: Product reivew: The Black Ice-Olater by VMax - Intake Phenolic Spacer



Wag-O-Neer
02-23-12, 09:52 PM
Many of you have been following my other thread, chronicling my Trifecta / Bad News Racing ECM/TCM tune, on my 2010 AWD 3.6DI Wagon:

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/2008-cadillac-cts-performance-mods/251844-my-trifecta-ecm-tcm-tuning-experience.html

Well, with that review nearly complete, it's time to look forward to my next performance mod: The VMax Black Ice-Olater. This product is a 9.75mm phenolic spacer for your intake manifold. It's designed to greatly reduce the radiant heat from your cylinder head, into the intake manifold. As your heads get hot, they radiate heat directly into your manifold, causing the charge air (IATs) to rise. As IATs rise, the ECM retards timing, causing you to lose horsepower. Cooler charge air is more dense, allowing the car to make more power. I'm not teaching anything you guys don't already know.

Rev Extreme has documented ~20WHP/25WTQ, as a bolt-on solution, that requires no additional ECM tuning. I don't expect to see quite that much, since my car is a CTS4, and the DTL will be greater than that of a RWD CTS. However, the claims have piqued my interest enough for me to try the product. Since my car is tuned by Trifecta (Big thanks to Jerry @ Bad News Racing), I have the unique opportunity to be able to configure the car in a few different ways to document the gains. I plan on documenting the horsepower of my car, on an AWD dyno as follows:

1. I will tune the car back to stock and take a baseline
2. I will tune the car with my Trifecta tune (Tune only) and document the increase in HP and TQ
3. I will tune the car back to stock, and install the Black Ice-Onater
4. I will tune tune the car with Trifecta tune and Black Ice-Onater

Also, I've been asked to demo Rev Extreme's ported throttle body. All documented power gains w/ the phenolic spacer, will include the upgraded throttle body. He sells these as a set, so I believe they should be treated as one entity. Plus, I just don't care to do a TB only mod. Although the power gains of the TB are very modest ~5WHP, the low end power delivery is supposed to be much more linear than stock. Sometimes better power, doesn't always mean more power. ;)


As before, I will take some pre/mod data logs. This time, I'll be focusing squarely on IAT, and the affect it has on ECM timing retardation. As the Trifecta tune is, these are very popular in the Camaro 3.6 world. The Camaro owners are claiming that the intake manifold is cool to the touch, after driving the car. Now, I'm sure ambient air temp is still low in many places, but still.... I challenge anyone to go out to their stock CTS and try that! :D Not me....

When it's all said and done, hopefully I would have seen ~25WHP from the tune, and ~15-20WHP from the phenolic spacer, over stock, on 93 octane. If I can come away with 40-50WHP, as well as the much needed transmission tuning, for the small amount of money for the price of admission, I'll be a very happy CTS owner.


Tracy has recently started a thread on this product, but I think the community here would also like an unbiased, uninterested 3rd party review. I'll be doing the install myself, so I'll also be able to comment on the difficulty of that, as well.

It's also noteworthy that the Cadillac engine cover as well as strut tower brace should fit with the spacer. I'll find out. ;)


http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii115/RevXtreme1/PortedIMIsolatorinstall021.jpg

rics8
02-24-12, 10:51 AM
you should talk to the guy over at sts. they think I'm BS when I say you can get close to 50hp out of the 3.6llt

Wag-O-Neer
02-24-12, 11:24 AM
you should talk to the guy over at sts. they think I'm BS when I say you can get close to 50hp out of the 3.6llt

Well, people are going to think, what they want to think. I really don't know what my final gains are going to be from the Tune, TB and Spacer, but we're gonna find out. :)

So hey, anyone know that the final drive gear (1:1) is on the AWD 3.6 CTS w/Auto? I'm guessing it's 4th gear?

kingtj
02-24-12, 01:24 PM
Here's wikipedia's info on the transmission:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_6L50_transmission



Well, people are going to think, what they want to think. I really don't know what my final gains are going to be from the Tune, TB and Spacer, but we're gonna find out. :)

So hey, anyone know that the final drive gear (1:1) is on the AWD 3.6 CTS w/Auto? I'm guessing it's 4th gear?

Wag-O-Neer
02-24-12, 01:46 PM
Here's wikipedia's info on the transmission:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_6L50_transmission

Shoot, I guess I could've done that. Thanks....

So, 4th is 1.16, so that'll be it then.

Wag-O-Neer
02-24-12, 04:29 PM
FYI Tracy...

I've secured an AWD dyno, have talked to the shop owner, so I'm ready when you are. He's going to allow me to turn wrenches and swap parts, while I'm strapped to the dyno, so hopefully the install of the spacer and throttle body are straight forward. I'll be paying by the hour... :)

But after looking at your thread of the install on the Camaro forum, I feel, I'm competent enough to knock it out pretty quickly. Flashing the car back and forth to a bunch of different configurations will probably take some time though.

Anyway, I'm ready for ya....

Megathumper
02-25-12, 12:13 PM
this sounds interesting...

MTL_CTS
02-25-12, 12:35 PM
Can't wait to see the results!

Good luck

sfv41901
02-26-12, 11:47 PM
FYI Tracy...

I've secured an AWD dyno, have talked to the shop owner, so I'm ready when you are. He's going to allow me to turn wrenches and swap parts, while I'm strapped to the dyno, so hopefully the install of the spacer and throttle body are straight forward. I'll be paying by the hour... :)

But after looking at your thread of the install on the Camaro forum, I feel, I'm competent enough to knock it out pretty quickly. Flashing the car back and forth to a bunch of different configurations will probably take some time though.

Anyway, I'm ready for ya....

Is like to see how this turns out.

Wag-O-Neer
02-27-12, 10:05 AM
I'm very interested too. I'm also really interested to see what the inside of my intake manifold looks like, in relation to oil ingestion. If there's oil inside the OEM sump at the neck of the IM, you better believe I'll be asking for an RX catch can. I've had the car for 3000 miles, and I've already needed to add a 1/2 quart. Vehicle oil life counter says 54%. Looks like I'll be changing the oil every 4-5K miles in this dune buggy, for peace of mind. As with my other cars, I always send an oil sample out to Blackstone Labs, for their input on the health of the engine internals. It's such an easy and cheap thing to do, it makes no sense to me, to not do it.

It's also noteworthy that the dyno I've secured is a notoriously low reading dyno. I've seen probably 20 cars on this dyno, and they all have read low. I really don't care about the dyno number itself, but rather the difference between pre and post mod numbers. It's good that I'll be able to do testing on all of the configurations I mentioned in my original post, without even unstrapping from the dyno. Same day, same dyno, same dyno operator, and never unstrapped will leave no doubt as to what the gains are here.

Wag-O-Neer
02-27-12, 06:17 PM
Tracking number says it's here tomorrow!

If my work week allows, I'll take a day and spend it at the dyno shop qualifying this bad boy.

Wag-O-Neer
02-28-12, 08:31 PM
Lookie lookie...

I know it's just a dark iPhone pic, but that 20hp right thar.....

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t112/clickit_photo/41eb2700.jpg

sfv41901
02-28-12, 08:38 PM
Woohoo

MTL_CTS
02-29-12, 01:28 AM
What a tease :p

Get it done already so we can all order one :p lol

Wag-O-Neer
02-29-12, 09:51 AM
Couple things here....

1. The product certainly appears to be good quality. The construction is solid, and all edges, ports, and bolt holes are very smooth and defect free. It's some sort of composite material, akin to a very dense plastic, but not quite sure what it is. One side is smooth and shiny, the other is dull and textured.

2. Looks like we're going to change the dyno'ing procedure just a bit. Original plan is outlined in my first post, but now I'm thinking I'll have to probably visit the dyno shop at two different times. This is because after I drive the hour and half to the shop, and I make the initial stock and 'tune-only' pull, the engine is going to be too hot work on. Especially for something like removing an intake manifold. The car would need a lot of cool down time, even with the dyno fans, to be able to turn wrenches on it. Especially since I've been reading that the rear most manifold bolts are very tight quarters. I'm paying the dyno shop by the hour for the use of the dyno, so.....

So, what now? I'm going to take the car to the shop in it's current state. I'll flash it back to stock, make a pull or two, then flash it back to the Trifecta tune, and make another pull or two. That will give me the gains from the Trifecta tune. Then, I'll take it back home, and at the earliest convenience, I'll swap to the Vmax black Ice-olator and head back to the dyno shop. Again, I'll flash back to stock w/spacer and make a pull or two, then flash back to the Trifecta w/spacer and make a pull or two. In the end, I'll still have dyno runs in the same configuration as I originally intended to, but it won't be same day.

Another thing to mention is my pre/install IAT data logging. I went ahead and made 3 pulls and logged IAT. I was shocked to see that my intake temps were only ~5* above ambient all the way through a 3rd gear pull. However, after I turned the car off and let it sit for 10 minutes, my IAT soared to nearly 60* above ambient and took a good 2-3 miles of light throttle to bring those back down. Now, this kind of confused me, as I would've thought that during my 3rd gear pulls, IATs should have risen, right? Well, after showing the logs to Tracy, he cleared it up. Our car's IAT sensor is actually pre-intake manifold, right where the MAF is. So, no matter what, you'll always see IAT right near ambient. The reason it went up when the car was sitting was because there was no airflow passing through the air intake system, so the radiant heat from the engine compartment, soaks it. As soon as you get moving again, you see the IATs drop. So, that means even after the spacer install, my data logging of IAT, won't show anything. So now what?

Well, yesterday I went out and purchased a non-contact, infrared, laser targeting thermometer. You've seen them. I can just point and shoot anything and it will return surface temp. So now, I'll shoot the top of the intake manifold in stock form, when I get to the dyno shop, and after we've made our pulls. Then, after the spacer is installed I'll do the same. I'm hoping to be able do correlate the gain on the dyno graph, with the surface temp of the intake manifold, before and after the install. We know/hope that the surface temp of the intake manifold will be lower after the install. What we don't know, is how much power is coming from the heat reduction, and how much power is due to the increase in runner length.

So, that's where we are right now....
Anyway, I'll keep updating.

beanjapan
02-29-12, 10:45 AM
Does the product have metal inserts at all the holes? Earlier images seemed to show steel inserts at all the mounting locations, in order to to ensure you maintain a tight clamp, despite the plastic's expansion and contraction.

Wag-O-Neer
02-29-12, 10:49 AM
Does the product have metal inserts at all the holes? Earlier images seemed to show steel inserts at all the mounting locations, in order to to ensure you maintain a tight clamp, despite the plastic's expansion and contraction.

No sir, no reinforced metal grommets. The install calls for a standard gasket sealer around all ports and bolt locations. I'll be using Permatex - The Right Stuff (Black) gasket maker on one side, and the OEM metal gasket on the other side.

cracing
02-29-12, 07:29 PM
No sir, no reinforced metal grommets. The install calls for a standard gasket sealer around all ports and bolt locations. I'll be using Permatex - The Right Stuff (Black) gasket maker on one side, and the OEM metal gasket on the other side.

Awesome work it is truly a pleasure having you amongst us and your contributions have been more than appreciated

Wag-O-Neer
03-01-12, 12:07 PM
Awesome work it is truly a pleasure having you amongst us and your contributions have been more than appreciated

Thanks for the kind words. All of this is something that I would've done for my own personal consumption anyway, so it's only a few mouse clicks to share it with the community. I tend to over analyze when it comes to vehicle modding. I'm an engineer by trade, so I can't help it. :D

Shooting for maybe tomorrow, or early next week for baseline dyno numbers.

sfv41901
03-01-12, 12:29 PM
:drool:

beanjapan
03-01-12, 07:38 PM
I would suggest keeping an eye on those bolts, to ensure they stay tight as that the plastic creep doesn't cause them to loosen up with time.

sterling
03-01-12, 07:38 PM
I'm an engineer by trade, so I can't help it. :D


Haha, that made me laugh. +1 on what he said though, it's awesome to have your contributions. Thanks!

Wag-O-Neer
03-02-12, 09:11 AM
Baseline dyno today! Going to do Stock, and Trifecta tune only. Then hopefully this weekend, I'll put on the spacer, and get back out to the dyno shop again.

cracing
03-02-12, 12:18 PM
Baseline dyno today! Going to do Stock, and Trifecta tune only. Then hopefully this weekend, I'll put on the spacer, and get back out to the dyno shop again.

Awesome can't wait to see results!

mikesul
03-02-12, 02:17 PM
Baseline dyno today! Going to do Stock, and Trifecta tune only. Then hopefully this weekend, I'll put on the spacer, and get back out to the dyno shop again.
Clayton,
Looks like you will get your in before I do, waiting for the catch can to do them together. Looking forward to your usual insightful review! Can't hardly wait for more HP!!

Wag-O-Neer
03-02-12, 03:04 PM
On my way back home. Write up this evening or tomorrow....

sfv41901
03-02-12, 03:08 PM
Sweet

Wag-O-Neer
03-02-12, 03:40 PM
Just a quick little nugget, and I can hardly believe it but...

I just got home after my 1.5 hour trip back from the shop in mixed stop and go traffic. I turned the engine off, popped the hood, pulled the engine cover and touched the manifold. It was barely warm at all. By the time I pulled my laser out, it was in the upper 70s surface temp, and by after fumbling for my phone to take a snap shot, it had risen to 90*

Couldn't believe how cool to the touch the manifold was....

sfv41901
03-02-12, 08:32 PM
Do I hear a hiccup?

Wag-O-Neer
03-02-12, 09:24 PM
Do I hear a hiccup?

Nope. The above post is a good thing.

Details coming...

sfv41901
03-02-12, 10:17 PM
What I mean is had u known what u know now u would have done it all in 1 shot.

Wag-O-Neer
03-03-12, 12:45 PM
What I mean is had u known what u know now u would have done it all in 1 shot.

Ahhhh, I see.

Well, my plan that I outlined had a gigantic monkey wrench thrown at it, and I had to deviate.

Video and pics are uploading now....

sfv41901
03-03-12, 01:53 PM
:suspense:

Wag-O-Neer
03-03-12, 03:54 PM
Have some good news and some bad news.

Bad News:

As we know, my car is AWD, and must by dynoed on an AWD dyno. No problem, I'm friendly with a shop owner that has one, I secured it for 1/2 a day, and was given free reign. Well, as luck would have it, after I drive the 1.5 hours down to him, we throw the car on the dyno, and the mechanism that adjusts the rollers to match the length to the wheels, was broken. Noooooooooooooo! Well, I had to make a decision. I could either leave, and wait for him to order the part, install it, and reschedule. Or, I could go ahead an install the spacer, and come back after the dyno is fixed. That way I could flash back to stock, and get a "spacer only" baseline, then flash to the Trifecta tune, and get a "spacer +tune" number. Unfortunately, for those looking for a completely stock baseline and a stock +spacer dyno number, I won't be able to provide that, unless I rip the spacer back out.


The Good News:

The install is very straight forward, if you have basic wrenching skills. No special tools are required and I was able to do it in about an hour and half. Some of that time was spent looking for a dropped gasket into the underground dyno area, (more on that), and time was also spent cleaning out the ingested oil, found in the intake manifold. Which brings me to this...

My very next thing to do, is invest in a catch can. I'll probably go with the RX catch can, since the spacer seems to be a very good product. Here are some pictures from my 30K mile example:

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t112/clickit_photo/03d87ea8.jpg

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t112/clickit_photo/2fa060c6.jpg

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t112/clickit_photo/e75563f5.jpg

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t112/clickit_photo/ff0e5160.jpg

So, do yourself a favor a get a catch can.

Here's what the space looks like installed with the RTV setting up:

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t112/clickit_photo/02545361.jpg

And here's a video showing proof of the spacer doing it's thing:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNar5OFFdOc


So, how does it feel:

Before installation I had flashed the car back to stock, since I had planned on just doing a pre/post tune dyno. But, after it was installed, I took to the car out with a stock tune and you could certainly feel it pull hard. Honestly, it pulled harder than when it had the tune on it. So, very excited I flashed the car back to the Trifecta tune, expecting the power to feel absurd. While the car does feel stronger with the tune on top of the spacer, it wasn't double the power I was expecting. I have zero problem believing the claimed 20hp/25 tq from the spacer, and I have no problem believing the ~25hp from the tune, but it doesn't feel like 45-50hp with both. Don't get me wrong, I'm very happy with both products, and I fully recommend piggy backing these.

It's such a shame that I have no empirical data, but there was no way of knowing that the dyno was going to break. Anyway, the shop owner is going to order the necessary parts to fix the dyno, and I'll go back. I just won't have the 4 dyno numbers I originally wanted, but I will have 2.

Tracy is going to send me one of his CNC ported throttle bodies, so when that comes in, I'll go back to the dyno shop again.


Ok, so about that dropped spacer, shown in the first picture, right in center of the manifold. Somehow, someway, we dropped that spacer/gasket into the built-in dyno rollers. We looked and looked and looked, and even starting ripping the dyno apart, but alas, we couldn't find it. I placed a call to the nearest Caddy dealer and explained to him what I needed. After getting a lecture from him about ripping apart a new car, I was told that the part is special order, and not a stocked item. I had a dilemma. After giving it some thought, I'm of the belief that it's acting as a spacer, to match the height of the gasket that runs the circumference of the manifold. Since that outer gasket is the one sealing the manifold from atmosphere, I took a gamble that I could get away without it. I torqued the bolts down to 18 ft-lbs, wincing the whole time. Well, looks like I got lucky, as there appears to be no ill affect. No rough idle, and I was logging fuel trims, and watching them the whole way home under no/part/wide open throttle. All appears to be good. I have ordered the part, and since it's just under the plenum, it's a 15 minute job. Note to self: Never turn wrenches on top of a built-in dyno.


Fully recommend

----------

One more thing....

The engine cover fits. Not perfectly, as the passenger side post is a bit too short now, but it's very close.

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t112/clickit_photo/8c187ace.jpg

WRXtranceformed
03-04-12, 07:30 AM
Great writeup again man. I am a little bummed obviously with what happened with the dyno being broken...I was definitely looking forward to some stock / stock + spacer comparisons. I would consider just leaving the engine cover off, I have done it on my last two vehicles. It will keep things even cooler under there and nobody will see it anyway :)

mikesul
03-04-12, 11:14 AM
I think after you install the ported T-B you should data log and send it to BNR/Trifecta and let Vince look at it. I'm sure he will make adjustments to the tune that will improve the SOTP feel. That's what I plan to do after installing the catch can an spacer.
Sorry you couldn't get all the dyno data, but am still interested in final numbers when the dyno is fixed.

MTL_CTS
03-04-12, 11:33 PM
Just as a reference, and I don't mean to hijack, I found the thread on camaro 5 where dyno testing was done:

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=202185

It looks like the mod did in fact gain around 20 ponies and 25 ft-lb torque, but it was mostly in the mid-rpm range from 2500-5000. not that that is a bad thing at all! It's actually great and very practical for every day driving. In the high-RPM range (5000-6800) the gains were smaller, in the 2-10hp range, which nonetheless is really good for such a small mod. I have to admit I was a bit skeptical when I first read the claims but I guess this mod really does work.

Still very much looking forward to hearing about your dyno tests Wagoneer!

Wag-O-Neer
03-05-12, 10:20 AM
No hijack at all! The more info, the better. I also saw that thread over there, but didn't know the rules about linking to other forums. I guess it's not a competing forum, so....

But yes, the peak number doesn't really matter to me, since I'm not looking for a 1/4 mile car, or a dyno queen. These cars aren't super fast and I already have a real fast one, when I want to do that. But, since most of the gains are under the curve, that means daily drivability is mo-better. :D

Wag-O-Neer
03-07-12, 10:38 AM
Guys, I normally don't buy into the theory that these modern ECMs need to adapt when new hardware modifications are made, like the Vmax Black Ice-Olalater. When we do pre/post dyno runs showing increase at the wheels, the ECM hasn't adapted to anything, right? However, I may need to reconsider my position. After now having put roughly 300 miles on the car, since the installation of this device, the car has without question, become different. It pulls stronger above 3K RPM than it initially did right after install. There still seems to be room for improvement from 1K-3K, and I believe that's where the CNC ported throttle body will shine, but I'm of the belief that I've added every bit of 40WHP with the tune and this spacer. Of course, once we get the dyno sorted out, and the throttle body on the car, we'll have concrete numbers.

For anyone that's on the fence, let me be the one to push you over, to the land of cool intake manifold freedom. :)

00 ss
03-07-12, 11:51 AM
Have you been able to keep you foot out of it long enough to see how "normal' driving fuel consumption has been effected? Mods that increase power by increasing combustion efficiency can sometimes improve fuel comsumption under normal driving. I'd be very curious to know if this is the case with this product.

Thanks,

Wag-O-Neer
03-07-12, 04:00 PM
Have you been able to keep you foot out of it long enough to see how "normal' driving fuel consumption has been effected? Mods that increase power by increasing combustion efficiency can sometimes improve fuel comsumption under normal driving. I'd be very curious to know if this is the case with this product.

Thanks,

It's my wife's car, so I don't really do an awful lot of commuting in it. I'll take to run short errands, and I've been whomping on it pretty good, just to test the new mods. So no, we haven't really noticed any increase in MPG. That's not something I normally worry about too much, when I'm modding for more power.

MTL_CTS
03-07-12, 06:11 PM
No hijack at all! The more info, the better. I also saw that thread over there, but didn't know the rules about linking to other forums. I guess it's not a competing forum, so....

But yes, the peak number doesn't really matter to me, since I'm not looking for a 1/4 mile car, or a dyno queen. These cars aren't super fast and I already have a real fast one, when I want to do that. But, since most of the gains are under the curve, that means daily drivability is mo-better. :D


If you think about it, it makes sense though. At low-mid RPM the air being sucked into the motor travels much slower so it has more "time" to be "heated up" by the hot intake manifold... At high RPM the air is travelling very fast so it's really the temperature of the ambient air itself that has an effect on power output rather than the temperature of the motor/manifold. That's the way I look at it anyway :p

Wag-O-Neer
03-21-12, 11:17 AM
Just a little housekeeping here....


It was glossed over a bit, and nobody really seemed to question it, but I'm still running without the spacer, shown in this pic:

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t112/clickit_photo/03d87ea8.jpg


I've had ZERO problems, but I wanted to replace it, so off to the dealer I went. GM will NOT sell you just that gasket/spacer. You must buy a gasket kit that also includes the plastic gasket that sits under the manifold, and the rubber gasket that runs along the circumference of the plenum. So, it's a 3 gasket set for about $70.00. Lesson learned to never turn wrenches above a built-in dyno.

So, about that dyno I used. I've talked to the owner a few times, and he's still having issues with the roller length adjustment. The replacement parts didn't fix the problem, so now they're looking at replacing the motherboard. At this point, I'll probably search out another AWD dyno. There's not too many in my area, but I'll find one that can accommodate me.

I've received the Rx CNC ported throttle body and catch can, so they're next.....

cracing
04-01-12, 03:32 PM
Wag-o-neer any word yet on dyno? How's the spacer been treating you? Very interested in spacer and tune you have done would love an update.

Wag-O-Neer
04-03-12, 11:16 AM
Securing an AWD dyno in my area has been next to impossible. I did get information for another shop somewhat near me, that does tuning for Subaru's, so I may get lucky there....

cracing
04-03-12, 02:00 PM
Awesome thank you for the update keep us informed you have done an awesome review so far!

Michael_atDell
04-04-12, 12:20 PM
I installed mine last night; my IM was much much worse... Can't wait for FedEx with my RX Catch Can!

89354
89355

Wag-O-Neer
04-04-12, 12:44 PM
People who think that they don't need a catch can, are going to be in for a huge upper intake mess down the road.

Imagine what your valves look like.

Michael_atDell
04-04-12, 01:05 PM
People who think that they don't need a catch can, are going to be in for a huge upper intake mess down the road.

Imagine what your valves look like.

Yeah, I'm considering pulling the heads off...

sfv41901
04-04-12, 01:19 PM
That sir, isn't a small job

sfv41901
04-04-12, 03:48 PM
I installed mine last night; my IM was much much worse... Can't wait for FedEx with my RX Catch Can!

<img src="http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=89354"/>
<img src="http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=89355"/>

How many miles on ur CTS?

Michael_atDell
04-04-12, 04:51 PM
53,900

sfv41901
04-04-12, 04:58 PM
I just hit 50k......guess were in the same boat :banghead:

07sts07
07-22-12, 12:57 PM
any updates on the dyno? I'm looking into buying the whole package i.e. the throttle body, iceolater, trifecta tune, and a d3 intake. I just want to make sure all that money spent is going to be worth it.

HurstGN
07-26-12, 12:55 PM
And here is more data directly from GM on the subject:


2011 Cadillac CTS | CTS VIN D Service Manual | Document ID: 2863222
#PIP5029: Engine Misfires Due To Major Carbon Deposits On The Intake And/Or Exhaust Valves - (May 29, 2012)
Subject: Engine Misfires Due To Major Carbon Deposits On The Intake And/Or Exhaust Valves

Models: 2008 - 2012 Cadillac CTS, STS
With any of the Following Direct Injected Gasoline Engines:
3.6L (RPO LFX or LLT)

The following diagnosis might be helpful if the vehicle exhibits the symptom(s) described in this PI.
Condition/Concern:

Some customers may complain of a MIL and engine misfire. In some cases, the misfire may be more apparent on a cold start, may count on a single cylinder or several cylinders, and may or may not be felt by the driver. Upon inspection, the technician will find one or more misfire codes (DTC P0300-P0306) stored in the ECM and SI diagnosis may or may not isolate the cause of the misfire depending on whether the intake/exhaust valves are sticking at the time of the diagnosis.

This may be the result of major carbon build up on the intake and/or exhaust valves as shown below so the misfires should not have appeared until the engine has accumulated around 5,000 miles or more.


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OK, so GM is recommending this service for the direct injected engines. I'm looking at this and thinking about my 3.6 DI. If I have carbon deposits on the valves, this can't be from my fuel since the fuel is injected after the valves. So this must be from the oil in the intake, correct? If that's the case, then, yes, the catch can should help alleviate this problem. I can see the logic so far. But how would Top Tier gas help anything? I'm thinking Top Tier gas would only affect the combustion chamber, and possible carbon hot spots in the combustion chamber. If there are hot spots, I'd see a detonation (pre-ignition) knock, correct?

Basically I'm trying to see the logic to the bulletin pointing at the gas as the problem when it looks obvious that problem is the oil in the intake.

tinman
07-27-12, 01:27 PM
Wow!

HurstGN
07-29-12, 11:50 AM
If I remove the upper part of the intake to perform an inspection such as this, do I need to buy a new gasket? Or is this a reusable gasket?

Michael_atDell
07-29-12, 12:02 PM
If I remove the upper part of the intake to perform an inspection such as this, do I need to buy a new gasket? Or is this a reusable gasket?

It's reusable.

HurstGN
07-29-12, 01:14 PM
It's reusable.
Thank You. I've got to dig in there and see just how much carbon gunk I got on the valves.

SC2150
07-30-12, 09:21 AM
You can feed a boroscope right down one of the runners and see the valves.

:thumbsup:

WRXtranceformed
07-30-12, 10:21 AM
You can feed a boroscope right down one of the runners and see the valves.

:thumbsup:

Tracy, what is a good way to remove deposits like that once they have built up? Seafoam? If so, would it have to be sucked into the intake through the "sipping" method?

SC2150
07-30-12, 05:09 PM
Yes. Seafoam or BG has a good product, and the "sip" method so you dont introduce to much at a time. We are removing heads to manually clean these.

futurectsbuyer
07-30-12, 06:35 PM
Bottom Line on the Ice O Lator. Does it work? Review from anyone? I'm in 08 direct inject. Want to buy this if it works.

SC2150
07-30-12, 08:08 PM
Several thousand sold and installed and nothing but praise.....not a single return and we offer 100% refund if not as advertised.

Here is a tuner shop in Utah that did before and after testing of the CNC throttle body and the Iceolator:

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=171395&highlight=VMax+JDP

And the dyno graphs:

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=188053&page=2

Mike B
07-31-12, 03:14 PM
Which BG product do you mean?
I found the BG products here in Sweden but I havn't been able to find the Seafoam.

SC2150
07-31-12, 03:27 PM
BG upper induction cleaning. Probably the best of the ones we use. :thumbsup:

RippyPartsDept
07-31-12, 04:21 PM
is that the 44K can?

Mike B
07-31-12, 05:03 PM
I think that it is no 211.
I also found an aerosol bottle from Wynns, any thoughts about that one?

RippyPartsDept
07-31-12, 05:15 PM
oh yeah, the 44K can is the fuel additive (like techron or something)

CTSScott
06-11-14, 09:35 PM
So I got my spacer today and I have a question for those that have already installed it. If the stock orange gasket goes under the spacer, it has 2 domes on it that fit into spots on the bottom of the intake. How does the spacer fit on top of that gasket with those domes in it? It wont sit flat

HolyJerex212
06-16-14, 05:27 PM
So I got my spacer today and I have a question for those that have already installed it. If the stock orange gasket goes under the spacer, it has 2 domes on it that fit into spots on the bottom of the intake. How does the spacer fit on top of that gasket with those domes in it? It wont sit flat

You have to snip them off so everything is flush.

CTSScott
06-16-14, 09:22 PM
You have to snip them off so everything is flush.

Already done. Definitely more power on the butt dyno!!

SC2150
08-14-14, 12:37 PM
Excellent mod. One of the best for the $ hands down.

:thumbsup:

ajazolino
09-11-14, 11:26 AM
So my engine blew and cadillac just came back saying they aren't paying for any of the repair because I had the Intake spacer installed. Fml

tinman
09-11-14, 11:42 AM
Roar of ze bull. Any excuse to not pay. What was the cause of the failure? Certainly not an intake related cause.

wcthunder
09-11-14, 02:47 PM
9/11...smh. sorry bout ur lost

CrashGuy2016
09-13-14, 09:52 AM
Let us know what happens. I have one, and a catch can waiting for a few minutes of spare time to install them.

CrashGuy2016
11-18-14, 07:19 PM
Any update on this denial?

SC2150
11-28-14, 10:31 AM
Take them to court...against Federal law to deny warranty unless a product can be proven to directly cause the failure, which is impossible with this spacer. I personally had Ford dealer void my warranty for having a K&N CAI several years ago on my new F350 6.0 diesel....brought it to another dealer and they honored it.

We have the CNC ported throttle bodies and iceolators in stock, NO wait time!

www.RevXtreme.com

941-721-1826