: 20 rwhp & 25 rwtq bolt on gain...



SC2150
02-20-12, 03:05 PM
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii115/RevXtreme1/PortedIMIsolatorinstall021.jpg

Love the DI motor and the power were making, but the heat soak intake manifold up through 2011 leaves alot to be desired.

Thought I'd share the latest power solution.

Did before and after dyno with the motor heat soaked well before & after the swap.....far greater gains than expected:

Graph looks like heck pulling in 3rd gear, 4th gear hit the speed limiter (no tune on the car) as you can see and only went to 5800 before limiter kicked in:

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii115/RevXtreme1/Tracy_2.jpg
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii115/RevXtreme1/Tracy_1.jpg

Going to try it on the supercharger build to see how well it works with a boosted application.

nguyendot
02-20-12, 04:25 PM
Uh...where can we get one?

WRXtranceformed
02-20-12, 05:42 PM
What is up with that first graph??

beanjapan
02-20-12, 07:33 PM
I'm not sure what we are looking at here, is this like an intake manifold spacer/insulator?

Wag-O-Neer
02-21-12, 12:38 PM
I'm not sure what we are looking at here, is this like an intake manifold spacer/insulator?

That's what I thought too. Looks like an intake phenolic spacer.

SC2150
02-21-12, 05:13 PM
It is a phnolic spacer, 9.75mm. Uses the OEM manifold gasket on the bottom, permatex right-stuff on top. Stock bolts fit.

Here is the link to buy them: http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=203387

The first graph is 3rd gear and the Bosch ECU/knock sensors pick up a resonance on a chassis dyno that keeps pulling and putting back timing.

The 2nd is in 4th where this does not happen, but you hit the speed limiter at 5800 rpm (no tune so limiter is at stock MPH).

No tune, no other mods, just the spacer. Mike Norris shop in Indiana found 20 rwhp & 28 rwtq in their dyno tests and they did before, after, and back to before to verify further.

Wag-O-Neer
02-21-12, 06:36 PM
Damn tempting. Iv'e got the Trifecta tune on order, so paired with this, we may be on to something. Add a CAI, and now we're talking....

But instead of this product gaining power, would agree that it's really only allowing you to maintain the power that you currently have? Since it's keeping radiant heat from the cylinder head, out of the intake, the ECM isn't retarding timing, therefore keeping power levels up, but not really a power adder. Either way, it sounds like a must have.

Will the Cadillac engine cover be able to stay, or have you only tested fitment on the Camaro?

Need a test mule? :)

SC2150
02-21-12, 08:21 PM
The CNC ported throttle body cures the dead spot between 1200 & 2400 rpm as well....if your in FL yes, look me up and will see how it fits. The cover is barely fitting on the camaro.

Yes on the heat. The same as my Dodge Viper used to gain 40-50 rwhp by icing the alum intake for 10 minutes after a heat soaked dyno run. By the time your ready to drive after start up the IM is already 30*f hotter than w/the isolator. The 2012 LFX has a composite so not much improvement on it.

Eliminate the oil ingestion into the intake air charge and there is alot less detonation causing the ECU to pull timing so that improves fuel economy & power as well.

WRXtranceformed
02-21-12, 10:07 PM
I'm definitely interested...that is a ridiculous $/hp ratio. Post says only 2010 and 2011 though...I wonder if they work for 2008 & 2009s?

Wag-O-Neer
02-21-12, 10:11 PM
The CNC ported throttle body cures the dead spot between 1200 & 2400 rpm as well....if your in FL yes, look me up and will see how it fits. The cover is barely fitting on the camaro.

Yes on the heat. The same as my Dodge Viper used to gain 40-50 rwhp by icing the alum intake for 10 minutes after a heat soaked dyno run. By the time your ready to drive after start up the IM is already 30*f hotter than w/the isolator. The 2012 LFX has a composite so not much improvement on it.

Eliminate the oil ingestion into the intake air charge and there is alot less detonation causing the ECU to pull timing so that improves fuel economy & power as well.

Unfortunately I'm in Maryland, so a drive down isn't in the cards. However, I'm still willing to test mule the product to see how she fits on the Caddy. I just got finished adding the Trifecta tune tonight, and I'm very happy with it. I'd love to see what happens with your spacer.

Also, talk to me about the CNC throttle body. How many millimeters is stock, and how many millimeters is yours? Does it keep the same outer diameter as stock? What gains are we looking at?

Not a whole lot of V6 Caddy performance modding going on in here, outside a CAI. You can see my trifecta thread here:

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/2008-cadillac-cts-performance-mods/251844-my-trifecta-ecm-tcm-tuning-experience.html

SC2150
02-22-12, 02:16 PM
PM me your contact shipping info.....if you have access to before & after dyno I'll send you one free.

The TB is a stock unit with CAD designed patterncut to break up the surface tension and straighten the air flow. It only gives 4-6 rwhp gains, but the off idle throttle response and low RPM gains are very noticeable. I will send one to try and eval, but will need it back afterwards or you could buy it and send your OEM core back if you want it. Either way the spacer I will donate if you can document the before and after gains for the members here in general.

I think it will all fit on the 2008 & 9, but am not 100% sure the port design is the same.

WRXtranceformed
02-22-12, 02:53 PM
Oh, I didn't realize you were the seller on that forum too...didn't even think to look. I would buy one today if I knew it fit!

nguyendot
02-22-12, 03:59 PM
I'm looking into access to a Dyno and would love to test these for the fellow members....
I guess 3 runs would be easiest... stock, + spacer, + spacer + tb. I guess we can do stock +tb too.

Wag-O-Neer
02-22-12, 04:15 PM
PM me your contact shipping info.....if you have access to before & after dyno I'll send you one free.

The TB is a stock unit with CAD designed patterncut to break up the surface tension and straighten the air flow. It only gives 4-6 rwhp gains, but the off idle throttle response and low RPM gains are very noticeable. I will send one to try and eval, but will need it back afterwards or you could buy it and send your OEM core back if you want it. Either way the spacer I will donate if you can document the before and after gains for the members here in general.

I think it will all fit on the 2008 & 9, but am not 100% sure the port design is the same.

Let me confirm that my shop has an AWD dyno, since I have a CTS-4.

I appreciate the offer, and I'm very interested to see what we can do, combined with the Trifecta remap.

SC2150
02-22-12, 05:55 PM
Sounds good!

Wag-O-Neer
02-22-12, 06:28 PM
Sounds good!

For some reason, I still can't PM on this forum. No clue...

I know you probably can't list your website here, but in the thread on the camaro5 forum you added up top, there's an AOL email address listed in your directions for paypal. Can I email my info to that address?

SC2150
02-22-12, 07:00 PM
Yes....just email me and expalin your form the cadilac forum.

SC2150
02-23-12, 04:13 PM
yes. Try it. I cant PM either here.

Wag-O-Neer
02-23-12, 04:19 PM
yes. Try it. I cant PM either here.

Email sent to RxProd...@aol.com with some basic install questions. That's the right email, right?

Thanks!

BNRacing
02-23-12, 09:46 PM
I'll be selling these also. Got hooked up with these guys earlier today so you'll have a place to buy it online starting tomorrow.

Wag-O-Neer
02-23-12, 09:55 PM
I'll be selling these also. Got hooked up with these guys earlier today so you'll have a place to buy it online starting tomorrow.

NICE! I'm guessing Tracy has told you that I'll be the first Caddy to install this thing.

I know all these threads are kind of all together at the top of the forum, but as time passes, they'll be split up. So, for those reading this 6 months from now, here's my unbiased review of this product:

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/2008-cadillac-cts-performance-mods/252964-my-next-product-reivew-black-ice.html

SC2150
02-24-12, 08:19 PM
BNR will have to get the billet pulley pictures up.

Not related to the subject here, but found an old article from 2006 on our race team at the time:

Each Rev-Xtreme Race Team Member Scores on Northern Swing--Lewis, Williams, Hickmon racking up the W’s!!!
8/23/2006
Ellenton, FL Share |






Emily Lewis, Troy Williams, Jr., and J.P. Hickmon, the three Rev-Xtreme backed Florida competitors decided to pool their resources and head North for the month of August, piling their three competition vehicles into one rig and hitting the road for a rigorous tour. Despite a lengthy stint on the road and some trials and tribulations along the way, the trip has been a huge success in terms of on-track success, with each competitor scoring along the way.

The tour began at Atco Raceway in Atco, NJ for the AA Auto Salvage $20,000 bracket events August 4-6. Their, Hickmon picked up a Gamblers event victory, while Williams advanced to late rounds in Saturday’s $20,000 event. After an adventurous trip West to the Mid-Michigan Motorplex for the World Super Pro Challenge the following weekend, Hickmon followed up with yet another victory: in Thursday’s $5,000-to-win opener. Hickmon’s Rev-Xtreme backed dragster is powered by a Nesbitt Performance Engines 555, and he was quick to credit the Carolina engine builder as well as Jeg’s Mail Order, Mullis Chassis by Forrester, and Nitroplate for his recent success.

Defending IHRA Quick Rod Champion Williams added a runner-up in Sunday’s $5,000-to-win closer, while Lewis drove her machine to a quarterfinal finish.

“The Michigan race looks real good on paper,” joked Lewis. “Troy and J.P. both made finals, and don’t get me wrong--it was a good weekend. But, we missed our shot at the real big money (the $50,000 main event was won by Tennessee’s Jason Lynch), and on the way from Atco, the motorhome broke down in Ohio. We actually had to lean on some friends to even get to Michigan--so it was a trying week!”

The entire Rev-Xtreme team wished to thank Jeremy Bargo, Carey Gill, Mike Bloomfield, and the Connolly family for their help throughout the week.

The weekend of August 19-20 brought the team to Tri-State Dragway near Cincinnati, OH for the IHRA Mr. Gasket Pro-Am event. There, Emily Lewis added to the team’s victory total, earning a win in the Quick Rod Shootout event contested Saturday night. Williams, Jr. was also a semi-finalist in that category. Then in Sunday’s main event, both she and Williams found themselves in the semi-final round once again, although both fell in that stanza.

Although the Tri-State event did not count toward Williams’ 2007 IHRA points total, he still sits atop the Quick Rod points chase as the season heads toward a close. Several competitors, including Texan Chris Pogue, Illinois based Forrest Lipke, Louisiana’s Slate Cummings, Kentucky competitor Rusty Cook, and more have a shot at overtaking the points lead.

A piece of that championship puzzle could fall into place at this weekend’s IHRA World Nationals at Norwalk Raceway Park. The Grandaddy of the IHRA schedule is the final stop on the Rev-Xtreme tour before the trio points their rig back Southbound to Florida.

Primary backing for each of the aforementioned drivers comes from Rev Xtreme (www.RevXtreme.com), a full service parts and performance shop specializing in all late model high performance cars and trucks. Florida competitors Emily Lewis, J.P. Hickmon, and Troy Williams, Jr. make up the Rev Xtreme motorsports marketing regime. RevXtreme currently has retail facilities in Tampa, FL, and Fort Myers, FL, with a new store opening soon in Atlanta, GA.

WRXtranceformed
02-25-12, 09:50 AM
Is there any way that we can confirm that this might work on the older 3.6DI engines? If I have to pick one of these up and be the guinea pig I would be up for it..

SC2150
02-25-12, 10:18 AM
Just need to have an intake manifold from one to match the ports.....I think it will (going by memory and that is scary at my age)...but if there is a some one willing to test fit and try, let me know.

sfv41901
02-27-12, 12:35 AM
How about a kit that includes the space, TH & a oil catch can?

What about a group buy?

SC2150
02-27-12, 11:21 AM
We can do free shipping if all ordered together.


Pretty sure this fits the older 3.6 but if someone buys one and it dosent I will buy it back 100% refund.

sfv41901
02-27-12, 11:38 AM
We can do free shipping if all ordered together.

Pretty sure this fits the older 3.6 but if someone buys one and it dosent I will buy it back 100% refund.

PM sent

Michael_atDell
02-27-12, 11:55 AM
I'm in for one for my '08 DI... Let's order soon! I'm so excited!

WRXtranceformed
02-27-12, 01:05 PM
Nice, these guys beat me to it. I will let you all be the guinea pigs, but I'm basically 100% on this if everything fits right!

sterling
02-27-12, 01:06 PM
Do you guys think this would void the warranty?

MTL_CTS
02-27-12, 02:22 PM
You can mark me down for one as well

SC2150
02-27-12, 05:41 PM
Warranty is a totally subjective decision based on the serivce department of the dealer. Since the banckruptcy the reimbursment rate has been greatley reduced so some do all they can to have to deal with any warranty, but the magnasun moss act is law. A warranty CANNOT be denied unless the modification made is directly related to the failure in question. Now, most dealers know you wont have knowledge of this OR the time & money to fight it.

That said, I cant imagine how a mod like this could (unless you left bolts looose and went lean, etc.) but a super charger or turbo would be cause.

:thumbsup:

Mano4
03-05-12, 09:26 PM
Will this fit the 2008 CTS DI ?

sfv41901
03-06-12, 12:29 AM
I don't see why it wouldn't fit.

SC2150
03-06-12, 08:28 AM
Should fit no problem. :thumbsup:

bojangle
03-07-12, 11:57 AM
will this fit non-DI 3.6?

SC2150
03-07-12, 12:20 PM
I am not sure......have not tried to see. If the IM is the same as the DI then yes it would.....

bojangle
03-12-12, 09:46 AM
i ordered one for my 2008 NON-DI, i will keep you posted to see if it fits it

SC2150
03-12-12, 11:57 AM
:thumbsup:

16g-95gsx
03-12-12, 07:28 PM
Alright, I just had to reply when I saw this.

Why in hell would this add this much power? Do you honestly think that your intake is magically ice cold because you placed a phenolic gasket underneath it? The manifold is still located in the hot engine bay, underneath the hood. Additionally by adding a spacer you are doing nothing but shifting the manifold resonance to a lower RPM, which would reduce HP gains that you would see otherwise (albeit both would be tiny due to all of 1/4-1/2" spacer). The fact that you would even outright claim gains like this is insane. The fraction of a second that the air is inside the runners of the manifold is small, let alone the small amount of actual air mass that comes in contact to the inside surface of the manifold. The graphs that you posted on the first page are complete BS. Gotta love how many people are actually drooling over the thought of buying into this crap.

SC2150
03-12-12, 07:37 PM
LOL!!!!! And your basing your claims on what? I suggest you call another independant that did not think our testing was accurate and did his own....and that shop saw 28 ft lbs of torque vs our 25, and the same 20 RWHP. We dont make idle boasts.....if you look at our qualifications and reputation you would see that. Oh...I just saw, 1 post. You are a troll that has come on just to interfere with a good thread.

How about you list who you are, what your qualifications are, and what your background is.

We have also provided a few of these free to others to independantly test and report back. The proof is the proof....but make sure YOU dont ever buy one, as these are not for idiots like yourself. :thumbsup:

Mike Norris Motorsports:


http://www.mikenorrismotorsports.com/

317-288-5519

16g-95gsx
03-12-12, 07:42 PM
Based on my years of working with cars and engines. Sorry bud but your claims are absolute bunk. Please explain to me what intake temp differences you're measuring to see those kind of incredible gains? I'd love to hear your thoughts on what kind of air temp changes you feel are causing them?

I've worked with engines for years, including on engine dynos, and also have an engineering degree. I will flat out say that you are lieing if you claim you're making those gains. I have not called you names, but love that you immediately jjump to calling me an "idiot" as a professional. If you honestly feel that you're right then please post up IAT changes that you're measuring, as I'm flat out calling you out as being bunk. As for 1 post, you're right, your claims as I made mention in my first post were bad enough that I was willing to sign up and make my own comments. These damn gaskets are always publicized in every new car platform out there, as people who buy into it have no idea what they are doing typically and will buy into marketing hype. You are however capitalizing on their ignorance and attacking me with names to defend yourself.

Post up IAT changes, those will be your real world test. Engine coolant temps held at 200*F, on an intake, that sees at best 70*F (assuming standard ambient conditions), and the airflow is only inside the manifold for a fraction of a second, let alone only a fraction of the mass contacts the walls. You still have a manifold sitting inside the hot engine bay regardless of your black magic gasket. So again, please post up air temps for everyone.

SC2150
03-12-12, 08:33 PM
Engine coolant temps are not efffected. The power increase comes from the densor air charge (30-34*F lower than w/out the heat isolator).

I see you list your age as 29, and are an engineer.

We are known as the leading company in R&D and product development for the DI 3.6 GM motor with several accomplishments that include:

The first twin turbo 3.6 DI system to put out 500 hp and be able to be driven daily (6k miles, 1000 non stop after leaving the shop).

The first to design a proper crankcase evacuation system that solves the crankcase pressure issues with the 3.6.

The first to market with a front mount centrifugal super charger system for the 3.6 DI.

And several other cutting edge products known throughout the modern muscle community.

Watch this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AaQRwNmt7lY

List your professional accomplishments, what type of racing, classes, and sanctioning bodies. Best way to establish credability here would be with actual accomplishments.

Mine are as follows:
Mechanical Engineer and Machinest (1978 UWSP)
over 38 years of building race & performance engines, race car fabrication, turbo & super charging specialist since the 70's.
Graduate of the Reher Morrision Race engine building school
Owner, driver, manager & crew chief of several drag teams over the past 20 years with numerous Divisional, National, & World Championships in both NHRA & IHRA in several classes. (latest we won the World in NHRA Super Gas 2011 season).

Read some press on us? (please include your media coverage):


Each Rev-Xtreme Race Team Member Scores on Northern Swing--Lewis, Williams, Hickmon racking up the W’s!!!
8/23/2006
Ellenton, FL Share |






Emily Lewis, Troy Williams, Jr., and J.P. Hickmon, the three Rev-Xtreme backed Florida competitors decided to pool their resources and head North for the month of August, piling their three competition vehicles into one rig and hitting the road for a rigorous tour. Despite a lengthy stint on the road and some trials and tribulations along the way, the trip has been a huge success in terms of on-track success, with each competitor scoring along the way.

The tour began at Atco Raceway in Atco, NJ for the AA Auto Salvage $20,000 bracket events August 4-6. Their, Hickmon picked up a Gamblers event victory, while Williams advanced to late rounds in Saturday’s $20,000 event. After an adventurous trip West to the Mid-Michigan Motorplex for the World Super Pro Challenge the following weekend, Hickmon followed up with yet another victory: in Thursday’s $5,000-to-win opener. Hickmon’s Rev-Xtreme backed dragster is powered by a Nesbitt Performance Engines 555, and he was quick to credit the Carolina engine builder as well as Jeg’s Mail Order, Mullis Chassis by Forrester, and Nitroplate for his recent success.

Defending IHRA Quick Rod Champion Williams added a runner-up in Sunday’s $5,000-to-win closer, while Lewis drove her machine to a quarterfinal finish.

“The Michigan race looks real good on paper,” joked Lewis. “Troy and J.P. both made finals, and don’t get me wrong--it was a good weekend. But, we missed our shot at the real big money (the $50,000 main event was won by Tennessee’s Jason Lynch), and on the way from Atco, the motorhome broke down in Ohio. We actually had to lean on some friends to even get to Michigan--so it was a trying week!”

The entire Rev-Xtreme team wished to thank Jeremy Bargo, Carey Gill, Mike Bloomfield, and the Connolly family for their help throughout the week.

The weekend of August 19-20 brought the team to Tri-State Dragway near Cincinnati, OH for the IHRA Mr. Gasket Pro-Am event. There, Emily Lewis added to the team’s victory total, earning a win in the Quick Rod Shootout event contested Saturday night. Williams, Jr. was also a semi-finalist in that category. Then in Sunday’s main event, both she and Williams found themselves in the semi-final round once again, although both fell in that stanza.

Although the Tri-State event did not count toward Williams’ 2007 IHRA points total, he still sits atop the Quick Rod points chase as the season heads toward a close. Several competitors, including Texan Chris Pogue, Illinois based Forrest Lipke, Louisiana’s Slate Cummings, Kentucky competitor Rusty Cook, and more have a shot at overtaking the points lead.

A piece of that championship puzzle could fall into place at this weekend’s IHRA World Nationals at Norwalk Raceway Park. The Grandaddy of the IHRA schedule is the final stop on the Rev-Xtreme tour before the trio points their rig back Southbound to Florida.

Primary backing for each of the aforementioned drivers comes from Rev Xtreme (www.RevXtreme.com), a full service parts and performance shop specializing in all late model high performance cars and trucks. Florida competitors Emily Lewis, J.P. Hickmon, and Troy Williams, Jr. make up the Rev Xtreme motorsports marketing regime. RevXtreme currently has retail facilities in Tampa, FL, and Fort Myers, FL, with a new store opening soon in Atlanta, GA.

But why not ask some here that are testing it to see first hand instead of barging in like a bull in a china shop? You are claiming this data is a lie, but do some research. Google the "Black Ice-olator" and read all the testing on other platforms using the 3.6 DI instead of looking like such a fool with your bold face accusations, and please, list all your "29 year old" accomplishments that would qualify you to even question this thread. :thumbsup:

16g-95gsx
03-12-12, 08:49 PM
How about I just go ahead and quote the air density change of 30-34*F standard atmospheric air,

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/air-temperature-pressure-density-d_771.html

For those unable to understand a chart like that, you are basically looking at a minimal air density change, all of 3-4% at best, which only decreases as airflow starts to increase during revving, increasing the air velocity through the manifold and therefore the duration of time the air has to absorb heat. 20 WHEEL hp and 25 WHEEL tq, huh?

Now with your long list of credentials please explain to me why such a mild claimed air temp change (and I honestly will say your numbers seem optimistic at best), you claim such tremendous power gains? I don't see any datalogged temp differences so at this point your numbers are entirely heresay. It's actually comical. Assuming a perfectly atmospheric air charge which will never be the case, a 30* air charge difference will mean only a FRACTION of what you're claiming, and again this is assuming there is in fact a 30* temp change, and absolutely unheard of pressure drop.

It's a joke, but thanks for the "credentials"

Michael_atDell
03-12-12, 08:54 PM
I'm no engineer and I'm only 32, but I think something knocks and gets retarded or something, and this this keeps it out of Special Ed. Kinda like a baby with a high fever...

SC2150
03-12-12, 08:55 PM
I figured you had none.

Call the dyno shop that did the first testing:

www.kesatiemotorsports.com

The temp differential amounts in a denser oxygen content, the more oxygen molecues in a given cylinder fill rate the more fuel can be introduced and the more energy released per explosive event (more power).

Your a waste of time and energy.

16g-95gsx
03-12-12, 09:09 PM
You're absolutely right, why the hell do you think I quoted density? This is the theoretical BEST gains you could have at 30*F change, 3 to 4 %, that's IT (realize for those of you who don't know we are talking an otherwise unlikely/impossible scenario for a factory setup). This is assuming a perfect air density, and a TRUE 30*F change, not just a temp change measured at the MAF (for the love of god I hope you aren't getting your number from that isolated device). Thanks for the explanation of air density though, considering I posted it up for you to prove how wrong you are....

As for the previous poster, I would ask you why you feel the engine would be otherwise knocking across the board in a factory configuration?

You're, not your. Do you want to go into engine tuning theory as well since you're starting to get into heating values and chemical release of energy through combustion? You are a parasite who is sucking on the ignorance of those who would otherwise buy into your crap.

SC2150
03-12-12, 09:21 PM
Go jump into this thread and spout your nonsense. This was a far more comprehensive test than we were able to do:

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=202185&highlight=VMax+Black+Ice-olator

16g-95gsx
03-12-12, 09:31 PM
Again, I've already shown you what a theoretical 30*F change will do at absolute best (and I dont believe your 1/4" to 1/2" gasket is actually changing the air charge by 30*F). The fact that you claim such incredible gains is flat out comical

I'll be honest, show this to anyone who actually works on engines and they will laugh in your face.

SC2150
03-13-12, 02:03 PM
Hmmmm...so you didnt read my cred's. I build motors day in and day out...

Here is one of our twin trubo 3.6DI:
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii115/RevXtreme1/twinturboFrancisco005.jpg
another:
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii115/RevXtreme1/Whiteside.jpg
and another:
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii115/RevXtreme1/Gretchenmanifold001.jpg

our supercharged 3.6DI:
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii115/RevXtreme1/LLTSuperchargerSRX002.jpg

porting and modified intake manifolds:
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii115/RevXtreme1/billetaltpulley001.jpg
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii115/RevXtreme1/PolishedLLTintake001.jpg

current DI build:
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii115/RevXtreme1/36pics005.jpg

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii115/RevXtreme1/36pics004.jpg
turbos being installed:
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii115/RevXtreme1/Franciscostwinturbo004.jpg
and some exotic motors we do:
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii115/RevXtreme1/Maserati001.jpg
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii115/RevXtreme1/Mazmotorin001.jpg

SC2150
03-13-12, 02:03 PM
and continued:
ported DI heads:
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii115/RevXtreme1/LLTtopshots001.jpg
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii115/RevXtreme1/Gretchenheads001.jpg
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii115/RevXtreme1/Gretchenheads002.jpg
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii115/RevXtreme1/LLTHPPandheads006.jpg
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii115/RevXtreme1/LLTHPPandheads007.jpg

timing chain replacements on the DI's:
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii115/RevXtreme1/36DImotor002.jpg
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii115/RevXtreme1/LLTHPPandheads002.jpg
a little shop shot:
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii115/RevXtreme1/SHop11272011001.jpg
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii115/RevXtreme1/2011drysumpcatchcanmountbreather021.jpg
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii115/RevXtreme1/2011drysumpcatchcanmountbreather020.jpg
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii115/RevXtreme1/Havocand1000HPSS014.jpg
engine clean room:
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii115/RevXtreme1/RXNewshop012.jpg

A little feature story on my engine building:
http://www.vetteweb.com/features/vemp_0912_2006_chevrolet_corvette_z06/viewall.html

16g-95gsx
03-13-12, 04:29 PM
You are doing everything you can do to beat around the facts of what I am stating. You are CLAIMING a 30-34*F temp drop on a NA setup, and I am PROVING to you with hard density numbers that even your CLAIMS would add up to at best 3-4% in an ideal world. However you are spitting out 20whp and 25wtq gains, let alone tremendous are under the curve, that blows physics out of the water. I'm not implying that you are wrong or misleading I am flat out saying you're lieing to these people and anyone with a reasonable amount of experience working with engines would know this.

I don't care about turbo systems or supercharged systems that you've worked on, that is absolutely not related to what we are even talking about. Care to see systems that I've worked on? We all have plenty of pics of our work but the fact that you show me retardedly unrelated pics like this and use unrelated logic like my post count to in some BS way give you credit is laughable.

Btw nice work on that oil return like for your turbo system just flapping around under the engine and in direct contact with the exhaust. If you're going to post up pics o make yourself look special at least make ire they don't show shitty craftsmanship in them. Wtf are you getting at with a timing chain replacement pic? Who the hell posts up bragging pics of standard maintenance?

Wag-O-Neer
03-13-12, 05:35 PM
Alright, let's take a breath here.

16g-95gsx, let me first state that I have no financial or vested interest in the producer or seller of the Vmax Ice-olator, but I do have one installed on my CTS. As a matter of fact, I believe I may have the only one installed on a 3.6DI CTS. The majority of the installs have been on the 3.6DI Camaro, which as we know, shares the same power plant. Now, that out of the way....

It certainly appears that you're trying to discredit the gains of the intake phenolic spacer. To the point of, in your last post, calling Tracy a liar (1st paragraph, last sentence). Now, unless you've installed this exact same product on your car, dyno tested it, and proven it to NOT show gains, I think it's very inconsiderate what you're doing here. Now, there's certainly nothing wrong with sharing concrete information that you have (not web links and calculations), if it's contrary to what a vendor is selling. But that doesn't seem to be the case here. You're in the non-believer camp, and that's fine. But unless you have proof to the contrary, I think you need to let the potential customers make their own decision.

Did you happen to read the reviews of this product on the camaro5.com forum? I'm guessing you haven't. My rough estimate is 40 or so satisfied customers, and one more independent test that verifies the claims set forth by this vendor.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a big believer of the placebo affect. We spend money, installed hardware, so it must be faster, right? I get it, that's how the human psyche works. I was in the non-believer camp initially, just like you. But instead of spewing venom, you know what I did? I installed one on my car. Guess what? It makes a noticeable difference. If you read my review written in the very same forum space, you'll see that I did a surface temp laser test, before and after, and the surface temp showed to have decreased by ~35-40F. Unfortunately, the IAT sensor in the car is pre-manifold, so there's no way to see what the affect on IAT was. The other very unfortunate event was the dyno I used, broke. My car is AWD, and the mechanism that adjusts the distance between the rollers, crapped out on us. This doesn't help my argument, I know, but I tell it how it is.

Did it make 20WHP? I'm not sure, but I can say with zero degree of uncertainty that it made a difference in the overall power delivery of the car. It feels stronger, and it's not placebo. Again, I encourage you to peruse the camaro5 forum, and investigate this seller, and his products. I'd be willing to bet that you won't find even ONE dissatisfied customer, as it pertains to Tracy's customer service and products he's brought to market.


Have a nice day.

Another question:

Are you on any of the Mercedes forums? That username looks awfully familiar to me.

16g-95gsx
03-13-12, 05:54 PM
You are correct in that I have gotten progressively more firm in my calling out of his claimed gains. You say that stating weblinks and calculations isn't enough, but that is EXACTLY what we are discussing here, the density difference that air temp changes cause. Now you say that you're measuring your intake manifold through the use of a non contact laser, but without going into how accurate they can be on metallic surfaces, I will state that regardless of what the temperature of the manifold actually is, the likelihood of the air passing through it becoming isothermal to the manifold itself is unlikely. Therefore even if you are measuring a temp change by your method, the likelihood of the air seeing the same temp change is unlikely (complete heresay, but we're talking very short periods of time with very little actually contacting the manifold's inner surfaces. I agree on the AIT measurement from the MAF, I made comment earlier that I hoped his claimed temp drop was not measured by that as it would be entirely irrelevant.

Now, back to my weblinks and calculation nonsense, why would a 30* air temp change on a NA engine produce a whopping 20whp and 25wtq gain? This is where these actual real world density measurements are important as they prove outright that it's impossible. I firmly believe that people are simply seeing a placebo effect. These phenolic gaskets always pop up in new car markets as they are easy for manufacturers to produce, don't interfere with the factory ECU, and therefore are easy for folks to spend money on and put blind faith that they are gaining power. The fact of the matter is the actual temp change is likely small at best, and this is the first time I have ever seen such absurd power gains claimed (most of these manufacturers will at least claim a modest 8bhp at most). I feel like I'm arguing that the sky is blue, showing him the science of optic refraction and WHY the sky is blue, and he is showing me pictures of planes to explain to me how the sky is not blue. The arguments just don't make sense. When I look at the links all I see are folks local to him, and random forum members who seem to be relatively new themselves. At best I'd say you're seeing a modest temp change (likely not even close to 30*) and you have shifted your powerband slightly to the left due to the increased runner length and subsequent resonance harmonics of the manifold. Realize how much power a 15-25wtq gain is across the board on your otherwise stock cars, it wouldn't be just a "yea I think I feel it".

Yea I'm a member of the Merc boards, I doubt you've seen me there though as I haven't posted much. I sold a 55k supercharger a few years ago, and that was about the last time I went on there.


Alright, let's take a breath here.

16g-95gsx, let me first state that I have no financial or vested interest in the producer or seller of the Vmax Ice-olator, but I do have one installed on my CTS. As a matter of fact, I believe I may have the only one installed on a 3.6DI CTS. The majority of the installs have been on the 3.6DI Camaro, which as we know, shares the same power plant. Now, that out of the way....

It certainly appears that you're trying to discredit the gains of the intake phenolic spacer. To the point of, in your last post, calling Tracy a liar (1st paragraph, last sentence). Now, unless you've installed this exact same product on your car, dyno tested it, and proven it to NOT show gains, I think it's very inconsiderate what you're doing here. Now, there's certainly nothing wrong with sharing concrete information that you have (not web links and calculations), if it's contrary to what a vendor is selling. But that doesn't seem to be the case here. You're in the non-believer camp, and that's fine. But unless you have proof to the contrary, I think you need to let the potential customers make their own decision.

Did you happen to read the reviews of this product on the camaro5.com forum? I'm guessing you haven't. My rough estimate is 40 or so satisfied customers, and one more independent test that verifies the claims set forth by this vendor.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a big believer of the placebo affect. We spend money, installed hardware, so it must be faster, right? I get it, that's how the human psyche works. I was in the non-believer camp initially, just like you. But instead of spewing venom, you know what I did? I installed one on my car. Guess what? It makes a noticeable difference. If you read my review written in the very same forum space, you'll see that I did a surface temp laser test, before and after, and the surface temp showed to have decreased by ~35-40F. Unfortunately, the IAT sensor in the car is pre-manifold, so there's no way to see what the affect on IAT was. The other very unfortunate event was they dyno I used, broke. My car is AWD, and the mechanism that adjusts the distance between the rollers, crapped out on us. This doesn't help my argument, I know, but I tell it how it is.

Did it make 20WHP? I'm not sure, but I can say with zero degree of uncertainty that it made a difference in the overall power delivery of the car. It feels stronger, and it's not placebo. Again, I encourage you to peruse the camaro5 forum, and investigate this seller, and his products. I'd be willing to bet that you won't find even ONE dissatisfied customer, as it pertains to Tracy's customer service and products he's brought to market.


Have a nice day.

Another question:

Are you on any of the Mercedes forums? That username looks awfully familiar to me.

Wag-O-Neer
03-13-12, 06:03 PM
You are correct in that I have gotten progressively more firm in my calling out of his claimed gains. You say that stating weblinks and calculations isn't enough, but that is EXACTLY what we are discussing here, the density difference that air temp changes cause. Now you say that you're measuring your intake manifold through the use of a non contact laser, but without going into how accurate they can be on metallic surfaces, I will state that regardless of what the temperature of the manifold actually is, the likelihood of the air passing through it becoming isothermal to the manifold itself is unlikely. Therefore even if you are measuring a temp change by your method, the likelihood of the air seeing the same temp change is unlikely (complete heresay, but we're talking very short periods of time with very little actually contacting the manifold's inner surfaces. I agree on the AIT measurement from the MAF, I made comment earlier that I hoped his claimed temp drop was not measured by that as it would be entirely irrelevant.

Now, back to my weblinks and calculation nonsense, why would a 30* air temp change on a NA engine produce a whopping 20whp and 25wtq gain? This is where these actual real world density measurements are important as they prove outright that it's impossible. I firmly believe that people are simply seeing a placebo effect. These phenolic gaskets always pop up in new car markets as they are easy for manufacturers to produce, don't interfere with the factory ECU, and therefore are easy for folks to spend money on and put blind faith that they are gaining power. The fact of the matter is the actual temp change is likely small at best, and this is the first time I have ever seen such absurd power gains claimed (most of these manufacturers will at least claim a modest 8bhp at most). I feel like I'm arguing that the sky is blue, showing him the science of optic refraction and WHY the sky is blue, and he is showing me pictures of planes to explain to me how the sky is not blue. The arguments just don't make sense. When I look at the links all I see are folks local to him, and random forum members who seem to be relatively new themselves. At best I'd say you're seeing a modest temp change (likely not even close to 30*) and you have shifted your powerband slightly to the left due to the increased runner length and subsequent resonance harmonics of the manifold. Realize how much power a 15-25wtq gain is across the board on your otherwise stock cars, it wouldn't be just a "yea I think I feel it".

Yea I'm a member of the Merc boards, I doubt you've seen me there though as I haven't posted much. I sold a 55k supercharger a few years ago, and that was about the last time I went on there.


Yes or No: Do you believe that the vendor here, and the other independent shop that showed gains on a dyno, are both fabricating the gains for the sole purpose of selling product?

What would you say, if I were to show you yet a 3rd dyno sheet, mine, that showed gains?

BTW, I do remember from MBWorld. You know who I am over there. :)

SC2150
03-13-12, 06:06 PM
The dyno numbers, graphs, and details on how all testing was performed are totally separate from the testing we did. This is a direct competitor of mine, not a friend or customer.

Please take the time to go read the thread and question him on how he arrived with even higher (tq) gains than we did:

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=202185&highlight=VMax+Black+Ice-olator

16g-95gsx
03-13-12, 06:28 PM
Yes or No: Do you believe that the vendor here, and the other independent shop that showed gains on a dyno, are both fabricating the gains for the sole purpose of selling product?

What would you say, if I were to show you yet a 3rd dyno sheet, mine, that showed gains?

BTW, I do remember from MBWorld. You know who I am over there. :)

I think you know where I stand with your first question.

I'd love to see your dyno if you have one, as well as the specific conditions it was performed in.

What was your name on the Merc boards? I honestly posted only a few times there and it was mainly to sell a few 55k parts that I had?

WRXtranceformed
03-13-12, 06:37 PM
16G, instead of calling out this guy on a decent product, you need to call out the guys thinking that removing a 8" intake silencer is going to cause the engine to pull timing :P

16g-95gsx
03-13-12, 06:41 PM
The dyno numbers, graphs, and details on how all testing was performed are totally separate from the testing we did. This is a direct competitor of mine, not a friend or customer.

Please take the time to go read the thread and question him on how he arrived with even higher (tq) gains than we did:

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=202185&highlight=VMax+Black+Ice-olator

I've read through the thread, it doesn't change my comments about a simple 20-30*F temp change causing a full 10+% change in torque. It just doesn't work like that.

----------


16G, instead of calling out this guy on a decent product, you need to call out the guys thinking that removing a 8" intake silencer is going to cause the engine to pull timing :P

No idea about the intake silencer, I am more interested in vendors selling products like a gasket for 150+ bucks, and claiming gains that just aren't possible. The people dyno'ing these things are the same folks selling them.

SC2150
03-13-12, 06:49 PM
It is far from a gasket...it is a 9.75mm high temp insulating material....but if your white knight cause is to attack verified data on a product, are you afriad to post in Mike Norris's thread and question the same? I dont think you have the balls. :thumbsup:

16g-95gsx
03-13-12, 07:40 PM
It's a piece of phenolic material that is sandwhiched between two metal flanges. No matter how high it is, it's still a gasket, that would be the very definition of a gasket. At 9.75mm you're talking all of 3/8" thick, not even thick by phenolic gasket standpoints. What's with the talk of me being "afraid" of posting the same thing in the other thread? We aren't on the playground at 9 years old? The same logic applies to his thread that applies to yours.

SC2150
03-13-12, 08:12 PM
Just what I said.....if you had any balls you would go over there and question that vendor....but we all know you dont have them. :thumbsup:

Wag-O-Neer
03-13-12, 09:13 PM
I think you know where I stand with your first question.

I'd love to see your dyno if you have one, as well as the specific conditions it was performed in.

What was your name on the Merc boards? I honestly posted only a few times there and it was mainly to sell a few 55k parts that I had?

Don't want to put your info out there if it's you, but are your initials JN, and you and/or your father own a speed shop in NJ?

If so, you're a bright guy, and we've actually done business together. We've never met, but have mutual acquaintances in the Mercedes racing world. As for me, I'm the...

Owner/Pilot - Quickest E500 in 1/4 mile on record
Owner/Pilot - Quickest SL600 in 1/4 mile on record
Pilot - Worlds quickest E55 in 1/4 (Lowprofile's car - built by Bruce at TTM)


Alright, none of that above has anything to do with this thread, other than me stroking myself a bit. But what can I say? I'm proud.......and vain. ;)

Ok, so...If you're who I'm thinking, I know your credentials, and you are a smart guy. There's absolutely nothing wrong with questioning any vendor's claims, when they're selling items, it's just your method that could use a little work. The power of forums are amazing when it comes to bringing unscrupulous vendors to their knees, like many did with the 360 Forged Wheel debacle, a few years back. Tracy, by all accounts, does not appear to be one of the bad guys. Quite the opposite, actually.

The problem here is, there are many customers of this vendor, who have purchased and installed this particular product, and all have a favorable opinion of it. If you research further, you'll see that it's not just local people to the vendor, but rather people that he's shipped this product to, all over the country. You've done your math, and have decided that A^2+B^2 doesn't = C^2, without ever trying the product. I don't have empirical data of of why it works. Lower IATs? Effective increase in runner length? Dunno, but the car feels faster with it.

It's note worthy that I run 93 octane in my car and have an ECU/TCU tune. But, those were also in place, prior to installing the spacer. Again, for the record, I don't know exactly how much power I've added (I will soon), but the car is stronger with the spacer.

MTL_CTS
03-14-12, 12:26 AM
Wagoneer there is only one way to settle this :D one way or the other...

Get to that dyno ASAP ;)

Edit: GSX, when I first read the claims I was also very skeptical (how could a freakin' spacer give almost the same gains as a 50-shot of nitrous LOL) but the gains have been shown by more than one dyno test on camaro5.com... I mean I guess everyone could be in on it and publishing false data for the sake of selling parts, but that would be going to great lengths for a 150$ gasket...

Lord Cadillac
03-14-12, 01:47 PM
There will be no further disrespect in this thread. The next person who breaks a rule will be banned. Read the rules if you have forgotten them - or simply aren't familiar with them:
http://www.cadillacforums.com/agreement.html

Argue all you want. Question vendors. Defend businesses. There are no rules against that. Name calling and disrespect are not tolerated here.

sfv41901
03-14-12, 09:50 PM
Now can we all just get along....... :hide:

SC2150
03-15-12, 09:33 AM
I have no problem with someone slamming the "tornado" or "turbonator" snake oil stuff or "magic magnet gets 50 MPG!!!", but this is proven and anyone testing to verify is welcome. If we were going to exaggerate any product we would claim the CNC ported TB's got 20 rwhp instead of the 3-6 we have seen in dyno testing. We would claim the oil separating crankcase evac systems give "10 mpg" instead ofthe 1-3 we actually see. Or a "magic chip that adds 100 hp!". All products we manufature ore endorse we have tested and always look for 2-3 other dyno shops to verify. :thumbsup:

racerx8
03-16-12, 08:12 PM
I've been watching this thread and thought there seemed to be some logic to the Ice-o-lator spacer so....not a lot of money so let's give it a go.
Wag-O-Neer can't have all the fun. I bought the Ice-O-Lator and a Vmax ported TB from Mike Norris, installed them, then drove around some and I think there is a difference. My '11 CTS4 3.6DI is Trifecta tuned with the Airaid setup so I data logged and sent to Vince. Vince reported back that my car is running perfect.
So the results: the car is more responsive, increased mid-range, pulls to 7000 rpm, SAE Butt dyno confirms more HP, more TQ; subjective YES and I'm satisfied.
Bottom line: I have no reason to doubt the reported dyno gains, I have some high HP reference cars (Corvettes) and these 3.6DI's are strong engines.
Thanks for listening to my two cents worth.

Wag-O-Neer
03-16-12, 09:54 PM
Give it a tank or two of fuel, it gets even better. I normally don't subscribe to the theory of ECM adaptation to hardware modifications, but I do now.

Glad you're happy with it. You should literally be able to touch your manifold after driving it.

krazienluv10
03-17-12, 03:18 AM
wag o neer, how hard is the installation? im am somewhat comfortable with tools, nothing really new, however i told my self when i first bought the car i wouldnt touch any engine anymore... and now im actually contemplating on this as well as a d3 intake as well...

mikesul
03-17-12, 01:02 PM
I've been watching this thread and thought there seemed to be some logic to the Ice-o-lator spacer so....not a lot of money so let's give it a go.
Wag-O-Neer can't have all the fun. I bought the Ice-O-Lator and a Vmax ported TB from Mike Norris, installed them, then drove around some and I think there is a difference. My '11 CTS4 3.6DI is Trifecta tuned with the Airaid setup so I data logged and sent to Vince. Vince reported back that my car is running perfect.
So the results: the car is more responsive, increased mid-range, pulls to 7000 rpm, SAE Butt dyno confirms more HP, more TQ; subjective YES and I'm satisfied.
Bottom line: I have no reason to doubt the reported dyno gains, I have some high HP reference cars (Corvettes) and these 3.6DI's are strong engines.
Thanks for listening to my two cents worth.

I have all the same mods with a lighter coupe. I agree with all you have said. Pedal response is "right now". WOT shifting is now at 7000 rpm is is firm and fast. This is really the way Cadillac should have built it. Always thought they should have had a CTS "Sport" that had N/A V8 with 425 hp for the guys that don't want a supercharged car.

racerx8
03-17-12, 04:53 PM
mikesul these are great cars and the coupe vs. sedan not very much weight difference. A big YES to the 425 hp NA CTS Sport I'd love to find a CTSV with a fragged engine and place an LS7 in the engine bay. I have an '07 Z06 with a very healthy LS7 and an '07 A6 coupe w/435 rwhp; so an LS3 or LS7 CTS Sport would be perfect! We always have to make great cars better, we're hot rodders!

SC2150
03-17-12, 06:04 PM
Hey all, anyone that knows someone with a SRX (2010-2011 only) I need one ASAP to install our supercharger system on. Will do it for 1/2 price but will need the SRX for 1-2 weeks. Spread the word please.....:thumbsup:

Wag-O-Neer
03-17-12, 07:20 PM
Hey all, anyone that knows someone with a SRX (2010-2011 only) I need one ASAP to install our supercharger system on. Will do it for 1/2 price but will need the SRX for 1-2 weeks. Spread the word please.....:thumbsup:

Tracy, I'll ask around. PM me what the cost would be for it, total with tuning etc... They're gonna ask...

SRX only? Or any 2010-2011 3.6?

Wag-O-Neer
03-17-12, 07:23 PM
wag o neer, how hard is the installation? im am somewhat comfortable with tools, nothing really new, however i told my self when i first bought the car i wouldnt touch any engine anymore... and now im actually contemplating on this as well as a d3 intake as well...

Install is a 5/10 for anyone with basic wrenching skills. If you're comfortable with say....a brake job...you'd be fine here. Same level of difficulty.

Tracy and Mike Norris both penned very nice how-to's. If you search the Camaro5.com forum, the install docs are readily available.

Wag-O-Neer
03-17-12, 07:24 PM
I'm jealous of you guys with the lighter cars. The AWD wagon is a portly 4300 lbs or something like that

MTL_CTS
03-18-12, 11:50 AM
I'm jealous of you guys with the lighter cars. The AWD wagon is a portly 4300 lbs or something like that

A supercharger from KPE would help with the power to weight ratio ;)

SC2150
03-18-12, 11:55 AM
A supercharger from KPE would help with the power to weight ratio ;)

Hmmm...I thought we were the only one super charging these? Fill me in if someone else is....details!

MTL_CTS
03-18-12, 01:55 PM
The sticky at the top of the page... the supercharger is made by IPF-tuning KPE is one of the distributors sorry I should have specified lol

leigh1322
03-18-12, 04:55 PM
a I just have to chime in here that 30oF is a really big air temperature difference. There is a reason virtually ever race car in the world has a cold-air intake or scoop - they work.

Since I teach chemistry and physics, (as well as build race engines), maybe a little science is justified. I am not trying to continue this thread but some of the math oriented or intelligent people reading this thread might appreciate a little scientific justification and support for the 30hp claim being bashed here.

A 30oF drop in air temp would result in almost exactly 10% less volume , and hence 10% denser air flow, since denisty is dependent on Charles' Gas Law and becomes maximaized at absolute zero. And room air temp is about 300 degrees above absolute zero, and it is a linear albeit inversely related correlation, hence the 10 percent density increase with colder air. So the theory is sound. And yes I purpously ignored any difference between celcius and farenheit so as not to make this too complicated.

Point two the air temp could increase very quickly from all the radiated (radiant) heat inside the manifold. The air does not require contact with the surface to warm it. You get very warm from a fire even though you don't touch the flames don't you? And aluminum both conducts and radiates heat very well.

Point three is well taken that some actual air temperature data would be nice, but I have never seen that done, excpet at the auto manufacurer engine development level, the speed equipment manufacturers usually just use final results or horsepower data, as was done here, so the air temp data is unecessary, since the theory is scientifically sound.

There are always other unknown variables that can affect the results, but it actually the final (HP) results that most people care about most.

Wag-O-Neer
03-18-12, 05:31 PM
^^^ Great post.

I posted this in my review thread, but I'll just leave it here too, for those researching this product.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNar5OFFdOc

SC2150
03-19-12, 10:10 AM
Excelent video.

16g-95gsx
03-19-12, 07:28 PM
a I just have to chime in here that 30oF is a really big air temperature difference. There is a reason virtually ever race car in the world has a cold-air intake or scoop - they work.

Since I teach chemistry and physics, (as well as build race engines), maybe a little science is justified. I am not trying to continue this thread but some of the math oriented or intelligent people reading this thread might appreciate a little scientific justification and support for the 30hp claim being bashed here.

A 30oF drop in air temp would result in almost exactly 10% less volume , and hence 10% denser air flow, since denisty is dependent on Charles' Gas Law and becomes maximaized at absolute zero. And room air temp is about 300 degrees above absolute zero, and it is a linear albeit inversely related correlation, hence the 10 percent density increase with colder air. So the theory is sound. And yes I purpously ignored any difference between celcius and farenheit so as not to make this too complicated.

Point two the air temp could increase very quickly from all the radiated (radiant) heat inside the manifold. The air does not require contact with the surface to warm it. You get very warm from a fire even though you don't touch the flames don't you? And aluminum both conducts and radiates heat very well.

Point three is well taken that some actual air temperature data would be nice, but I have never seen that done, excpet at the auto manufacurer engine development level, the speed equipment manufacturers usually just use final results or horsepower data, as was done here, so the air temp data is unecessary, since the theory is scientifically sound.

There are always other unknown variables that can affect the results, but it actually the final (HP) results that most people care about most.

As counterpoints to what you're saying, you are absolutely correct in that colder air, cold intakes, etc, result in denser air charges and therefore more power. I would however say you should look into what the density difference between 100*F air is and 130*F air, it is not 10% different.

Radiation is a phenomenon of energy transfer due to light, I don't believe you are actually having this take place within the manifold. Comparing energy transfer from a fire is a bit misleading as you are getting both light emissions as well as conduction/convection. Air inside the manifold would be likely be considered convection, and the higher in the rpm band you go the higher the velocity of the traveling air and therefore the less likely you are to have increased heat transfer (unless you have high turbulence).

Anyway, I'm pretty much leaving it at this, I don't deny that the use of a thick gasket will lower ultimate manifold temps, and in theory gain power. What I am questioning however is the actual power increase developed, and I feel that the claims here seem highly unlikely. I see external manifold temperature measurements, but I see nothing more than butt dyno's and vendor dyno's otherwise. I wish you guys the best of luck, and if you feel it's a great purchase then good.

krazienluv10
03-24-12, 08:08 PM
^^^ agreed, it sounds very similar to a tb bypass i used to do back in the day... we just need actual data...

SC2150
03-25-12, 01:12 PM
Tons of actual data......what did you miss? Let me know what you want to see.

krazienluv10
03-26-12, 10:42 PM
oic, my mistake, was actually following another thread and didnt notice the data on the first page. quick question, was the test car dynoed, awd or rwd? reason being as im looking at a couple dyno graphs and was just comparing baselines... thanks!

SC2150
03-27-12, 11:30 AM
2 wd to date...would like to see the AWD results as there will be more drivetrain parasitic loss.

The one thing we do is offer to buy back any of our products the customer is not satisfied with so that is a no risk situation. We put our money where our mouth is. No restocking fees or gimmicks. :thumbsup:

Wag-O-Neer
03-27-12, 12:22 PM
2 wd to date...would like to see the AWD results as there will be more drivetrain parasitic loss.

The one thing we do is offer to buy back any of our products the customer is not satisfied with so that is a no risk situation. We put our money where our mouth is. No restocking fees or gimmicks. :thumbsup:

I'm still working on that AWD dyno for my car. Our issue now is, the Black Ice is already installed, but I'll still be able to show a baseline with just the Black Ice and another with Black Ice + Trifecta tune. And since I have the VMAX throttle body in hand, I'll be able to show a 3rd graph including the TB.

kingtj
03-28-12, 12:00 PM
Yep... and I'm still very interested to see those results! I wanted to dyno my AWD CTS Coupe too, before and after the Trifecta tune I did -- but not really sure who has an AWD capable dyno in the St. Louis, MO area these days?

I just did some Google searching and found this place in Union, MO that supposedly does: http://www.ettuning.com/

But never been there before, and wouldn't have time to do this anyway, unless they have Saturday hours....



I'm still working on that AWD dyno for my car. Our issue now is, the Black Ice is already installed, but I'll still be able to show a baseline with just the Black Ice and another with Black Ice + Trifecta tune. And since I have the VMAX throttle body in hand, I'll be able to show a 3rd graph including the TB.

Wag-O-Neer
03-28-12, 12:09 PM
Yep... and I'm still very interested to see those results! I wanted to dyno my AWD CTS Coupe too, before and after the Trifecta tune I did -- but not really sure who has an AWD capable dyno in the St. Louis, MO area these days?

I just did some Google searching and found this place in Union, MO that supposedly does: http://www.ettuning.com/

But never been there before, and wouldn't have time to do this anyway, unless they have Saturday hours....

I'm having the same issue. AWD dynos just aren't very plentiful. I called a shop owner yesterday that had one, and he said he wouldn't let me use it, if I was going to do my own tuning. WTF?

sfv41901
03-29-12, 03:45 PM
I'm having the same issue. AWD dynos just aren't very plentiful. I called a shop owner yesterday that had one, and he said he wouldn't let me use it, if I was going to do my own tuning. WTF?

Wow.....that's BS

jaymsu
04-06-12, 10:10 PM
I've been following this thread for some time, and was very interested in the product.
Can any cadillac dealer step in and share their thought on warranty issue with product installed?
20hp and 25torque gain for $150 is amazing deal!! I want to order one if I have some assurance that this product will not void warranty.

sfv41901
04-07-12, 01:31 AM
I've been following this thread for some time, and was very interested in the product.
Can any cadillac dealer step in and share their thought on warranty issue with product installed?
20hp and 25torque gain for $150 is amazing deal!! I want to order one if I have some assurance that this product will not void warranty.

It's all up to the dealer. My service advisor said he can care less. Others might.

SC2150
04-07-12, 08:34 AM
Every dealer makes that call. Cant imagine it would affect it bur cant guarantee it a bit.If in doubt, you can always remove it if you have a catastrophic failure and need warranty.

sfv41901
04-07-12, 11:37 AM
I told my service advisor that I was thing of getting a s/c & would it void my warranty......his response: "if it blows the motor, just take it off & bring it in, it will be covered". :D:

SC2150
04-07-12, 12:50 PM
Thats a good service writer!!!

sfv41901
04-07-12, 02:09 PM
Thats a good service writer!!!

Ur telling me. :highfive:

SC2150
05-01-12, 12:36 PM
We have these in stock, ready to ship!!!

SC2150
05-05-12, 02:34 PM
Attention!! The current model does NOT fit the pre DI version...only the 09-2011. We have a 2008 in and are making the correct one for it so stay tuned. If you ordered the DI version we will swap it for you.


:thumbsup:

Michael_atDell
05-05-12, 02:37 PM
Attention!! The current model does NOT fit the pre DI version...only the 09-2011. We have a 2008 in and are making the correct one for it so stay tuned. If you ordered the DI version we will swap it for you.

:thumbsup:

I have it installed on my 2008 DI... Should I remove it?

krazienluv10
05-05-12, 03:09 PM
why doesnt it fit for 2008? pics on the differences?

SC2150
05-05-12, 03:17 PM
My error....2007 and older is different......You are correct. The 2008 is DI and it works.....my stupidity!!!

Your fine. We have a 2007 we are using for the non DI V6 version.

Pdabs
06-09-12, 04:53 PM
I would love to order this and install it myself. Can anyone post install directions and part number for the gasket needed. That would be awesome.

SC2150
06-09-12, 07:03 PM
You can reuse your gasket, and seal the other side with Permatex Rightstuff.

The hardest part of the install is removing the rear 2 bolts that hold a fuel line bracket. They are not needed so dont need to be re installed.

They are on the rear facing forward and a 13mm swivel ratchet wrench makes it easy.

The resy is pretty simple. Unbolt TB, unplug lines, remove 4 center bolts and rear most & forward most that go straight down into the IM, remove IM, cut the "bumps" loose from the OM gasket (4 tabs each) then install gasket, place Iceolator on gasket, spread small amount of right stuff (or RTV) around each port...not to thick, but completely around for proper seal, set intake in place (the rear most bolt must be inserted before setting in place....use a clothes pin to hold it up so it dosent drop) and then starting with the rear most and forward most bolts start to snug down, then move to the center 4 and evenly draw down until hand tight (dont over tighten!). and reinstall the rest. App 30 minutes for the average guy. Make sure you have premium fuel in tank, disconect the negative cable on the battery for a few minutes to rest fuel trims and clear codes, and start it up...make sure no leaks, and enjoy!!! :thumbsup:

SC2150
06-09-12, 07:05 PM
Oh, to order, PayPal: RXProducts@aol.com
Make sure to specify the product, the make/model/year/motor

Or call direct: 941-721-1826

austin
06-09-12, 08:41 PM
So, would it be fair to say that 2012 models got a redesign and do not suffer from this issue? Any reports of heat soak on 2012's? So far I have had not noticed any, but I'm still in the break-in period so I'm not pushing on it yet.

SC2150
06-10-12, 07:38 AM
You are correct. The LFX has a composite IM and that has eliminated much of the heat soak issue resulting in the increased output over the LLT. The other major difference is the cylinder heads have the exhaust manifold integrated into them but that did not produce much more power as much as a production cost savings. :thuumbsup:

SC2150
07-20-12, 06:10 PM
Bumping this up for those that havent followed this thread. :thumbsup:

Pdabs
01-23-13, 01:32 AM
Just installed vmax iceolator. Very happy with the product. Tune next.

SC2150
01-24-13, 06:41 PM
And, if in the breakin period and you want to avoid all the oil consumption issues, disregard the owners manual and drive that car relatively hard! (safely of course). Get the rings seated properly.

jcaddell
02-17-13, 01:18 PM
You can reuse your gasket, and seal the other side with Permatex Rightstuff.

The hardest part of the install is removing the rear 2 bolts that hold a fuel line bracket. They are not needed so dont need to be re installed.

They are on the rear facing forward and a 13mm swivel ratchet wrench makes it easy.

The resy is pretty simple. Unbolt TB, unplug lines, remove 4 center bolts and rear most & forward most that go straight down into the IM, remove IM, cut the "bumps" loose from the OM gasket (4 tabs each) then install gasket, place Iceolator on gasket, spread small amount of right stuff (or RTV) around each port...not to thick, but completely around for proper seal, set intake in place (the rear most bolt must be inserted before setting in place....use a clothes pin to hold it up so it dosent drop) and then starting with the rear most and forward most bolts start to snug down, then move to the center 4 and evenly draw down until hand tight (dont over tighten!). and reinstall the rest. App 30 minutes for the average guy. Make sure you have premium fuel in tank, disconect the negative cable on the battery for a few minutes to rest fuel trims and clear codes, and start it up...make sure no leaks, and enjoy!!! :thumbsup:

I installed this yesterday and I let it sit over night before turning it on. When I started it the car immediately died. I tried a few more times, and still would not stay running. I did not disconnect the battery after installation.

Does anyone have any idea if disconnecting the battery will solve the problem? The car is at my job, and I am already home or I would have already tried this. Just checking before I drive all the way back up there to test this.

SC2150
02-17-13, 07:02 PM
Check to make sure the MAF was plugged back in correctly, and triple check each hose connection to make sure they all got hokked back up as well as the TB plug. Disconnect the bat negative cable for 5 minutes as well to reset any communication errors.

:thumbsup:

jcaddell
02-17-13, 07:46 PM
I went and disconnected the battery cable for around 5 minutes. I can start the car, and when I rev the gas it will stay on and run rough. The gas idles up and down roughly if I take my foot off the gas and will die soon afte. It will pop a time or two also. I am going to completely disassemble it tomorrow and make sure I didnt kink a fuel line some how. I can smell a little gas when I get under the hood. I was real careful to put everything back as I had taken it apart.

The instructions on this forums and other must have been for a camaro, or a different engine because the pictures did not look like my engine.

2008 cadillac cts 3.6 non DI.


Anyways, I will have more time tomorrow to take it down, and figure out the problem.

Pdabs
02-17-13, 09:37 PM
Just make sure everything is bolted up correctly.

When I did mine the intake filter had fallen off (d3) and it did the sane as yours. Start. Sputter. Die.

I didnt know they made vmaxx for non Di.

shudog
02-17-13, 10:46 PM
anyone have any quarter mile times? Would love to see if the intake & tune is worth a couple tenths???

SC2150
02-18-13, 10:34 AM
Sure sounds like a vacuum leak. The Non DI should be the LY7 pretty sure. And yes, we have the ieolators for them.

Keep us informed.

:thumbsup:

cbiglake
03-16-13, 08:14 PM
I am a newbie to this forum so forgive me if this has already been asked . But will this niffty item work on a 3.0 2011 AWD ? THANKS CBIGLAKE!!!
bu

SC2150
03-19-13, 11:04 AM
We have not released the 3.0 version yet but will post test results after we get that far. Stay tuned!

krenzema
03-19-13, 01:32 PM
Please post the instructions for installing the ice-olator on a 2011 CTS coupe. I would like to understand what is involved prior to purchasing the part... Also, instructions for installing your catch can on my 3.6 LLT motor.

Thanks,
Motivated Buyer

cbiglake
03-19-13, 10:17 PM
:worship:TRUST ME I WILL STAY TUNED THANKS

Guyver280z
04-24-13, 02:44 PM
Will this spacer fit my 2011 Coupe 6 Speed? And how do I know exactly what engine I have? Thanks!!

SC2150
04-24-13, 03:05 PM
2011 has the LLT engine, so yes (as long as it is the 3.6L) the LLT version is what you need.

www.RevXtreme.com
941-721-1826

Tbbt
04-24-13, 03:06 PM
Just for everyone's info.........there is a ton of information on the build sheet which is under the spare tire cover. My wagon is a 3.6 LLT as stated on the build sheet. I was amazed at the info it showed me. Take a look and it should tell which engine you have in your coupe.

I'm sure the space will work for you, just find your engine type and send in your order!

Marv

SC2150
04-24-13, 03:57 PM
2011 has the LLT engine, so yes (as long as it is the 3.6L) the LLT version is what you need.

www.RevXtreme.com
941-721-1826

Guyver280z
04-26-13, 04:28 PM
Good to know, I'll double check when I get home.

Thanks much!!

SC2150
11-05-13, 04:17 PM
Little to no wait all!!! Bolt on 20 rwhp and 25 plus rwtq for the LLT. Also have the LY7 versions in stock.

www.RevXtreme.com or call direct: 941-721-1826 to order.

Catchcans the same. Down to 2-5 days depending on the color you want, and have them for the ATS as well.

CarlosZ06
11-28-13, 01:03 PM
i already asked on your fb page, but in case you miss it, i have a 2011 3.6l coupe, will the engine cover still fit? and also, do you ship to mexico?

btw, i read the whole thread and i was like...

http://cdn04.cdnwp.thefrisky.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/25/330x182px-LL-7dc6c095_micheal-jackson-eating-popcorn-theater-gif.gif

SC2150
12-03-13, 03:17 PM
Got your order. Thanks!

We have these in stock, ready to ship for both the LY7 and the LLT 3.6L

The most power gain for the $ of any product to date for these.

:thumbsup:

www.RevXtreme.com

941-721-1826

CarlosZ06
12-06-13, 12:12 AM
Got your order. Thanks!

We have these in stock, ready to ship for both the LY7 and the LLT 3.6L

The most power gain for the $ of any product to date for these.

:thumbsup:

www.RevXtreme.com

941-721-1826sorry to ask again, but do you ship to Mexico?

08lackblackcherry
01-24-14, 09:15 PM
new in the thread and its a lot of info to digest... Im looking to order one i have a 08 cts 3.6DI, want to revive the thread... any body installed lately and how hard was the install

Pdabs
01-25-14, 02:28 AM
Very easy to install. Couple bolts. Little permatex silicone. That's it.