: Cadillac ATS - No Convertible, No Wagon and now no Coupe (yet)



Lord Cadillac
02-02-12, 07:44 PM
Not so sure what to think of this... Not good, really... I get the feeling they want to see how well the ATS sells as a sedan before investing any money into a coupe. If that's the case, they have serious confidence problems...



http://youtu.be/dqy2CSUIg-Q

Lord Cadillac
02-02-12, 08:45 PM
And I just remembered how LS2 MN6 told us that GM "HATES" coupes... Jeez... I should have seen this coming...

edit: Just noting that if GM plans to give Cadillac the ATS Coupe a year after initial launch, I'm fine with that. I just don't want to hear they're delaying plans "indefinitely"...

0AT E03
02-02-12, 09:39 PM
I believe they do hate them. However I'd expect the ATS Coupe to show up, considering the success of the CTS Coupe. The ATS Coupe is just delayed, like a lot of things at GM it probably just isn't "high priority." Cadillac needs at least one coupe in the line-up. The only way you kill the ATS coupe is if you develop a "Roadster/Coupe" car like a Z4, aka "The next XLR" which if we see another one will be on Alpha. However if I was betting I'd bet on an ATS Coupe before a 2nd Generation Alpha XLR Roadster. Besides with the Alpha Camaro coming as probably the only other Coupe in the GM line-up you know the platform can handle it. The Corvette is technically a "hatchback"

hueterm
02-02-12, 10:11 PM
Well...the ATS would look pretty much like a smaller CTS -- which is itself too small -- so no biggie.

Make an Omega coupe, and then they'll impress me. One w/a V8 and a real trunk -- not a C pillar that runs all the way to the bumper.

My coupe fetish can be satiated w/various M-B S-Class coupes, plus vintage GM (CDVs, Eldos, Rivs, Toros) -- so at least I don't have to hold my breath...

0AT E03
02-02-12, 10:49 PM
I was trying to throw together a list of coupes, and for the domestics it's pitiful....

Chevrolet Camaro
Chevrolet Corvette (even though it's a Sports Car and a Hatchback, I'll count it due to the list being pathetic)
Cadillac CTS Coupe
Dodge Challenger
Ford Mustang

That's a crappy list, 3 Pony Cars, the Corvette, and the CTS-Coupe. Horseshit.

hueterm
02-02-12, 10:55 PM
OH -- don't get me started......

I was 35 years old before I bought my first 4-door car (I'd had SUVs before that)...

I need to sit in a Challenger, even though I don't like it as it looks too '70s pseudo Dukes of Hazzard for me. (And YES to all the nitpickers -- I know the Dukes drove a Charger, not a Challenger....)

I should just go buy up a couple more late '90s S/C Rivieras that are in great shape, and dirt cheap. I've been driving mine for a couple of days, and it really is nice to lose the back doors... Take that GM (and the rest of the auto industry for that matter), I don't need your whack design trends...

I do have my eye on this, BTW...:

http://www.autotraderclassics.com/classic-car/1978-Oldsmobile-Toronado-265361.xhtml?conversationId=116406

BEarle
02-03-12, 10:25 AM
I never liked 4 doors myself either....it's either coupes or SUVs

JimmyH
02-03-12, 04:52 PM
It's no big mystery. Coupes don't sell well unless they are sports cars. The 3-series seems to be the sole exception to that rule, so it makes sense to have an ATS coupe. But I can understand GM not wanting to gamble on it.

The CTS coupe is very over-the-top, style wise. That's why it was successful. But I would be willing to bet sales will fizzle very soon now as they always do with big coupes.

hueterm
02-03-12, 05:25 PM
MB has three and BMW has two...

GM is cheap.

If they're going to do it right, they should be making a SWB and LWB Omega sedan anyway. It cannot cost that much to chop two doors off of the SWB, and knock off the CL.

Lord Cadillac
02-03-12, 05:28 PM
It's no big mystery. Coupes don't sell well unless they are sports cars. The 3-series seems to be the sole exception to that rule, so it makes sense to have an ATS coupe. But I can understand GM not wanting to gamble on it.

The CTS coupe is very over-the-top, style wise. That's why it was successful. But I would be willing to bet sales will fizzle very soon now as they always do with big coupes.

I see lots and lots of Honda Accord/Civic Coupes and Nissan Altima Coupes. Tons of Infiniti G35/G37 Coupes. The Hyundai Elantra is getting a Coupe. C-Class Coupe, E-Class Coupe, 6-Series Coupe, 3-Series Coupe. GM can do this but somebody high up is too worried about the "risks". Just F'ing get it DONE - and COMPETE...

Or don't!

hueterm
02-03-12, 05:31 PM
And spin Cadillac off as a separate company, so they can...

JimmyH
02-03-12, 05:32 PM
I know there are plenty of coupe models available.

Just drive around any parking lot, or sit on the side of the road and watch traffic, or just pay attention during your commute. You won't see many coupes out there on a daily basis. I bet over 99% of what you see is vehicles with 4 doors.

hueterm
02-03-12, 05:32 PM
And...making the CTS coupe look so bizarre was a big mistake as well. It would have been perfectly fine to make it look like the sedan, but w/2 doors.

JimmyH
02-03-12, 05:33 PM
And if you guys want your coupes, go for it. I have had a coupe for well over a year now, and the big ass doors suck. I think I am done with coupes.

hueterm
02-03-12, 05:33 PM
I see a lot of Accords and a lot of 3s. I used to see a lot of Solaras. As many as the sedans -- no, of course not.

rand49er
02-03-12, 05:34 PM
If they do a coupe, I just hope they style it so it's behind doesn't look like the Gen 2 CTS. You know, so it isn't so ... so ... so very large.

hueterm
02-03-12, 05:35 PM
If I had kids, I probably wouldn't want one, but that's not an issue.

I love the big doors on my Riv -- bring em on...

JimmyH
02-03-12, 05:37 PM
And...making the CTS coupe look so bizarre was a big mistake as well. It would have been perfectly fine to make it look like the sedan, but w/2 doors.

Had they made it more sedate, they would have lost sales from people who bought simply because it is so striking. But they would have gained sales from people who want a sedate looking car. I bet that is part of the reason coupes generally don't do well. Most coupes tend to be dramatic looking, most people don't want to be noticed.

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I love the big doors on my Riv -- bring em on...

Just the other day it was really windy. I opened my door to get out, and the wind pulled it right out of hand and the door swung open hard. Luckily, there was no one next to me. If there had been, I would be dropping a couple hundred bucks right now to get a big ass dent out of someone's door.

hueterm
02-03-12, 05:37 PM
The Seville and Eldorado from '92-97 were perfect stablemates. Start there.

JimmyH
02-03-12, 05:40 PM
Nothing against the seville/eldo; I know alot of people here like them. But that car was pretty much the laughing stock of the luxury automotive world. I don't think GM is looking anywhere near that car for inspiration.

hueterm
02-03-12, 05:53 PM
When they were released? Not so much. After having been bled for a cash cow for 10 years? Agreed.

And I'm wasn't really talking about their "merit", I'm talking about how a 2 door and 4 door can be developed from the same platform.

GM-4-LIFE
02-03-12, 06:09 PM
If this is true, GM has just proven to the world that they can't match or better yet, beat BMW. It seemed Mark Reuss wanted to go head to head against GM to compete and win. I guess something changed since they kept touting how the ATS was going to beat the BMW 3 series.

GM may be waiting for the currrent gen CTS Coupe to end it's product life cycle before introducing another Coupe bodystyle. I really think it may be too early to tell if the ATS Coupe is really on hold or not. Did GM ever make an official statement regarding the ATS Coupe? I haven't seen anything. Keep in mind that the current CTS Sedan bodystyle was launched in 2007 as a 2008 model year vehicle and the CTS Coupe didn't launch until Fall of 2010 as a 2011 model year vehicle. The ATS Coupe may not be released until a couple years after the ATS sedan which by then all the R&D, tooling and manufacturing costs would have been paid for and will allow GM to put forth resources for additional bodystyles like the Coupe, Wagon and Vert.

Lord Cadillac
02-03-12, 06:32 PM
I do feel that an ATS Coupe and CTS Coupe selling in the same showroom would be a terrible mistake. Why? Because the ATS Coupe would probably not be much smaller than the CTS Coupe is right now. That and when the third generation CTS comes along - does it really NEED a Coupe if the ATS is going to have one? There's no 5-Series Coupe. There's an E-Class Coupe but does that mean Cadillac has to have one? There's no XF Coupe, no Lexus GS Coupe, Infiniti M Coupe... If Cadillac is going to have a mid-size coupe, I'd rather see it be MUCH different than an ATS Coupe and slot between the CTS and Flagship like the Mercedes CLS does.

hueterm
02-03-12, 06:36 PM
Only...not a CLS, as that's a sedan w/a really cramped back seat... ;-p

But, yes, I agree.

Lord Cadillac
02-03-12, 06:44 PM
Only...not a CLS, as that's a sedan w/a really cramped back seat... ;-p

But, yes, I agree.

Maybe a Cadillac version of the CLS would be more Coupe DeVille like...

GM-4-LIFE
02-03-12, 07:39 PM
Lord Cadillac,

BMW has the 6 series coupe and 6 series vert in additon to the 3 series coupe and vert, so Cadillac should have at least one coupe and one vert to compete with the Germans. Right?

I personally think that GM is waiting for the current CTS line up to live out it's product cycle before they release the ATS Coupe. They have already said that the next gen CTS will ONLY be in the Sedan form as it will be too big to have a Coupe bodystyle. I think that is the best idea. Make the ATS the only Cadillac to offer a Coupe, so it will be as small as possible. I love my CTS-V Coupe, but I do feel it is a bit too long and WAY WAY WAY TOO HEAVY!!

hueterm
02-03-12, 08:13 PM
If it's not as big as this:

86050

then, pass...

JimmyH
02-03-12, 08:45 PM
Has GM confirmed a 2013 CTS coupe? They did state the CTS coupe and wagon would only run 2-3 years.

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And how many of those "big" coupes do BMW and MB sell? I bet not very many.

hueterm
02-03-12, 08:52 PM
They don't sell that many Ss or 7s, either...

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And Cadillac won't sell that many Omegas, for that matter...whether 2 or 4 door.

JimmyH
02-03-12, 09:17 PM
If someone would make my $35k sport sedan, they would sell a ton of them.

Stingroo
02-04-12, 05:28 AM
Lots of whining up in this thread... holy.


I'm with Sal on this. Hold the ATS coupe off a couple of years until the new CTS comes out, then bring it on. It would be stupid to have both on the sales floor at the same time. It's already going to be an issue for a year or so with the ATS and CTS on the floor and being virtually the same size as it is. Why compound that problem because a few people are being impatient whiners? It's bad business.

BMW may have the 6 series sedan/coupe, but when is the last time you saw one of those? To me, that's a waste of a model because it's got no identity between the 5 and the 7 (which, to my eye, still look the same anyway, but whatever).


As for all the complaining about the CTS coupe being too small... really? It's not a full size car, nor is it meant to be. We've gone over this ad nauseum. Yes, Cadillac is missing this piece of the puzzle, no the CTS is not it, no it was never designed to be it, no it won't magically take Viagra and grow into one. We get it.

Lord Cadillac
02-04-12, 10:46 AM
Lord Cadillac,

BMW has the 6 series coupe and 6 series vert in additon to the 3 series coupe and vert, so Cadillac should have at least one coupe and one vert to compete with the Germans. Right?

I personally think that GM is waiting for the current CTS line up to live out it's product cycle before they release the ATS Coupe. They have already said that the next gen CTS will ONLY be in the Sedan form as it will be too big to have a Coupe bodystyle. I think that is the best idea. Make the ATS the only Cadillac to offer a Coupe, so it will be as small as possible. I love my CTS-V Coupe, but I do feel it is a bit too long and WAY WAY WAY TOO HEAVY!!

I don't have a problem with an ATS coupe and a big personal luxury coupe (like the Coupe DeVille) slotting above the CTS...


If it's not as big as this:

86050

then, pass...

...as I was saying - like that...


Has GM confirmed a 2013 CTS coupe? They did state the CTS coupe and wagon would only run 2-3 years.

----------

And how many of those "big" coupes do BMW and MB sell? I bet not very many.

I don't believe there will be a CTS coupe in the next generation. There's really no need for one. Now if they simply want a halo car to bring more buyers into showrooms to buy other Cadillacs, that's fine.

0AT E03
02-04-12, 11:23 AM
Has GM confirmed a 2013 CTS coupe? They did state the CTS coupe and wagon would only run 2-3 years.

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And how many of those "big" coupes do BMW and MB sell? I bet not very many.

CTS Coupe and Wagon run until MY 2014. The 3rd Gen CTS Sedan will be sold next to the 2nd Gen CTS Coupe and Wagon for 1 year.

nguyennhatquang
02-04-12, 12:43 PM
i think it may be a good idea..
C-class haven't get any couple until 2012..first years Benz C-class couple
and the 3-series couple looks gays..door is too big and the rear door is delete looks terrible....

anyway...
if any one real couple go with ZL1..it sound and look amazing..

hueterm
02-04-12, 12:46 PM
CTS Coupe and Wagon run until MY 2014. The 3rd Gen CTS Sedan will be sold next to the 2nd Gen CTS Coupe and Wagon for 1 year.

Yeah, they'll really sell a lot of them then... :rolleyes:

0AT E03
02-04-12, 02:14 PM
Yeah, they'll really sell a lot of them then... :rolleyes:

You'd be surprised. A lot of people won't realize that they aren't at all the same even with the radically different interiors.

Lord Cadillac
02-04-12, 03:37 PM
I think the plan LS2 pointed out will work. After the CTS coupe is gone, the ATS coupe can take over.

elphil
02-14-12, 03:45 PM
Cadillac needs to get going. They have 2012 models but they don't have any NEW cars for sale.

Lord Cadillac
02-15-12, 01:27 PM
Cadillac needs to get going. They have 2012 models but they don't have any NEW cars for sale.

Well. The only Cadillac CAR right now is the CTS - and the Coupe is still pretty new. The STS, DTS and XLR are all gone. The XTS will be here very soon and the ATS will be right behind it...

JimmyH
02-15-12, 05:44 PM
Cadillac needs to get going. They have 2012 models but they don't have any NEW cars for sale.

The CTS is only 4 model years old. Even the japanese run their models 4-5 years. Of course, the japanese and Germans run a car for 4-5 years, freshen the sheet metal and plastic, and call it an "all-new" model. At least GM and Ford throw some new engineering in.

0AT E03
02-15-12, 06:17 PM
The problem with Cadillac right now is that they only have 3 models. Not that the models are old.

Intro years: 2007 Escalade, 2008 CTS, 2010 SRX
Taking a good guess at the update years: 2013 XTS, 2013 ATS, 2013 SRX MCE (new Interior), 2014 CTS, 2015 Escalade (early release), 2016 SRX

JimmyH
02-15-12, 07:18 PM
Is 2014 confirmed for the 3rd gen CTS?

0AT E03
02-15-12, 07:21 PM
Is 2014 confirmed for the 3rd gen CTS?

You are seeing IVERs on Winter Test (check out the MotorAuthority article on it) which usually means you'll see production in 18 months or less. So my guess is 2014 for the model year.

rand49er
02-16-12, 06:30 PM
A little off subject, but this is in reference to "Cadillac needs to get going," there was a news item today on ABC News that said a JD Power survey came out saying the top three brands for quality were Lexus, Porsche, and Cadillac. Not too shabby, Cadillac!

JimmyH
02-16-12, 07:01 PM
I believe that's initial quality, not long term.

thebigjimsho
02-17-12, 12:40 AM
Nah, that's the dependability survey based on 3 year old '09 models...

JimmyH
02-17-12, 02:07 PM
Oh. JD Power is usually touting their "Initial Quality" surveys the most. In this day of disposable cars, that's what sells.