: Harmonic balancer?



Wolfpath2004
02-28-12, 09:09 PM
My harmonic balancer seems to be wobbling while the verhicle is running. Is this normal or should I be worried. If so, how can I repair this? Thanks

darkman
02-28-12, 09:27 PM
It should not wobble. The harmonic balancers can come loose or fail, and in either case cause collateral damage. You may want to measure the wobble, using some sort of fixed pointer, to make sure it is not just "optics."

06BlackV
02-28-12, 11:27 PM
I have also a wobble, its slightly tho, took it to mechanic he said the shaft is spinning true, so i left it like that.

Wolfpath2004
02-29-12, 02:16 PM
Also the rubber bushing in the balancer is squeezing out. What do you think? If it needs replacing how is it done?

darkman
02-29-12, 03:02 PM
http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/2004-2007-cadillac-cts-v-performance/248911-crank-pulley-failure-help.html

CancerJCC
02-29-12, 03:03 PM
Also the rubber bushing in the balancer is squeezing out. What do you think? If it needs replacing how is it done?

A puller and a new TTY GM bolt or ARP bolt.

.:stealth:.
03-01-12, 11:30 PM
I've had my harmonic balancer fail twice in the past 10K miles that I've owned the car. It starts wobbling, then the belts starts squeaking against the pulley when it gets really bad. It will almost sound like a bad pulley bearing. Eventually, the rubber will completely fail and it'll cause you all kinds of headaches. Get it fixed when it starts wobblin'

PISNUOFF
03-02-12, 07:26 AM
Buy an aftermarket one. Use a super long bolt to install it.

Wolfpath2004
03-24-12, 12:02 PM
What is the difference between underdrive and overdrive harmonic dampers?

06BlackV
03-24-12, 12:33 PM
Buy an aftermarket one. Use a super long bolt to install it.

What do u prefer? I found an aftermarket ATI damper , do u know anything about this company? Is this a good choice?

FuzzyLogic
03-24-12, 01:00 PM
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ATI-917266/

That's what you need. Alternately, I could sell you my OEM balancer (22k miles) for a heck of a lot less when I pull it off my car next week.

06BlackV
04-02-12, 02:43 AM
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ATI-917266/

That's what you need. Alternately, I could sell you my OEM balancer (22k miles) for a heck of a lot less when I pull it off my car next week.

Will that fit my ls2 crankshaft ?

06BlackV
04-02-12, 04:22 AM
I had mine replaced at the dealer 8 months ago (warranty) , its wobbling again just like before, will the dealer replace it under a goodwill program because it happened under a year?

FuzzyLogic
04-02-12, 07:47 AM
Will that fit my ls2 crankshaft ?

I have the same CTS-V that you have. Yes.

darkman
04-02-12, 07:58 AM
I had mine replaced at the dealer 8 months ago (warranty) , its wobbling again just like before, will the dealer replace it under a goodwill program because it happened under a year?

I would certainly ask and/or complain - the life expectancy of an harmonic balancer is pretty much the life of the car, which means the one they installed had to be defective or damaged by their installation.

06BlackV
04-02-12, 10:59 AM
I would certainly ask and/or complain - the life expectancy of an harmonic balancer is pretty much the life of the car, which means the one they installed had to be defective or damaged by their installation.

Thanks Darkman, i can always rely on u to help out ... I took it in and they said that part has a 1 year 12,000mile warranty, so they are replacing it for free. He was troubled that it went bad already and is worried that my crankshaft is in fact out of round but it cant be because when they replaced it the first time , it spun with 0% wobble, perfectly smooth.

FuzzyLogic
04-02-12, 12:36 PM
I would certainly ask and/or complain - the life expectancy of an harmonic balancer is pretty much the life of the car, which means the one they installed had to be defective or damaged by their installation.

That's not what the people I've talked to have said. Even if it is relatively well-made, it will deteriorate faster if you drive the engine hard or make more power than the original balancer was designed for.

Cadillac Cust Svc
04-02-12, 03:09 PM
Very happy to see that your dealership is indeed replacing the part for free, 06BlackV! Please keep us updated on the resolution once you get your V back, and don't hesitate to send me a private message anytime.

Best,

Katie
Cadillac Customer Service

SevillianSTS
05-06-12, 12:13 AM
http://youtu.be/dd3waoHGkWg

Camera in slow motion. Its not squealing or anything, but I need new motor mounts too; probably why I don't feel it ?

CadzillaTN
05-11-12, 01:50 AM
Check mine out - I can't tell if this is bad or not- not as bad as Sevillian's by any means. It actually looks a good bit wobblier in person than it does in this video due to the frame rate.

This one was a replacement, installed almost 1 year ago. I've only driven about 9k miles since. The problem is, I have a pretty noticeable all-rpm wobble like vibration that is 100% engine related (I tested it with the trans off the car). I will probably take it in and see if they will replace again under the 1 yr warranty.


http://youtu.be/nX6hsibRqvY

D3l7a3ch0
05-11-12, 05:22 AM
wolf, the rubber you notice squeezing out, it's supposed to be bonded in there. it shouldn't move. vibrations translate into bearing wear, and that causes lower oil pressures--bearings mate the pistons and crankshaft, and maintenance doesn't get more labor intensive than that. I'm at 90k miles, and I plan to do a rebuild within the next 10k miles, to stay ahead of things. for the person who doesn't perform the work themselves, a remanufactured engine is the most cost-effective solution. if you're concerned about it, I'd say the oil psi numbers are the best indicator of whether you're safe. GM sets 80k miles as the warranty limit, and I feel good about setting 100k as the time to replace all gaskets, seals, pumps, and moving parts except crank and pistons.

CadzillaTN
05-11-12, 05:48 AM
What does all that babbling mean? He needs a new engine because of a balancer?

D3l7a3ch0
05-11-12, 05:57 AM
it could cause faster bearing wear, which is one of my concerns in deciding to rebuild the engine by 100k miles. bearing wear is ok, but lower oil pressure from wider bearing clearances can lead to wear on the block.

just... keep an eye on the oil psi numbers. a lifetime of mobil 1 is good, but chasing a balancer problem isn't the end of maintenance.

DrSpeed
05-11-12, 07:18 PM
Swapping it out yourself isn't too terribly difficult - but based on those 2 videos, you should fix it.

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/2004-2007-cadillac-cts-v-performance/259729-fluidampr-harmonic-balancer-installation-cadillac-cts.html

SevillianSTS
05-11-12, 07:32 PM
so what is good oil psi # idling, and driving ? 37-38 idle, 42-45 driving ?

D3l7a3ch0
05-11-12, 07:59 PM
that's what I get, there's another thread about psi numbers, I think that's about right for most people.

SevillianSTS
05-14-12, 11:02 AM
http://youtu.be/dd3waoHGkWg

Camera in slow motion. Its not squealing or anything, but I need new motor mounts too; probably why I don't feel it ?


Just dropped her off at the dealer, had a list of issues to check on.
I mentioned the harmonic balancer wobbling and he said if its not squeeling or "showing" symptoms, they probably won't replace it.
I just left it at that, and figured I would let them check it out first, see what they say and then get into more if I have to.

What would you guys do ?

CadzillaTN
05-14-12, 05:14 PM
Tell them the guys at firestone said it wasn't so much the wobble but the rubber layer that's separating, which could also indicate it might fail prematurely.

FuzzyLogic
05-14-12, 06:55 PM
My PSI numbers have never been that low. While I will get down to about 37 when the oil is hot and the car is idling, I usually hit 65 psi at WOT. '06 with 23k miles. Oil changed every 2500 miles.

D3l7a3ch0
05-15-12, 12:30 AM
I'm willing to believe it. what worries me are the rolled steel pushrods that are stock in these engines. there's more than one reason I want to open it up and replace some things.

CadzillaTN
06-22-12, 07:17 PM
wow. so I get the radiator out today and I'm feeling around the edge of my balancer, all feels ok...then I go to check the bolt and it's not even tight!!! I could spin it off with my fingers. No wonder i have a "full time engine vibration"..

Stupid @#$$@!%$$@ dealer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I can't say I'm surprised. They fouled up everything they touched from minute one on my V.

Question:
This balancer was put on less than 10k miles ago. The bolt "looks" fine and the balancer "looks" fine;

I have a new stock balancer and crank bolt in hand. Should I go ahead and replace the balancer and bolt, just crank the old bolt down, or follow the procedure to make sure it's seated with the existing bolt and use the new bolt to secure it?

Also, I have a torque wrench that only goes to 200 ft lbs. I'm willing to go get a new one to hit the 240 ft lbs, but is there another way to hit 240? I read in that fluidamper thread about torquing to 40ft lbs then going an additional 140 degrees. Will that suffice in this situation?....


on a side note, if this thing was more easily "spinning" around would it affect other accessories by spinning them slower? My power steering has felt very weak for a while and my battery dies after sitting for 2 days but battery and alternator are fine (I haven't checked the dimmer switch thing)...we'll see I guess...

darkman
06-23-12, 10:08 AM
Are your crank bolts OEM or ARP? - The OEM is torque-to-yield and should not be reused. The ARPs are torqued to a specific torque value, and are reusable.

The torque-to-yield spec is:


Installation Pass Using OLD BOLT to Ensure the Balancer is Completely Installed - 330 Nm (240 ft. lbs.)






First Pass Install a NEW Bolt After the Installation Pass and Tighten as Described in the First and Final,

50 Nm (37 ft. lbs.)






Final Pass

140 degrees






Using the OLD Bolt for the first pass is considered by some to be risky since it may strip the threads in the crank - the alternative is to use a special installation bolt found in harmonic balancer installation/removal kits.

Finally - do not use the torque-to-yield procedure with an ARP Crank bolt - Use instead the ARP spec (which I do not know with certainty.)

CadzillaTN
06-24-12, 04:54 AM
Thanks for the info. I have stock bolts.. I also got a 300lb torque wrench today.


Out of curiosity, why would there be a risk of stripping with the used bolt and not the new one? The threads are weaker? You'd think they would publish a warning or something..


Worst case I strip it. If that happens I'll locktite the heck out of it to buy me enough time to burn the car.

darkman
06-24-12, 11:39 AM
Out of curiosity, why would there be a risk of stripping with the used bolt and not the new one? The threads are weaker? You'd think they would publish a warning or something..

The problem using the old bolt to pull the balancer onto the crank involves the length of the bolt. Specifically, the bolt begins to encounter resistance from the balancer with only some of the threads engaged. Some try to "help" the crank bolt by hitting the balancer - but this can damage the crank bearings inside the motor since they are not designed to withstand lateral shocks.

The safe procedure calls for a bolt long enough to thread all the way into the crank with room left over for a nut which is then used to force the balancer onto the crank. This way all of the threads are engaged. This longer bolt and nuts (special tool) are often found in balancer installation kits that can be rented/borrowed from auto parts stores. An alternative is to find the bolt/nuts at a hardware store (m16 X 2.00 thread).

forrestgal
08-15-12, 12:59 PM
There is a place in Northern California that will rebuild your balancer. www.damperdoctor.com

Great service and a quick turn around.

forrestgal
08-15-12, 01:40 PM
There is a place in Northern California that will rebuild your balancer. www.damperdoctor.com

Great service and a quick turn around. The rubber on balancers do wear out and eventually need to be replaced or rebuilt. My friend had a Chevy and the balancer failed and broke his crank.

forrestgal
08-15-12, 01:59 PM
The Damper Doctor in Northern California will rebuild your OEM balancer. www.damperdoctor.com Great service and quick turnaround.