: Is it really worth this?



Sandy
11-26-04, 01:06 PM
A new ordered STS with the "G" Package, the Performance/Handling Package, XM Satellite Radio, Adoptive Cruise Control, All Wheel Drive and Red-Line Paint color has a MSRLP of $70,000.00.
That puts it into new territory, not formerely occupied by a Cadillac branded sedan or coupe. It shares this lofty pricing arena with the likes of some pretty respected hardware, such as the Jaguar S-Type "R" and the XJ, the Audi A8 (Okay, base model) and the BMW 745i. A decent Mercedes S-430 is also in the playground. For $15,000 less a new Volvo S80 Premier Elite offers an on-board 'Fridge, and dual DVD's in the backside of the headrests and many other refinements, including the first usage of a "4 C Chassis".

I know on here, Cadillacs reign supreme, "out there" in the outback, the name's of Jaguar, BMW & Mercedes stir the souls of the Hondapeople and the Toyotapeople, in ways the name Cadillac just doesn't. I own a Cadillac (1993) bought brand new, as well as a 2003 Town Car, bought brand new. When I told people what I had bought, both times, more than a couple said, "Hey, did you look at a Lexus?" -or- Man, for what you paid for that, you could had a BMW 5-Series..... So, will the cash monied COD on the desk buy the STS, or pause to look and head over to the A8, XJ, 7-series cars ????? Will the STS be on THOSE people's shopping list's, or will it be avoided? I am talking nationwide, not the people on here. On here, I KNOW the answer !!!!

60 special
11-26-04, 07:25 PM
I hate to say this as a Seville owner and having driven a new V-8 STS, but for an honest comparison of cars before anyone buys a STS, drive a BMW 5 Series.

majax
11-26-04, 08:31 PM
Are you saying the 5 is better?

STS tops out at $60,000 Sandy.

The only issue I would have buying it is that I could get a CTS-V with more hp. So what are you paying for in the STS? The technology(though no fridge), and high techis my kind of Cadillac not that I don ot love the CTS-V. I have never heard someone say that "you could of got a BMW for the $." Sorry they have said that to you, just remember(IMO) most the people who say that will prob never own and BMW or Cadi.

I don't know a lot of people would greatly dig a Volvo.

My Toyota friend hates German cars "they are total crap"

Ralph
11-26-04, 08:39 PM
A new ordered STS with the "G" Package, the Performance/Handling Package, XM Satellite Radio, Adoptive Cruise Control, All Wheel Drive and Red-Line Paint color has a MSRLP of $70,000.00.
When I told people what I had bought, both times, more than a couple said, "Hey, did you look at a Lexus?" -or- Man, for what you paid for that, you could had a BMW 5-Series.

It's worth it to the people who really want one. Those prices you quote are in Canadian territiry! A DTS starts at 70k. I know many people who will NEVER drive a Lexus or BMW regardless of how good they might be.

I don't think Cadillac is behind MB, for example, concerning option availabitity. On another thread I mentioned that now Cadillac has the ventilated seats (previously a MB offering) keyless touch and go ignition, and the list goes on. There are options offered like Night Vision, etc. that are not available on some European and Japanese luxury cars, etc. Technology wise, safety might be better with the offering from MB with "Pre-Safe" smart system, etc. Overall, Cadillac competes and if people in NA want to be a little more supportive of their economy, they'll do the right thing.

There will be loyalists for every brand. You know MY ANSWER! ;)

Sandy
11-26-04, 08:58 PM
Yes, Majax, it IS $70,000 with those 6 options I listed.
Go to: http://www.msn.com
select AUTOS to Cadillac to STS and spec it up. Seventy.

2005 Cadillac STS V8
Invoice MSRP

Base Price* $45,708 $49,645
Selected Options $16,840 $19,635
Destination Charge $695 $695
Total* $63,243 $69,975



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Selected Options
Invoice MSRP
Premium Luxury Performance Package 1SG $11,148 $13,115
Bose(R) 5.1 Surround Sound System Included Included
XM Satellite Radio $276 $325
Intelligent Cruise Control $1,955 $2,300
Tire Pressure Monitor Included Included
Tuscany Upgraded Leather Seats Included Included
Front Dual Cooled Bucket Seats Included Included
Power Tilt and Slide Sunroof Included Included
5-Speed Automatic Transmission With AWD $1,615 $1,900
Red Line $846 $995
Gas Guzzler Tax $1,000 $1,000
Total Selected Options $16,840 $19,635



Foreign Luxury Car I'd buy
Volvo S80 Premier Elite
Infiniti M45 & Q45
Saab 9.5 AERO
Audi A8
Jaguar

The ones I would never buy:
Any mer-SAY-dees
Any Bummer
Any Porch
Any Lexus (this is a personal vendetta)

But, through it all, I stick with Caddy & Lincoln
while I await the return of the Imperial :rolleyes: :worship: :bouncy:

majax
11-26-04, 09:05 PM
Yikes on Cadi.com it came to about 68k fully loaded I was almost positive that it was 60k tops, sorry you are right Sandy :p . :bonkers:

I'd still buy one, it's a nice car. Wow you can get a 7 sereise for 70k of course the StS is supposedly as good as it in performance.

STSgirl
11-26-04, 09:38 PM
I hate to say this as a Seville owner and having driven a new V-8 STS, but for an honest comparison of cars before anyone buys a STS, drive a BMW 5 Series.

The BMW is Rear Wheel Drive, and living in Michigan, THAT is NOT an option for me. I want the speed and AWD.
As for the "gadget's" and technology, those are just TOYS :yup:

Sandy
11-26-04, 10:43 PM
I like toys !!!! :)

Playdrv4me
11-27-04, 03:30 AM
Sandy I was thinkin about this the other day. When I saw that someone ordered up an STS for 63,500.00, and THEN that someone ELSE traded a minty new E500 with 500 miles for one, I just about fell out of my chair, but I guess it really comes to down to what everybody likes, AND that Cadillac is really taking no prisoners when it comes to fulfilling the aspirations they have. Also, you have to remember that the Jags, BMWs and Mercedes SELL for the prices they ask, I give the STS another year before HEAVY discounting occurs. I am willing to make a serious wager that in 1 to 2 years time, Ill probably be able to get a 65k STS for around 49 to 52 (new with rebates, not used). Likewise, 49000.00 DTS's are going for around 38,500 in my area. A 74,000.00 S430 probably wont sell for a hair under 69, and that car is really the bastardchild of the Germans right now, they are one of the most problematic of the large cars out currently, and due to be redesigned soon. The biggest reason I would not shell out 63 large for an STS, is due to depreciation. I could not handle plunking down that kind of cash, only to have the thing lose 20k of value in the first year (and really, ALL large cars lose heavy value in the first year) and that has nothing to do with a like or dislike of the brand, just facts.

DG2
11-27-04, 09:00 AM
Sandy I was thinkin about this the other day. When I saw that someone ordered up an STS for 63,500.00, and THEN that someone ELSE traded a minty new E500 with 500 miles for one, I just about fell out of my chair, but I guess it really comes to down to what everybody likes, AND that Cadillac is really taking no prisoners when it comes to fulfilling the aspirations they have. Also, you have to remember that the Jags, BMWs and Mercedes SELL for the prices they ask, I give the STS another year before HEAVY discounting occurs. I am willing to make a serious wager that in 1 to 2 years time, Ill probably be able to get a 65k STS for around 49 to 52 (new with rebates, not used). Likewise, 49000.00 DTS's are going for around 38,500 in my area. A 74,000.00 S430 probably wont sell for a hair under 69, and that car is really the bastardchild of the Germans right now, they are one of the most problematic of the large cars out currently, and due to be redesigned soon. The biggest reason I would not shell out 63 large for an STS, is due to depreciation. I could not handle plunking down that kind of cash, only to have the thing lose 20k of value in the first year (and really, ALL large cars lose heavy value in the first year) and that has nothing to do with a like or dislike of the brand, just facts.


You fail to remember the Harley-Davidson model of Americon Iconism. Cadillac is very fortunate to have the same type of "Icon" status as Harley-Davidson. 18 years ago knowone thought Harley would be able to come out with a new product and charge thousands more then they ever had, but they did that and so much more. Harley invested millions to improve the products and make them worldclass. Cadillac invested billions to make them world class.

It is working and we are seeing just the beggining of what will be a near mirror business model of how Harley-Davidson became the most profitable motorcycle company in the world..

It is fun to watch an American company "do it right"

Sandy
11-27-04, 09:36 AM
Every car depreciates mega-bucks! My Town Car listed at $ 47,645.00. I got $2,500.00 off of MSRLP, so that then became $ 45,145.00. Then there was a $ 4,000.00 rebate making it $ 41,145.00. I had prior owned a 1998 Mark VIII LSC, and there was a $ 1,000.00 "Owner Loyality Rebate" so, that made it $ 40,000.00. Then, being 56 years old I fast sent away $25.00 to join A.A.R.P. and in so doing, I recieved an additional $ 500.00 for FoMoCo, bringing it down to $ 39,500.00. Lastly, there was $1,200.00 "Dealer Money" (or back door money) and he split it with me, so.... THAT was $ 600.00, bringing it down to $ 38,900 which is what I paid.

Now... the car is 100% perfect, showroom mint and has a mere 5,200 miles on it, never in snow, seldom in rain. It's a 2003. It exhibits absolutely zero signs of any wear. My dealer has 3 very similiar examples on his used car lot. Granted mine has more equipment, but still.....his cars are 2 year leases that went out in November of 2002 and are now back, 24 months later. One has 15,000 miles, the other one has 11,000 miles. Okay, I have 5,200 miles, but he is ASKING $ 27,995 for them. That's a drop of about $18,000 from MSRLP and $10,000 for what they coulda been bought for, new. I figure mine's worth $28,000 firm. Next year this time? Maybe $18,000 ?? Is THAT depreciation, or what?
People think mer-SAY-dees don't depreciate. They are wrong! My dentist has a S430 and was telling me it's worth $25,000 less than what he paid in 2003.

My accountant has 'em all beat. He buys a Chevy Malibu, (new) and keeps it 10 years. He takes it off his income tax as he goes to clients offices (using it IN work) and by the end of 10 years it has cost him zero ! Spreading out the cost new, and the tax reduction over 10 year period. He is today driving a 1997. So, a new one is coming in 2007. He says, Buy a cheap car, keep it until the wheels fall off and write it off work, if at all possible.

1toycad
11-27-04, 11:21 AM
A new ordered STS with the "G" Package, the Performance/Handling Package, XM Satellite Radio, Adoptive Cruise Control, All Wheel Drive and Red-Line Paint color has a MSRLP of $70,000.00.
That puts it into new territory, not formerely occupied by a Cadillac branded sedan or coupe. It shares this lofty pricing arena with the likes of some pretty respected hardware, such as the Jaguar S-Type "R" and the XJ, the Audi A8 (Okay, base model) and the BMW 745i. A decent Mercedes S-430 is also in the playground. For $15,000 less a new Volvo S80 Premier Elite offers an on-board 'Fridge, and dual DVD's in the backside of the headrests and many other refinements, including the first usage of a "4 C Chassis".

I know on here, Cadillacs reign supreme, "out there" in the outback, the name's of Jaguar, BMW & Mercedes stir the souls of the Hondapeople and the Toyotapeople, in ways the name Cadillac just doesn't. I own a Cadillac (1993) bought brand new, as well as a 2003 Town Car, bought brand new. When I told people what I had bought, both times, more than a couple said, "Hey, did you look at a Lexus?" -or- Man, for what you paid for that, you could had a BMW 5-Series..... So, will the cash monied COD on the desk buy the STS, or pause to look and head over to the A8, XJ, 7-series cars ????? Will the STS be on THOSE people's shopping list's, or will it be avoided? I am talking nationwide, not the people on here. On here, I KNOW the answer !!!!

It would all depend on the car's cost-per-miles (including depreciation). I bought my last Mercedes, a 1991 420SEL, fully loaded, in 1994. It was a three-year lease return car. It had 40K miles on it when I bought it and I paid $36K for it. I drove it until this year (10 years) and I put well over 210K miles on it. I recently sold it for $6K. I could have kept it for another 10 years and it would still be running fine. I only sold it because I had recently bought my Dad's 1999 SLS and I was paying too much for car insurance (teenage drivers at home!). I only had regular maintenance done on it from a local independent Mercedes mechanic.

If I can get a Cadillac to go that far, with no engine or transmission work, and still retaining its resale value, then I would not mind plunking $70K on one. My 1999 SLS has had its share of electric problems (the RainSense module, the A/C fan, the power window motor, etc.) Had I not bought the GM extended warranty, I would have been down the hole for some serious bucks. The SLS with 31K miles and fully optioned currently retails for under $14K. So, until Caddies makes a car with fewr problems and one that can better retain its resale value, the best buy in an American car remains a Chevy Malibu driven over 10 years. :lildevil:

The new STS sure is nice looking and it drives just fine, but right now (IMHO) the best Caddy value is a recent lease-return Deville DTS (preferably all-black). It is big, it is powerful, it looks good and some fool has already taken a hit in depreciation. :rolleyes:

Ralph
11-27-04, 01:41 PM
My accountant has 'em all beat. He buys a Chevy Malibu, (new) and keeps it 10 years. He takes it off his income tax as he goes to clients offices (using it IN work) and by the end of 10 years it has cost him zero ! Spreading out the cost new, and the tax reduction over 10 year period. He is today driving a 1997. So, a new one is coming in 2007. He says, Buy a cheap car, keep it until the wheels fall off and write it off work, if at all possible.

That's the problem for depreciation, etc. No one keeps new cars out of warrenty! I got your accountant beat Sandy. 10 years is nothing. My Mom bought this 1980 Pontiac Phoenix coupe new. I bought it from her in 1987 and put over 200,000 kms on it with no trouble. NOW, my Fiance got it from me! With well over a quarter of a million kms on it and no major trouble. This car cannot be killed and is a third hand me down in our family! That 25 years of ownership!!! Still rust free, original exhaust except muffler! Winter driven EVERY year! No excuse for rust!

Who the hell cares about resale value when a car will last that long and remain loyal, and relatively trouble free! If people sell a car it's because they WANT TO or have become BORED with it. When my Dad purchased the DTS, depreciation was the LAST thing on his mind! He bought it to ENJOY it. He keeps all his cars well over 10 years, and 20 would be a better average for him. Everyone here is waaaaaaay too uptight about depreciation! THAT hurts the resale value when dealer lots are flooded with used CAddies! (and people panic)

toycad, I thought you'd never sell that Benz! I have a feeling your going to regret it. ;) I also thought your Rainsense problem was related to not using the proper conductive adhesive sealant on the windshield because they didn't use the right type.

Playdrv4me
11-27-04, 02:11 PM
That's the problem for depreciation, etc. No one keeps new cars out of warrenty! I got your account beat Sandy. 10 years is nothing. My Mom bought this 1980 Pontiac Phoenic coupe new. I bought it from her in 1987 and put over 200,000 kms on it with no trouble. NOW, my Fiance got it from me! With well over a quarter of a million kms on it and no major trouble. This car cannot be killed and is a third hand me down in our family! That 25 years of ownership!!! Still rust free, original exhaust except muffler! Winter driven EVERY year! No excuse for rust!

Who the hell cares about resale value when a car will last that long and remain loyal, and relatively trouble free! If people sell a car it's because they WANT TO or have become BORED with it. When my Dad purchased the DTS, depreciation was the LAST thing on his mind! He bought it to ENJOY it. He keeps all his cars well over 10 years, and 20 would be a better average for him. Everyone here is waaaaaaay too uptight about depreciation! THAT hurts the resale value when dealer lots are flooded with used CAddies! (and people panic)

toycad, I thought you'd never sell that Benz! I have a feeling your going to regret it. ;) I also thought your Rainsense problem was related to not using the proper adhesive sealant on the windshield because you didn't take it to the dealership.

I wish I could say that more people would see that point of view, but the truth is, the average American, keeps their car 28 months. Now, if you really are going to keep the car for the long haul, then yes, I say it doesnt really matter how much depreciation you are going to experience. As Sandy said, (and as did I) ALL large cars experience "large car depreciation", some more than others. The key is getting a hell of a deal when its new via rebates and such, or buying slightly used, or lease returned vehicles. You eat up ALOT of the difference by buying smart right at the beginning. Nice Pontiac, it looks brand new!

BTW... About the Mercedes. All large cars take a big hit in the first couple of years, so its really not fair to compare them at that point. The difference comes two or three years down the road when some start to level off and not lose so much, and others continue a STEEP decline.

1toycad
11-27-04, 05:22 PM
toycad, I thought you'd never sell that Benz! I have a feeling your going to regret it. ;) I also thought your Rainsense problem was related to not using the proper conductive adhesive sealant on the windshield because they didn't use the right type.

I have already regretted it a couple of times. But it is just a car, and I couldn;t justify spending the extra money in insurance. I am looking forward to lease returns for the 2003-04 E class Benz, preferably in AMG clothing. :lildevil:

To be fair, the RainSense problem had more to do with the fact that dealer #1 kept trying to "fix" it to make it work right. I finally took it ot dealer #2 (I am fortunate to have 2 major Caddy dealers within close proximity). They figured that it was the electrical module and fixed it under the extended warranty. So I guess we can file this one under incompetent dealer screws RainSense module.... :hmm:

Ralph
11-27-04, 08:00 PM
I am looking forward to lease returns for the 2003-04 E class Benz, preferably in AMG clothing. :lildevil:

The power numbers are incredible with the AMG's! I was more impressed with the E320 CDI on the showroom floor I checked out. We're talking about 369 lb ft. of torque at just 1,800 rpm and 701 miles on one tank of fuel!! That was a beautiful car in silver but the price tag was $7,000 more here than what a DTS starts at. ($70k) The salesmen were more than courteous and helpful answering my questions.

Personally, I think the styling on MB's is starting to lag compared to Cadillacs. It used to be that Caddies were the old man's car, but I don't think anyone can logically say that now! :lildevil: The roles are becomming reversed if they haven't already. ;)

majax
11-27-04, 08:25 PM
My friends always say Mercedes are old peopls cars lol. So you would rather have the Dts ralph?

Ralph
11-27-04, 08:38 PM
My friends always say Mercedes are old peopls cars lol. So you would rather have the Dts ralph?

For Cadillacs, I think I'd rather have a new STS in Sandstorm color.

I do feel a loyality to Cadillacs and cars originally from North America.

If I had to choose a Mercedes it would be this one. I think the CL coupe is the exception and looks very sleek and modern:

Brett
11-27-04, 09:37 PM
The CL is my favorite car Ralph. Im hoping to get one in the next 12-24 months....I love it...good taste :)

majax
11-27-04, 09:41 PM
Thats my favorite Mercedes to. AMG version in black with the white interior!

Ralph
11-27-04, 09:52 PM
The CL is my favorite car Ralph. Im hoping to get one in the next 12-24 months....I love it...good taste :)

Since you and I are Natasha's biggest fans, I already know you have good taste. :eyebrow:


BLACK! Majax!! Can you say "wash me everyday to remove streaks!" :D

majax
11-27-04, 10:10 PM
If you get enough wax on the car it aint so bad. I would not mind buffing that car everyday.

Playdrv4me
11-28-04, 12:53 AM
Nice car, but its based on the S-Class, which has been very problematic in the current version. The S-Class is getting replaced in 2005 or 06 and the CL Class will follow shortly thereafter. Id say 12 to 24 months would be a perfect time to scoop one up for a hell of a deal, but Id make sure to get an extended warranty of some kind if you dont lease it.

Ralph
11-28-04, 01:49 AM
Nice car, but its based on the S-Class, which has been very problematic in the current version.

OK, this is getting a little wierd Ian!! Usually I'm the one knocking MB for some quality issue and you're praising it!?

Twillight Zone? :suspense:

Playdrv4me
11-28-04, 01:53 AM
OK, this is getting a little wierd Ian!! Usually I'm the one knocking MB for some quality issue and you're praising it!?

Twillight Zone? :suspense:

LOL...

By the way, you got it backwards, Im KNOCKING them and YOURE praising them!

Ive said it before and Ill say it again, the badge means nothing to me, and I dont take any prisoners when it comes to addressing each manufacturers weak points and problems. Mercedes and BMWs have their share of issues, and Mercedes particularly with the S Class. Thats all Im saying. That doesnt mean I wouldnt jump at the chance to own an S Class.

Ralph
11-28-04, 02:05 AM
By the way, you got it backwards, Im KNOCKING them and YOURE praising them!

First time for everything. :yup:

If you had to pick a new Caddy, which would it be? Are you stunned by the power of the CTS-V, dazzled by the fresh styling of the STS, or mezmerized by the tradition of a DTS? :hmm:

Playdrv4me
11-28-04, 02:09 AM
First time for everything. :yup:

If you had to pick a new Caddy, which would it be? Are you stunned by the power of the CTS-V, dazzled by the fresh styling of the STS, or mezmerized by the tradition of a DTS? :hmm:

CTS-V, absolutely no questions asked. It combines the best of the Cadillac luxury promise, with the heart and soul of the true American muscle car. (Grunt!)

Ralph
11-28-04, 02:13 AM
CTS-V, absolutely no questions asked. It combines the best of the Cadillac luxury promise, with the heart and soul of the true American muscle car. (Grunt!)

I guess I'm getting old because I would like an optional automatic tranny for it. I know that it's cool and it broke barriers by offering the first stick in a Caddy for over 50 years, but still.

Playdrv4me
11-28-04, 02:24 AM
:shhh: Psst...Just between you and I... Id love an Automatic with a Steptronic feature too... shhh.

majax
11-28-04, 02:38 AM
So Would I!!!!!! :D

Ralph
11-28-04, 02:42 AM
So Would I!!!!!! :D
OK, we're all wimps. :canttalk:

Ian, clear your PM box.

majax
11-28-04, 02:43 AM
or lazy :yawn:

Ralph
11-28-04, 05:31 PM
This might be the only other German car might consider, I guess I like the coupes, still at $100,000 Cdn, they can keep it!:

Playdrv4me
11-28-04, 05:41 PM
Of all the "Bangle-ized" BMWs, that is one of the few that actually looks halfway decent, ESPECIALLY in the convertible version, beautiful car. Still kinda plasticky for my taste tho, and it looks kinda like a long G35 coupe. I like the CL alot better, from an aesthetic standpoint at least

majax
11-28-04, 05:50 PM
I love the 6 to strangly someone here in town has one. Its black and purdy, I don't like the interior so much though, still okay and nice though.

Ralph
11-28-04, 05:53 PM
Of all the "Bangle-ized" BMWs, that is one of the few that actually looks halfway decent, ESPECIALLY in the convertible version, beautiful car. Still kinda plasticky for my taste tho, and it looks kinda like a long G35 coupe. I like the CL alot better, from an aesthetic standpoint at least

You're going to have to enlighten me on the definition of "Bangle-ized" BMW's. I used to love the Bangles music, I wonder where they are today. :hmm:

I think this one looks like an Austin Martin coupe, and the interior was VERY unique and interesting. I like the Ferrari-type paddle shifters opposing the steering wheel.

majax
11-28-04, 06:17 PM
actually my only dislike about the interior was how small the seats were and the leather looked thin.

Take into acount I never was inside one but just saw it parked.

ellives
12-03-04, 09:13 PM
You fail to remember the Harley-Davidson model of Americon Iconism. Cadillac is very fortunate to have the same type of "Icon" status as Harley-Davidson. 18 years ago knowone thought Harley would be able to come out with a new product and charge thousands more then they ever had, but they did that and so much more. Harley invested millions to improve the products and make them worldclass. Cadillac invested billions to make them world class.

It is working and we are seeing just the beggining of what will be a near mirror business model of how Harley-Davidson became the most profitable motorcycle company in the world..

It is fun to watch an American company "do it right"

It's an interesting comparison you make to H-D. I hope Cadillac never goes there. I hardly would call H-D worldclass. There's nothing worldclass about them as far as I'm concerned. I don't consider myself well-versed in motorcycles but I have some friends that are riders and they all went out and bought H-D's and couldnt' tolerate the ride for long distances. They traded them in for (shudder) BMW's and have been happy ever since. Go figure.


Ells

ellives
12-03-04, 09:26 PM
Every car depreciates mega-bucks! My Town Car listed at $ 47,645.00. I got $2,500.00 off of MSRLP, so that then became $ 45,145.00. Then there was a $ 4,000.00 rebate making it $ 41,145.00. I had prior owned a 1998 Mark VIII LSC, and there was a $ 1,000.00 "Owner Loyality Rebate" so, that made it $ 40,000.00. Then, being 56 years old I fast sent away $25.00 to join A.A.R.P. and in so doing, I recieved an additional $ 500.00 for FoMoCo, bringing it down to $ 39,500.00. Lastly, there was $1,200.00 "Dealer Money" (or back door money) and he split it with me, so.... THAT was $ 600.00, bringing it down to $ 38,900 which is what I paid.

Now... the car is 100% perfect, showroom mint and has a mere 5,200 miles on it, never in snow, seldom in rain. It's a 2003. It exhibits absolutely zero signs of any wear. My dealer has 3 very similiar examples on his used car lot. Granted mine has more equipment, but still.....his cars are 2 year leases that went out in November of 2002 and are now back, 24 months later. One has 15,000 miles, the other one has 11,000 miles. Okay, I have 5,200 miles, but he is ASKING $ 27,995 for them. That's a drop of about $18,000 from MSRLP and $10,000 for what they coulda been bought for, new. I figure mine's worth $28,000 firm. Next year this time? Maybe $18,000 ?? Is THAT depreciation, or what?
People think mer-SAY-dees don't depreciate. They are wrong! My dentist has a S430 and was telling me it's worth $25,000 less than what he paid in 2003.

My accountant has 'em all beat. He buys a Chevy Malibu, (new) and keeps it 10 years. He takes it off his income tax as he goes to clients offices (using it IN work) and by the end of 10 years it has cost him zero ! Spreading out the cost new, and the tax reduction over 10 year period. He is today driving a 1997. So, a new one is coming in 2007. He says, Buy a cheap car, keep it until the wheels fall off and write it off work, if at all possible.

This discussion highlights a point BBob made a while back which is the fact that the dealer makes WAY WAY too much money on these transactions. They are all out there building new buildings and getting bigger and bigger while GM struggles to make money. Something is wrong with the recipe.

In the end the depreciated value (at least when you drive off the lot) is what the dealer is actually paying for the car, less a bit for simply being owned by someone else. When a car depreciates that fast it shows (at least to me) that they are making way too much money.

Some of the resale values I see out there for Honda's particularly are simply pure leming behavior. I've seen people asking on Ebay for more money than the KBB average retail! Who would pay that? lol

I doubt I'll buy a new car again for a long long time.... at least until the crash and consolidation of the car business comes... there's just too much available on the used market to take the beating....

Ells