: Clutch - Possible Issue ???



SevillianSTS
03-21-12, 01:35 PM
Just started the car in the garage, already warmed up, had the e-brake off, clutch all the way in, and as I pushed shifter into gear I felt a very slight surge in the car. So I shut off the radio and air, and listened.
- I have clean clutch fluid.
With the clutch all the way in, and as you push shifter into gear I can hear the driveline tug a little, or "engage" not enough to move the car, but I can feel it, and hear it.

Is this normal ? (me overthinking this)

or do I have an issue on the way ??

Thanks for your input.

darkman
03-21-12, 02:09 PM
At worst, you may need to bleed the clutch fluid - it may have some air or moisture in the system. Do you have any problem shifting gears?

SevillianSTS
03-21-12, 02:30 PM
shifts fine,

It does seem to slip out of reverse sometimes. It has always done this though in last 2 years I've had the car. I always make sure to hold it into reverse until i let out on the clutch a little and then I'm fine.

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not sure if this makes a difference:
I noticed it only does this the first time I push it into gear; as long as I do not release the clutch and move in and out of gear, car only tugs the first time.

darkman
03-21-12, 02:59 PM
shifts fine,

It does seem to slip out of reverse sometimes. It has always done this though in last 2 years I've had the car. I always make sure to hold it into reverse until i let out on the clutch a little and then I'm fine.

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not sure if this makes a difference:
I noticed it only does this the first time I push it into gear; as long as I do not release the clutch and move in and out of gear, car only tugs the first time.

The reverse thing sounds more problematic than the driveline take-up you get when putting it in gear. Popping out of gear, once in gear, is the signature of an internal transmission issue rather than a clutch engagement issue. I would not worry about it, but I would get the clutch thoroughly bled when convenient.

Cadillac Cust Svc
03-22-12, 11:54 AM
Hi SevillianSTS,

I'm in agreement with darkman; please let us know if bleeding the clutch fluid resolves the issue. If you have any questions in the meantime or would like me to follow-up on any concerns for you, don't hestitate to private message me.

Best,

Katie
Cadillac Customer Service

SevillianSTS
03-22-12, 02:15 PM
I don't think it is actually poping out of gear, I think sometimes it is just difficult to get completely into reverse.

I guess question is: for you guys... is reverse just as easy to get into as your other gears, or does it take a little finesse. Sometimes I feel it positively "click" into gear, othertimes I can't feel that "click" and that is when I usually had the issue of it sometimes poping out.


It may be a while, but I'll get the clutch fluid bleed sooner or later and get some feedback on here.

Thanks again.

Thomas M
03-22-12, 02:44 PM
I get the clunk you speak of occasionally that I can hear and feel but rarely get any kind of surging or movement from the car with the clutch depressed when it happens. Reverse goes in fairly easy for me, but I do have to push the shifter up until I feel a positive engagement which can take some searching for. I've also bled my clutch a number of times and changed the fluid in the trans out which helped with some of the other issues I was having with the transmission (though I still have other issues).

darkman
03-22-12, 02:57 PM
I don't think it is actually poping out of gear, I think sometimes it is just difficult to get completely into reverse.

I guess question is: for you guys... is reverse just as easy to get into as your other gears, or does it take a little finesse. Sometimes I feel it positively "click" into gear, othertimes I can't feel that "click" and that is when I usually had the issue of it sometimes poping out.


It may be a while, but I'll get the clutch fluid bleed sooner or later and get some feedback on here.

Thanks again.

I never have trouble getting into reverse. I do however, leave the transmission in reverse when parked more often than not because reverse is the lowest gear ratio and therefore offers the most roll resistance, and reverse in the next gear I will need to back out of my driveway.

Because of this, I am rarely hunting for reverse with a cold transmission.

mstrjon32
03-22-12, 04:32 PM
I have noticed that reverse is a bit tough to get into, but you can alleviate it by shifting into some other forward gear first and then going into reverse. I got into this habit because the first vehicle I owned was a Jeep without a synchro on reverse, so if you came to a stop and then put it straight into R, it would grind. Obviously our cars don't have this problem, but I do find that it makes getting into R easier and I just do it out of habit anyway.

Natedog
03-23-12, 11:18 PM
so if you came to a stop and then put it straight into R, it would grind. Obviously our cars don't have this problem, but I do find that it makes getting into R easier and I just do it out of habit anyway.
I have this exact problem... have been shifting into 4th before R every single time for the past 4+ years of ownership... sucks but I'm used to it.. may have it replaced under GMPP eventually though just because

bhendricks
03-24-12, 10:14 AM
My 2004 will grind the reverse gear if I idle in neutral and don't engage a forward gear 1st. If I remember correctly, I think the manual stated that this is "normal" and recommended the forward gear use.

After 14 months, it's a habit now...

SevillianSTS
03-29-12, 11:34 PM
I have not bled the clutch yet.
I do notice in the garage as I press the clutch to start the car I hear a click. Being that I am now on high-alert listening for problems; is this normal?

I also have the reverse grind issue. Still within warranty. Will they do something about it ? Seems like my local dealer always finds a way to say thats normal, or he can't replicate the problem. Reason I ask is; if it is a clutch issue they obviously won't touch it, but if its a tranny issue I am going to have them look into it.

I don't ever remember hearing the clutch make any sounds from under the car, but then again... I wasn't listening also...

darkman
03-30-12, 09:39 AM
I have not bled the clutch yet.
I do notice in the garage as I press the clutch to start the car I hear a click. Being that I am now on high-alert listening for problems; is this normal?

I also have the reverse grind issue. Still within warranty. Will they do something about it ? Seems like my local dealer always finds a way to say thats normal, or he can't replicate the problem. Reason I ask is; if it is a clutch issue they obviously won't touch it, but if its a tranny issue I am going to have them look into it.

I don't ever remember hearing the clutch make any sounds from under the car, but then again... I wasn't listening also...

I would bring the issue to the dealer's attention. You need not speculate as to whether the issue is clutch or transmission-related - just tell them the symptoms that are unacceptible, i.e. the grinding in reverse, and the click and/or lurch when placed in a foward gear. These symptoms are not normal.

SevillianSTS
03-30-12, 03:21 PM
Update: So I lifed the rear end, clutch in, move to first; no tire movement, let clutch out a little, back in... stopped wheels, moved to reverse, no tire movement. also tried going back and forth, and in different gears. All seems normal.

Could this noise I hear be failed motor mounts ??

I was just at the dealer asking about a price to bleed the clutch. ( I don't really wanna hastle with it )

fletchf
03-30-12, 03:33 PM
For what its worth my 2004 with 26k miles surges like that when I put it in first as well.

darkman
03-30-12, 03:36 PM
Could this noise I hear be failed motor mounts ??

I was just at the dealer asking about a price to bleed the clutch. ( I don't really wanna hastle with it )

Yes, the noise could be from failed motor mounts as well as part of the driveshaft, or even something loose like the exhaust.

Having the dealer bleed the clutch is not a bad idea because doing it yourself is hardly risk free. Some have even ruined the bleeder screw and had to drop the transmission to repair it.

EdmundGTP
03-30-12, 04:36 PM
Could that slight "surge" simply be from the drive train (Transmission back) rotating slightly slightly as the gears "find mesh" with one another as you shift it into 1st?

SevillianSTS
03-30-12, 09:08 PM
Got under the car and the motor mounts looked dry. Did not see any noticeable damage either.
How many are there ? I just saw the 2; one big one on each side looking from behind the engine.

I did mess with the rear wheels while in the air some more. They do "twitch" as I put it into 1st gear (after its been in another gear and clutch released.)
No forward movement as I press it into reverse though, I believe that is a good sign.

Is there a writeup somewhere on bleeding the clutch ? and how much should I expect the dealer to bleed / flush the clutch cost ?

darkman
03-30-12, 09:32 PM
Is there a writeup somewhere on bleeding the clutch ? and how much should I expect the dealer to bleed / flush the clutch cost ?

The current method that suggests the use of Mityvac to bleed the clutch (see attached). The original method is below:

Paraphrased from the Service Manual.(7-1485)
1. Fill the clutch fluid reservoir.
2. Stroke the clutch pedal from top to down position at least 15times.
3. With the clutch pedal depressed, open the concentric slavecylinder bleeder valve to release trapped air. The bleeder valve is located onthe bell housing.
4. Close the bleeder valve and slowly return the clutch pedal tothe up stop.
5. Open the bleeder valve and slowly depress the clutch pedal fromthe top to fully depressed until the fluid escapes through the bleeder.
6. Close the bleeder valve.
7. Return the clutch pedal to the up position.
8. Depress the clutch pedal. (top to down)
9. Open the bleeder valve and allow air bubbles to escape.
10. Close the bleeder valve.
Keep checking the fluid reservoir and refill between steps.
11. Repeat steps 7-10 until the fluid without bubbles escapes through the bleeder valve.
This procedure is best done with an assistant.


Dealer prices for flushing and bleeding the clutch vary a lot. Some dealers now use BG Fluids/Machines which are priced substantially higher than the Service Manual procedures used in conjunction with GM fluids.

SevillianSTS
04-04-12, 05:19 PM
Yes, the noise could be from failed motor mounts as well as part of the driveshaft, or even something loose like the exhaust.

Having the dealer bleed the clutch is not a bad idea because doing it yourself is hardly risk free. Some have even ruined the bleeder screw and had to drop the transmission to repair it.

Car is still up on ramps after I changed the trans fluid. Fluid in there was only 5-6000 miles old. Nice and clean. I changed it anyway just to eliminate that possibilty.
Anyways... I drilled out an 8mm socket and can easily stick a nail through it. I got it on the bleeder without a problem.
I would have problably gone ahead with this, but Darkman... you make me nervous with your previous quote. I guess... what are my risks ??
Bleeder seems clean; not all corroded or anything. Procedure seems pretty straight forward.
Dealer wants $180 bucks, that includes 2 bottles of the Super Dot 4 Fluid.
89374

darkman
04-04-12, 05:47 PM
You will probably be okay - the trick is to turn the bleeder just enough to "leak" each time. Also, if it does not want to come loose proceed with some caution.

SevillianSTS
04-04-12, 08:00 PM
Actually with that socket I drilled out, all went well. Pretty easy to. I liked using the nail because then once it got tight the nail would give a little rather than . me stripping threads out. =)

Fluid came out dark like dirty motor oil. Clutch feels easier and maybe a little smoother.

Car still surges though, when in N and as you press into first I can feel a slight surge; but no pulling. Reverse grind is still there also. Gonna go talk about that tomorrow.

Darkman, thanks a ton for all your advise.

SevillianSTS
05-19-12, 12:10 AM
The reverse thing sounds more problematic than the driveline take-up you get when putting it in gear. Popping out of gear, once in gear, is the signature of an internal transmission issue rather than a clutch engagement issue. I would not worry about it, but I would get the clutch thoroughly bled when convenient.

Car finally got in last Monday, Car drove there just fine, I could get it to grind in Reverse every time (if I did not go to 1st gear before Reverse), and 2nd gear felt a little "notchy", but overall drove the same as it always has.

Dealer called today; he said my transmission exploded. Told me to stop by Monday to check it out if I want.
I bought it October 2010, with 67k "Corporate Leased" very clean, and bone stock. This many miles in 3 years is definitely highway miles.
NO signs of abuse at all.
I've put 7k on it, and shocked to hear my trans was on its last leg.

Any input to this ? They have parts on order right now...

Would driving at slow speeds in higher gears do this ? I never let it "lug" but I did use to use 6th in low 40mph or so; until I read not to do this.

How much would a new clutch setup cost "parts" if I could get a good deal on labor since trans is already out of car ?
stock or LS7 ?

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I enjoy a good "spirited" drive, but I always made sure things were warmed up before driving hard too; so I see it as I drove the car the way it was built to be driven, but never "abused"

SevillianSTS
05-20-12, 10:43 AM
Any thoughts ?????

I've been after the dealer about this for over a month before it got in, and been dealing with the occasional grind, and pop out of gear for a while now.

You guys think the grinding is what caused it to "explode" ?