: Is flushing a scam



Plastermaster
04-21-12, 07:08 PM
I have a 2007 Escalade ESV with 89,000+ miles. During last service appointment I get a call from the service manager recmmending a power steering and brake fluid flush. I get my service at a GM/Buick dealer as no close cadillac dealers. I am suspicious that
This is just an attempt to boost the bill so declin until later. Could not find any info in
Owners manual. Is this a legitimate service or a feecing?

nathanjax
04-21-12, 07:36 PM
scam.

The power steering and brake fluid are sealed systems. Nothing can get in them. They will show you the fluid us dirty and needs changed, but the fluid picks up carbon from the hoses, and that you can't really tell a 5,000 mile fluid from a 50,000 mile fluid based on color.

quattrotman
04-22-12, 05:17 AM
scam.

The power steering and brake fluid are sealed systems. Nothing can get in them. They will show you the fluid us dirty and needs changed, but the fluid picks up carbon from the hoses, and that you can't really tell a 5,000 mile fluid from a 50,000 mile fluid based on color.

Thats not entirely accurate. While the fluids are sealed they will still deteriorate and they are only sealed by a cap so.they are not really 'sealed'. Brake fluid is hydroscopic meaning it attracts water. If too much water enters the fluid it lowers the effectiveness of the braking system and can cause corrosion in the lines. I agree, bleeding brakes is often done unecessarily, however with that many miles it would probably be a good idea.

Rolex
04-22-12, 09:01 AM
You want to change the brake fluid? Here's an easy way: open up the lid off the master cylinder and use a turkey baster to suck up all the brake fluid you can. Then top off the master cylinder with fresh brake fluid and close the lid. Come back and do that about 3x/week during regular driving/use and you will have eventually replaced the great majority of your brake fluid.

I've never seen that done with the power steering fluid, but I can't imagine hurting anything trying it on the power steering system too.

cutterman
04-22-12, 04:19 PM
I have never heard of brake fluid flush as required maintenance. However, when I change pads I open the bleed screw and connect a plastic hose so the old fluid is drained when I compress the pistons. I killed an ABS unit on a Jeep once by pushing the old fluid back up during a brake job.

48Dodge
04-22-12, 10:56 PM
You want to change the brake fluid? Here's an easy way: open up the lid off the master cylinder and use a turkey baster to suck up all the brake fluid you can. Then top off the master cylinder with fresh brake fluid and close the lid. Come back and do that about 3x/week during regular driving/use and you will have eventually replaced the great majority of your brake fluid.

I've never seen that done with the power steering fluid, but I can't imagine hurting anything trying it on the power steering system too.

In theory this sounds like a good idea but the brake fluid stays pretty static in the system. I would think most, if not all fluid in the lines moves about an inch or so under hard braking. The fluid in the calipers probably mostly stays put, too. Might work great for power steering or a clutch system with master and slave

hcvone
04-23-12, 07:17 AM
In theory this sounds like a good idea but the brake fluid stays pretty static in the system. I would think most, if not all fluid in the lines moves about an inch or so under hard braking. The fluid in the calipers probably mostly stays put, too. Might work great for power steering or a clutch system with master and slave

Not really true, it does work it's way back to the holding tank (reservoir), if you follow Rolex's process (this is what I do for my Corvette's clutch reservoir, and what I have always done on my trucks brakes), this process while it will take 3-6 times to totally make your brake fluid clean and clear again, it only takes a few minutes to do.

SC2150
04-23-12, 10:59 AM
Both are legit and your rack & pinion components wear over time and there is no filter in the system so the fine metal particles begin to accelerate wear over time so the onlly way to prevent eventual faiure is to flush the system and fill w/new fluid. A sign your past the point of saving the rack is it will become nothcy feeling and harder to steer when at a stop.

The brake fluid is like a sponge in how it attracts and absorbes water vapor from the vent over time. This moisture will corrode the inside of the hard lives and the caliper pistons so yes, it needs to be flushed and filled with new as well.

So, yes, both are legit and critical to long life. :thumbsup:

48Dodge
04-23-12, 01:24 PM
A thread on this subject at Bob is the Oil Guy doesn't seem to prove or disprove.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2440903&page=1
Another one about doing it for all systems
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483070
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=514601

My thoughts are that it is a good idea for PS and possibly clutch, but still don't see it doing much good for the whole system for brakes because there really isn't much circulation.

hcvone
04-23-12, 01:40 PM
A thread on this subject at Bob is the Oil Guy doesn't seem to prove or disprove.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2440903&page=1
Another one about doing it for all systems
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483070
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=514601

My thoughts are that it is a good idea for PS and possibly clutch, but still don't see it doing much good for the whole system for brakes because there really isn't much circulation.

You are correct there is not much movement or circulation of brake fluid, I have no rubber lines on my trucks, I replace the lines with SS Goodridge on all my trucks, and my brake fluid still turns black after 20k miles, it's turning black from heat breakdown. I replace the fluid with that blue stuff that costs a lot, but does not pickup water and says blue for a long time, unlike the stock fluid which I somehow turned black as coal in 2k miles.

SC2150
04-23-12, 02:36 PM
Clutch is critical as the cylinder style hydraulic slave/throw-out assy no matter how well sealed brings in a small amount of the extremely fine clutch dust back into the cylinder everytime the pedal is depressed.

The brake system does not circulate that is correct, but the moisture travels throughout the fluid (picture a drop of redfood coloring in a glas of water....drop it in with the glass still and the color will disperse throughout eventually. The water/moisture works in a similar fashion. If it didn't we would never see the badlet corroded piston & caliper nores we do when rebuilding them.

Any maintanance like this is only important if you keep the car for a long oeriod and want to avoid costly part replacements and there are always those that "I drove my car 50,000 miles and have never had to change oil and itis doing fine" mentality. It all boils down to caring forall systems on the vehicle or just do what can get you by. :thumbsup:

Cadillac Cust Svc
04-23-12, 03:07 PM
I'm sorry to hear about the confusion, Plastermaster! I'd be glad to investigate for you, if you wish; please send me an email at Katie_Lucille@gmexpert.com with your full name, VIN, and dealership.

Best,

Katie
Cadillac Customer Service

murphy
04-23-12, 03:27 PM
My take on this is if your braking system sees any taxing experience be it performance driving and/or towing, maintaining the purity level of brake fluid is a must. Your brake fluid sees high levels of temperature swing and humidity which ultimately breaks down the structure of the fluid. In some applications the fluid can actually boil (and boil out) in/of the system from the heat transmitted from the calipers.
If you're even a somewhat handy person mechanically you can perform these fluid purges at a very moderate cost otherwise you know the saying..an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure..

And also it is a scheduled item pertaining to warrranty so should you decline you may effect the outcome of a future warranty claim :(

SC2150
04-23-12, 04:30 PM
My take on this is if your braking system sees any taxing experience be it performance driving and/or towing, maintaining the purity level of brake fluid is a must. Your brake fluid sees high levels of temperature swing and humidity which ultimately breaks down the structure of the fluid. In some applications the fluid can actually boil (and boil out) in/of the system from the heat transmitted from the calipers.
If you're even a somewhat handy person mechanically you can perform these fluid purges at a very moderate cost otherwise you know the saying..an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure..

And also it is a scheduled item pertaining to warrranty so should you decline you may effect the outcome of a future warranty claim :(

Bingo!! Mr Murphy has it right on. :thumbsup:

Ghost Deany
04-24-12, 08:13 PM
Can you do either of these 2 jobs DIY?

SC2150
04-25-12, 09:44 AM
Yes. Rack & Pinon can be done DIY by using a turkey baster to suck it out of the resivoir, refill with new, start...turn steering lock to lock a few times, shut off and repeat 2-3 times and you will have most of it changed. This is not near what a professional flush would be as that is done with a pressurized pump system that actuall hooks up inlne and flucshes, but will do the job.

Ghost Deany
04-25-12, 02:53 PM
Any recommended power steering and brake fluid brands?

SC2150
04-25-12, 05:38 PM
Any good name brand that meets the specs in the owners manual. :thumbsup: