: Gut feeling is there is something wrong (or at least not running right)...



AfAdam
04-18-12, 01:39 PM
So this is my first post on these forums. I have owned my CTS-V now since December 2011. It is a 2010 CST-V Sedan with approximately 27K on it (just over 20K when purchased; I am the second owner). The car was purchased from a Cadillac dealership with the balance of the factory warrenty and the extended Cadillac bumper to bumper warrently. The car is bone stock and the previous owner was a middle age bank CEO in NE Indiana. I absolutely love the vehicle and haven't had any of the other common issues that I have been reading about on this board (yet), except for I feel underwhelmed with the performance. I previously had a lightly modded SRT-4 and my V feels only slightly faster that that was. I have also been many times in a friends new M3 and have been passenger in a M5 on the Nurenbergring. Both felt faster. From reading on this board discriptions on how easy it is for others to get their wheels loose and how the car should be performing, my gut tells me something with mine is off. First I live in Colorado Springs with a common altitude between 5800-6200 feet. I know that this accounts for some loss... I also am not getting the normal boost range as reflected by the gauge. I know its not known to be extremely accurate but I am averaging 5-6psi, never more. Also in sport mode I am lucky to get any wheelspin from a launch and only slightly with TC off. Not what I'd expect fromt he second fastest/most powerful sedan in the market...

So, tomorrow I am getting a baseline dyno and next week I am taking her in to the dealership. Not sure what I am looking for or expecting, but I just know there is something missing with the performance.

Any thoughts or suggestions on what to get at the dyno or what to ask when I take it in to the dealership...

Trapspeed
04-18-12, 01:51 PM
Try that burnout maneuver one more time after holding your Traction Control button for about 5 seconds to totally disable it and let us know what it does then. We can go from there.

DiamondWhtV
04-18-12, 01:55 PM
No question that boost will go lower as altitude increases. But you still should be feeling all the performance that the V has. Something is definitely wrong. The last time someone posted this problem from Colorado turned ut to be something with the boost control/split hose?

You might try a search on this forum, it was about 2 years ago.

Glad you posted. Stick around. I believe your problem can be resolved.

thebigjimsho
04-18-12, 05:12 PM
My '04 V felt slow. But only because 400hp felt unreal compared to what I had driven before. Once I raced a fellow SHO owner's '02 M5 on the Bay Bridge in San Fran, that perception changed. My '09 has never felt slow, though...

AfAdam
04-18-12, 05:54 PM
I will try a few launches today under different TC settings and report back. Also will throw up the dyno numbers when I get them. I also checked the set screw on the boost bypass assembly last night. It was firmly in place and wasn't budging (unlike others who said it was loose/finger tight). I re-secured the two mount bolts ensuring the set screw was just in contact with the gate. Took it for a spin and still a hair below 6psi.

Thanks for the inputs thus far...

AfAdam
04-18-12, 07:21 PM
So on the way home I tried 7 launches from a stop. All were in sport transmission/suspension mode. 3 with TC totally disabled as advised, 2 in competition, 2 in normal mode. 5 of the 7 launches were on pavement and two were on concrete. Of the 7 launches 5 didn't even chirp the tires, one (in regular TC mode, on slick concrete) spun them up to about 30mph, and the other (TC comp mode, concrete) only chirped them for an instant. Boost still never passed about 5-6psi. It lags and then raised to 3ish and climbed to 5ish through 1st gear. So...this doesn't make me feel any better about my feelings like something is wrong. Dyno tomorrow

Houdini
04-18-12, 08:24 PM
Doesn't sound right at all. I wouldn't be shocked at all if you are way down on power.

buddyg
04-18-12, 08:25 PM
I wouldn't even waste time with a dyno there is definitely something wrong. Take it straight to the dealer!

AfAdam
04-18-12, 08:30 PM
I wouldn't even waste time with a dyno there is definitely something wrong. Take it straight to the dealer!

Thats what is really bugging me. It isn't driving rough at all. Smooth shifts, no excessive noise from the S/C, just shit for power... Is there any way to see if its throwing any codes that aren't triggering any visible lamps/alarms without a scanner?

Razorecko
04-18-12, 10:32 PM
I would do the regular maintenance just because you dont know how hard your V was driven. First off I would make sure you have the stock tune in there. Than I would break down maintenance checks in this order....

1. Clean your maf sensor & replace air filter
2. Replace /check your supercharger belts
3. New spark plugs
4. Replace your 02 sensors ( just because it doesnt trigger a check engine light doesnt mean its running badly )

Your first best bet though is running it on the dyno- run it on the dyno with a wideband so you can see your air/fuel across the band. Thats the best start.

Moneypenny
04-18-12, 10:32 PM
I might do the dyno anyway, and then have the figures handy to show the dealer. Also a nice memento to have a as a "before and after" for when you go to the dyno again after getting all squared away.

AfAdam
04-18-12, 11:56 PM
I would do the regular maintenance just because you dont know how hard your V was driven. First off I would make sure you have the stock tune in there. Than I would break down maintenance checks in this order....

1. Clean your maf sensor & replace air filter
2. Replace /check your supercharger belts
3. New spark plugs
4. Replace your 02 sensors ( just because it doesnt trigger a check engine light doesnt mean its running badly )

Your first best bet though is running it on the dyno- run it on the dyno with a wideband so you can see your air/fuel across the band. Thats the best start.

Thanks all for the inputs. I was looking a little deeper on your suggestions and noticed other posts about having a problem with drop-in K&N filters. Appears the oil may quickly deposit on the MAF sensor. I will be cleaning that tomorrow (along with replacing the K&N). Still going to the dyno at 1pm and making an appointment with the dealership to drop her off. Depending on what they find/tell me I may request a check of all fluids, #2, 3 and 4, and any scheduled 30K maintenance. I will post up the dyno results when I get them. Still feeling discouraged because I don't think the car has been 100% since I've owned it, but looking forward to moving toward some solutions...

Cheers!

mannyz
04-19-12, 05:16 AM
Yea something is probably not right. I lived in 4K altitude before, and walked on a Stage 3 50trim SRT-4 stock. Tires should light up pretty easy espcially with TC off.

Houdini
04-19-12, 07:09 AM
I wonder if a set of your cats are plugged up?

AfAdam
04-19-12, 04:50 PM
This morning I cleaned the MAF sensor before taking it to the dyno. I really didn't feel any gained performance. The results pretty much confirmed my suspicions. Best of three runs was 369.4HP/349.6TQ. Dyno was a dynammics dynamometer. DA was 5815, correction was 1.15, outside temp was 65.1 and relative humidity was 15%. I have an appointment to drop it off at the dealership on Monday. Any suggestions about what to ask for?

90286

90287

GM-4-LIFE
04-19-12, 05:14 PM
Try to get to as close to sea level as possible and run it on a Dynojet. On a Dynojet, you should be making between 440 and 470 RWHP.

Kluch
04-19-12, 07:44 PM
Wow. You're about 100 horses off on the rear wheels. I think that's all you need to tell the dealer. They'll find the problem. Please keep us posted. Good luck. Good move on the dyno pre-dealer because now you've got a baseline.

AfAdam
04-19-12, 11:19 PM
Thanks. Crossing my fingers and hoping for the best. I'll post what they find/tell me. Really just hoping not to have to deal with a bunch of hassle from a shop that doesn't want to work out the issue...

AfAdam
04-23-12, 05:07 PM
So I dropped the car off at the dealership this morning. Wasn't feeling too good with the service writer's comment of "there isn't a bolt or mechanical adjustment to be made on this car, and if anything is wrong you'd have a check engine light", but I didn't want to start off confrontational so I figured I'd just wait to see what the verdict was when they called. Anyways, he called back and...I'm getting a new supercharger. Actually talked to the technician and he said the car was only registering 5psi. His conclusion was the supercharger needed to be replaced. I know I should have been happy and shut my mouth, but I am a very honest person, so I asked that it wasn't the bypass valve or actuator. He said he verified both were good. So its official; full supercharger replacement.

Such a big relief to know my issue is going to get fixed. I am excited to drive the car I was expecting when I bought it. Its been almost 4 months that I've owned it and I am pretty sure it never had the power it should have...

Houdini
04-23-12, 05:59 PM
Please post up the results when you get her back.

Pphilthy
04-23-12, 06:30 PM
Did they do a compression and leak down test...? That's the first place I would have started....

AfAdam
04-23-12, 09:03 PM
Did they do a compression and leak down test...? That's the first place I would have started....

Not to my knowledge, but I'll ask the technician when I drop it off. I agree, I would have checked the engine first and then looked at the SC, but I'm not going to argue with them replacing it if it works. I will take it back to the dyno and post the numbers after the replacement.

coati
04-23-12, 10:23 PM
Keep us posted as to the results.
I want to hear a happy ending to this story.
:)

Kluch
04-24-12, 01:54 AM
Keep us posted as to the results.
I want to hear a happy ending to this story.
:)

Me too!

Cadillac Cust Svc
04-24-12, 08:58 AM
I am sorry to hear that you are having this ongoing frustration with your vehicle's performance. It sounds like you have taken the proper steps in getting this issue resolved in getting to the dealership. Keep us updated on your vehicle repair at the dealership and feel free to contact me with any questions at katie_lucille@gmexpert.com.

Ashley (assisting Katie)
Cadillac Customer Service

DiamondWhtV
04-24-12, 09:00 AM
Hmmmm...not the bypass valve or actuator. Curious as to what could be wrong mechanically with the SC to cause the low boost without some other noticable problem that could be identified.

Willing to put money down that it will be more than just the SC before it's all done and over with.

AfAdam
04-24-12, 03:51 PM
I may be wrong, but I think the valve/actuator comes with/on the new SC as a whole unit. I am looking on Alldata (mechanic software) and it shows the whole unit with both attached. So I am thinking even if it was the valve/actuator it may be fixed with the new SC.


Pic is from the removal/replacement instructions
90586

ctsvwannabe
04-24-12, 03:54 PM
Hmmmm...not the bypass valve or actuator. Curious as to what could be wrong mechanically with the SC to cause the low boost without some other noticable problem that could be identified.

Willing to put money down that it will be more than just the SC before it's all done and over with.

AfAdam, I agree with DiamondWhtV - not sure what could be wrong with the S/C that wouldn't cause some serious mechanical noise. I live in Colorado Springs also and have a 2011 CTS-V Coupe with the 6-speed manual. It runs very strong, but I don't get a lot of wheel spin when I get on it. I assumed it was mostly the effects of altitude and 91 octane fuel.

ctsvwannabe

AfAdam
04-24-12, 06:54 PM
AfAdam, I agree with DiamondWhtV - not sure what could be wrong with the S/C that wouldn't cause some serious mechanical noise. I live in Colorado Springs also and have a 2011 CTS-V Coupe with the 6-speed manual. It runs very strong, but I don't get a lot of wheel spin when I get on it. I assumed it was mostly the effects of altitude and 91 octane fuel.

ctsvwannabe

Do you only run at 5 psi? If this doesn't fix my situation I am willing to pay to dyno your car and see what another one runs here. I know a manual would be a little stronger, but I also know a guy with a 09 low mile automatic...

DiamondWhtV
04-25-12, 10:10 AM
Do you only run at 5 psi? If this doesn't fix my situation I am willing to pay to dyno your car and see what another one runs here. I know a manual would be a little stronger, but I also know a guy with a 09 low mile automatic...

Don't be too worked up over the boost pressure. It maybe in the normal range for your altitude. Sea level air pressure is 14.7 lbs and at 5000 feet elevation the air pressure is 12.23 lbs. Thats good for 2.5 lbs of boost right there. I don't know your exact altitude, but I believe it is around 5500 feet? So if boost at sea level is 8-9 stock, I would expect to see somewhere in the 5-7 range.

Unfortunately your dyno numbers are too low even for the change in altitude. I am just not sure that the SC is your problem area.

AfAdam
05-01-12, 04:02 PM
I picked the car back up today from the dealership. The SC was replaced and in them doing it as a whole unit the valve/actuator were also replaced. They also replaced the SC belt. The tech said he did notice the SC was making noise before the repair. After the repair they test drove my car with a computer and then compared it to a new one off the showroom floor (could tell they drove it because it had bug splats on it and the tires were dirty). They said it was nearly the same based on the readings taken. So my thoughts driving it home... It is now making 7-8psi (more where I thought it should be); about 2-3 psi higher than before. It also seems to register on the boost gauge earlier when I go about 40% throttle. I also spun the wheels without meaning to in touring mode at an intersection. Then close to home I re-tried the launch with TC disabled in sport mode and the wheels spun all the way through first gear. So judging by the non-calibrated "seat of my pants", it definitely feels better. Next step, another dyno run and another run with another stock V to compare.

On a side note, my friend following me after leaving the dealership noticed a little smoke from the tailpipes when I got on it. I figure that may be due to the new part and some contaminants being burnt off. I assume that will disappear pretty quickly, but should that be an issue or will it go away in the near future?

TriTexan
05-01-12, 07:57 PM
AfAdam - excellent work sticking to your approach of measuring things carefully. That's the ONLY way to know if the car is performing correctly and the repairs have had the right effect. Keep us posted!

DiamondWhtV
05-02-12, 09:05 AM
Good news indeed. Let us know the final dyno results.

js615
05-02-12, 09:49 AM
This thread is a warm fuzzy for why this forum needs to exist. Well done gang!

Pphilthy
05-02-12, 12:55 PM
On a side note, my friend following me after leaving the dealership noticed a little smoke from the tailpipes when I got on it. I figure that may be due to the new part and some contaminants being burnt off. I assume that will disappear pretty quickly, but should that be an issue or will it go away in the near future?

Given that they already test drove your car, I would assume that any 'contaminants' would have already been burnt off...? The important thing to note is, what color is the smoke...? Did you get the results from the compression and leak down test...? These are the two most informative tests you can do to gauge the health of your motor...

AfAdam
05-13-12, 06:34 PM
I finally got some free time to take it back to the dyno since getting the SC replaced. Apparently it did some good. Went from 369HP to 402HP. Definitely feels a bit better, but still want to get a compression/leak down test and new plugs in. Probably won't be able to get it in for this for a couple weeks. Also watched pretty closely to the exhaust during the runs and didn't notice any kind of smoke. At least its moving in the right direction...

91808

TTuned
05-13-12, 08:37 PM
My car felt slow when i got it too didn't really spin tires and things like that. Dyno proved 440whp, and it was ugly. Paid a shop for a tune they data logged, and found things way off. and dyno tuned resulted in 520/520whp so =80/80 on 91 oct. I have mods but i know how u felt.
Our theory was that a dealer somewhere along the way messed with the software when the car had a tune. Probably changed some things to stock like settings while leaving others, aka didn't know what they were doing, or did some kind of a dealer sw update without telling the owner.

AfAdam
05-14-12, 03:44 PM
My car felt slow when i got it too didn't really spin tires and things like that. Dyno proved 440whp, and it was ugly. Paid a shop for a tune they data logged, and found things way off. and dyno tuned resulted in 520/520whp so =80/80 on 91 oct. I have mods but i know how u felt.
Our theory was that a dealer somewhere along the way messed with the software when the car had a tune. Probably changed some things to stock like settings while leaving others, aka didn't know what they were doing, or did some kind of a dealer sw update without telling the owner.

Thanks for the input. I think my next step is definately a compression/leak down test (and new plugs while I'm there). If everything checks out there, I'll move on to the ECU for tuning like you mentioned. Does anyone know off the top what the cylinder compression is supposed to be. Also any recommended spark plug or stick to manufacture recommended...

Kadonny
05-14-12, 04:46 PM
Thanks for the input. I think my next step is definately a compression/leak down test (and new plugs while I'm there). If everything checks out there, I'll move on to the ECU for tuning like you mentioned. Does anyone know off the top what the cylinder compression is supposed to be. Also any recommended spark plug or stick to manufacture recommended...

402 still seems low to me, even at your elevation. At 15% loss of stock numbers. that still has you in the 480 range. Lessen it for elevation and you should still be showing 440 at least I would think. I'm not the expert, so maybe others will chime in.

Regarding the plugs, lots of people have used with good results the NGK TR6 plugs. When I had my car, I used these plugs and had good success with them, I know many of the performance guys use them.

Good luck with your car, I still think you should be putting down more power so keep checking on things.