: Turbo chargin the N*? Might be possible!!!



JSMeloche
11-19-04, 01:37 PM
http://popularhotrodding.com/tech/0411phr_sts/
http://www.ststurbo.com/

This is a REMOTE MOUNT TURBO. The turbo is mounted in the REAR of the car, instead of the muffler!!!

This could be the solution to the cramped engine bay of our N* powered car!!!

STS 310
11-19-04, 03:06 PM
Interesting. Especially the name of the company. "STS".

JSMeloche
11-19-04, 04:01 PM
I browsed some site (boring friday afternoon, dont wanna work lol) and most of them are about F body LS1 and this kit. I think they sell some kit without any ECU modification! just turbo, pipes, oil lines and adapter. This could be a relativly easy conversion for our cars!!!

K2K
11-19-04, 08:52 PM
Nice!!

JSMeloche
11-22-04, 02:26 PM
I cant believe im not getting more reaction then this...

I think this could be a relativly cheap way to gain AWESOME HP.
Do you think the regular N* engine can take 5psi reliably??? With 5psi I think i could get 40-45% increase in hp and torque. Almost 400hp at the wheels.
Two of my biggest concern are the transmission and the headgasket. Do you think this can be reliable?

On their website STS does not seem to automaticaly include a ECU upgrade with their kit, it is optional (and highly recommended for over 5psi of boost)

The Kit from STS is a bit expensive but i think I could manage to turbo charge a car for under 1500$

Garret t4 Turbo from ebay 200-250$
Oil line and 12v oil pump 150$
Aluminimum tubing and clamps for intake 200$
Exhaust tubing and clamps 100$
K&N air filter 50$
0-5psi Boost controller 50$
Blow off valve from ebay 100-200$

This is pretty much all STS includes in the kit!!!

Even with tax this kit is almost under 1000$

Comon! get the comments moving and maybee even flames lol

dkozloski
11-22-04, 02:49 PM
A little look at turbocharger engineering reveals that the energy in the car exhaust comes as velocity, pressure, and temperature. The snail housing and the turbine wheel convert these properties to rotation of the compressor wheel and thus intake supercharging. Any reduction of the exhaust energy from cooling, or restriction between the engine and the turbo equals lost performance. You can't overrule these laws of nature by an act of congress or wishful thinking. Industrial applications of turbos are carefully designed to make the piping as short as possible and usually insulated as well. At maximum output the exhaust temperature is going to be 1650 deg.F. This means that the exhaust pipe from the engine to the turbo will be cherry red. The only application of a remote turbo in aircraft I have come across was the Republic P 47 Thunderbolt that had a GE turbocharger in the tail at the end of a lot of piping. All others had the plumbing as short as possible. With the P-47, the pilot spent a lot of time praying that the plane didn't develope a fuel system leak. I wouldn't be parking my car in a wheat field and I'd want some kind of fire suppression system.

JSMeloche
11-22-04, 03:53 PM
You have a point there... and the increase pressure/temperature will probably destroy the CAT

Im thinking of buying a junk sporty car next summer and experimenting with it ;) 25PSI of boost + 120k engine = nice increase of power AND short life! lol

Maybee ill get a old nissan or an small pickup truck, slam a remonte mount turbo (a lot easier to install then regular turbo) and drive the sh*t out of it till it explodes in a nice fire ball, hopefully i wont be in it when it explodes LOL

danbuc
11-23-04, 01:12 AM
For those of you that have a 1993-95 N*, you can always supercharge it instead. XMS racing who was developing it, was stumped on the OBDII, but they did get it do work with OBDI. I don;t know if they are still making them, but if the price is right, you could could probably custom order one. Just a thought. ;)

89eldorado
11-23-04, 02:05 AM
You would need to lower the compression... probably with custom (self made) copper head gaskets (I assume about 3mm thick)...

Your head losses would be greater sending the exhaust to the back AND then the charged air back to the front... The temperature is questionable, I havent looked my thermo book in a while, but I know a lot more would be gained at 1650 then at the lower temperatures in the muffler region... You would also have to think about the transient temperature differential between when you start the car, and when you run the car for a long period of time (ie 4 hours on a long trip). But if it was designed properly with the exhaust temperature measured when the engine had been running for a few hours it might not be that serious.

Since you would be loosing some temperature on the exhaust side and need only slightly more on the compressor side (to overcome the headlosses) you would need a hybrid. Not a garret hybrid but something you would put together yourself. You might be able to use a holset hx35 or hx30 or garret t series or mitsubishi tdo6-20g as a good starting point. A 4.6L turbo at 5psi (if ran near the exhaust manifold) would have to be about a garret t series or a holset hx35/hy35/hx30 (ie 5.9L cummins turbo diesel)... If you took one of these then youd have to be able to spin the compressor just as fast but with less available exhaust energy, which would mean youd want a more aggressive turbine impeller and/or smaller A/R ratio.

Hmmm I got an "A" in my senoir pump design class at VT, and I have all of the thermo equations and the matlab code to design the A/R and impeller specs (Vtheta,Vtan,V') (but just ran out the licsense on the matlab on my laptop, I can find something tho, maybe excel)....

Here is a list of things I would need:
1) actual exhaust temperature at least three different places on the rpm band, ie 2000rpm 3500rpm, and 5500rpm where you want to place the turbo...
you could use a thermocouple used on kilns... I'll try and find where my mom got hers and see how much it was.
2) the flow, pressure, and head loss could be foundout with equations.
3) intake/exhaust pipe diameters


Id go for a piggyback system and run a few injectors in the intake ie www.megasquirt.info

If you are looking for room, then take off the plastic engine cover and the air cleaner/air box, you might find that you have enough room up there.... Even tho its not as efficient (and I dunno how your N* exhaust is) but I was thinking on my 4.5L to put a turbo where the two manifolds meet...

Probably the only advantage to this remote system is the fact you dont have to fabricate a new set of exahaust manifolds (cut of the flanges, swap/flip and weld) , custom cast them, or try a welded set (the dont last ive heard)....

Regards,
Brian

JSMeloche
11-23-04, 10:21 AM
On the 4.6L N* there is no space to put a turbo where the 2 manifolds meet.

Thanks for the all the advice.
STSTurbo seems to build quite a simple package, i do not know if the turbos are hybrid or specialy design for the remote mounting application. But the results on LS1 and LT1 engine are pretty impressive!!!
I tought i could easily supercharge the N* cars this way but i think ill try it on a junk car first. I dont want to blow up my caddy!!!!


For those of you that have a 1993-95 N*, you can always supercharge it instead. XMS racing who was developing it, was stumped on the OBDII, but they did get it do work with OBDI. I don;t know if they are still making them, but if the price is right, you could could probably custom order one. Just a thought.

So they dropped the research? I am interested in this kit but i find it quite expensive (4500) for modest gain 90-100+hp. STSTurbo gain 175hp+ on a stock LS1 pumping almost 500hp.

eldorado1
11-23-04, 12:37 PM
Under absolutely ideal conditions, 5psi would net you 33% hp gain. Since nothing's ever ideal, I would think closer to 25%... or 375hp on the vin 9. Much more than 5psi, and you need an aftermarket ecm, forged pistons, possibly new connecting rods/bolts... PLUS, you're going to have to switch intakes to the 93-94 type, or find a way to seal that flapper on the back of the 95+ intakes. Even then, I dislike the idea of pressurized plastic. As mentioned, the compression ratio will need to be lowered. You will need more fuel(!!). You *may* need a new fuel pump. You *may* need larger injectors. I don't think you'll make the $100 exhaust, unless you weld it yourself, and get crimp bends (i.e. not mandrel).