: Big Mistake



viking
11-17-04, 11:04 AM
BOY DID I MAKE A DUMB DECISION !!!!!!
I TRADED IS A GREAT 2003 DEVILLE ON A STS !!!!!!!!
GOT IT ON THURSDAY , GOT IT OUT OF THE GARAGE YESTERDAY GETTING RATTLES AND MISALLIGNED PANELS FIXED . THE VOICE COMMAND SYSTEM IS GARBAGE . FORGET IT . EXPECT TO GET A SORE SPOT ON YOUR RIGHT KNEE WHERE IT HITS THE CENTER CONSOLE . THERE IS NO ROOM TO STORE ANYTHING . :banghead: THE NAV. SYSTEM IS SO COMPLEX THAT I DONT THINK IT WILL EVER BE USABLE ( MAYBE I AM JUST STUPID ! ) AND THE MANUAL FOR IT IS POORLY WRITTEN .
I GUESS I FELL PREY TO ALL THE HYPE ABOUT THE CAR , AND THATS MY FAULT , BUT AS FAR AS I AM CONCERNED , THIS IS THE WORST DECISION I HAVE EVER MADE .

jworkmans
11-17-04, 11:31 AM
Viking,

You're not the only one who's having some serious second, third, fourth and fifth thoughts about the STS. I gave up a nice SRX (5 months old) for this beastie and it's already back in the shop.

Dear Lawd what have we done?

WalkerRed
11-17-04, 06:12 PM
Hmm...sorry to hear you guys are having such issues. I've had my STS for 2 months now and I'm still in love with it. I will agree that the voice recognition system has much more work to be done it, but letl's face it that's not why I bought the car. That's a nice to have..which I will probably never have a need for it..but I do understand your pain. Luckily I've had no issues as of yet (knock on wood) with anything. I guess that's the price you may pay though when you buy a new design with so much technology in it. Most new cars, the first especially, always have there flaws. Most people wait till year 2 to purhcase the car. I hope you guys get your things fxied and give the STS another try!

CTScop
11-17-04, 08:03 PM
Hmm...sorry to hear you guys are having such issues. I've had my STS for 2 months now and I'm still in love with it. I will agree that the voice recognition system has much more work to be done it, but letl's face it that's not why I bought the car. That's a nice to have..which I will probably never have a need for it..but I do understand your pain. Luckily I've had no issues as of yet (knock on wood) with anything. I guess that's the price you may pay though when you buy a new design with so much technology in it. Most new cars, the first especially, always have there flaws. Most people wait till year 2 to purhcase the car. I hope you guys get your things fxied and give the STS another try!

Exactly....why I waited for the late 2004 CTSs and will wait for the 2005-2006 STS for my next lease....Looks cool though.....

SD455TA
11-17-04, 09:10 PM
I have an order in for a 1SG package, which is do to be shipped in December.

Hearing stories like this, causes some concern, do to the complexity of the vehicle.

Can some other owners come forward, & tell us about some positive experiences
with GM's best sports sedan.

Thanks, Rich

PTC Sclade
11-17-04, 09:17 PM
Picked up my 05 STS last night. Black Raven with Cashmere. Just came back from taking it out for the first time for dinner with another couple. A fantastic automobile. The ride is terrific. In spite of being a big person (6' and 240) I do not feel cramped. I do like my Escalade but this car is something else. Have not yet tried voice recognition but everything else is coming in due time. Yes, it is complex but it able to be mastered. You just have to read the manuals over and over again and yes, they are a little more complex than the Reader's Digest but tolerable. Hope you other guys get everything up and running soon. I am in love with it already and have only had it 24 hours.

Good Running Gentlemen,

Paul

DVos
11-17-04, 11:06 PM
Had mine for 3 weeks now and it is the best car I've ever driven. And I've driven em all. TIGHT, QUIET and LUXURIOUS.

Read your manual to learn how to use your Voice Recognition. It is tough IF you aren't saying the right thing. Once you do it works like a charm.

There have been NO rattles, squeeks blah blah blah. Keep your order on that 1SG. THis car is the shit.

Playdrv4me
11-18-04, 01:45 AM
I have yet to do my "editorial test drive" of this thing, but I have to say, if the CTS was any indication, I anticipate the STS will be a wonderful vehicle in so far as the luxury and driving experience is concerned. I have nevery been a big fan of the overall design, but thats not why I want to drive it. If you cant deal with the first year bugs of a vehicle this complex, dont buy it. Mercedes has had oodles of problems with the current S Class since it came out in 2000, and its due to be replaced soon.

golfkt
12-02-04, 09:01 PM
I've had mine about 6 weeks and everyone talks about a smooth ride. I'm still looking for the smooth ride. I'd like to know where they are driving.
Mine is close to riding like an Allero. OUCH!!!

Sandy
12-02-04, 09:39 PM
I wanted to see what all the fuss was over the STS. I went to a dealer and sat in it for a long time, and then took it out on a drive - oh, about 4 miles. There was nothing wrong with it. The bucket seats felt "tight" and a little cramped, but the ride was harsh and our New Jersey roads are all a patchwork-quilt of repavement where the utility cuts them up, constantly. The STS was very harsh and delivered every pothole to the seat of the pants. I took it back and thanked them. I was honest and told the man that a smooth & comfortable ride was of upmost importance to me, and that I was going to keep my '03 Town Car ! Something in or on or under the dash, near the console was rattling as well, but only on "bumps" (of which there were many). It had alot, really alot of power, but the faster I went, the bumpier it got :confused: Regardless, I love my Town Car's satiniee smooth and ultra quiet ride.

majax
12-02-04, 10:05 PM
Well guys ya'll must admit the STS is not made to be a luxo cruzer but a high output sport sedan.

Sandy did the one you drive have the Magnetic Ride Control? Those seats are tight in order to hold you in place around the tight corners and what not. :D

majax
12-02-04, 10:10 PM
Viking,

I guess all I can say to you is that I feel for your pain. But I guess my advice may be to just sit down and think it through and don't get frustrated with it, thats what makes you hate it. If your like me, whenever I get something new I get frustrated with not knowing how to work it correctly and then I get pissed off and all and blame the thing(try not to). Just get the dealer to work the bugs and see if they can help you with the Nav. Just give it time, you'll like it.

Best Wishes :D

Sandy
12-02-04, 10:59 PM
I don't know what options it had, that were not visable. It had Navi (which I didn't dare mess with) a Moonroof, a CD and leather and was black with grey leather. The stereo was on loud and I shut it off to hear the car, (Like Lotus owners do :D ).

CaddyFan2004
12-02-04, 11:13 PM
I wanted to see what all the fuss was over the STS. I went to a dealer and sat in it for a long time, and then took it out on a drive - oh, about 4 miles. There was nothing wrong with it. The bucket seats felt "tight" and a little cramped, but the ride was harsh and our New Jersey roads are all a patchwork-quilt of repavement where the utility cuts them up, constantly. The STS was very harsh and delivered every pothole to the seat of the pants. I took it back and thanked them. I was honest and told the man that a smooth & comfortable ride was of upmost importance to me, and that I was going to keep my '03 Town Car ! Something in or on or under the dash, near the console was rattling as well, but only on "bumps" (of which there were many). It had alot, really alot of power, but the faster I went, the bumpier it got :confused: Regardless, I love my Town Car's satiniee smooth and ultra quiet ride.

If a Town Car is your benchmark for ride, you don't want an STS. Try a Deville - or a Buick.

Sandy
12-02-04, 11:42 PM
The only Buick I like is the Park Avenue, but I don't like the style of it.
I drove a deVille in 2003 for about an hour, then the Town Car, then back to the de Ville. The rest is history. I would have bought a 2004 Seville, they rode like my T.C.

Ralph
12-03-04, 02:46 AM
I fit perfectly in the new STS. I'm 5'11'' and 175 pounds.

I also can't imagine a nicer ride than my Dad's '03 DTS. Smooth, quiet and very good handling, road noise isolation, etc. However, I'm sure that with the TC's better balancing due to RWD it rides as nice or nicer as Sandy says.

Playdrv4me
12-03-04, 02:46 AM
If a Town Car is your benchmark for ride, you don't want an STS. Try a Deville - or a Buick.

The 2003 Town Car has got to be one of the all time best riding luxury sedans on the planet. I spent a week splitting one between me and a friend who rented it in California. I loved the fat steering wheel with the upscale wood, the reverse backup which is logically placed and works well, comfy seats, imposing size and satin smooth ride and power delivery. I WILL own a 2003 or 2004 TC at some point in the next few years. This coming from someone who typically likes german ride cars, but the TC is the exception right now for me. Now that you can get them with Navigation, THX Sound, heated and cooled seats and Xenon lights, its a serious contender.

My only gripe is the "its still your Dad's Lincoln" appearance. The Deville wins in the looks department for sure, because a deep black DTS with custom wheels and tint, and the right exterior touches, can look mean and cool. A TC always looks like a typical bland luxo cruiser.

Sandy
12-03-04, 07:57 AM
You named alot of the things that I like, especially the steering wheel and one set of fabulous brakes!!!

Because of the very similiar style of the 2003 compared to the 1998 thru 2002, people do not realize the the entire chassis was redesigned for '03. It's absolutely acres apart from any prior Town Car, in ride AND handling and cornering. The only thing it now needs is MORE power! The H.P. is 239 and the weight is 4,200 LBS. They need to drop the Mustang Cobra V-8 into it. 300 H.P. awaits. They now need to address the exterior. Take a Jaguar XJ, give it a Lincolnesque grille and an Audi A8 roofline with deVille taillamps and blend it all together....

don_mccarter
12-03-04, 10:13 AM
Before the STS I had a 2002 Lincoln Continental with the
32 valve "Intech" V8. It had plenty of power.
I test drove the 2005 Town Car, it is grossly under powered.
You would think that at the least Lincoln would use
the Continental engine in the TC.
I probably would have bought another Continental
if they still made them.

Katshot
12-03-04, 11:30 AM
STS owners can EASILY be talking apples and oranges due to the fact that there are SO MANY option levels available for the car. The STS can be anywhere from a $40K car to an over $60K car depending on options.

CaddyFan2004
12-03-04, 07:25 PM
The only Buick I like is the Park Avenue, but I don't like the style of it.
I drove a deVille in 2003 for about an hour, then the Town Car, then back to the de Ville. The rest is history. I would have bought a 2004 Seville, they rode like my T.C.

Did they still have the DHS and DTS versions of the Deville in 2003? Sounds like you might have liked a DHS, or a Seville SLS.

Sandy
12-03-04, 07:40 PM
The Seville SLS was my 2nd choice. They just didn't have any color I liked enough to live with for four years.... and my dealer went out of business & the next closest was far away. The Lincoln dealer is very close.

ellives
12-03-04, 08:51 PM
The only Buick I like is the Park Avenue, but I don't like the style of it.
I drove a deVille in 2003 for about an hour, then the Town Car, then back to the de Ville. The rest is history. I would have bought a 2004 Seville, they rode like my T.C.

Complete rubbish. There's no way a 2004 Seville rides like a town car. They address two different requirements (and customers.) The De Ville is the closest match.

My 2 cents.

majax
12-03-04, 08:56 PM
I fit perfectly in the new STS. I'm 5'11'' and 175 pounds.

I also can't imagine a nicer ride than my Dad's '03 DTS. Smooth, quiet and very good handling, road noise isolation, etc. However, I'm sure that with the TC's better balancing due to RWD it rides as nice or nicer as Sandy says.

wow you are only 20lbs more than me, were small IMO.

My dads STS rides fantastic and I don't think a suspension has to be soft to be comfortable. Actualy my favorite ride ever is our STS cause at all times the car stays parallel to the road, you don't sink into the pot holes and its not so soft that if you went off a curb the wheel wouldnt go through the well.

Sandy
12-03-04, 09:31 PM
Complete rubbish. There's no way a 2004 Seville rides like a town car. They address two different requirements (and customers.) The De Ville is the closest match.

My 2 cents.

This was a 2003 Seville SLS and a 2003 Town Car. They were equally quiet and had no wind nose at speed, they both had strong brakes, and were very quiet & both very smooth. The Town Car had much nicer door panels and no visable plastic "frames" around swirch gear. The Seville was faster and was shorter. The Seville could be tossed into a curve and held on tighter, but the Town Car wasn't far behind. The Seville forced me to chose between a CD and a glove box. I wanted both. The Town Car has the CD in the trunk so I get both that & the Glove box. The overall feeling in the Seville's interior was sterle while the Town Car was one of warmth. I also loved the power closing trunk from the key fob and the fact that the dealer is 4.5 miles from my house, whereeas the Caddy dealer is 26 miles away. They were both my #1 & #2 choices, far ahead of the rest.

majax
12-03-04, 09:58 PM
What the h@!!, it's not sterel except the SLS does not have full wood on the door trim.

what do you mean plastic frames?

Also do you want a $300 cd changer in the trunk where it gets hit by your golf bags or whatever, where it just takes up that little bit of room you need to get the christmas tree in just right. Also there is still room in the glovebox for a few things pluss you have huge door pockets, a flip fold in the center consol, glovebox with sunglass holder, umbrella holders under the front seats, and card holders in the sunshades.

I will be back in a bit to post more I dont intend to be mean sandy.

By the way, trunk is a little stange due to the RWD in the town car and is not as largre as the Seville

Playdrv4me
12-04-04, 03:52 AM
I think part of the reason the 03+ Town Car is such a perfect vehicle, is the fact that for once the manufacturer really seemed to listen to what customer wanted, surveyed what the other big guys were doing, observed slumping sales of their previous model, and went balls out to increase sales and maintain customer loyalty (Town Car return ownership stands at 60%, one of the, if not the highest in the industry). The result of that was a car that had things people wouldnt except in a Lincoln. Xenon lights, smooth non-plasticky door panels and switchgear, top quality hides etc etc. Then in 04/05 they made it even better by throwing in the stuff thats been missing from it, like the Nav and audio system, something that would have made me go to the Lincoln LS V8 Premium in the past.

By the way, the Continental never regained the glory it had back in the day. The 1988-94 model was a disaster on the order of the H-Bomb (yet somehow I just KNOW someone is going to post "hey! I liked that car!"), with constantly failing air ride suspensions, cracking heads in the UNDERPOWERED V6, chintzy interior and I could go on. The 95+ was just OK. I had a 1996 which my brother now owns, and the paint has gone to crap, there is rattles galore, the air ride failed once and was entirely replaced, and the transmission (apparently a Ford Taurus retrofit) never handled the 32 Valve 4.6L engine's output very well. The car was also not really based on any other car in Ford's lineup, and so parts were always expensive for the driveline. In its defense, the rest of the car has held up well, even at 130,000 miles. When they tried to redesign this in 1998 however, it was clear the Connie wasnt going anywhere... R.I.P Continental. Lets see if Lincoln can give us a re-introduction on the order of the new TC or 2003+ LS.

majax
12-04-04, 04:02 AM
Yeah I do like the Town Car.

If you want an easy goin car that serves purpose, it's very practicle IMO

Playdrv4me
12-04-04, 04:08 AM
Yeah I do like the Town Car.

If you want an easy goin car that serves purpose, it's very practicle IMO

And the used ones are a BARGAIN! I found a couple of 04 Ultimate's for about 27k on AutoTrader. Not bad for a car with a 50k sticker. I know the literature CLAIMS the 04 has Navigation and THX by the way, but I could not find anything to support this in a search of used ones in the entire country.

Ralph
12-04-04, 04:10 AM
By the way, the Continental never regained the glory it had back in the day. The 1988-94 model was a disaster on the order of the H-Bomb (yet somehow I just KNOW someone is going to post "hey! I liked that car!"), with constantly failing air ride suspensions, cracking heads in the UNDERPOWERED V6, chintzy interior and I could go on. The 95+ was just OK. I had a 1996 which my brother now owns, and the paint has gone to crap, there is rattles galore, the air ride failed once and was entirely replaced, and the transmission (apparently a Ford Taurus retrofit) never handled the 32 Valve 4.6L engine's output very well. The car was also not really based on any other car in Ford's lineup, and so parts were always expensive for the driveline. In its defense, the rest of the car has held up well, even at 130,000 miles. When they tried to redesign this in 1998 however, it was clear the Connie wasnt going anywhere... R.I.P Continental. Lets see if Lincoln can give us a re-introduction on the order of the new TC or 2003+ LS.

I thought you said earlier this year that you cannot get the replacement passive struts for Connie once they fail, but Cadillac you can?

Playdrv4me
12-04-04, 04:11 AM
I thought you said earlier this year that you cannot get the replacement passive struts for Connie once they fail, but Cadillac you can?

Ohh no no... the ENTIRE system was replaced at the Extended Warranty companies cost.

majax
12-04-04, 04:15 AM
And the used ones are a BARGAIN! I found a couple of 04 Ultimate's for about 27k on AutoTrader. Not bad for a car with a 50k sticker. I know the literature CLAIMS the 04 has Navigation and THX by the way, but I could not find anything to support this in a search of used ones in the entire country.

My moms boss has one, I wouldn't buy one if I had the money(No offens to anyone) I am more of a Sport Touring or Deville guy. Yeah good bargain.

I'd definatley want the Ultimate if I did the low end version has a cop car interior.

Ralph
12-04-04, 04:17 AM
Ohh no no... the ENTIRE system was replaced at the Extended Warranty companies cost.

But can you get "passive struts" for a Connie without having to pay through the nose at the Lincoln dealership?

That's what I thought you mentioned once.

Crozier
12-04-04, 11:20 AM
BOY DID I MAKE A DUMB DECISION !!!!!!
I TRADED IS A GREAT 2003 DEVILLE ON A STS !!!!!!!!
GOT IT ON THURSDAY , GOT IT OUT OF THE GARAGE YESTERDAY GETTING RATTLES AND MISALLIGNED PANELS FIXED . THE VOICE COMMAND SYSTEM IS GARBAGE . FORGET IT . EXPECT TO GET A SORE SPOT ON YOUR RIGHT KNEE WHERE IT HITS THE CENTER CONSOLE . THERE IS NO ROOM TO STORE ANYTHING . :banghead: THE NAV. SYSTEM IS SO COMPLEX THAT I DONT THINK IT WILL EVER BE USABLE ( MAYBE I AM JUST STUPID ! ) AND THE MANUAL FOR IT IS POORLY WRITTEN .
I GUESS I FELL PREY TO ALL THE HYPE ABOUT THE CAR , AND THATS MY FAULT , BUT AS FAR AS I AM CONCERNED , THIS IS THE WORST DECISION I HAVE EVER MADE .

The new STS is one of the finest vehicles on the road today. It competes with and beats many of Japan and Germany's finest cars.
I believe that you're from the group of people who Cadillac's new lineup of cars were not intended.
Your 2003 Deville was the last of a dying breed of huge, comfortable, pillow ride vehicles. They were built for old people. The ride was for old people, the radio and controls were for old people, the styling was for old people.
These new cars are drawing a much younger crowd who will use the car in ways the Devilles were never meant to be used.
Most people today have been rasied on computers and so the Navigation and Voice command systems come very naturally. I had it down after about 2 or three hours of using it. (my brother's)
The STS has more room in it than any of its direct competetors. (5 series or E class) You traded down in size from one of the largest cars on the road to a mid sized luxury sedan.
I love the Devilles. I love big american soft rides. I have a fleetwood and also a Park Avenue. I also love these beautifully designed, highly athletic new Caddys. I had a CTS and am looking forward to picking up an STS-V when they become available.
The old caddys and the new caddys are two completely different beasts meant for different people. It isn't the STS's "fault" that you don't like it. It is your "fault" for not researching and test driving adaquately before purchasing.
No flames intended. All just my opinion of course! Good luck with your car. They'll get the little issues ironed out. It took about 3 months to get my brother in law's brand new 7 series to even run right.

Blue Chip
12-04-04, 12:24 PM
My STS has no rattles or misaligned panels. The voice commands work fine if you know how to use them. My right knee rests on a nicely padded area. I count at least nine storage places. The manual (compared to most manuals lately) is well written. In short, I have no problems and, even though I thoroughly researched the STS and competitors before purchase, I am delighted by the nice surprises I have encountered. I was eager to discuss the car on this forum, but I think it's useless. In months of checking it every day, I've seen only a few useful posts. Most of the posts have nothing to do with the STS or are pure BS. This forum is in need of being severely moderated.

Sandy
12-04-04, 12:56 PM
Crozier, I tend to agree with the basic gist that you are conveying above. However, your distain for old people is also evident. I am 57. If you think that is "old" you've got a bigger problem than Viking has with his STS. 57 is not old! I play deck tennis, walk, and still "fool around" with the wife. I have a full head of dark brown hair, and not a single facial wrinkle. I hope you are as good at 57 !!!

That said, TRUE, I am NOT a fan of computers, much less Navagational systems. I drive very little, about 5,000 miles a year and I don't go places that I don't know how to get to. Rarely do I travel further than 30 miles from home.

So....does THAT all mean that I can't enjoy a full sized luxury car with a traditional luxury smooth ride? I have to be bumped around over the patchwork lousey roads full of pot holes and poorly executed utility workers construction repairs, so that I can keep up with the fool in the BMW taking the interstate exit "U" turn at 70 MPH without any body lean? Sure, he can whip my @$$ but good on an autocross, but I know I don't (and I don't think he goes) autocrossing!! Cadillacs & Lincolns were meant to be LUXURY cars, they were never concieved to be Sport Touring intermediate sedans. They didn't earn their reputations from decades of producing Sport Touring Sedans. Cadillac tried 2 times, and failed. (Cinnamom & Catera).

I am sure the STS is a good car. No argument there. But I'm also sure that my Town Car is smoother & quieter. When I go autocrossing I'll rent a STS.
BTW, M-B & BMW fail to impress me. 'Ya know "Friendly Fries" ~ well the Germans turned us down, just as much as did the French. My $$$ is staying here in the good old US of A !

ellives
12-04-04, 01:32 PM
Crozier, I tend to agree with the basic gist that you are conveying above. However, your distain for old people is also evident. I am 57. If you think that is "old" you've got a bigger problem than Viking has with his STS. 57 is not old! I play deck tennis, walk, and still "fool around" with the wife. I have a full head of dark brown hair, and not a single facial wrinkle. I hope you are as good at 57 !!!

That said, TRUE, I am NOT a fan of computers, much less Navagational systems. I drive very little, about 5,000 miles a year and I don't go places that I don't know how to get to. Rarely do I travel further than 30 miles from home.

So....does THAT all mean that I can't enjoy a full sized luxury car with a traditional luxury smooth ride? I have to be bumped around over the patchwork lousey roads full of pot holes and poorly executed utility workers construction repairs, so that I can keep up with the fool in the BMW taking the interstate exit "U" turn at 70 MPH without any body lean? Sure, he can whip my @$$ but good on an autocross, but I know I don't (and I don't think he goes) autocrossing!! Cadillacs & Lincolns were meant to be LUXURY cars, they were never concieved to be Sport Touring intermediate sedans. They didn't earn their reputations from decades of producing Sport Touring Sedans. Cadillac tried 2 times, and failed. (Cinnamom & Catera).

I am sure the STS is a good car. No argument there. But I'm also sure that my Town Car is smoother & quieter. When I go autocrossing I'll rent a STS.
BTW, M-B & BMW fail to impress me. 'Ya know "Friendly Fries" ~ well the Germans turned us down, just as much as did the French. My $$$ is staying here in the good old US of A !

I stand by my original statement. The STS and the Town car are in different categories. Plain and simple. Comparing them is a waste of energy. When you say these cars were MEANT to be luxury cars, the discussion should center around what a luxury car IS. It certainly USED to be big and floaty Today it means different things to different people. No car is going to please everyone.

While C & L have been able to get by selling to the over 50 crowd (I didn't say old) they have realized their traditional market is dying off and the new breed of luxury car buyers want performance.

I've probably told this story here before but recently I had to meet the top management of my company at a building we were considering leasing. We're all around the same age. When my boss pulled up his first question was "who's driving the Cadillac?" When they found out it was me a couple of them both told me their wives wouldn't let them buy a Cadillac. They are for old people. Well guess what? Old people eventually die off and the younger ones (who think Cadillacs are for OTHER old people) will STILL think Cadillacs are for old people when they get old (even though like Sandy they won't think THEY are old.) This doesn't bode well for C & L as time goes on and they MUST pursued moving the demographics of their customers down the age brackets.

Notice Cadillac has not announced any plans (that I know of) for the De Ville. It will continue to be the big frontwheel drive car it is for the foreseeable future. If you want to compare the Town Car to something, it ought to be to the De Ville, the 700 series, the S-class or the like. The STS it is not. In fact I've been considering a DTS myself simply for the size. Having two Sevilles means I have two cars that won't carry enough. :)

Ralph
12-04-04, 01:33 PM
Your 2003 Deville was the last of a dying breed of huge, comfortable, pillow ride vehicles. They were built for old people. The ride was for old people, the radio and controls were for old people, the styling was for old people.

Huge, comfortable, pillow ride vehicles are certainly NOT in a dying breed. As long as there is a market for them, they will continue to produce them. What would you call the Escalade? If I recall, the 2008 Deville replacement is much larger, etc. The STS is no Sprint either.

I find the styling of the Deville, especially the DTS very sporty. The fastback like rear window and the aggressive stance, etc. Cpmpare the DTS to my Fleetwood and you have a VERY sporty, modern-styled vehicle IMO.

Sandy, 57 is still quite young especially in today's medical world with the technology. 70 is getting "old." ;)

Crozier
12-04-04, 02:04 PM
Crozier, I tend to agree with the basic gist that you are conveying above. However, your distain for old people is also evident. I am 57. If you think that is "old" you've got a bigger problem than Viking has with his STS. 57 is not old! I play deck tennis, walk, and still "fool around" with the wife. I have a full head of dark brown hair, and not a single facial wrinkle. I hope you are as good at 57 !!!

That said, TRUE, I am NOT a fan of computers, much less Navagational systems. I drive very little, about 5,000 miles a year and I don't go places that I don't know how to get to. Rarely do I travel further than 30 miles from home.

So....does THAT all mean that I can't enjoy a full sized luxury car with a traditional luxury smooth ride? I have to be bumped around over the patchwork lousey roads full of pot holes and poorly executed utility workers construction repairs, so that I can keep up with the fool in the BMW taking the interstate exit "U" turn at 70 MPH without any body lean? Sure, he can whip my @$$ but good on an autocross, but I know I don't (and I don't think he goes) autocrossing!! Cadillacs & Lincolns were meant to be LUXURY cars, they were never concieved to be Sport Touring intermediate sedans. They didn't earn their reputations from decades of producing Sport Touring Sedans. Cadillac tried 2 times, and failed. (Cinnamom & Catera).

I am sure the STS is a good car. No argument there. But I'm also sure that my Town Car is smoother & quieter. When I go autocrossing I'll rent a STS.
BTW, M-B & BMW fail to impress me. 'Ya know "Friendly Fries" ~ well the Germans turned us down, just as much as did the French. My $$$ is staying here in the good old US of A !

I have not distain for 'old' people. I also like their taste when it comes to cars. Like I said, I have a caddy fleetwood (as big as they come) and a new Buick Park Avenue. Big quiet, and soft.

If cadillac didn't make a big change, they were going to go the way of the oldsmobile. The CTS has proven to be a HUGE hit and hopefully the STS will do well in its own maket.

Just as Ellives said, the STS and the Town Car are not comparable vehicles. I suppose they used to compete in some respects, but the STS has moved on to new territory.

I honestly feel kinda bad that traditional cadillac buyers go out and buy an STS and feel like they were mislead or cheated or something. Two generations mixing together that don't understand one another.

ellives
12-04-04, 02:19 PM
Huge, comfortable, pillow ride vehicles are certainly NOT in a dying breed. As long as there is a market for them, they will continue to produce them. What would you call the Escalade? If I recall, the 2008 Deville replacement is much larger, etc. The STS is no Sprint either.

I find the styling of the Deville, especially the DTS very sporty. The fastback like rear window and the aggressive stance, etc. Cpmpare the DTS to my Fleetwood and you have a VERY sporty, modern-styled vehicle IMO.

Sandy, 57 is still quite young especially in today's medical world with the technology. 70 is getting "old." ;)

Ha -- Sandy sounds like he's kept in good shape. Good for him. Funny you mention the 'slade. I've always found it funny people complain about the C & L's being too big... and these same people run out and buy these monstrosity SUV's that get crap gas mileage, handle worse than any Cadillac ever made and take up a city block to park. The only advantage they have is AWD and now FINALLY Cadillac has thrown the gauntlet down. At least they finally addressed the market with the 'slade and an even better job with the SRX.

GM has the product finally. They need to do something about their financial structure. They can't keep having 1 employee for every 2.5 former employees on the pension dole and continue to be financially viable. Those days are over and they better clean house before Toyota cleans their clocks.

Ralph
12-04-04, 02:20 PM
When they found out it was me a couple of them both told me their wives wouldn't let them buy a Cadillac. They are for old people.

If most of us had to do what our women say, we'd be dressed in pink, with a flowered apron for cooking and vaccuming everyday.

That shows what THOSE women know about the "new" Cadillacs.

Their loss, our gain.

Ralph
12-04-04, 02:25 PM
Funny you mention the 'slade. I've always found it funny people complain about the C & L's being too big... and these same people run out and buy these monstrosity SUV's that get crap gas mileage, handle worse than any Cadillac ever made and take up a city block to park.

Good point. Especially when rear visability is nil on those vehicles, It usually scares me to see so many soccor mom's behind the wheel of those things.

Sandy
12-04-04, 02:28 PM
I guess it's Old Mental Images that Die Hard! When I was YOUNGer at age 31 I too wanted a fast car that could corner and excel at braking & go-power. I bought a Corvette, 1976. (Okay, one of the slowest 'Vettes of all time - but still a Corvette.) It was Ferrari-Fast coming out of a 1972 Imperial LeBaron 4-Door Hardtop ! I felt the same way. The "Fast" part and the "Cornering" parts were all I hoped for, but - OH MY GAWD, that horrible ride! Coming from the Imperial to the Corvette felt like the Corvette had square tires mounted on triangular wheels !! I soon began driving like I was drunk, avoiding every road imperfection. I live in NJ and at the time was dating a girl from New York State, so every weekend up NY I'd go weaving in & out in the Vette. When I arrived, 1st place I had to go was to pee !!!
I used to call it bladder-shake.
After that, at age 33 (1978) I went back into a new 1978 Imperail and was very happy. So, I've been in big "floaty" {compliment} luxury cars ever since, so I got elderly at age 34. Like ya said...Different tastes. I think the next generation deVille (or DTS or DHS) will be the last of the big soft Caddies. If they run it for 4 years, we prehistoric parasites should all be gone from the earth. ;) :halo: :rolleyes:

Playdrv4me
12-05-04, 02:51 AM
If you want to compare the Town Car to something, it ought to be to the De Ville, the 700 series, the S-class or the like. The STS it is not. In fact I've been considering a DTS myself simply for the size. Having two Sevilles means I have two cars that won't carry enough. :)

While I agree with your Town Car and DTS comparison, I would say the S Class and especially the 7 Series are probably closer in true driving dynamic to the STS than the DTS. Particularly the performance versions, like the S55 and the 760. Given that, the STS is one of those vehicles that competes in BOTH the E and S Class, and 5 and 7 Series categories, so it really quite a chameleon when it comes to discerning its true market segment.