: Torque Converter Operating @ 422 Deg. Celcius?

11-22-04, 10:41 PM
Hey guys

I know i have not been posting lately, but belive it or not my 97 eldorado has actually running pretty good!! Up until recently anyway. Whats been going on is that the tranny has been takin a while to shift from what is 2nd to 3rd, or it could be 3rd to 4th. It usuall happens when i step on it, especially from a standstill. The car would still accelerate but the engine would get to like 4500 rpms before it would shift. Just didnt feel right if you know what i mean.
I took it over to cottman transmissons and the guy told me that i had codes 741 (i think its something to do with a torque converter solenoid) and 1599 (some kind of shift code or something) in the history. We took it on a test run after he cleared them and he said it seemed like it was shifting ok, even though he test it didnt under the conditions i said i was having the problem with. But he did say that the torque converter was running at 422 degrees celcius. He said that some solenoid on the valvebody problalbly was not letting enough fluid into the converter. He said i will most likely need to replace the converter and solenoid which will run me about $1500. he said my light brown fluid with little air bubbles is consistent with this theory. Anybody have any ideas of wheter or not this diagnosis sounds about right?


11-23-04, 12:46 AM
The guy is a world class BS artist and crook. 422 C converts to 791 F. The oil in the transmission would be boiling and shooting out the dipstick or vent. You can't get away from this crook fast enough.

11-23-04, 09:01 AM
I agree with koz. Try other places. Light brown fluid is not good. If it were mine, I would do a complete tranny flush or complete fluid change. Might shake loose your sticking valves. If it doesn't, you are in no worse shape.

11-23-04, 02:57 PM
I agree with koz. Try other places. Light brown fluid is not good. If it were mine, I would do a complete tranny flush or complete fluid change. Might shake loose your sticking valves. If it doesn't, you are in no worse shape.

Actually, avoid the flush but have the fluid changed. There's a great article here on the forums in the FAQ section about why you DON'T want to have a flush done...


STS 310
11-23-04, 03:25 PM
422 celcius, thats funny. Perhaps he meant F. Maybe hes a Euro.

Maybe hes just full of s**t.

11-23-04, 04:28 PM
I think you should search the forums for TCC solenoids or code 741 or torque converter clutch. Several others have been through similar problems and it seems to me the symptoms and diagnosis could be consistent with what the mechanic is saying. The brownish fluid IS consistent with high temperatures in the transmission, and the bubbles could indicate a lack of fluid in the TC. When was it last changed? How many miles on the car? Been towing a camper uphill in Death Valley in July?

As for the 422 degrees Celsius, that is an awfully high temperature considering water boils at 100 and antifreeze boils somewhere around 115-130. I wonder how or where he got that reading. The flash point of Quaker State Dexron/Mercon fluid is about 212 degrees Celsius (415 Fahrenheit), so there should have been a fire at 422 on either scale unless I'm misunderstanding something.

I think it's conceivable the diagnosis is right, but I won't speculate on the integrity of that particular mechanic. For $1500, it might be worth a second opinion and estimate with detailed descriptions of the work to be done. Someone else who's been through the solenoid change can probably comment further, and I'd be very interested to hear someone else's opinion on whether the TC could have been damaged enough to require replacement. Whatever you do, please keep us updated!

Good luck...

11-23-04, 09:53 PM
Thanx for your input guys. The main reason i posted was because i thought 442 degrees celcius was way to high, figured the damn thing would burn a hole in my floor pan. He did show me the reading on his obd tool while we were out on the test run and it did say celcius. I was thinking this guy might have been trying to get the converter job instead of telling me that i had a bad sensor. He said the converter is probably glowing hot and has turned blue in color.

The car has 113K on it, i am due for a fluid change, and i only tow campers uphill in death valley during the month of june.



11-23-04, 11:44 PM
Maybe this will help... I just went through a similar situation with my 2000 Deville. The code was for the TCC solenoid. I have a trusted mechanic who put my car on his scanner and took me for a ride so I could watch what the tranny was doing.The slip spec for the torque convertor was out of range thus causing the service engine soon light to come on. As it happens, replacing this solenoid is like putting a band aid on a bigger problem. After getting a second opinion, just to be sure, from another trusted transmission shop, the correct fix is to replace or rebuild the transmission. If the TCC solenoid is sticking, open or closed, this is causing the torque convertor clutch, which locks up the convertor, to slip. Causing the fluid to change to a darker brown and the convertor to heat up. The temp this guy quoted you is a mistake. As everyone has already mentioned, that is impossible. The labor to change the TCC solenoid is 6-8 hours. R & R the transmission is 11.5 hours. You need to decide what you need to do. I replaced mine with a used transmission with 25,000 miles on it. The other thing that may be happening is you have a sticky shift solenoid. Changing the fluid and putting in a real good additve may help too...Like to hear what else you may have found out.

Again, I hope this helps,