: Guys with no Ultra View Sunroof, does your car feel and handle better? Anyone compare



MrMaschine
01-29-12, 06:40 PM
Not only is it rare to find a 6 speed V but even more rare to find one with no sunroof.

I absolutely hate the rattles i hear daily from my Ultraview and wish it wasn't part of my cars options.
i do like the look when its open but i think the car is so powerful for such a huge rood cut out

curious if the non sunroof crowd feels a more solid built interior and better torsional rigidity overall.

ruby 1
01-29-12, 07:13 PM
Did it rattle from the beginning?

Houdini
01-29-12, 07:38 PM
might just need oiled properly. Mine is super quiet with 10k miles.

baabootoo
01-29-12, 07:41 PM
If you look up the frame design, you can see that they have some extra bracing up there also. They also show the different strength steels that are used in each section also. I don't worry about strength, I just miss the headroom with a helmet.

buddyg
01-29-12, 08:43 PM
No problem with mine and I love the open feel.

Crystal Red CTS-V
01-29-12, 10:25 PM
That's why I had to order mine - no sunroof!

MrMaschine
01-29-12, 10:37 PM
mine has rattled since day one and with the D3 springs and sway bars it got much worse with the stiffness

thats why i asked if anyone has noticed a real difference with and without sunroof, i do think its odd to see a high dollar luxury car with no sunroof.

my car has 34k miles and it squeaks bad when i drive into NYC or anywhere else with bad roads

Club Malibu
01-29-12, 11:15 PM
No sunroof. No rattles. No squeaks. 11K miles.

supratovcoupe
01-30-12, 12:42 AM
8K no rattles so far.
I do not open it much that might help?
I would be happy w/o it though for the headroom.
Mark B.

Razorecko
01-30-12, 07:46 AM
mine made some noise in cold weather in the beginning. I had a TSB applied to it and ever since it's been dead quiet all the time. Like its not even there

M5eater
01-30-12, 08:35 AM
Torsional rigidity might not be a lot better as mentioned with the extra bracing, although it should be better in theory. However, the biggest improvement is that you're loosing 75-100lbs from the highest point in the car, and that's going to lower it's center of gravity.

My personal opinion, I love the roof, but the lack of head-room is horrendus. I can't use a full-sized helmet and even without one I'm pretty much 1" away from the roof.

ohub
01-30-12, 09:44 AM
No sunroof and no rattles (my wagon is brand new, though).

Cadillac Cust Svc
01-30-12, 10:17 AM
mine has rattled since day one and with the D3 springs and sway bars it got much worse with the stiffness

thats why i asked if anyone has noticed a real difference with and without sunroof, i do think its odd to see a high dollar luxury car with no sunroof.

my car has 34k miles and it squeaks bad when i drive into NYC or anywhere else with bad roads

I apologize for your frustrations. Since your vehicle is still under warranty, if you want me to make an appointment at your local dealer, let me know.
Breanne
Cadillac Customer Service

B T Williams
01-30-12, 10:41 AM
A sunroof adds weight to a CTS and reduces structural rigidity. (The glass used in a sunroof is heavier than the steel it replaces.) This is more of an issue in a CTS-V sedan or waggon than a CTS-V coupe, because the sedan's and waggon's "Ultraview" sunroof is nearly twice the size of the a coupe's sunroof.

Gary Wells
01-30-12, 12:55 PM
I considered myself very fortunate to find a brand new '09 CTS-V, TG sedan fully equipped less sunroof & polished wheels on a showroom floor in July of '09.
10K miles later, no squeaks, & / or rattles to speak of. I did test drive a sunroof model prior to buying mine. I did feel there was a noticeable difference in addition to certain aspects that I did not care for with the sunroof. I've had 5 turbo Buicks, all solid roofs, and know enough to not buy any of those with any roof treatment. Much worse regarding rigidity than a sunroof is a t-top. No T-tops in my life either.

M5eater
01-30-12, 04:04 PM
I apologize for your frustrations. Since your vehicle is still under warranty, if you want me to make an appointment at your local dealer, let me know.
Breanne
Cadillac Customer Service
Thanks for looking out for us, imo however,
It's pretty much a given that bad roads+ stiff tires + lowering springs and stiffer sway bars will increase NVH.

GM-4-LIFE
01-30-12, 04:35 PM
I had a 2009 V Sedan with the sunroof and I hated it. I never had any problems with it, but I hated that the sunshade didn't provide much shade. I had to have the sunroof tinted down to 0% in order for the sun not to bother me. After my experience with the sunroof, I ordered my 2010 V Sedan without the sunroof and what an amazing change. Car felt tighter and quieter and I liked how dark it got inside. I would highly recommend NOT getting one with the sunroof. I ordered my 2011 V Coupe with the sunroof as well and I couldn't be happier.

Gary Wells
01-30-12, 07:24 PM
I am surprised that you went back to the sunroof on the '11 coupe, Shawn, after being unhappy with the '09 sedan sunroof.

V locity
01-30-12, 09:56 PM
2011 sedan/6000 miles. Roof creeks in/out of driveway when angled only. Otherwise, perfectly quite.

It's actually good to evac hot air out of the car upon entry after sitting in the hot Texas summer sun.

stabie
01-30-12, 10:11 PM
I am wondering if gorilla glass would have a better weight to structure ratio. I've even wondered if the C pillar could be made of it for better visibility. About the only complaint I have in my vagon is rear viz. I think it might make some cool designs to have the D pillar be totally see thru.

MrMaschine
01-31-12, 07:38 AM
someone in this thread mentioned there is a frame and structural view of our cars with ultraview can someone post up
a view of this showing the added bracing and construction? Where were people finding broken welds up on the roof and pillar area?

lilred
01-31-12, 03:39 PM
I must have spent 6 months looking for a new/used V with no sunroof. They are near impossible to find since all the dealers seems to automatically order them with the sunroof. I finally found one an hour from my house. Turns out the dealer intended to check the sunroof option but forgot to (the car had every other option except yellow calipers). I sat in a lot of sunroof cars and needed the headroom that the no sunroof cars provide.

GM-4-LIFE
01-31-12, 05:44 PM
I am surprised that you went back to the sunroof on the '11 coupe, Shawn, after being unhappy with the '09 sedan sunroof.

It was a typo. My 2011 CTS-V Coupe DOES NOT have a sunroof. Sorry about that.

Xaqtly
01-31-12, 06:56 PM
I sat in a lot of sunroof cars and needed the headroom that the no sunroof cars provide.

Out of curiosity, is that because of the need for clearance when wearing a helmet for track days, or is it just because you're tall? If so, how tall are you? I'm just asking because I'm a little taller than average and am wondering if I'm going to have issues.

Trionalaw
01-31-12, 07:09 PM
Torsional rigidity might not be a lot better as mentioned with the extra bracing, although it should be better in theory. However, the biggest improvement is that you're loosing 75-100lbs from the highest point in the car, and that's going to lower it's center of gravity.

My personal opinion, I love the roof, but the lack of head-room is horrendus. I can't use a full-sized helmet and even without one I'm pretty much 1" away from the roof.

Same reasons I word my 2012 Coupe without the sunroof.

Hopefully should be in some time in February. I am worse than the little kid on Christmas Eve at this point.

Jim

M5eater
01-31-12, 09:49 PM
I drove a sunroof-less CTS tonight and I must say, the extra head-room is intoxicating, and the car isn't really all that much darker. Right now, I wish I had opted out myself.


Same reasons I word my 2012 Coupe without the sunroof.

Hopefully should be in some time in February. I am worse than the little kid on Christmas Eve at this point.

Jim
Although you sacrifice less for a sunroof in the coupe(the unit weighs less without another piece of glass and it doesn't slide so headroom isn't so bad), the fact that it doesn't slide make it useless imo.

hutch66
02-01-12, 03:23 AM
mine made some noise in cold weather in the beginning. I had a TSB applied to it and ever since it's been dead quiet all the time. Like its not even there

my car has only 1300 miles and has been creeking since day 1. What is a TSB? Mine is dead quiet when the sunroof is open, but shut, it creeks turning into steep driveways or really bad roads or bumps. Unlike some, all my cars have had sunroofs. It's a must for me.

WhoseCadillacIsThat
02-01-12, 07:13 AM
We've had a sunroof in other cars - FFH, Jeep ZJs and GCs - that I was stuck on for a number of years and eventually had problems with leaks or malfunctions with every one. This last Jeep GC was rear-ended and the sunroof leaked badly from then on no matter how many times it went back to the body shop/dealer. This 'V' was found w/o the sunroof, we chose it and happy we did - they are a nice feature and pleasant to use - but most easily forgotten.... They can be and usually are a PITA.

hutch66
02-02-12, 10:48 AM
I would like to ask again, what's a TSB???

rjoffe
02-02-12, 11:00 AM
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/tsb/tsbsearch.cfm

hutch66
02-02-12, 07:38 PM
I searched but could not find this. What is the TSB number?

rjoffe
02-02-12, 09:49 PM
try here:

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/2009-cadillac-cts-v-general-discussion/193350-ultraview-tsb-3.html

lilred
02-03-12, 01:48 PM
Out of curiosity, is that because of the need for clearance when wearing a helmet for track days, or is it just because you're tall? If so, how tall are you? I'm just asking because I'm a little taller than average and am wondering if I'm going to have issues.

Well, both. I'm 6'6" pretty evenly divided between legs and torso. In the sunroof cars my head was literally touching the roof. I also drag race occasionally and needed room for a helmet. As it is the helmet brushes the roof if I move to close to the left.

Xaqtly
02-03-12, 05:00 PM
ok, that's not too bad then. I'm only about 6'3 so I should have at least an inch of clearance with a helmet I'd think. When I did the track days at the Ron Fellows school, I had real problems with a lack of headroom in the Z06s while wearing a helmet.

cruiser68
02-03-12, 05:08 PM
I'm 6' 230lbs and have a sunroof. I attended a Caddy sponsored track day at a local road course in Joliet IL last summer.. At the time I was not aware of the significant headroom loss with the sunroof. I really did not have any clearance issues with a full-face helmet. Granted I wasn't thinking about it other than lowering the seat a tad when I first got seated. I still had some to go down but didn't really need it. Don't recall ever hitting hitting my helmet anywhere. I would suggest if you are considering buying and plan on tracking your V, definitely bring a helmet to the dealer and try them both out. It would be a bummer if you got to the track and just didn't fit with a helmet :(

On a side note, Just got some drag radials for spring :) Can't wait.

WhoseCadillacIsThat
02-03-12, 06:29 PM
I would like to ask again, what's a TSB???

Ambition is the path to success, persistence is the vehicle you arrive in.
William Eardley IV

You do us all good...

hutch66
02-03-12, 07:39 PM
Ambition is the path to success, persistence is the vehicle you arrive in.
William Eardley IV

You do us all good...

Have no clue what you're saying. OH, that's right you needed a quote to make a statement. Real genius..

Sorry for going off topic guys and apologies to the OP.

Took my car to the dealer today and using the TSB numbers provided by helpful members on the board he applied it to my vehicle. I appreciate it guys.

BTT...If you cut a large piece of sheet metal and then replace it with a frame (sunroof) center section and bolt it in, are you really going to lose some rigidity and add weight...of course. How much time is it going to cost you at HPDE??? a couple of tenths??? Even a second... Honestly if you really care about those kind of things get a real race car. I love my sunroof.

Karch
02-03-12, 10:30 PM
I considered myself very fortunate to find a brand new '09 CTS-V, TG sedan fully equipped less sunroof & polished wheels on a showroom floor in July of '09.
10K miles later, no squeaks, & / or rattles to speak of. I did test drive a sunroof model prior to buying mine. I did feel there was a noticeable difference in addition to certain aspects that I did not care for with the sunroof. I've had 5 turbo Buicks, all solid roofs, and know enough to not buy any of those with any roof treatment. Much worse regarding rigidity than a sunroof is a t-top. No T-tops in my life either.

Gary, I am trying to buy one just like this, but trying to sell my Trailblazer SS first. No sunroof, which I want (I actually wanted to buy Shawn's 2010 16 months ago, but wasn't ready), gray, etc.
If I could only sell my truck for close to what I am asking, I'll be driving a V this week.

Trionalaw
02-04-12, 12:33 PM
I drove a sunroof-less CTS tonight and I must say, the extra head-room is intoxicating, and the car isn't really all that much darker. Right now, I wish I had opted out myself.


Although you sacrifice less for a sunroof in the coupe(the unit weighs less without another piece of glass and it doesn't slide so headroom isn't so bad), the fact that it doesn't slide make it useless imo.

Forgot about the fact is only tilts and doesn't slide. Another reason I ordered rather than take the exact same coupe which was available with dealer trade other than fact it had sunroof.

concorso
02-05-12, 08:55 PM
Torsional rigidity might not be a lot better as mentioned with the extra bracing, although it should be better in theory. However, the biggest improvement is that you're loosing 75-100lbs from the highest point in the car, and that's going to lower it's center of gravity.

My personal opinion, I love the roof, but the lack of head-room is horrendus. I can't use a full-sized helmet and even without one I'm pretty much 1" away from the roof.How tall are you and are you top-long or bottom-long?

Id like to know the difference in weight between the heaviest V (Wagon,Auto,Sunroof, etc) vs a Coupe with 6M and no sunroof? It cant be much more then 250 lbs?

Karch
02-08-12, 01:59 AM
Sorry to say that the V I have been coveting had a deposit put down 12 hours before I called with my deposit. I had to get a buyer for my truck first, and apparently I just missed out.
This is a real downer for me, as I am very particular in what I want, and I think this car would have been perfect.

carterb
02-08-12, 06:53 PM
Previous CTS with ultraview rattled and squeaked. No rattles or squeaks with this car (yet) with 3k miles.

Xaqtly
02-15-12, 03:16 PM
Just an update: I've gotten my Vagon and now I can comment on the headroom. Mine has the ultra view sunroof, and my head is very close to hitting the roof, with the seat all the way down. Recaro seats, set to as low in the car as they can go, and my hair is actually touching the roof. Clearly I will not be able to wear a helmet without leaning the seat way back. And I'm only 6'3. Honestly I am surprised, because my STi gives me so much more headroom. I have a good 3-4" of clearance in that car.

But, my head isn't actually hitting the roof in the V so I'm not going to complain about it too much. I will say though, that I'm sitting up so high that the tops of the gauges in the dash are being cut off from my field of view a little bit. This car was obviously designed for people under 6'. I could lean the seat back, but then you've got the whole one armed gangster lean thing going on and that's a terrible driving position.

But as it is, I have a good seating position and everything is where it should be, I just have no room to spare between my head and the roof, and the gauges aren't centered vertically for me. I didn't want the sunroof either, but I was buying used and didn't have much of a choice. The good news is that I have no rattles or squeaks or anything. It's all bolted in quite nicely as far as I can tell.