: How do you disbale the airbags for a track day?



yonexsp
03-24-12, 02:11 PM
How do you disable the airbags for a trackday?

I'll be wearing a helmet, and think it would be better if they were disabled for a few hours of lapping.

J W
03-24-12, 02:26 PM
There's probably a way to do it but if someone told you how would that make them liable if something was to happen. Maybe you should leave it connected for extra saftey.

JDB
03-24-12, 03:45 PM
You don't. Never heard of anyone wanting to do this.

yonexsp
03-25-12, 12:46 PM
how would they be liable? That's a very American perspective.

and, because I will be wearing a full face helmet it can be dangerous if the bag goes off

Faber
03-25-12, 03:36 PM
did some looking online, seems like this is potentially more myth than reality. Here's a few postings:
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/autocrossing-and-roadracing/2818935-full-face-helmets-vs-factory-air-bags.html
http://www.tristatetuners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=111730

I think the only suggestion that makes sense is to have the visor down & not have any add/on sun visors as mentioned in the posts. Would be interesting if anyone can find information otherwise.

Might be easier to confirm the fear/risk first vs. disabling proven safety devices.

RADEoN
03-25-12, 03:41 PM
That's a very American perspective.


hands down, easily the most stupid thing i've ever heard or read. please drive your car off a cliff.

liqidvenom
03-25-12, 03:55 PM
Well he is right, most countries people arent afraid to give advice for the fear of getting sued. we pretty much own that market there.


but i would leave the airbags working if you are looking to use the 3 point harness. the airbag also helps to cushion your upper body if needed. If you have a full race seat and multipoint harness then do what you feel is best because you might not be moving much in that seat.

AAIIIC
03-25-12, 08:15 PM
You don't. Never heard of anyone wanting to do this.
I've seen the topic come up on pretty much every forum that has discussion of track days - Faber's links are some good examples. Back in 2004 the SCCA issued a safety bulletin that basically said "full face helmet + airbag = bad." (Interestingly enough, their suggestion was don't wear a full face helmet, not disable the airbags.) At some point I think they backed away from that position, as the SCCA bulletin was based on FIA data from Formula1, and many folks pointed out that's kind of apples and oranges (the seating position relative to the steering wheel is completely different between an F1 car and a street car).


and, because I will be wearing a full face helmet it can be dangerous if the bag goes off
Honestly, if your helmet fits properly, an airbag hitting it shouldn't matter. It probably won't feel great, but it shouldn't feel any worse than catching an airbag in your un-helmeted face if you were to crash on the street.

Of course, I say that having never caught an airbag in the face (or in the helmet, as the case may be).


{H}ands down, easily the most stupid thing {I}'ve ever heard or read. {Pl}ease drive your car off a cliff.
:bigroll: Overreact much? I would hope it doesn't come as a surprise to you that the good ole US of A is a ridiculously litigious society.

JDB
03-25-12, 10:21 PM
Yeah, I forgot about reading of that debate... from what I recall, there wasn't enough proof/reason of why you would want to namely in a street car using a 3pt belt.

thebigjimsho
03-25-12, 10:46 PM
I had heard of that concern and think a few tracks required open face helmets for air bag equipped cars...for a while. But I haven't seen or heard anything about it lately and I have run a full faced helmet for the last few years, on different tracks, without issue...

JDB
03-26-12, 08:51 AM
FWIW, NJ law requires a full face helmet. NJMP got a waiver from the state police to allow non-full face if you have airbags.

Don't want to end up like Dale Earnhardt.

http://www.state.nj.us/njsp/info/pdf/racing_regulations.pdf

yonexsp
03-26-12, 11:32 AM
Thx for all the advice, I'll leave the Airbags engaged, as it seems to be from all the articles more myth than fact for now.

thebigjimsho
03-26-12, 01:01 PM
FWIW, NJ law requires a full face helmet. NJMP got a waiver from the state police to allow non-full face if you have airbags.

Don't want to end up like Dale Earnhardt.

http://www.state.nj.us/njsp/info/pdf/racing_regulations.pdfDale Earnhardt died of Basilar Skull Fracture. Whether he had an open face or full face helmet probably didn't matter. A HANS device would've been much more crucial.

I've had instructors use HANS devices, even in cars with 3 point belts. It's on my wish list...

rjoffe
03-26-12, 06:30 PM
I've had instructors use HANS devices, even in cars with 3 point belts. It's on my wish list...

Jim,

Got any links to Hans devices that work with 3 point belts ?

JDB
03-26-12, 09:46 PM
Jim,

Got any links to Hans devices that work with 3 point belts ?

R3

http://www.jegs.com/p/Safety-Solutions/Safety-Solutions-R3-Head-and-Neck-Restraint-System/760464/10002/-1

Frances69
03-26-12, 10:34 PM
Never heard of anyone wanting to do thishttp://www.infoocean.info/avatar2.jpg

thebigjimsho
03-26-12, 11:17 PM
R3

http://www.jegs.com/p/Safety-Solutions/Safety-Solutions-R3-Head-and-Neck-Restraint-System/760464/10002/-1

CarandDriver listed 2 devices. I believe that was one of the device listed. HANS was the other. You can use these devices without incorporating 5/6 point harnesses, but obviously work well with them...

Junior1
03-27-12, 02:17 PM
I think the R3 will basically work with any belt system due to the nature of the design. It basically wraps around your torso and connects to the helmet so it works independent of the seatbelt/harness. Lots of ride along instructors/coaches use them.
The HANS is really more designed for a harness since both sides need to be held in place to be really effective (not to say it won't help with a 3 point, I just question the true effectiveness).
Prior to my conversion I ran the V without HANS but with a CG Lock. Nautrally now I wear the HANS in anything with a harness regardless of competition or just running laps...

My suggestion:
For occassional track days w/o harness or ridealongs, R3 with CG Lock
For Competition or fully caged car with harness, HANS

thebigjimsho
03-27-12, 04:51 PM
Yep, the HANS itself is not the best application. But, it will help some. And some is better than none at all.

V Wagon
06-12-12, 05:29 PM
bump ;)

anyone still want to know why you'd want to do this?

liqidvenom
06-13-12, 12:42 AM
Gm- only company to build a performance car that needs its owners to turn off air bags

AAIIIC
06-13-12, 07:20 AM
Gm- only company to build a performance car that needs its owners to turn off air bags
:confused: How is GM different than any other automaker when it comes to this?

Faber
06-13-12, 01:13 PM
bump ;)

anyone still want to know why you'd want to do this?

I'll bite, yes, I would want to know why you'd want to do this.

V Wagon
06-13-12, 01:45 PM
http://jalopnik.com/5915824/watch-a-cadillac-cts+vs-airbags-explode-during-a-pre+wedding-autocross

I know, it's a V2 and a V1 doesn't have side curtains, but there's still precedent there for a reason to disable airbags for competitive driving.

JFensty
06-13-12, 03:32 PM
I believe there are side curtain air bags in the V1.

V Wagon
06-14-12, 08:41 AM
Guess I didn't realize when side curtain airbags started being used. Looks like you are right on that. And in that case... some definite reason to want to disable air bags for track driving.

rjoffe
06-14-12, 08:51 AM
Have there been more then the one instance of air bag deployment in the track ?

Faber
06-14-12, 08:53 AM
Very interesting, though the line "...while they try to repair the CTS-V (and try to figure out why this happened)" seems to imply that this is not an expected chain of events and I believe that there is more than enough folks on here who have gotten above .92 lateral g's without airbags going off. Not a complete disbeliever, but not certain I can jump on the logic train that b/c it happened to this poor sap that it will happen to all others. I hope they publish the results of the findings.

V Wagon
06-14-12, 12:55 PM
Not saying that it is going to happen to everyone, or even that it is going to happen to anyone else, just saying that if someone wants to disconnect the air bags when tracking their car with a helmet on that there is precedent set for a reason to do it. Clearly it isn't max lat that sets them off, .92 g isn't that high and many people have gone higher. I don't know what rate of change of what signal it looks at, but whatever it is doesn't take super aggresive driving to be triggered.

liqidvenom
06-14-12, 04:48 PM
:confused: How is GM different than any other automaker when it comes to this?

Because in my short history i cant think of another company where owners are looking for ways to turn off the airbags so they dont blow when you take their performance based vehicle onto a track.

thebigjimsho
06-14-12, 10:36 PM
Because in my short history i cant think of another company where owners are looking for ways to turn off the airbags so they dont blow when you take their performance based vehicle onto a track.

I won the little D3 g meter challenge. I don't turn off my airbags...

AAIIIC
06-14-12, 11:35 PM
Because in my short history i cant think of another company where owners are looking for ways to turn off the airbags so they dont blow when you take their performance based vehicle onto a track.
Check the tristatetuners link that Faber posted a couple months ago, with posts by owners from a number of brands. And as I've said previously, if you go to just about any automotive forum that has discussions about track days, you will find this subject has come up. It has absolutely nothing to do with the brand of car, and everything to do with concerns about the interaction between a helmet and an airbag.

V Wagon
06-18-12, 10:07 PM
More reason to disable airbags for tracking
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/1581100161-post27.html
See last paragraph

odthetruth
06-18-12, 10:17 PM
So is there an actual how-to somewhere in here? LOL

V Wagon
06-18-12, 10:21 PM
I would say check the fuse lay put of the owners manual and pull any that say they are for airbags but I don't know for sure.

JDB
06-19-12, 04:13 PM
Remove them, saves weight.

I think Id rather chance it by keeping them in/on (if there is a way to turn them off) and then have them available should I really need them.

Did anyone see the video of the guy in a Vette at Hyperfest over the weekend at Summit Point who hit a deer near the end of the front straight? http://jalopnik.com/5919197/watch-a-deer-crash-into-a-racing-corvettes-windshield?utm_campaign=socialflow_jalopnik_facebo ok&utm_source=jalopnik_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow

You just never know what'll happen on track.... and just hope you make the right decisions that keeps everyone safe and cars leaving the same as they showed up.

crankedupforit
06-20-12, 11:17 AM
I won the little D3 g meter challenge. I don't turn off my airbags...

Pffffft! :yawn:

Faber
06-20-12, 12:35 PM
More reason to disable airbags for tracking
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/1581100161-post27.html
See last paragraph

crazy, beginning to believe that there is more to this than just urban legend or one off issues....

repenttokyo
06-20-12, 01:00 PM
More reason to disable airbags for tracking
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/1581100161-post27.html
See last paragraph

I actually saw a video of that happening.

Junior1
06-20-12, 02:06 PM
Did anyone see the video of the guy in a Vette at Hyperfest over the weekend at Summit Point who hit a deer near the end of the front straight? http://jalopnik.com/5919197/watch-a-deer-crash-into-a-racing-corvettes-windshield?utm_campaign=socialflow_jalopnik_facebo ok&utm_source=jalopnik_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow

Saw that one...

At the last V Day, I had to take the escape road going into T1 because a ZR1 dropped some coolant at entry. Needless to say after I turned around waiting for the flagger to get me an opening to get back on track, I had firsthand view of a deer running through at that very same spot. The GoPro had stopped otherwise it would have made some nice footage. I forgot who was coming down the straight and had to avoid it but I thought for sure it was getting hit...

crankedupforit
06-20-12, 04:06 PM
There was an M3 that spent an airbag at Road America on the atomic sized rumble strips coming out of turn 5 at a track day I attended last year.

AAIIIC
06-20-12, 04:19 PM
crazy, beginning to believe that there is more to this than just urban legend or one off issues....
If you had a V2, perhaps. But since nobody has come up with a single instance of a V1 having this happen, and V1s have been on the road doing track days and auto-xs for a heckuva lot longer than the V2s, I think it's safe to say it's not an issue.