: 1968 472 Disty completely frozen and now broken.



grassisgreener
01-06-12, 06:50 PM
This is bad news folks.

I discovered that the distributor on my 68 472 is completely frozen. Won't turn. Won't come out. Even after bathing in repeated douses of liquid wrench for 4 days.

It was heated with a heat gun. Nothing. Then tried an impact wrench. Which snapped the shaft at the base. It's still in there and what remains of the shaft is impossible to move from the top because after all that is shapeless blob of steel.

Plan B:

Does anyone know if the timing cover is removed, will I have access to the tip of the distributor? Maybe I can hammer it out from the bottom.

I have the shop manual on order but wanted feedback from yous.

Funny thing is the car is very clean with only 69K. See photos. Everything else in the engine has been easy out easy in. Except this...

http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss148/allfreetime3/IMG_0319-1.jpg

http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss148/allfreetime3/IMG_0325.jpg

drmenard
01-06-12, 10:28 PM
The distrubtor goes straight down to the oil pump... The oil pump is just bolted in with 4 or 5 bolts... If you take off the pump the bottom of the shaft that goes in the pump is right there... With the pump off you could hit the end of the shaft with a punch and hammer and drive the distrubtor up and out.. But must be very careful not to hit the block .. and what ever you do don't hit where the oil pump bolts to... If you want to keep a points distrubtor , and not go to a HEI, I think I have one you can have for the ride... I'll check back here .. Let us know how it goes...

grassisgreener
01-09-12, 07:06 PM
drmenard
Re: 1968 472 Disty completely frozen and now broken.

The distrubtor goes straight down to the oil pump... The oil pump is just bolted in with 4 or 5 bolts... If you take off the pump the bottom of the shaft that goes in the pump is right there... With the pump off you could hit the end of the shaft with a punch and hammer and drive the distrubtor up and out.. But must be very careful not to hit the block .. and what ever you do don't hit where the oil pump bolts to... If you want to keep a points distrubtor , and not go to a HEI, I think I have one you can have for the ride... I'll check back here .. Let us know how it goes...

THANKS Dr. Menard! I owe you big time!!!

After a week and a half that damned disty is out.

Exactly as you said. Three easy 3 steps and the oil pump is out. Got a rod small enough to get in there safely. Seven hits and it was out.

I'll post a pic of that thing tomorrow.

New disty and cap ready to go. Ordering a new oil pump tonight.

drmenard
01-10-12, 12:16 AM
About your new oil pump...If you have already ordered it what you should do before you put it in.... There have been some guys that put in new pumps and the pressure relief valve got stuck open... So what the guys do now when they put in a new pump is take the set screw out and that out the spring and piston.. polish the bore in the pump and polish the piston... you really take off a real small amount but its enough to keep them from getting stuck... There are alot of guys who love the old aluminum body pumps and just buy a rebuilding kit...

The Ape Man
01-10-12, 09:46 PM
I have not run into any problems with the aluminum or cast iron pump. Maybe they don't like sitting on a shelf. I wouldn't install an oil pump without packing with some white lithium grease and then spinning it with the dist out.

No reason the OP can't just re-install his original pump.

grassisgreener
01-13-12, 07:07 PM
New oil pump fail. Gasket was no good. Dumped about 1/4 quart before I noticed a giant puddle. Hard to find just the gasket. So I talked Auto Zone into getting another pump and giving me the gasket.

I have one last question for the forum which I'll post tomorrow. I've been scowering my new shop manual but so far cannot find what I'm looking for.

If any fellow 68 owners need a part of the shop manual scanned I'd be happy to help.

*Also I am of course keeping the original pump. If need be it can be rebuilt and re-installed.

Anyway, here is what's left of that &%$#@ disty..

http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss148/allfreetime3/Resampled_2012-01-13_17-31-38_935.jpg

The Ape Man
01-14-12, 11:08 PM
If you can't get just an oil pump gasket send me an email @ w2vw333333@comcast.net . (Lose the anti spamming number 3333333s) I had to buy 20 gaskets about 20 years ago and still have about 19. You are welcome to one gratis.

grassisgreener
01-15-12, 01:38 PM
If you can't get just an oil pump gasket send me an email @ w2vw333333@comcast.net . (Lose the anti spamming number 3333333s) I had to buy 20 gaskets about 20 years ago and still have about 19. You are welcome to one gratis.

Thank you Ape Man.

The second gasket A-Zone gave me was also garbage. It is as thin as a post card, stretched in places and scalloped/torn in others.

So I enacted plans B and C (before reading your generous offer). Plan B was to order the rebuild kit which comes with the gasket (hopefully a good one). Unfortunately it was $36 when I only need a $2 gasket.

Plan C (which I thought of on my way home from A-Zone) was buying Mr. Gasket paper and giving it to a friend who has the tools to make gaskets. If this works I'll just return the rebuild kit.

Will update next week.

The Ape Man
01-15-12, 09:30 PM
I've made these gaskets before and do not recommend it except for emergencys.

They are supposed to be very thin.

Do not use any sealer on these : )

drmenard
01-16-12, 04:05 PM
The gasket is very thin... It is about .005 to .006 thick...Many years ago I got a too thick gasket in a cheap gasket kit.. Make sure its not too thick.. If Apeman can't find where he put them , I have a few...

grassisgreener
01-16-12, 06:17 PM
%&$#! In hindsight I should of just left the pump alone.

Yesterday morning I put the home made gasket in (which was 1/8" thick) with some sealant....

Complete oil pressure drop. I may have also interfered with the 'L' shaped channel shown in the picture with sealant (pic is of the original oil pump for reference).

Next step is to remove any sealant and try again with the right gauge Mr gasket paper.

If this doesn't work I will try the gasket supplied with the rebuilt kit expected later this week (provided is the right thickness).

If this doesn't work I must take you up on you offer.

So close to being back on the road..

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j31/allfreetime/2012-01-16_12-05-21_164.jpg

grassisgreener
01-17-12, 02:47 PM
Dr. Menard,

What part of MA are you in?

drmenard
01-19-12, 09:45 PM
I can't send you a message... If you send me a message with you name and address I will send you a gasket... I am in Springfield...

grassisgreener
01-22-12, 03:25 PM
Dr. Menard I cannot PM you.

Please email me at rssell@hotmail.coMM. (fix the .com). My real name is Russell.

Will Deville
10-21-12, 11:53 AM
I am new to this forum and have a frozen dizzy in my 68 model 472 also. Is gaining access to the oil pump done by dropping the oil pan? Where are replacement dizzies sold? I have spent enough money on WD 40, PB Blaster and other lubricants trying to free the dizzy to buy a new one. Any advise on preventing the new dizzy from seizing up too? Any help is greatly appreciated!

steelybill
10-21-12, 11:25 PM
The oil pump is located on the outside of the engine, on the right ( passenger) side lower front corner of the block. The oil filter is mounted directly on the pump. Like mentioned above, be VERY careful not to ding the surface where the pump mounts to the block, where the gasket lays. And the gasket thickness is the other VERY important item. Measuring the gasket with a micrometer is one way to determine if it's a good one, like under '007 inch thick. Read the above posts before you remove the pump.

Hope this will help some !!

drmenard
10-22-12, 11:37 PM
Hi Will Deville.... If you can't get the distrubtor out of the motor this is how it can be done... The distrubtor is on a angle in front of the motor. The oil pump bolts to the outside of the block on the same plane as the distrubtor... If you take off the 5 blolts that hold the oil pump and take it off, you can hit up on the bottom of the distrubor to get it out...the oil filter is on the pump...

deVille33
10-24-12, 02:17 PM
The basic problem with these distributors is that they rarely need to be adjusted. Oil splashes upon the underside and gets baked to the lower shaft body. Some of this is also a result of owners using poor maintainence practices. End result, the shaft gets stuck in the bore. There is supposed to be a thin gasket between the bore end and the distrbutor base surface. If I don't have one, I use paper stock to replace it.
You can use a brazing tip on a acetlyne torch, or a propane torch to get below the distributor body and heat the bore boss. This may loosen the dried oil enough to start things moving. Do not heat the aluminum body of the distributor. Try twisting the distributor. Back and forth, back and forth. A strap wrench may help with this, but keep the force at right angle to the plane of the distributor.
One more trick you may try is to bump the engine. Just hit the starter a couple of quick shots without the clamp in place. The cam gear may force the distributor out of the bore. Do not hold it down as this may damage the gear.

----------


New oil pump fail. Gasket was no good. Dumped about 1/4 quart before I noticed a giant puddle. Hard to find just the gasket. So I talked Auto Zone into getting another pump and giving me the gasket.

I have one last question for the forum which I'll post tomorrow. I've been scowering my new shop manual but so far cannot find what I'm looking for.

If any fellow 68 owners need a part of the shop manual scanned I'd be happy to help.

*Also I am of course keeping the original pump. If need be it can be rebuilt and re-installed.

Anyway, here is what's left of that &%$#@ disty..

http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss148/allfreetime3/Resampled_2012-01-13_17-31-38_935.jpg


grassisgreener, I could use the broken distributor parts, if you could take the time to send them to me. I don't need the shaft, just the upper section. Will send you money order for upper housing section and shipping to 01201.

the APEMAN
01-28-13, 11:43 AM
Put my 1980 Fleetwood 2 door back on the road after dropping in a 500 I've had for years.

I tried to use the entire 368 fuel and spark calibrations for now to maximize economy.

So far it runs OK but the blasted distributor will not turn after loosening the jam nut. I had the entire engine apart in 1996. It only had about 1000 miles on it since freshening up the internals.

RRRRR.

Been here before and it was not pretty.

The Ape Man
02-02-13, 01:58 PM
I win I win. It got pretty ugly though. Took the car for an hour ride and warmed it up.

Had to rip off the power steering pump in order to get a 1" open end wrench on the disty shaft. Back and fourth about 25 times using leverage before it even moved one iota.

After I get it moving I sprayed CRC silicone spray all over the shaft. I believe the cooling from the CRC made it work and not the liquid itself. Still took a long time before it would move. Landed up with a lineman's hammer and an old screwdriver placed into the disty cap tang cutout for one direction and the cutout where the vacuum advance was before I removed it. Still took 5 back and fourths with CRS spray to cool off the shaft.

Took every bit of 1.5 hours to make this happen. Did this job once before by using a slide hammer. All that did was break stuff faster.

I now have to recommend a warm block and cold distributor housing for this process. Not a sign of sludge of corrosion on the distributor shaft bosses where they were stuck inside the block's bores. Just some light galling from the gorilla work.

Put in a low miles distributor, set the timing by ear, adjusted it three times on a road test and the car really runs well. Now I need the posi because I can get the car rolling 15 mph and flooring it breaks the RR tire loose every time : )

Almost forgot how much fun it was having a 500 engine in a 4000 lb car. Last time I had one with an open rear axle was when my daughter was born. She's finishing grad school now......

Yeeehawwww.

cadchris
06-14-13, 09:14 PM
Just to let others know, I've come up with many different techniques to try and remove these stuck distributors. See 2nd half of post #112, and forward through that thread. I also include a link in post# 134 to a metalurgist forum for some ideas. There are additional ideas in post# 139 of writing this and possibly forward through out that thread below.......

Here's the thread:
http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/500-472-425-368/277355-472-how-boost-fuel-economy-8.html

Just trying to direct others to more current info on this subject of "Stuck Distributors". :thumbsup: