: Do The 2006 and newer DTS Northstars have the same headgasket issues?



postman2000
01-29-12, 07:29 PM
My engine block in my 2000 has had a crack now for 3 years..This year it seems to be getting worse..Have to add more and more antifreeze..Im debating whether to fix this engine or just get another car..My question is this..Do the 2006 and newer DTS's have any issues with the head gaskets or head bolts...or any other common failures that I should be aware of?

Ranger
01-29-12, 09:32 PM
Do the 2006 and newer DTS's have any issues with the head gaskets or head bolts
Not that I have heard of. Seems like there have been very few since the thread pitch change in '04.

postman2000
01-30-12, 04:26 AM
So in theory if i found a really clean 2005 i should'nt have to worry too much about the head bolts pulling? I personally like the 2000 - 2005 style better than the 2006 and newer..Thanks Ranger..

maeng9981
01-30-12, 04:48 AM
Yes - just replace the coolant regularly and you wouldn't deal with the gasket/bolts problem anymore.

JoeTahoe
01-30-12, 08:44 PM
I have a friend that bought a 2005 deville and it did have a pulled head bolt now it has jakes studs in it. Had around 130000 on it. It is also a auction car. This was this last spring. But it is the only one I have ever seen or herd of so far

postman2000
01-30-12, 11:30 PM
Wow a 2005 with a head bolt problem..That sucks..I dont know what to think now..

vincentm
01-31-12, 12:40 AM
Wow a 2005 with a head bolt problem..That sucks..I dont know what to think now..

Could've been due to poor maintenace, don't get paranoid

00 Deville
01-31-12, 01:09 PM
So in theory if i found a really clean 2005 i should'nt have to worry too much about the head bolts pulling? I personally like the 2000 - 2005 style better than the 2006 and newer...

You should be able to extend your search to include the 04 model year now that we are able to determine which 04's have the same head bolts as an 05.

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-deville-1985-2005-including-1985/251054-2004-deville-determining-headbolt-thread-pitch.html

bigtone
01-31-12, 04:16 PM
While researching inserts for my son's 2001 Deville with a failed H/G, I was told that there has been some demand for 2004 and 2005's. Not good news.

RippyPartsDept
01-31-12, 05:18 PM
... we have not seen many pulled head bolts on the 2004.5/2005+ redesigned bolts ((one or two maybe)

there have also been a handful of true headgasket failures ... in these cases we have not studded the block and have not had any problems with those cars since
(seems like a very low headgasket failure rate to me...)

bigtone
01-31-12, 06:36 PM
That is very good to hear.

postman2000
02-02-12, 10:14 AM
Hey Chris, Do you know of any headgasket or head bolt problems on any 2006 or newer DTS that have come into your dealership? Also do the 06 and newer DTS have any other major problems of their own that you are aware of? I thank you for your time...

RippyPartsDept
02-02-12, 10:54 AM
We've seen a few gasket failures but no bolt failures
as I said earlier, we've seen a couple bolt failures on 2005's (which should have the same bolt design as the 2006+)
well they're not bolt failures like the previous designs where they would pull out
these are loose bolts (which probably has to do with the gasket failures)

i'm not sure if they're backing out or if they were always loose and it was a factory build problem
but it's not really that many - I just checked the sales history and we've done 5 in the last 24 months

besides lower block seal leaks (which are also greatly reduced with the new N* design) i can't really think of anything else that is common at all

00 Deville
02-02-12, 01:10 PM
I just checked the sales history and we've done 5 in the last 24 months

So the 5 sales in the last 24 months would be on the head gasket kit # 89017600 that is used on the following cars...

- 04-05 Deville
- 06-11 DTS

For comparison could you share 24 month usage on head gasket kit # 12564795 that is used on the 00-04 N*.

RippyPartsDept
02-02-12, 04:19 PM
yeah, i thought to do that yesterday but was a bit rushed

12560633/12560632 - 19 repairs in 24 months (1993-1999 N*)
12564795/12564796 - 26 repairs in 24 months (2000-2004 N*)

drewsdeville
02-02-12, 04:37 PM
45 HG repairs in just 2 years at just one dealer - lol. Who's that one member that claims N* aren't more prone to HG failure than any other engine?

hueterm
02-02-12, 05:09 PM
Hey Chris, Do you know of any headgasket or head bolt problems on any 2006 or newer DTS that have come into your dealership? Also do the 06 and newer DTS have any other major problems of their own that you are aware of? I thank you for your time...

The 06+ has a tendency to get warped rotors, depending on the pads and how aggressive you are at getting them changed. I had to get mine resurfaced at 38K miles.

Also, the driver's seat can have a creaking sound. And the HID ballasts can be finicky on early models.

All in all, very little.

RippyPartsDept
02-02-12, 05:52 PM
yeah i forgot about the headlight ballast issue ... i think that was '06 only ... there's two designs for '06 that's for sure (a three bolt ballast and a four bolt ballast)

Mark D
02-11-12, 02:43 PM
45 HG repairs in just 2 years at just one dealer - lol. Who's that one member that claims N* aren't more prone to HG failure than any other engine?

I think the comment was about more than any other aluminum engine. That said, without any figures handy to back up my opinion, I believe the Northstar engines have a higher history of head gasket failure than the typical aluminum engine. This is due, in part, to a mistake in GM engineering with the head bolt thread size, pitch and quality. My examinations of threads in blocks with head gasket failures have lead me to believe that there is a distinct lack of good machining practice when the bolt holes were threaded at the factory. Again, this is my opinion based on observations. The observations were on failed engines only, and only after they failed. But it's still my opinion at this time.
Had those same engines been manufactured with the Sure Grip studs, there would still most likely have been some head gasket failures over the course of years of engines being built. But they would have been rare.
In my mind, and in the minds of many, the head gasket issue by itself is not cause to consider the engine a poor or troublesome engine. In so many ways, they are a masterpiece of factory production engine design.
That said, in truth there is really no mechanical, economy or performance reason to have a four cam 32 valve V8 engine that runs on the street at RPM's that seldom reach 6000 or more, and never over 7000. A pushrod V8 of the same displacement can easily give the same performance that is available from the very lively Northstar.
But it's all about sales. In the '80s, when this engine was designed, the average car buyer doesn't have a clue what a cam is, or a valve, inside an engine. But when they see that this car has 32 of the things, or 4 of those things, and that car over there only has 16 of the things, and only one of those things, and the car hobbiest magazine says that the European cars are all using "Modern" engine design with overhead cams and 4 valves per cylinder... etc... well, to compete GM sort of needed an engine that had big numbers in the parts department.
That it has turned out to be a stellar engine anyway is great. And all those extra parts make it sort of cool, even if the power could be made without them.
It beats the heck out of the stodgy 4.9, anyway. But that's not to say that the 4.9 couldn't be made to produce power. Any engine can be made to produce decent power. But from the factory, the Northstar Rocks, in its class.
But the GM LS motors are actually a better engine overall.
Again, all just my opinion.
Mark D.