6 liters, man. the shop owner has an N/A LS2 that dyno'd 605/590? might be 580 torque.

I was thinking... doesn't this belong in performance upgrades?

Like i said i could be wrong with my opinion, hopefully i hit at least 500 to the wheels with this upgrade. And yes its in the wrong section , i accidentally posted in the general discussion :Noobmistake:

crankedupforit
05-15-12, 02:02 PM
Katech may be a little more pricey, but they are quite well known for their build quality. That's my LS6 in the picture which now has a few more upgrades. As far as the Hotcam goes it performs very well in midrange torque which is a good thing for the heavier V and with a lower lift and a higher overlap, it's a great road course cam. Here is an article on how the Hotcam stacks up to some of the other popular street cams in an LS3. http://www.gmhightechperformance.com/tech/lsx_engine/0911gmhtp_chevy_ls3_engine_camshaft_comparison/index.html The donkey dick cams the dyno freeks like to run will beat the LS6 valve train to death after one season of track days so the Hotcam seemed to be a good choice for me.. That being said there are certainly alot of other good cam choices for you. With this setup expect about 420 rwhp on an eddy current dyno.

lollygagger8
05-15-12, 02:25 PM
Hit up Tony Mamo from AFR on the l s 1 tech forum. I'm dealing with him right now as I type this. He's the f'n man when it comes to massaging heads/intakes and whatnot. He will lead you down the correct path.

D3l7a3ch0
05-15-12, 09:13 PM
my numbers from the LA shop are similar to Lingenfelter. I'm thinking about going Lingenfelter. maybe. for the name.

2grand for heads including valves and springs, and cam. supposedly makes 550 without tune, 600ish with. price doesn't include cores

OneFast V
05-15-12, 10:39 PM
my numbers from the LA shop are similar to Lingenfelter. I'm thinking about going Lingenfelter. maybe. for the name.

2grand for heads including valves and springs, and cam. supposedly makes 550 without tune, 600ish with. price doesn't include cores

The driveability making that kind of power must be terrible. And I have yet to see any Na v1 with an ls2 or ls6 make more than 480whp

D3l7a3ch0
05-15-12, 10:55 PM
are you trying to get me to do this, because it's working. and there's a first time for everything, you know.

JD03Cobra
05-15-12, 11:43 PM
Not too many reputable shops out here in michigan.

The guys over at Stenod Performance in Troy are fantastic. I wouldn't go anywhere else.

OneFast V
05-16-12, 12:12 AM
are you trying to get me to do this, because it's working. and there's a first time for everything, you know.

By all means go for it. It would be cool to see a Na v1 make that kind of power. I just think they must be sacrificing a lot of something to make that kind of power.

D3l7a3ch0
05-16-12, 01:49 AM
yeah, sure. comfort. like the hydro motor mounts.

06BlackV
05-16-12, 03:24 AM
By all means go for it. It would be cool to see a Na v1 make that kind of power. I just think they must be sacrificing a lot of something to make that kind of power.

I agree. Realistically , heads with a mild cam and a maggie is a better route to take to get that much power and have decent drivability rather than going all out NA with horrible idle, mileage, etc.

D3l7a3ch0
05-16-12, 04:07 AM
i don't believe in forced induction, and only after strenghtening the bottom end... pistons and valve train

I didn't want to mention that, because a lot of people have bolted on forced induction with the stock internals--and they track it. and then post to ask why they're experiencing motor failures and bad symptoms. that's something else I won't do (track it), I think it's just beating on the car.

I think the forced induction of a mild cam is their way of keeping it cadillac/consumer friendly. something else I'm not worried about.

I'm heading to the shop Thursday to talk about duration and specific numbers--asking through my connect would be frustrating, and it's better to go myself now that I'm interested enough.

I might even ask to work there.

what happened to hot rodding, do people not want to make the driveability compromise anymore? it sounds like people think loping is a bad thing.

06BlackV
05-16-12, 06:14 AM
i don't believe in forced induction, and only after strenghtening the bottom end... pistons and valve train

I didn't want to mention that, because a lot of people have bolted on forced induction with the stock internals--and they track it. and then post to ask why they're experiencing motor failures and bad symptoms. that's something else I won't do (track it), I think it's just beating on the car.

I think the forced induction of a mild cam is their way of keeping it cadillac/consumer friendly. something else I'm not worried about.

I'm heading to the shop Thursday to talk about duration and specific numbers--asking through my connect would be frustrating, and it's better to go myself now that I'm interested enough.

I might even ask to work there.

what happened to hot rodding, do people not want to make the driveability compromise anymore? it sounds like people think loping is a bad thing.

With the heads and cam upgrade , the pushrods, springs , valves etc will also be replaced .,,, as far as the bottom end needing upgrades with a maggie...no, the ls engines have solid bottom ends. But abuse on any motor will eventually do it harm (over revving, missing shifts etc) thats on the drivers terms.

CTSV_510
05-16-12, 10:21 AM
i don't believe in forced induction, and only after strenghtening the bottom end... pistons and valve train

I didn't want to mention that, because a lot of people have bolted on forced induction with the stock internals--and they track it. and then post to ask why they're experiencing motor failures and bad symptoms. that's something else I won't do (track it), I think it's just beating on the car.

I think the forced induction of a mild cam is their way of keeping it cadillac/consumer friendly. something else I'm not worried about.

I'm heading to the shop Thursday to talk about duration and specific numbers--asking through my connect would be frustrating, and it's better to go myself now that I'm interested enough.

I might even ask to work there.

what happened to hot rodding, do people not want to make the driveability compromise anymore? it sounds like people think loping is a bad thing.

Were you high when you wrote this?

I definitely wouldn't say that a lot of people bolt on forced induction and track their cars then complain about motor failures. I don't recall that happening to anyone here, plus the ones that do track their cars tend to know quite a bit about the proper way to setup a car for it. And don't knock those that do, they are well aware of the risks and toll it can take on their cars, they do it because they want to. They own the car they can beat on it if they want. I haven't heard one of those guys complain about breaking anything. Even your signature says "break so I can upgrade you!" With that attitude I wouldn't think you would be so sensitive about your car or anyone else's for that matter.

Nothing happened to hot rodding, people just choose to go about it in different ways. It's not 1970 anymore, we're not driving carbureted Camaros. With forced induction you don't have to make driveability comprimises if you don't want to, you have an option. If you daily drive your vehicle, you wouldn't want a big ass lopey cam because it's annoying to drive around everyday in traffic. If you have a car as a toy, sure you would like a loud obnoxious barely idling motor. My next car will be a z06 and it will be just that, but for my V I chose a supercharger because it has been my daily driver for the past 5 years. It's too bad you don't believe in forced induction, I guess you wouldn't want a V2? They don't have forged pistons or anything like that.

It is not at all the majority of people that choose to setup their cars to keep it "cadillac/consumer" friendly. For the most part people do what they want, and what they want isn't right or wrong for anyone else.



well... with intake/exhaust/tune. you're working with 6 liters, man. the shop owner has an N/A LS2 that dyno'd 605/590? might be 580 torque.

I was thinking... doesn't this belong in performance upgrades?

If you think the driveability of your car is a "handful" now, you won't like a heads/cam package with a huge cam. And don't expect 550 rwhp or anything even close to 600. I think you're confusing crank HP with wheel HP, and the LS2 that you said made 600 rwhp, it was not stock displacement.


my numbers from the LA shop are similar to Lingenfelter. I'm thinking about going Lingenfelter. maybe. for the name.

2grand for heads including valves and springs, and cam. supposedly makes 550 without tune, 600ish with. price doesn't include cores

You won't find a heads and cam package for $2k that will make 550 even with a tune, and will most likely not run without a tune. I think you're way off base here.

All that being said, you could be the first to come back and report 550 rwhp with a heads/cam stock displacement LS2. Do it!

06BlackV
05-16-12, 10:51 AM
^^couldn't agree more.

Ask Ronr, he had his maggie put in at 8k miles and hes over 100k spirited miles and still going strong.

Claimslngr
05-16-12, 11:49 AM
As said above, with heads, cam, headers and tune even with a LS2 you will be extremely fortunate to make 435-450 on a competent dyno. With the work I have done (heads, cam, forged, stroked, intake, headers, underdrive pulley, and injectors I couldn't make 500 to the ground. Our cars have a high drivetrain loss and I don't see a stock bottom doing over 475 on our cars.
This being said I hope hope make those numbers, but remember the dyno is a heartbreaker!

Good Luck!

D3l7a3ch0
05-16-12, 02:58 PM
what did I miss?

I knew my forced induction opinion was going to get people. I still think it amounts to car abuse.

so wait... rwhp and hp aren't the same thing/interchangeable??? <--(that's just a troll) I'm only looking to up the power of the motor, and not about the numbers coming out the back. I'm staying open minded, and I appreciate the feedback.

and no I wasn't high--I've been sober for a year. though I still use chewing tobacco

I'll keep you posted, I'm pulling the trigger on this soon.

Claimslngr
05-16-12, 03:18 PM
Congrats on the sobriety!

D3l7a3ch0
05-16-12, 04:11 PM
right? I had no choice over in Iraq, then decided to continue with it when I got back.

OneFast V
05-16-12, 06:08 PM
i don't believe in forced induction, and only after strenghtening the bottom end... pistons and valve train

I didn't want to mention that, because a lot of people have bolted on forced induction with the stock internals--and they track it. and then post to ask why they're experiencing motor failures and bad symptoms. that's something else I won't do (track it), I think it's just beating on the car.

I think the forced induction of a mild cam is their way of keeping it cadillac/consumer friendly. something else I'm not worried about.

I'm heading to the shop Thursday to talk about duration and specific numbers--asking through my connect would be frustrating, and it's better to go myself now that I'm interested enough.

I might even ask to work there.

what happened to hot rodding, do people not want to make the driveability compromise anymore? it sounds like people think loping is a bad thing.

couple things..

Most people that buy the V1 have a good understanding that this is a track tuned car and not a straight line racer. If i wanted a straight line racer i would of bought a mustang or camaro. and if i wanted a car that was just to cruise around in i would get a base CTS. The V1 makes a good compromise between civil road manners and a fast fun car, that is what I believe is one of its biggest appeals.

upgrading a Valvetrain also induces more stress on the engine. one example: Stiffer valve springs now require more pressure to open the valves and can lead to failures.

Forced induction is generally chosen because for the most part it is not as labor intensive as a full head+cam and valvetrain job and with the mp112 it is a low boost known to be reliable blower with a 36k warranty.

I'm all for people exploring new avenues of making big power and I look forward to hearing about your build. For me however, the mp112 was the best choice for me for power,reliability and driveablility. good luck with your build

D3l7a3ch0
05-17-12, 12:39 AM
thanks. rather than dyno numbers, my goal is kill my roomie's M5 with heads and cam. I'll probably go with forged pistons just for down the road. it's going to involve a full motor disassembly. I have about 5 weeks before my summer classes start. I'll post what I find out tomorrow after visiting this LS/Vette shop.

http://i.imgur.com/Ej6Ce.jpg

Claimslngr
05-17-12, 08:50 AM
If your putting pistons in then put a stroker crank in. At that point it's pretty cheap cubic inches which translates into HP.

I know it's more work but, you are in mod hell!

D3l7a3ch0
05-17-12, 02:38 PM
not at all, I was going to replace bearings and pistons anyway.

CTSV_510
05-17-12, 03:42 PM
If your putting pistons in then put a stroker crank in. At that point it's pretty cheap cubic inches which translates into HP.

I know it's more work but, you are in mod hell!


not at all, I was going to replace bearings and pistons anyway.

There ya go, now you're talking. If you're pulling the engine then stroke that badboy to a 402/408 or something and you'll get your 500+ rwhp and eat up your roommate's m5. :thumbsup:

D3l7a3ch0
05-17-12, 04:50 PM
yes I'm thinking 402 with 10.9 compression. I don't want to thin the walls and I don't want to stroke more than square

cam3439
05-18-12, 03:08 PM
couple things..

Most people that buy the V1 have a good understanding that this is a track tuned car and not a straight line racer. If i wanted a straight line racer i would of bought a mustang or camaro. and if i wanted a car that was just to cruise around in i would get a base CTS. The V1 makes a good compromise between civil road manners and a fast fun car, that is what I believe is one of its biggest appeals.

upgrading a Valvetrain also induces more stress on the engine. one example: Stiffer valve springs now require more pressure to open the valves and can lead to failures.

Forced induction is generally chosen because for the most part it is not as labor intensive as a full head+cam and valvetrain job and with the mp112 it is a low boost known to be reliable blower with a 36k warranty.

I'm all for people exploring new avenues of making big power and I look forward to hearing about your build. For me however, the mp112 was the best choice for me for power,reliability and driveablility. good luck with your build

^^+1. I did the maggie with B&B catted full exhaust and CAI then achieved 460rwhp/440rwtq. What a night and day difference, and it's an awesome DD.

So, what's the average drivetrain loss percentage that people are seeing? I'd like to calc. crank hp.

06BlackV
05-18-12, 04:07 PM
Im taking my car to Katech on monday for them to inspect a strange light knocking sound from the bottom end when i have a load on engine , its very light sound so the tech at katech wants to inspect it. After i find out what that is , (nothing major i hope) , then i will most likely go ahead with a tvs supercharger, after reading a bunch of different topics and posts about the drivability of NA vs Maggie, im leaning more toward the forced induction. Ill keep you guys posted.

CTSV_510
05-18-12, 05:31 PM
^^+1. I did the maggie with B&B catted full exhaust and CAI then achieved 460rwhp/440rwtq. What a night and day difference, and it's an awesome DD.

So, what's the average drivetrain loss percentage that people are seeing? I'd like to calc. crank hp.

The maggie does make a great dd.

V1's typically dyno around 330-340 stock so about 16% loss. With our maggies that puts us around 530/510 crank.

OneFast V
05-19-12, 12:29 PM
The maggie does make a great dd.

V1's typically dyno around 330-340 stock so about 16% loss. With our maggies that puts us around 530/510 crank.
I wish our drivetrains were that efficient. I think we are much closer to a 18-20% loss.

D3l7a3ch0
05-19-12, 06:52 PM
I disagree, and I think you just want your crank numbers to be bigger

you're not supposed to measure from that far back... *cough* :-D

darkman
05-19-12, 07:46 PM
The maggie does make a great dd.

V1's typically dyno around 330-340 stock so about 16% loss. With our maggies that puts us around 530/510 crank.


I wish our drivetrains were that efficient. I think we are much closer to a 18-20% loss.

You are both right.

Assuming 400 crank horsepower and 335 rear wheel horsepower the parasitic loss is 65 horsepower. In terms of a %, the 65 horsepower is 19.4% of the 335 rwhp but 16.25% of the 400 crank horsepower. So the correct % depends on whether you grossing up a rwhp number or netting down a crank horsepower number.