: Product reivew: The Black Ice-Olater by VMax - Intake Phenolic Spacer



Wag-O-Neer
02-23-12, 09:52 PM
Many of you have been following my other thread, chronicling my Trifecta / Bad News Racing ECM/TCM tune, on my 2010 AWD 3.6DI Wagon:

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/2008-cadillac-cts-performance-mods/251844-my-trifecta-ecm-tcm-tuning-experience.html

Well, with that review nearly complete, it's time to look forward to my next performance mod: The VMax Black Ice-Olater. This product is a 9.75mm phenolic spacer for your intake manifold. It's designed to greatly reduce the radiant heat from your cylinder head, into the intake manifold. As your heads get hot, they radiate heat directly into your manifold, causing the charge air (IATs) to rise. As IATs rise, the ECM retards timing, causing you to lose horsepower. Cooler charge air is more dense, allowing the car to make more power. I'm not teaching anything you guys don't already know.

Rev Extreme has documented ~20WHP/25WTQ, as a bolt-on solution, that requires no additional ECM tuning. I don't expect to see quite that much, since my car is a CTS4, and the DTL will be greater than that of a RWD CTS. However, the claims have piqued my interest enough for me to try the product. Since my car is tuned by Trifecta (Big thanks to Jerry @ Bad News Racing), I have the unique opportunity to be able to configure the car in a few different ways to document the gains. I plan on documenting the horsepower of my car, on an AWD dyno as follows:

1. I will tune the car back to stock and take a baseline
2. I will tune the car with my Trifecta tune (Tune only) and document the increase in HP and TQ
3. I will tune the car back to stock, and install the Black Ice-Onater
4. I will tune tune the car with Trifecta tune and Black Ice-Onater

Also, I've been asked to demo Rev Extreme's ported throttle body. All documented power gains w/ the phenolic spacer, will include the upgraded throttle body. He sells these as a set, so I believe they should be treated as one entity. Plus, I just don't care to do a TB only mod. Although the power gains of the TB are very modest ~5WHP, the low end power delivery is supposed to be much more linear than stock. Sometimes better power, doesn't always mean more power. ;)


As before, I will take some pre/mod data logs. This time, I'll be focusing squarely on IAT, and the affect it has on ECM timing retardation. As the Trifecta tune is, these are very popular in the Camaro 3.6 world. The Camaro owners are claiming that the intake manifold is cool to the touch, after driving the car. Now, I'm sure ambient air temp is still low in many places, but still.... I challenge anyone to go out to their stock CTS and try that! :D Not me....

When it's all said and done, hopefully I would have seen ~25WHP from the tune, and ~15-20WHP from the phenolic spacer, over stock, on 93 octane. If I can come away with 40-50WHP, as well as the much needed transmission tuning, for the small amount of money for the price of admission, I'll be a very happy CTS owner.


Tracy has recently started a thread on this product, but I think the community here would also like an unbiased, uninterested 3rd party review. I'll be doing the install myself, so I'll also be able to comment on the difficulty of that, as well.

It's also noteworthy that the Cadillac engine cover as well as strut tower brace should fit with the spacer. I'll find out. ;)


http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii115/RevXtreme1/PortedIMIsolatorinstall021.jpg

rics8
02-24-12, 10:51 AM
you should talk to the guy over at sts. they think I'm BS when I say you can get close to 50hp out of the 3.6llt

Wag-O-Neer
02-24-12, 11:24 AM
you should talk to the guy over at sts. they think I'm BS when I say you can get close to 50hp out of the 3.6llt

Well, people are going to think, what they want to think. I really don't know what my final gains are going to be from the Tune, TB and Spacer, but we're gonna find out. :)

So hey, anyone know that the final drive gear (1:1) is on the AWD 3.6 CTS w/Auto? I'm guessing it's 4th gear?

kingtj
02-24-12, 01:24 PM
Here's wikipedia's info on the transmission:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_6L50_transmission



Well, people are going to think, what they want to think. I really don't know what my final gains are going to be from the Tune, TB and Spacer, but we're gonna find out. :)

So hey, anyone know that the final drive gear (1:1) is on the AWD 3.6 CTS w/Auto? I'm guessing it's 4th gear?

Wag-O-Neer
02-24-12, 01:46 PM
Here's wikipedia's info on the transmission:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_6L50_transmission

Shoot, I guess I could've done that. Thanks....

So, 4th is 1.16, so that'll be it then.

Wag-O-Neer
02-24-12, 04:29 PM
FYI Tracy...

I've secured an AWD dyno, have talked to the shop owner, so I'm ready when you are. He's going to allow me to turn wrenches and swap parts, while I'm strapped to the dyno, so hopefully the install of the spacer and throttle body are straight forward. I'll be paying by the hour... :)

But after looking at your thread of the install on the Camaro forum, I feel, I'm competent enough to knock it out pretty quickly. Flashing the car back and forth to a bunch of different configurations will probably take some time though.

Anyway, I'm ready for ya....

Megathumper
02-25-12, 12:13 PM
this sounds interesting...

MTL_CTS
02-25-12, 12:35 PM
Can't wait to see the results!

Good luck

sfv41901
02-26-12, 11:47 PM
FYI Tracy...

I've secured an AWD dyno, have talked to the shop owner, so I'm ready when you are. He's going to allow me to turn wrenches and swap parts, while I'm strapped to the dyno, so hopefully the install of the spacer and throttle body are straight forward. I'll be paying by the hour... :)

But after looking at your thread of the install on the Camaro forum, I feel, I'm competent enough to knock it out pretty quickly. Flashing the car back and forth to a bunch of different configurations will probably take some time though.

Anyway, I'm ready for ya....

Is like to see how this turns out.

Wag-O-Neer
02-27-12, 10:05 AM
I'm very interested too. I'm also really interested to see what the inside of my intake manifold looks like, in relation to oil ingestion. If there's oil inside the OEM sump at the neck of the IM, you better believe I'll be asking for an RX catch can. I've had the car for 3000 miles, and I've already needed to add a 1/2 quart. Vehicle oil life counter says 54%. Looks like I'll be changing the oil every 4-5K miles in this dune buggy, for peace of mind. As with my other cars, I always send an oil sample out to Blackstone Labs, for their input on the health of the engine internals. It's such an easy and cheap thing to do, it makes no sense to me, to not do it.

It's also noteworthy that the dyno I've secured is a notoriously low reading dyno. I've seen probably 20 cars on this dyno, and they all have read low. I really don't care about the dyno number itself, but rather the difference between pre and post mod numbers. It's good that I'll be able to do testing on all of the configurations I mentioned in my original post, without even unstrapping from the dyno. Same day, same dyno, same dyno operator, and never unstrapped will leave no doubt as to what the gains are here.

Wag-O-Neer
02-27-12, 06:17 PM
Tracking number says it's here tomorrow!

If my work week allows, I'll take a day and spend it at the dyno shop qualifying this bad boy.

Wag-O-Neer
02-28-12, 08:31 PM
Lookie lookie...

I know it's just a dark iPhone pic, but that 20hp right thar.....

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t112/clickit_photo/41eb2700.jpg

sfv41901
02-28-12, 08:38 PM
Woohoo

MTL_CTS
02-29-12, 01:28 AM
What a tease :p

Get it done already so we can all order one :p lol

Wag-O-Neer
02-29-12, 09:51 AM
Couple things here....

1. The product certainly appears to be good quality. The construction is solid, and all edges, ports, and bolt holes are very smooth and defect free. It's some sort of composite material, akin to a very dense plastic, but not quite sure what it is. One side is smooth and shiny, the other is dull and textured.

2. Looks like we're going to change the dyno'ing procedure just a bit. Original plan is outlined in my first post, but now I'm thinking I'll have to probably visit the dyno shop at two different times. This is because after I drive the hour and half to the shop, and I make the initial stock and 'tune-only' pull, the engine is going to be too hot work on. Especially for something like removing an intake manifold. The car would need a lot of cool down time, even with the dyno fans, to be able to turn wrenches on it. Especially since I've been reading that the rear most manifold bolts are very tight quarters. I'm paying the dyno shop by the hour for the use of the dyno, so.....

So, what now? I'm going to take the car to the shop in it's current state. I'll flash it back to stock, make a pull or two, then flash it back to the Trifecta tune, and make another pull or two. That will give me the gains from the Trifecta tune. Then, I'll take it back home, and at the earliest convenience, I'll swap to the Vmax black Ice-olator and head back to the dyno shop. Again, I'll flash back to stock w/spacer and make a pull or two, then flash back to the Trifecta w/spacer and make a pull or two. In the end, I'll still have dyno runs in the same configuration as I originally intended to, but it won't be same day.

Another thing to mention is my pre/install IAT data logging. I went ahead and made 3 pulls and logged IAT. I was shocked to see that my intake temps were only ~5* above ambient all the way through a 3rd gear pull. However, after I turned the car off and let it sit for 10 minutes, my IAT soared to nearly 60* above ambient and took a good 2-3 miles of light throttle to bring those back down. Now, this kind of confused me, as I would've thought that during my 3rd gear pulls, IATs should have risen, right? Well, after showing the logs to Tracy, he cleared it up. Our car's IAT sensor is actually pre-intake manifold, right where the MAF is. So, no matter what, you'll always see IAT right near ambient. The reason it went up when the car was sitting was because there was no airflow passing through the air intake system, so the radiant heat from the engine compartment, soaks it. As soon as you get moving again, you see the IATs drop. So, that means even after the spacer install, my data logging of IAT, won't show anything. So now what?

Well, yesterday I went out and purchased a non-contact, infrared, laser targeting thermometer. You've seen them. I can just point and shoot anything and it will return surface temp. So now, I'll shoot the top of the intake manifold in stock form, when I get to the dyno shop, and after we've made our pulls. Then, after the spacer is installed I'll do the same. I'm hoping to be able do correlate the gain on the dyno graph, with the surface temp of the intake manifold, before and after the install. We know/hope that the surface temp of the intake manifold will be lower after the install. What we don't know, is how much power is coming from the heat reduction, and how much power is due to the increase in runner length.

So, that's where we are right now....
Anyway, I'll keep updating.

beanjapan
02-29-12, 10:45 AM
Does the product have metal inserts at all the holes? Earlier images seemed to show steel inserts at all the mounting locations, in order to to ensure you maintain a tight clamp, despite the plastic's expansion and contraction.

Wag-O-Neer
02-29-12, 10:49 AM
Does the product have metal inserts at all the holes? Earlier images seemed to show steel inserts at all the mounting locations, in order to to ensure you maintain a tight clamp, despite the plastic's expansion and contraction.

No sir, no reinforced metal grommets. The install calls for a standard gasket sealer around all ports and bolt locations. I'll be using Permatex - The Right Stuff (Black) gasket maker on one side, and the OEM metal gasket on the other side.

cracing
02-29-12, 07:29 PM
No sir, no reinforced metal grommets. The install calls for a standard gasket sealer around all ports and bolt locations. I'll be using Permatex - The Right Stuff (Black) gasket maker on one side, and the OEM metal gasket on the other side.

Awesome work it is truly a pleasure having you amongst us and your contributions have been more than appreciated

Wag-O-Neer
03-01-12, 12:07 PM
Awesome work it is truly a pleasure having you amongst us and your contributions have been more than appreciated

Thanks for the kind words. All of this is something that I would've done for my own personal consumption anyway, so it's only a few mouse clicks to share it with the community. I tend to over analyze when it comes to vehicle modding. I'm an engineer by trade, so I can't help it. :D

Shooting for maybe tomorrow, or early next week for baseline dyno numbers.

sfv41901
03-01-12, 12:29 PM
:drool:

beanjapan
03-01-12, 07:38 PM
I would suggest keeping an eye on those bolts, to ensure they stay tight as that the plastic creep doesn't cause them to loosen up with time.

sterling
03-01-12, 07:38 PM
I'm an engineer by trade, so I can't help it. :D


Haha, that made me laugh. +1 on what he said though, it's awesome to have your contributions. Thanks!

Wag-O-Neer
03-02-12, 09:11 AM
Baseline dyno today! Going to do Stock, and Trifecta tune only. Then hopefully this weekend, I'll put on the spacer, and get back out to the dyno shop again.

cracing
03-02-12, 12:18 PM
Baseline dyno today! Going to do Stock, and Trifecta tune only. Then hopefully this weekend, I'll put on the spacer, and get back out to the dyno shop again.

Awesome can't wait to see results!

mikesul
03-02-12, 02:17 PM
Baseline dyno today! Going to do Stock, and Trifecta tune only. Then hopefully this weekend, I'll put on the spacer, and get back out to the dyno shop again.
Clayton,
Looks like you will get your in before I do, waiting for the catch can to do them together. Looking forward to your usual insightful review! Can't hardly wait for more HP!!

Wag-O-Neer
03-02-12, 03:04 PM
On my way back home. Write up this evening or tomorrow....

sfv41901
03-02-12, 03:08 PM
Sweet

Wag-O-Neer
03-02-12, 03:40 PM
Just a quick little nugget, and I can hardly believe it but...

I just got home after my 1.5 hour trip back from the shop in mixed stop and go traffic. I turned the engine off, popped the hood, pulled the engine cover and touched the manifold. It was barely warm at all. By the time I pulled my laser out, it was in the upper 70s surface temp, and by after fumbling for my phone to take a snap shot, it had risen to 90*

Couldn't believe how cool to the touch the manifold was....

sfv41901
03-02-12, 08:32 PM
Do I hear a hiccup?

Wag-O-Neer
03-02-12, 09:24 PM
Do I hear a hiccup?

Nope. The above post is a good thing.

Details coming...

sfv41901
03-02-12, 10:17 PM
What I mean is had u known what u know now u would have done it all in 1 shot.

Wag-O-Neer
03-03-12, 12:45 PM
What I mean is had u known what u know now u would have done it all in 1 shot.

Ahhhh, I see.

Well, my plan that I outlined had a gigantic monkey wrench thrown at it, and I had to deviate.

Video and pics are uploading now....

sfv41901
03-03-12, 01:53 PM
:suspense:

Wag-O-Neer
03-03-12, 03:54 PM
Have some good news and some bad news.

Bad News:

As we know, my car is AWD, and must by dynoed on an AWD dyno. No problem, I'm friendly with a shop owner that has one, I secured it for 1/2 a day, and was given free reign. Well, as luck would have it, after I drive the 1.5 hours down to him, we throw the car on the dyno, and the mechanism that adjusts the rollers to match the length to the wheels, was broken. Noooooooooooooo! Well, I had to make a decision. I could either leave, and wait for him to order the part, install it, and reschedule. Or, I could go ahead an install the spacer, and come back after the dyno is fixed. That way I could flash back to stock, and get a "spacer only" baseline, then flash to the Trifecta tune, and get a "spacer +tune" number. Unfortunately, for those looking for a completely stock baseline and a stock +spacer dyno number, I won't be able to provide that, unless I rip the spacer back out.


The Good News:

The install is very straight forward, if you have basic wrenching skills. No special tools are required and I was able to do it in about an hour and half. Some of that time was spent looking for a dropped gasket into the underground dyno area, (more on that), and time was also spent cleaning out the ingested oil, found in the intake manifold. Which brings me to this...

My very next thing to do, is invest in a catch can. I'll probably go with the RX catch can, since the spacer seems to be a very good product. Here are some pictures from my 30K mile example:

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t112/clickit_photo/03d87ea8.jpg

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t112/clickit_photo/2fa060c6.jpg

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t112/clickit_photo/e75563f5.jpg

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t112/clickit_photo/ff0e5160.jpg

So, do yourself a favor a get a catch can.

Here's what the space looks like installed with the RTV setting up:

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t112/clickit_photo/02545361.jpg

And here's a video showing proof of the spacer doing it's thing:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNar5OFFdOc


So, how does it feel:

Before installation I had flashed the car back to stock, since I had planned on just doing a pre/post tune dyno. But, after it was installed, I took to the car out with a stock tune and you could certainly feel it pull hard. Honestly, it pulled harder than when it had the tune on it. So, very excited I flashed the car back to the Trifecta tune, expecting the power to feel absurd. While the car does feel stronger with the tune on top of the spacer, it wasn't double the power I was expecting. I have zero problem believing the claimed 20hp/25 tq from the spacer, and I have no problem believing the ~25hp from the tune, but it doesn't feel like 45-50hp with both. Don't get me wrong, I'm very happy with both products, and I fully recommend piggy backing these.

It's such a shame that I have no empirical data, but there was no way of knowing that the dyno was going to break. Anyway, the shop owner is going to order the necessary parts to fix the dyno, and I'll go back. I just won't have the 4 dyno numbers I originally wanted, but I will have 2.

Tracy is going to send me one of his CNC ported throttle bodies, so when that comes in, I'll go back to the dyno shop again.


Ok, so about that dropped spacer, shown in the first picture, right in center of the manifold. Somehow, someway, we dropped that spacer/gasket into the built-in dyno rollers. We looked and looked and looked, and even starting ripping the dyno apart, but alas, we couldn't find it. I placed a call to the nearest Caddy dealer and explained to him what I needed. After getting a lecture from him about ripping apart a new car, I was told that the part is special order, and not a stocked item. I had a dilemma. After giving it some thought, I'm of the belief that it's acting as a spacer, to match the height of the gasket that runs the circumference of the manifold. Since that outer gasket is the one sealing the manifold from atmosphere, I took a gamble that I could get away without it. I torqued the bolts down to 18 ft-lbs, wincing the whole time. Well, looks like I got lucky, as there appears to be no ill affect. No rough idle, and I was logging fuel trims, and watching them the whole way home under no/part/wide open throttle. All appears to be good. I have ordered the part, and since it's just under the plenum, it's a 15 minute job. Note to self: Never turn wrenches on top of a built-in dyno.


Fully recommend

----------

One more thing....

The engine cover fits. Not perfectly, as the passenger side post is a bit too short now, but it's very close.

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t112/clickit_photo/8c187ace.jpg

WRXtranceformed
03-04-12, 07:30 AM
Great writeup again man. I am a little bummed obviously with what happened with the dyno being broken...I was definitely looking forward to some stock / stock + spacer comparisons. I would consider just leaving the engine cover off, I have done it on my last two vehicles. It will keep things even cooler under there and nobody will see it anyway :)

mikesul
03-04-12, 11:14 AM
I think after you install the ported T-B you should data log and send it to BNR/Trifecta and let Vince look at it. I'm sure he will make adjustments to the tune that will improve the SOTP feel. That's what I plan to do after installing the catch can an spacer.
Sorry you couldn't get all the dyno data, but am still interested in final numbers when the dyno is fixed.

MTL_CTS
03-04-12, 11:33 PM
Just as a reference, and I don't mean to hijack, I found the thread on camaro 5 where dyno testing was done:

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=202185

It looks like the mod did in fact gain around 20 ponies and 25 ft-lb torque, but it was mostly in the mid-rpm range from 2500-5000. not that that is a bad thing at all! It's actually great and very practical for every day driving. In the high-RPM range (5000-6800) the gains were smaller, in the 2-10hp range, which nonetheless is really good for such a small mod. I have to admit I was a bit skeptical when I first read the claims but I guess this mod really does work.

Still very much looking forward to hearing about your dyno tests Wagoneer!

Wag-O-Neer
03-05-12, 10:20 AM
No hijack at all! The more info, the better. I also saw that thread over there, but didn't know the rules about linking to other forums. I guess it's not a competing forum, so....

But yes, the peak number doesn't really matter to me, since I'm not looking for a 1/4 mile car, or a dyno queen. These cars aren't super fast and I already have a real fast one, when I want to do that. But, since most of the gains are under the curve, that means daily drivability is mo-better. :D

Wag-O-Neer
03-07-12, 10:38 AM
Guys, I normally don't buy into the theory that these modern ECMs need to adapt when new hardware modifications are made, like the Vmax Black Ice-Olalater. When we do pre/post dyno runs showing increase at the wheels, the ECM hasn't adapted to anything, right? However, I may need to reconsider my position. After now having put roughly 300 miles on the car, since the installation of this device, the car has without question, become different. It pulls stronger above 3K RPM than it initially did right after install. There still seems to be room for improvement from 1K-3K, and I believe that's where the CNC ported throttle body will shine, but I'm of the belief that I've added every bit of 40WHP with the tune and this spacer. Of course, once we get the dyno sorted out, and the throttle body on the car, we'll have concrete numbers.

For anyone that's on the fence, let me be the one to push you over, to the land of cool intake manifold freedom. :)

00 ss
03-07-12, 11:51 AM
Have you been able to keep you foot out of it long enough to see how "normal' driving fuel consumption has been effected? Mods that increase power by increasing combustion efficiency can sometimes improve fuel comsumption under normal driving. I'd be very curious to know if this is the case with this product.

Thanks,

Wag-O-Neer
03-07-12, 04:00 PM
Have you been able to keep you foot out of it long enough to see how "normal' driving fuel consumption has been effected? Mods that increase power by increasing combustion efficiency can sometimes improve fuel comsumption under normal driving. I'd be very curious to know if this is the case with this product.

Thanks,

It's my wife's car, so I don't really do an awful lot of commuting in it. I'll take to run short errands, and I've been whomping on it pretty good, just to test the new mods. So no, we haven't really noticed any increase in MPG. That's not something I normally worry about too much, when I'm modding for more power.

MTL_CTS
03-07-12, 06:11 PM
No hijack at all! The more info, the better. I also saw that thread over there, but didn't know the rules about linking to other forums. I guess it's not a competing forum, so....

But yes, the peak number doesn't really matter to me, since I'm not looking for a 1/4 mile car, or a dyno queen. These cars aren't super fast and I already have a real fast one, when I want to do that. But, since most of the gains are under the curve, that means daily drivability is mo-better. :D


If you think about it, it makes sense though. At low-mid RPM the air being sucked into the motor travels much slower so it has more "time" to be "heated up" by the hot intake manifold... At high RPM the air is travelling very fast so it's really the temperature of the ambient air itself that has an effect on power output rather than the temperature of the motor/manifold. That's the way I look at it anyway :p

Wag-O-Neer
03-21-12, 11:17 AM
Just a little housekeeping here....


It was glossed over a bit, and nobody really seemed to question it, but I'm still running without the spacer, shown in this pic:

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t112/clickit_photo/03d87ea8.jpg


I've had ZERO problems, but I wanted to replace it, so off to the dealer I went. GM will NOT sell you just that gasket/spacer. You must buy a gasket kit that also includes the plastic gasket that sits under the manifold, and the rubber gasket that runs along the circumference of the plenum. So, it's a 3 gasket set for about $70.00. Lesson learned to never turn wrenches above a built-in dyno.

So, about that dyno I used. I've talked to the owner a few times, and he's still having issues with the roller length adjustment. The replacement parts didn't fix the problem, so now they're looking at replacing the motherboard. At this point, I'll probably search out another AWD dyno. There's not too many in my area, but I'll find one that can accommodate me.

I've received the Rx CNC ported throttle body and catch can, so they're next.....

cracing
04-01-12, 03:32 PM
Wag-o-neer any word yet on dyno? How's the spacer been treating you? Very interested in spacer and tune you have done would love an update.

Wag-O-Neer
04-03-12, 11:16 AM
Securing an AWD dyno in my area has been next to impossible. I did get information for another shop somewhat near me, that does tuning for Subaru's, so I may get lucky there....

cracing
04-03-12, 02:00 PM
Awesome thank you for the update keep us informed you have done an awesome review so far!

Michael_atDell
04-04-12, 12:20 PM
I installed mine last night; my IM was much much worse... Can't wait for FedEx with my RX Catch Can!

89354
89355

Wag-O-Neer
04-04-12, 12:44 PM
People who think that they don't need a catch can, are going to be in for a huge upper intake mess down the road.

Imagine what your valves look like.

Michael_atDell
04-04-12, 01:05 PM
People who think that they don't need a catch can, are going to be in for a huge upper intake mess down the road.

Imagine what your valves look like.

Yeah, I'm considering pulling the heads off...

sfv41901
04-04-12, 01:19 PM
That sir, isn't a small job

sfv41901
04-04-12, 03:48 PM
I installed mine last night; my IM was much much worse... Can't wait for FedEx with my RX Catch Can!

<img src="http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=89354"/>
<img src="http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=89355"/>

How many miles on ur CTS?

Michael_atDell
04-04-12, 04:51 PM
53,900

sfv41901
04-04-12, 04:58 PM
I just hit 50k......guess were in the same boat :banghead:

ktr-sb
07-18-12, 04:08 PM
People who think that they don't need a catch can, are going to be in for a huge upper intake mess down the road.

Imagine what your valves look like.

Probably they look fine, if you have been using top tier fuel. GM positioned and timed the injectors and valves to reduce deposits to an insignificant level.

SC2150
07-20-12, 10:42 PM
And another false statement by the #1 misinformation spreader...determined to confuse those looking for acurate information.

07sts07
07-22-12, 12:57 PM
any updates on the dyno? I'm looking into buying the whole package i.e. the throttle body, iceolater, trifecta tune, and a d3 intake. I just want to make sure all that money spent is going to be worth it.

cawengr
07-22-12, 05:07 PM
SC2150

I think you are really taking a cheap shot at ktr-sb

"And another false statement by the #1 misinformation spreader...determined to confuse those looking for acurate information. "

I have been following both your posts, and after your post about ktr-sb I have lost all respect for your posts.

I have read both and I agree with you both as to the issues related to oil ingestion with the 3.6 motor. I owned a 2005 that used a quart every 1500 miles and I think either drilling the PCV orifice or the catch can would have solved the issue.

Every motor is slightly different and all solutions are not the one and only solution. This forum lets you see what is working and what is not. It is still up to the individual and his situation to see what he wants to try to eliviate his problem.

When you start personal attacks because it might cut into your sales it does not speak highly of your integrity.

SC2150
07-22-12, 05:41 PM
cawenger......look back at these threads and see, I started no attacks, he has stared everyone, and the facts are he is absolutely misrepresenting. I have given every source for you to check and verfiy for your self, have offered for ANYONE to come in in person and sse in your own motor, and I have every right to defend myself when he calls be a crook and a cheat.....so I think you have not followed this like you say or you would see all of this. I am a authorized vendor and my reputation as an expert in this field is whithout question, yet he comes into every single thread and posts his fales opinons and attacks me, and I should not respond? Put the shoe on your foot. What do you do for a living? Are you good at it? If I come to your job and stand outside and tell your customers you dont know what your talking about, (when I havent a clue how to do your job and have no training in it) and tell them your a crook ripping people off, how would you respond? Take a minute and think about it, and then REALLY read these threads from the begining, look at dates, etc. He even accuses me of photshopping the pictures I show of the engines past and present in out shop?

I suspect you were put up to this by him and he is playing you.....but what have you got to loose to actuall read all of this data, from automotive engineers (not marketing brass) around the world from every auto manufacturer there is supporting what I have shown?

He has made some great threads on DIY stuff he is accurate on, and I complimented him on those....but when he attacks, accuses, and lies about what I am an expert in....any respect goes out the window and anyone that would let someone make untrue claims like he is and not defend themselves is not proud of their lifetime achievements.

Now, lets discuss facts. 2-3 qusetions at a time and I will answer each in detail for you, show supporting referances, and pictures if possible. Lets have you follow up on this and then tell me I am out of line defending the attacks.

And the Admin and moderators have most of this documented as he continuously violates the forum rules.

To be afraid of people knowing the truth about any subject puts us back into the old days of communist russia. The information is out there for all to take the time to see whay he is doing with these constant attacks and the misinformation he is adament on spreading. That hurts all that would want the best for their car plain and simple.

Michael_atDell
07-22-12, 05:46 PM
I'll vouch for him, and many many others on this forum will also!

cawengr
07-22-12, 06:35 PM
sc210,
You are correct, I did not read all the threads word for word I pretty much scanned the content for technical information. I did not see where he called you a cheat or a crook, if he did he was out of line.
As to him putting me up to writing this, I think you must be smoking something illegal. i don't know him or you, I just think you aught to continue with the technical data and leave the namecalling out of it.

SC2150
07-23-12, 10:36 AM
I was wrong in saying I thought you may have been played......just the anger. And yes, he has repeadiatley called me all those and has entered most every thread to discredit, his wrods may have been not exactley it, but the meaning is clear when he claims he is "saving others from me profiting from them".

And I think he is really the only one that wont quit so it gets me on the defensive and I have no beef against you.

Just would like him to stick with what he has done in the past to benefit members and drop his hate campaign against me.

:thumbsup:

SC2150
07-24-12, 08:22 PM
And here is more data directly from GM on the subject:


Engnineering Systems


Cadillac Owners Member


Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 2


Re: How to Clean The PCV tube on 05' CTS 3.6



I usually lurk in the background, but this is getting out of hand. SC2150 has the up-most knowledge on this matter and I have personally been to his shop and inspected engines both with and without catch cans. It is in fact a fact that without fuel spraying on the valve stems that they will in fact lose efficiency and need cleaning, this is published by GM.


Service Information
Home Publications Number Search New Bulletins Bulletin Search Feedback Help
2011 Cadillac CTS | CTS VIN D Service Manual | Document ID: 2863222
#PIP5029: Engine Misfires Due To Major Carbon Deposits On The Intake And/Or Exhaust Valves - (May 29, 2012)
Subject: Engine Misfires Due To Major Carbon Deposits On The Intake And/Or Exhaust Valves

Models: 2008 - 2012 Cadillac CTS, STS
2008 - 2010 Chevrolet Cobalt SS, HHR SS
2007 - 2010 Pontiac Solstice GXP
2007 - 2010 Saturn Sky Redline
2009 - 2012 Buick Enclave
2009 - 2012 Buick Lacrosse
2009 - 2012 Chevrolet Traverse
2009 - 2012 GMC Acadia
2009 Saturn Outlook
2010 - 2012 Cadillac SRX
2010 - 2012 Chevrolet Camaro, Equinox
2010 - 2012 GMC Terrain
With any of the Following Direct Injected Gasoline Engines:
2.0 (RPO LNF)
2.4L (RPO LAF, LEA, or LUK)
2.8L (RPO LAU)
3.0L (RPO LF1)
3.6L (RPO LFX or LLT)

The following diagnosis might be helpful if the vehicle exhibits the symptom(s) described in this PI.
Condition/Concern:

Some customers may complain of a MIL and engine misfire. In some cases, the misfire may be more apparent on a cold start, may count on a single cylinder or several cylinders, and may or may not be felt by the driver. Upon inspection, the technician will find one or more misfire codes (DTC P0300-P0306) stored in the ECM and SI diagnosis may or may not isolate the cause of the misfire depending on whether the intake/exhaust valves are sticking at the time of the diagnosis.

This may be the result of major carbon build up on the intake and/or exhaust valves as shown below so the misfires should not have appeared until the engine has accumulated around 5,000 miles or more.





.







Recommendation/Instructions:

If this concern is encountered, perform SI diagnosis. If SI diagnosis isolates a valve sealing concern and/or eliminates everything else external to the engine, decarbon the engine with Upper Engine and Fuel Injector Cleaner by following the guidelines below:

Important Extreme care must be taken not to hydrolock the engine when inducing the cleaner, especially if it is induced without Kent Moore Tool # J-35800-A. If too much cleaner is induced at too low of a RPM, or if you force the engine to stall by inducing too much cleaner at once, the engine may hydrolock and bend a connecting rod(s).
1. In a well-ventilated area with the engine at operating temperature, slowly/carefully induce a bottle of GM Upper Engine and Fuel Injection Cleaner into the engine with RPM off of idle enough to prevent it from stalling (typically around 2,000 RPM or so). Depending on the engine configuration, induce the cleaner through the throttle body or an engine vacuum hose/pipe. For best results, it is suggested to induce the cleaner with Kent Moore Tool # J-35800-A (shown below).
2. Turn the engine off after inducing the cleaner and allow the cleaner to soak with the engine off for 2.5 to 3 hours (Do not let cleaner soak for more than 3 hours as remaining deposits may start to harden back up again).
3. Add a bottle of GM Fuel System Treatment Plus to the fuel tank and fill the vehicle with one of the Top Tier gasolines listed at http://www.toptiergas.com and/or in the latest version of 04-06-04-047 (USA) or 05-06-04-022 (Canada). See Bulletin 05-00-89-078 for more details on GM Fuel System Treatment Plus.
4. Test drive the vehicle extensively to circulate the GM Fuel System Treatment Plus, which will help to eliminate/reduce any remaining intake valve deposits.
5. Re-evaluate the concern to determine if it is repaired or improved at all. If the concern is improved but not repaired, it may be necessary to perform the above decarboning process a 2nd time.



6. To complete the repairs, advise the customer to only use one of the Top Tier Gasolines listed at http://www.toptiergas.com and/or in the latest version of 04-06-04-047 (USA) or 05-06-04-022 (Canada) to minimize future deposits. It can also be recommended to add a bottle of GM Fuel System Treatment Plus at every oil change as mentioned in the latest version of 04-06-04-051.
Kent Moore Tool # J-35800-A
Upper Engine and Fuel Injector Cleaner

Please follow this diagnostic or repair process thoroughly and complete each step. If the condition exhibited is resolved without completing every step, the remaining steps do not need to be performed.

GM bulletins are intended for use by professional technicians, NOT a "do-it-yourselfer". They are written to inform these technicians of conditions that may occur on some vehicles, or to provide information that could assist in the proper service of a vehicle. Properly trained technicians have the equipment, tools, safety instructions, and know-how to do a job properly and safely. If a condition is described, DO NOT assume that the bulletin applies to your vehicle, or that your vehicle will have that condition. See your GM dealer for information on whether your vehicle may benefit from the information.


WE SUPPORT VOLUNTARY TECHNICIAN CERTIFICATION
2012 General Motors. All rights reserved.

By utilizing the catch can you will reduce to eliminate most of the deposits that build up on the valve stems, I have had one on my engine now for quite a while and using a bore light I have seen very little to no build up, and especially I have not had to have this costly cleaning done. If I had not had this catch can I would have spent over twice the cost for upper induction cleanings. I am in the Industry and see the added benefit of using this system. SO before you try and dis-credit SC2150 you better have a lot more than your un-proven opinion and back up your shortcomings with real world facts.

Share





|

HurstGN
07-26-12, 12:55 PM
And here is more data directly from GM on the subject:


2011 Cadillac CTS | CTS VIN D Service Manual | Document ID: 2863222
#PIP5029: Engine Misfires Due To Major Carbon Deposits On The Intake And/Or Exhaust Valves - (May 29, 2012)
Subject: Engine Misfires Due To Major Carbon Deposits On The Intake And/Or Exhaust Valves

Models: 2008 - 2012 Cadillac CTS, STS
With any of the Following Direct Injected Gasoline Engines:
3.6L (RPO LFX or LLT)

The following diagnosis might be helpful if the vehicle exhibits the symptom(s) described in this PI.
Condition/Concern:

Some customers may complain of a MIL and engine misfire. In some cases, the misfire may be more apparent on a cold start, may count on a single cylinder or several cylinders, and may or may not be felt by the driver. Upon inspection, the technician will find one or more misfire codes (DTC P0300-P0306) stored in the ECM and SI diagnosis may or may not isolate the cause of the misfire depending on whether the intake/exhaust valves are sticking at the time of the diagnosis.

This may be the result of major carbon build up on the intake and/or exhaust valves as shown below so the misfires should not have appeared until the engine has accumulated around 5,000 miles or more.


|

OK, so GM is recommending this service for the direct injected engines. I'm looking at this and thinking about my 3.6 DI. If I have carbon deposits on the valves, this can't be from my fuel since the fuel is injected after the valves. So this must be from the oil in the intake, correct? If that's the case, then, yes, the catch can should help alleviate this problem. I can see the logic so far. But how would Top Tier gas help anything? I'm thinking Top Tier gas would only affect the combustion chamber, and possible carbon hot spots in the combustion chamber. If there are hot spots, I'd see a detonation (pre-ignition) knock, correct?

Basically I'm trying to see the logic to the bulletin pointing at the gas as the problem when it looks obvious that problem is the oil in the intake.

SC2150
07-26-12, 07:29 PM
The top tier fuel in a DI motor is not going to help the deposits at all as it never touches the intake side of the valves where these deposits form. On a non-DI the fuel additives work quite well.

On a DI motor, the fuel is not introduced until well into the compression stroke when the intake valves have long closed, and it is in the combustion chamber only milleseconds before the explosion and it does little to keep any of it clean as you can see on the pistons below in 8k miles....just where it is introduced does it help keep deposits from forming, but the high CR of the DI motors (Mazda just rekeased one w.13:1!!!) and the ultra high pressure of the fuel spray very little deposits form on the piston tops....only in the combustion chamber of the cylinder head.....but the valves are a different story.

The oil ingestion is what causes these and the throttle body buildup. If you separate and trap the oil before it ingests into the intake air charge there is nothing passing the valves or reversion coating the TB bore and blade so you will never have to have them cleaned.

The biggest issue is the build-up occurs rapidly with DI motors....here are pictures from relatively low mileage motors (8k miles on the first one):

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii115/RevXtreme1/36pics002.jpg
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii115/RevXtreme1/36pics004.jpg
and take a few minutes to pull your plenum cover off to see just how much oil is being ingested by these motors...and it is ALL of them:
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii115/RevXtreme1/LLTOilinintake.jpg
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii115/RevXtreme1/LLTgunkonvalves2.jpg
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii115/RevXtreme1/LLTgunkonvalves.jpg
Below is from a LY7 w/app 60k miles on it....the fuel helps slow the deposits, but not on a DI motor:
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii115/RevXtreme1/LLTgunkonvalves3.jpg
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii115/RevXtreme1/LLTvalves3.gif
Now here are the pictures from the GM service bulliten above:
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii115/RevXtreme1/LLTgunkonvalves3.jpg
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii115/RevXtreme1/LLTvalves1.gif
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii115/RevXtreme1/LLTvalves2.gif
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii115/RevXtreme1/gunkbuildupfromoil.jpg
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii115/RevXtreme1/LLTvalves4.gif

So, if your car is new, install a GOOD catchcan (most let as much oil through as they catch) and you prevent this from ever happening, and besides the gunk buildup, you will see more power and better fuel economy (1-3 mpg avg) as you have prevented the detonation that the oil causes and thus the ECU is not pulling timing to protect the pistons from damage.

The picture below shows a IM on the left from a car brought right from the dealer to the shop and the RX catchcan and breather kit installed, the one on the right with similar miles (both between 8 & 10k miles) without one:
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii115/RevXtreme1/oilinLLTintake001.jpg



Want to view all the pictures on our photobucket page? : http://photobucket.com/revx1

tinman
07-27-12, 01:27 PM
Wow!

HurstGN
07-29-12, 11:50 AM
If I remove the upper part of the intake to perform an inspection such as this, do I need to buy a new gasket? Or is this a reusable gasket?

Michael_atDell
07-29-12, 12:02 PM
If I remove the upper part of the intake to perform an inspection such as this, do I need to buy a new gasket? Or is this a reusable gasket?

It's reusable.

HurstGN
07-29-12, 01:14 PM
It's reusable.
Thank You. I've got to dig in there and see just how much carbon gunk I got on the valves.

SC2150
07-30-12, 09:21 AM
You can feed a boroscope right down one of the runners and see the valves.

:thumbsup:

WRXtranceformed
07-30-12, 10:21 AM
You can feed a boroscope right down one of the runners and see the valves.

:thumbsup:

Tracy, what is a good way to remove deposits like that once they have built up? Seafoam? If so, would it have to be sucked into the intake through the "sipping" method?

SC2150
07-30-12, 05:09 PM
Yes. Seafoam or BG has a good product, and the "sip" method so you dont introduce to much at a time. We are removing heads to manually clean these.

futurectsbuyer
07-30-12, 06:35 PM
Bottom Line on the Ice O Lator. Does it work? Review from anyone? I'm in 08 direct inject. Want to buy this if it works.

SC2150
07-30-12, 08:08 PM
Several thousand sold and installed and nothing but praise.....not a single return and we offer 100% refund if not as advertised.

Here is a tuner shop in Utah that did before and after testing of the CNC throttle body and the Iceolator:

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=171395&highlight=VMax+JDP

And the dyno graphs:

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=188053&page=2

Mike B
07-31-12, 03:14 PM
Which BG product do you mean?
I found the BG products here in Sweden but I havn't been able to find the Seafoam.

SC2150
07-31-12, 03:27 PM
BG upper induction cleaning. Probably the best of the ones we use. :thumbsup:

RippyPartsDept
07-31-12, 04:21 PM
is that the 44K can?

Mike B
07-31-12, 05:03 PM
I think that it is no 211.
I also found an aerosol bottle from Wynns, any thoughts about that one?

RippyPartsDept
07-31-12, 05:15 PM
oh yeah, the 44K can is the fuel additive (like techron or something)

SC2150
06-06-14, 10:55 AM
Hey all, the Iceolators and throttle bodies for most are in stock!!

Also, those running catchcans that are interested to see if their can is actually stopping the oil from ingesting, or just catching a small amount and allowing most to pass through here is a detailed test you can do: Also note: UPR has since released 2 additions to their can that will drastically improve the results of it...that test is in progress. If you have the UPR can (or similar the parts will fit several of the small billet cans) we highly recommend getting with UPR and purchasing them to improve your cans function.

:thumbsup:




5.0 UPR vs RX Catch Can Effectiveness Test
I’ve had a UPR catch can on my 5.0 since last summer. It catches a lot, especially in the cold months. But I’ll get right to my test. I added an RX can inline after my UPR can to see if the UPR was missing anything. And if it was allowing some to pass through, was it enough for the RX to catch anything? I don’t drive a lot of miles regularly since my F150 is not a daily driver, so my results will take some time. This thread is to document how I set it up and what I catch over time.
I installed the RX can just as the directions explained, but I routed the hoses differently. I left my UPR can right where it’s been for months, but rerouted one hose. I left the hose from the passenger side of the engine to the inlet of the UPR can. Then a new hose from UPR can outlet, routed to the inlet of the RX can. The RX outlet hose goes back to the engine. The PCV exhaust now flows from the engine, through the UPR, then through the RX, and finally back up to the engine intake.
Before installing everything for the test, I cleaned the UPR can thoroughly. The bottom of the can (inside) was covered with a thin layer of stiff sludge that I could only clean out using gas. I’m glad that was caught, along with the ounces of oil, water, etc, over the months I’ve been emptying it. But I was surprised at the outlet hose from the UPR can. It was wet with oil. Obviously some was getting through the can and back to my intake. I’ve never let the can get close to half full before emptying it. Nearly every time I’ve emptied it, there was 1/4“ or less in the bottom. I’m noting this in case someone thinks I left the UPR get overfilled and it flowed through. Nevertheless, I started this test after cleaning everything for a fresh start.
I plan to leave this setup on for a thousand miles or so, and report my findings from each can.
1st picture: UPR can as it was originally installed.
2nd: CleanUPR can.
3rd: RX can installed. The hose in the top center of the can is the inlet. The outlet hose on the right has a check valve.
4th: Engine outlet to UPR inlet on left of can. UPR outlet on right side of can routed around (smaller hose) to the RX inlet. You can also see the other smaller hose coming back up from the RX can and ending at the intake on the engine.

Report 2:

I thought I'd add a post to keep this thread alive since it is taking me awhile to get enough miles on the truck for valid results. Now that spring weather is finally arriving, I haven't been putting as many miles on it since I'm busy. But I have around 600 miles on the test set up so far. I emptied the cans recently and recorded the volumes to date. I'd like to wait until I get to 1000 miles before posting the results from the test, but I'll give some preliminary feedback.

- Emptying process -
First the UPR. I'm used to emptying the UPR can regularly, so it's not a big deal to unscrew, guide the can out from between the hoses, pour it out, guide it back in between the hoses, get it lined up carefully (so I don't cross thread the soft aluminum) and screw it back up snug. All that takes less than a few minutes so it's rather easy.
Now the RX can. Raise the hood, hold an empty water bottle under the drain tube, open the valve, close the valve, close the hood. I kid you not, it takes no more time than it took to read those steps. I knew it would be easy to empty, but it is ridiculously easy.

_ The weather so far -
During the first week of the test we had winter weather, with some snow. Since then we have had mild weather. Temperatures are in the 50's and 60's most days.

- What they caught so far -
I won't share the amounts yet, but I'll give some info. The UPR can has caught a 'mostly oil with a bit of water' mixture so far. The RX can (in line after the UPR) has had just the opposite. It's collected mostly water or fuel, with some oil mixed in.
I emptied the UPR first, and I would estimate it has collected the normal amount compared to what it usually does I empty it. I was pleased that my set up with 2 cans didn't seem to change the normal flow and collection I was used to seeing with just the UPR can. When I was about the turn the valve to empty the RX, I paused to a few seconds wondering if anything would come out. After all it was a new can that would need to get some oil/water coated on the inside before there would be enough to drip to the bottom (The UPR can had been in use for many months and although I cleaned the can I did not rinse off the filter material). Plus I wondered if the valve of the RX can protruded up into the can, and if it required some liquid to collect before there was enough to spill over that valve nipple and exit the can. Then I opened the valve and I had to smile when I had some liquid drain out. I thought all along that if it caught more than 10% of what the UPR was collecting, I would be surprised. It's still early in the test, and I would like to redo the test after reversing the order of the cans later, but I am surprised so far. I'm hoping to get more miles on the truck soon so I can wrap up this phase of the test.

Report 3:

1000 Miles of Testing Results

- The Weather has been warmer lately. So the test began with sub freezing temperatures, and gradually increased through the 70's and topped off in the mid 80's yesterday. I couldn't have asked for a better range of temperatures for this test.

- What they caught was astounding to me. UPR was first in line, with the RX after it to catch anything the UPR might miss.
The UPR stayed on track with what it has been accumulating for many months. Each time I emptied them, it had about the same amount. It's contents were mostly oil which smelled like used oil. It caught 17cc total which is just under 3 1/2 tsp.
The RX had more than the UPR each time I emptied them. It's contents were an oil/fuel/water type mix that had a much stronger odor. Not a fuel smell, but a sharper chemical smell compared to the odor of used oil. It caught a total of 67cc which is just over 13 1/2 tsp.

- Final totals:
UPR - 17cc
RX - 67cc

The RX can caught 4 times the amount the UPR can caught, after the UPR can removed what it could. I said from the beginning I would be surprised if the RX can could pull 10% of what the UPR caught, since it was second in line. If someone told me it would catch an equal amount I would have said BS. For it to catch 4 times what the UPR can caught is unreal.

Report 4:

The routing of cans has been reversed so the second phase of the test is underway. I cleaned the cans and hoses so neither has an advantage. I also checked the inside of the hoses as I disassembled everything. The exit hose from the UPR was dripping with oil and it made a mess as I took it apart. The exit hose from the UPR was clean and dry. It still looked new. That is what prompted me to clean all the hoses before starting this phase. Is the double can routing helping the second can that much, or is one can that much better. Time will tell again.

Report 5:

And now back to our regularly scheduled programming…


Phase 2 is almost complete now, thanks to some extra mileage for work. I'll report on that soon and begin phase 3.


As I said above, UPR shipped parts for me to do phase 3 of the test. I bought my UPR can in June, and they changed the can slightly since then. The new diffuser/extension will only fit cans made after that, so they shipped a full new kit to test. Thank you UPR for helping with this, and for your input in this thread.
After shipping the kit, Joe@UPR asked me to remove the mesh from the exit side of my existing can for the remainder of phase 2, and to remove the mesh from the exit side of the new can before starting phase 3. I removed it from both (phase 2 was half way done when I removed it from the existing can). When I was removing the mesh from the short side of the new can (in preparation for phase 3), I realized the diffuser was assembled backwards. For our 5.0 F150's the long side of the diffuser must be on the passenger side of the can when installed. I disassembled, removed the mesh packed up in the can top on the exit/passenger side, and reassembled the can with diffuser. For anyone who might have received their cans assembled by UPR, you should check to see if it was assembled correctly before installing. (EDIT: Joe notes below they assemble the cans for shipping, and all cans should be assembled for your own installation needs) I also had a small piece of the stainless steel mesh (1/8") drop out when I was doing that. I wasn't thrilled with that so I unrolled, and lightly tapped the mesh in case there were any other loose pieces, but there weren't. A quick note on the UPR kit... it is much improved since I bought mine. The hoses are pre cut to the proper lengths, the elbow fittings are nickel rather than plastic, and they include Ford OEM snap on valve cover and intake fittings.


More to come soon!

Report 6:

Test Results

- I'll summarize the test to date. The first phase was to test the UPR vs the RX catch cans on a 5.0, both base models, with the UPR first in line and RX installed to catch anything the UPR missed. Those first phase results were: UPR - 17cc, RX - 67cc. The 'first in line' UPR caught 20% of the total volume. See post 37 in this thread for more details. The cans were cleaned and reinstalled in reverse order for phase 2, RX first and then UPR.

Phase 2 Test Results
- The Weather has been average northern Ohio spring weather. Some rain, fog, cool nights, warm and hot days.

- Driving has been about the same through both phases. I good mix of rural roads, some small towns, highways, and approximately 40% of the miles on interstates at 65 - 80mph. Mostly average style driving, with a few very heavy accelerations mixed in. A little heavy hauling, and no towing.

- What they caught this time might have been predicted by some (after the results of phase 1). RX was first in line, with the UPR after it to catch anything the RX might miss.
The combined volume of gunk was half of that caught in the first phase. The first phase had some cold weather which accounted for more water in the mix and the higher volume.
The contents from the RX can was mostly oil/fuel, and had a strong chemical/solvent smell again. It caught 35.5cc total which is approximately 7 1/8 tsp.
The UPR can caught about the same mix of oil/fuel, but didn't smell quite as strong. Halfway through this phase, Joe@UPR asked me to remove the mesh on the exit side of the UPR can. I did that, but noticed no difference in what it was catching. But since it was second in line, and there was little to catch, that's understandable. The UPR can caught 1.75cc total which is approximately 1/3 tsp. With so little collecting this time, I monitored the contents of the UPR can but didn't empty it until the end of the test.

- Phase 2 Totals:
RX - 35.5cc
UPR - 1.75cc

- Other tidbits include the 'first in line' RX can caught 95% of the total volume. The exit hoses were very clean from both cans. The last few tanks of gas have produced slightly higher than my normal MPGs, but it's too early to tell on that (more to follow after phase 3).

-Phase 3, using the UPR can extension and diffuser, is underway. Details will follow.

CTSScott
06-11-14, 09:35 PM
So I got my spacer today and I have a question for those that have already installed it. If the stock orange gasket goes under the spacer, it has 2 domes on it that fit into spots on the bottom of the intake. How does the spacer fit on top of that gasket with those domes in it? It wont sit flat

HolyJerex212
06-16-14, 05:27 PM
So I got my spacer today and I have a question for those that have already installed it. If the stock orange gasket goes under the spacer, it has 2 domes on it that fit into spots on the bottom of the intake. How does the spacer fit on top of that gasket with those domes in it? It wont sit flat

You have to snip them off so everything is flush.

CTSScott
06-16-14, 09:22 PM
You have to snip them off so everything is flush.

Already done. Definitely more power on the butt dyno!!

SC2150
08-14-14, 12:37 PM
Excellent mod. One of the best for the $ hands down.

:thumbsup: