: Sunroof question(s)....



TriTexan
04-26-12, 01:10 AM
Just bought a new CTS-V wagon - on the truck to my dealer now. I opted for no sunroof...it's cookin' hot here in Houston and in my old car I never opened the sunroof except 3-4 times over the life of the car. But it made me think - does deleting the sunroof affect the weight? The Vagon supposedly weighs a couple hundred pounds more, but is that with or without the sunroof? Also, I would think that much glass up at the very top of the car would slightly affect center of gravity. Anyone know any specifics on this and how it affects headroom, weight, stability, etc? I know I'm probably splitting hairs here, so it's more of a curiosity than anything else...

DangFoo
04-26-12, 01:40 AM
I can't speak for the V, but I'm inclined to think that our cars follow the same design dynamics as many a car with respect to moonroofs. As such, the mechanism and materials that make for a sunroof/moonroof should be roughly the same as a solid roof with liner.

SoCal_V
04-26-12, 01:47 AM
No roof = lighter, stiffer chassis, lower CG, no squeaks/leaks. I don't miss having a sunroof at all in my V, I'm glad I didn't get one, especially given the ridiculous number of problems with them.

GM-4-LIFE
04-26-12, 02:21 AM
I had a 2009 V with a sunroof and hated it! I ordered my 2010 V without a sunroof and liked how quiet the interior was, not to mention cooler inside in the summer. I ordered my 2011 V Coupe without a sunroof and I couldn't be happier. You made a very wise choice not getting the sunroof. You will see how much better the car is without it.

SoCalCTSV
04-26-12, 10:28 AM
Sunroofs are like Howard Stern. The most vocal are the haters.

TriTexan
04-26-12, 10:54 AM
Sunroofs are like Howard Stern. The most vocal are the haters.

Well, I don't think anyone here is being a "hater". Seems like some people hate the sunroof, but those people have been specific about why (noise, heat, chance of mechanical problems, etc). Don't take any of that personally. Some people - such as those in Southern California for example - get a lot of enjoyment out of their sunroof and it's worth the issues that come along with it.

Some good points have been raised about noise, headroom, mechanical complexity, stiffness of chassis, and so on. I still don't think we have anything definitive on whether or not it affects the overall weight. Anyone know about headroom? That should be clearly measurable. I think we can speculate about all of these issues, but does anyone know for sure or have data or specs to back it up?

elphil
04-26-12, 01:25 PM
Drove a standard CTS Wagon for 18 months sans sunroof. And, for the past 15 months, a V-Wagon with sunroof and haven't really noticed a difference other then a brighter interior. The sunroof has given me no problems so far.

thebigjimsho
04-26-12, 01:51 PM
I don't get any car for personal use without a moonroof(a sunroof is a metal panel, moonroof is glass). Unless it is triple digit temps do I close it up. Love the open, airy feel...

elphil
04-26-12, 02:03 PM
(a sunroof is a metal panel, moonroof is glass). ...

bigjim, you need to tell GM that, they mistakenly call it UltraView power sunroof.

tinman
04-26-12, 02:27 PM
This taken from Car and Driver's initial Test Drive of a 3.6L 2010 Wagon (bold type is mine):
"The changes to this version of the CTS are from the B-pillars rearward. Weighing in at 4212 pounds, the Sport Wagon is 241 pounds portlier than the last CTS sedan we tested. Much of the weight increase can be attributed to the extended roofline, the structural buttressing, and the electric hatch, but some is likely due to the glass roof that came on our test car. So the wagon is heavier than the sedan—a clear disadvantage—but the extra mass is offset by improved weight distribution. Sport Wagons are less nose-heavy than CTS sedans, with 48.6 percent of the mass over the rear wheels versus the sedan’s 46.7 percent. With more weight resting on top of them, the rear tires don’t have any trouble putting the power to the ground.

Xaqtly
04-26-12, 05:17 PM
For me personally, I'm on the fence. Mine came with the sunroof, I got it used so didn't have a choice. I like the sunroof, on nice days I always open it up, and I got it tinted along with the rest of the windows to keep heat out. But it does seriously impinge on headroom, and the simple fact is that it can break or creak, or malfunction in some way and a solid roof can't. It also adds a little weight.

So if I had to choose right now, I would probably choose not to have one. Headroom and usability would be my main reasons - in Las Vegas the weather is nice for maybe 2 weeks in the spring and a couple weeks in the fall. Then it's either 110 every day or below 60. Same reason I wouldn't own a convertible in Vegas, it's unusable with the roof down in the summer and the winter.

If I lived in SoCal I might choose to have the sunroof because the temps are more mild there, and for much more of the year, and I do like open air motoring. :) But my last car didn't have a sunroof and I was fine with that. I'd say if you're going to track the car at all don't get the sunroof because of the headroom issue.

Karch
04-26-12, 11:19 PM
Well, I don't think anyone here is being a "hater". Seems like some people hate the sunroof, but those people have been specific about why (noise, heat, chance of mechanical problems, etc). Don't take any of that personally. Some people - such as those in Southern California for example - get a lot of enjoyment out of their sunroof and it's worth the issues that come along with it.

Some good points have been raised about noise, headroom, mechanical complexity, stiffness of chassis, and so on. I still don't think we have anything definitive on whether or not it affects the overall weight. Anyone know about headroom? That should be clearly measurable. I think we can speculate about all of these issues, but does anyone know for sure or have data or specs to back it up?

Count me in as another in SoCal who doesn't use a sunroof. Too much sun as it is, which, when I go golfing, I play in the shade (trees) half the time.

GM-4-LIFE
04-27-12, 01:22 AM
Count me in as another in SoCal who doesn't use a sunroof. Too much sun as it is, which, when I go golfing, I play in the shade (trees) half the time.

I hate the sunroof only because I hate the sun! I know I live in the wrong place, but I just can't stand being out in the hot sun! My windows are tinted very dark and without the sunroof, it keeps the inside of the car much cooler over the V I had with a sunroof. I will continue to order all my future Vs without a sunroof.

If I wasn't born and raised in L.A., I would not live here. I would live in a much cooler part of the country.

ekyub
04-27-12, 02:14 AM
Congrats! I can't wait to see a V wagon on the roads in Houston.

Karch
04-27-12, 11:39 AM
I hate the sunroof only because I hate the sun! I know I live in the wrong place, but I just can't stand being out in the hot sun! My windows are tinted very dark and without the sunroof, it keeps the inside of the car much cooler over the V I had with a sunroof. I will continue to order all my future Vs without a sunroof.

If I wasn't born and raised in L.A., I would not live here. I would live in a much cooler part of the country.

I feel the same way (we even have the same initials). When our family travels in the summer, we try to go someplace cooler. Last year was Monterey, year before was Seattle and Alaska, this year is Portland.
I'd like to move, but where? Wife and I were born here, and it's what we know.

Cadillac Cust Svc
05-01-12, 11:04 AM
I appreciate all the honest sunroof feedback, everyone!

TriTexan, if you have any lingering questions, please don't hesitate to email me anytime at Katie_Lucille@gmexpert.com. I know I said this in a different post, too, but congratulations again on your new V wagon!

Best,

Katie
Cadillac Customer Service

thebigjimsho
05-01-12, 11:52 AM
Moonroof, Katie... :coffee:

tinman
05-01-12, 12:23 PM
Moonroof, Katie... :coffee:
Actually, Cadillac calls it an Ultraview Power Sunroof.

thebigjimsho
05-01-12, 02:01 PM
Moonroof.

TriTexan
05-01-12, 02:04 PM
Congrats! I can't wait to see a V wagon on the roads in Houston.

Well, my Thunder Gray wagon is finally loose on the roads in North Houston! The guys at the dealership said it's the only one they've ever seen. I like that it is such a major sleeper...the only people that notice are the ones who understand what those PS2 tires and giant Brembos are for. And of course the sound of it is a bit of a giveaway.

I will say that now that I have the Vagon I compared it to a regular wagon with a sunroof (moonroof?) at the dealer this morning. I didn't take any measurements so I can't quantify anything, but it seems very clear that the headroom and spaciousness without the roof is definitely greater. Towards the back seat not as much, but in the front and middle of the car it's a lot larger feeling on the inside.

thebigjimsho
05-01-12, 05:23 PM
In the sedan, I can't sit in back without my head touching the ceiling. If there is no moonroof, there is a lot more head room in the back seat...

Karch
05-01-12, 06:11 PM
Well, my Thunder Gray wagon is finally loose on the roads in North Houston! The guys at the dealership said it's the only one they've ever seen. I like that it is such a major sleeper...the only people that notice are the ones who understand what those PS2 tires and giant Brembos are for. And of course the sound of it is a bit of a giveaway.

I will say that now that I have the Vagon I compared it to a regular wagon with a sunroof (moonroof?) at the dealer this morning. I didn't take any measurements so I can't quantify anything, but it seems very clear that the headroom and spaciousness without the roof is definitely greater. Towards the back seat not as much, but in the front and middle of the car it's a lot larger feeling on the inside.

Let me know the day you are tired of it, and I'll book the flight out there. I am trying to find an identical one on the used market, preferably a 2011, but no luck yet.

V locity
05-01-12, 10:03 PM
I googled it, just for grins:)

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_difference_between_a_Moon_roof_and_Sun _roof_if_any

thebigjimsho
05-01-12, 10:43 PM
Glad you enjoyed that...