: Is your factory paint concours perfect?



M5eater
01-03-12, 07:57 PM
So... I took my Black Diamond back in May, and right away being the inch perfect and unrealstic perfectionist I am-- noticed that the door hinges and driver fender had bubbling. The hinges I had to get fixed-- rather poorly but at least it's less noticeable than bubbling paint. After a nice 7 month deal fixing the rear bumper I'm trying to live with the fender imperfections, but today I noticed that the clear is acutally flaking somewhat under the hood.

Considering the nature of this paint, I know that I will have to live with it, it is impossible to correct to the level I would be 100% happy with. However, I've never had a car with issues like this brand new from the factory. Does anyone else have very small problems like this?

Rule12b
01-03-12, 08:18 PM
HAHAHAHA! I saw the titled of this thread and starting busting up. The paint is so thin on my hood, the edges are white in spots. I could go on. Still, I've run into this on various manufacturer's cars and I'm a bit of a perfectionist so take it for what it's worth.

hulksdaddy
01-03-12, 08:28 PM
Mass produced paint jobs are hit and miss, regardless of manufacturer.

The best way to enjoy your paint is not get too close, or defocus your eyes.:lol:

Trapspeed
01-03-12, 08:36 PM
I, too, had to chuckle on this one. The paint on this car is so thin compared to the paint on my old 300 SRT-8 it's crazy. So, yeah, I feel your pain but FWIW I don't have any clear peeling...yet. I can tell you the paint on the Chrysler was heads and shoulders above this paint.

M5eater
01-03-12, 08:48 PM
thanks, it makes me feel better I'm not the only crazy person in here. I too couldn't believe how thin a 3 coat paint is.. 7.5K and I'm staring at more than 6 chips.

concorso
01-03-12, 09:11 PM
The fact that paint chips easier doesnt neccessarily mean its thin. I havent tested a V, but I have used a PTG on a new CTS a few times and paint thickness has always been within normal industry levels, somewhere between 150 and 200microns. You want show quality paint, you buy a Bentley. If you dont care about paint quality, you buy a Ferrari. Every other brand seems to fall somewhere inbetween.

EVIL_C5
01-04-12, 07:30 AM
GM will probably never make any paint job perfect off the line, they use a paint process that seems to introduce more orange peel than most finishes out there. I wet sanded my C5 and got the finish as close to perfect as i was comfortable doing. without a gauge to know how thick the paint was, it was a very risky job. but i wasnt going to spend the 2000 dollars or so for the ultrasonic gauge for composites. with the V on the other hand, the panels are mostly metal (if not all), so it would be pretty easy to get a depth gauge and smooth the finish out, but it still a very long job to do right.

https://picasaweb.google.com/briandrice/Wetsanding#

heres a side shot of the reflection before:
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-Z3sVlt39riU/SH5dD8KangI/AAAAAAAAA4M/BvMQdpK6uj8/s1152/wetsand1.jpg
and after
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-uKZ1XAi1TcM/SH5dE-4XtoI/AAAAAAAAA4U/5rpdzSIHdWg/s1152/wetsand2.jpg

to find a shop or person to do this wouldnt be cheap, I got estimates of anywhere from 1000-2500 dollars. after doing it myself, i wouldnt touch the job for less than 1500 dollars, and even that, you are working for barely more than minimum wage. given that I like driving my V so much, and the fact that if I did get the finish perfect, i would go back to the OCD that i worked so hard to get away from and probably never drive the car again. lol

even got bored and did some sanding on the wife CTS, mostly because bird crap had etched a few spots. with the metallic, when the finish is smoother, the metallic really starts to pop more. on a black diamond, im sure it would make it really pop.
https://picasaweb.google.com/briandrice/JennifersCTS#

M5eater
01-04-12, 07:38 AM
There's a TON of orange peel in the car for sure, and it dosen't help that it's diffusing all the nice metallic in the process.

I've thrown this image up here a few times, these kinds of imperfections are out of place on a 15K kia, let alone a 70K vehicle with special paint, that's what my fender looks like on the back side of the vent.. luckily it's out of sight.

http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz56/blmlozz/DSC_2380-1.jpg

EVIL_C5
01-04-12, 07:49 AM
you could always wetsand it yourself....if you are comfortable with a buffer that is. its not rocket science, and there are plenty of people out there that have documented the process pretty well. the best way to get it perfect is probably to sand the entire car down, and then respray several coats of clear, wetsanding between the coats. a concours quality finish usually costs a ton because of all the finish work that is required. a buddy checked out a place for his vette and it was in the 25K range for a show quality finish.

pmsteinm
01-04-12, 01:47 PM
I have a little bubbling under the leading edge of the hood. At VIR after a sesssion that reached 145mph I had a paint chip appear on the visible side of the hood that appears to have started from the bubbles. I know it wasn't another car because there was no one in front of me that whole session (it was a private event so there were only 5 other cars out at the time).

Otherwise my paint seems pretty good. That said is does seem to chip easier than either the 2000 STS or 2004 CTS-V I had.

GM-4-LIFE
01-04-12, 04:26 PM
My Black Diamond V Coupe was the first Black Diamond vehicle GM produced for public retail sale. It was built on February 9, 2011 and my paint all around seems to be better than any other car I have ever had. I guess it is hit and miss. I looked over the car after a coat of Zaino Z2 the other day in direct sunlight and couldn't find any imperfections inside or out or anywhere. Guess I got lucky! I am a perfectionist as well and the little things piss me off too, but this is my 27th new GM vehicle since 2000 and I can tell you that my V Coupe is by far the best GM vehicle EVER produced. They have come a VERY long way from what I am used to seeing in all my years buying GM.

cdog533
01-04-12, 05:57 PM
you could always wetsand it yourself....if you are comfortable with a buffer that is. its not rocket science, and there are plenty of people out there that have documented the process pretty well. the best way to get it perfect is probably to sand the entire car down, and then respray several coats of clear, wetsanding between the coats. a concours quality finish usually costs a ton because of all the finish work that is required. a buddy checked out a place for his vette and it was in the 25K range for a show quality finish.

Agreed, but you can just wetsand problem areas (highly orange peeled in the case of my V) without adding additional clear and get most of the orange peel out. WARNING: Wetsanding isn't really hobbyist territory. Don't do this if you don't know how. Find a really good (i.e. national reputation ) detailer with a high-tech paint gauge. You do not want to sand the clear too thin or god forbid sand through the clear.


All this being said, most people's paint is in such bad shape that any underlying defects in the paint itself are MINOR things to worry about. Most cars have horrible swirling and fine scratches that the owners don't even think about.

Before delving into wet sanding, etc. the average car likely needs a good multi-step paint correction on the vehicle (10-20 hours) and then the owner can really see what they have. Even a brand new car can take 10+ hours of correction to get right.

A car with some small paint defects will still look fantastic if the paint is properly corrected, polished, and sealed.

M5eater
01-04-12, 06:03 PM
Don't worry, I'm not even thinking about this, at all. It's a lease for one, and two, I'm not ready to spend $2-3K for a good correction until post F10 M5 and ATS-V release and I *know* I want to keep/buy her.

hulksdaddy
01-04-12, 07:10 PM
the average car likely needs a good multi-step paint correction on the vehicle (10-20 hours) and then the owner can really see what they have. Even a brand new car can take 10+ hours of correction to get right.



Agreed. I did this with my '11 Coupe. Twice.(dealership washed it after being expressly told not to). Car was blemish free, not a swirl, scratch or scuff.

But, I had at least 4 chips. On the '12, washed it with dawn, clayed it(filthy!), inspected it. Some very light swirling here and there, but the black diamond paint hides it very well. I removed a few random light scratches, put on a coat of Z5, followed by Z2, then another Z5, and called it a day. Perhaps at the end of next year I'll do a full correction, but for now, it looks great, and I can enjoy it instead of working on it.

M5eater
01-04-12, 07:15 PM
you'll find swirl spotting in Black diamond is impossible in anything except sunlight, and then only at good angles.

GM-4-LIFE
01-04-12, 07:42 PM
hulksdaddy,

Hope you used the Zaino ZFX kit, because without the ZFX, you can only put on one coat of Zaino Z2 or Z5 every 24 hours. Stuff is strong. Makes the black diamond flakes really pop. I snapped some pics of my freshly waxed black diamond in direct sunlight the other day with my Canon 60D DSLR camera and it looks amazing! Haven't had a chance to upload them so I can post them up.

Trapspeed
01-04-12, 09:09 PM
7.5K and I'm staring at more than 6 chips.
It gets worse. Trust me.

hulksdaddy
01-04-12, 11:09 PM
hulksdaddy,

Hope you used the Zaino ZFX kit, because without the ZFX, you can only put on one coat of Zaino Z2 or Z5 every 24 hours. Stuff is strong. Makes the black diamond flakes really pop. I snapped some pics of my freshly waxed black diamond in direct sunlight the other day with my Canon 60D DSLR camera and it looks amazing! Haven't had a chance to upload them so I can post them up.

Absolutely bud. Not my first rodeo. :D Had so many layers on my Z06 that the car barely fit in the garage. :lol:

GM-4-LIFE
01-05-12, 12:40 AM
Absolutely bud. Not my first rodeo. :D Had so many layers on my Z06 that the car barely fit in the garage. :lol:

LOL! A-hole!

EVIL_C5
01-05-12, 07:06 AM
you'll find swirl spotting in Black diamond is impossible in anything except sunlight, and then only at good angles.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-aqM4OB4OF_k/SIkfXi9s5AI/AAAAAAAABg0/vVjz3o6HWV4/s640/DSC04845.JPG

3m sungun will find any flaw, missmatch, etc....lol

why I felt the need to buy a 300 dollar flashlight, im still unsure.

M5eater
01-05-12, 07:59 AM
LOL.. amazon lists it for $365.. You're not crazy though.. I may pickup one if it's as good as you say it is. All I have indoors that can spot defects are the overhead fluorescents.

EVIL_C5
01-05-12, 09:20 AM
LOL.. amazon lists it for $365.. You're not crazy though.. I may pickup one if it's as good as you say it is. All I have indoors that can spot defects are the overhead fluorescents.

if you are serious about buying one, I would probably sell mine as I havent used it in a very long time. it works very very well in finding defects and can even be used out in the sun unlike some other lights. it seems that the color temp is what makes it ideal for this purpose. its pretty neat to take to friends houses that think they have a flawless finish, then you pull out the heartbreaker....lol

shchow
01-05-12, 12:03 PM
The finish was the first thing on the car that I noticed to be suspect.
After a week, I found chips where you normally wouldn't see chips.
Of the cars I've had, the MB had the best exterior finish. It just "felt" thick when you washed it.

mberisha
01-05-12, 02:23 PM
Absolutely bud. Not my first rodeo. :D Had so many layers on my Z06 that the car barely fit in the garage. :lol:

I love me some Zaino!!! I know the feeling!

Here's some pics of my V1 I did a couple months ago before I put here away for the road salt infested German AutoBahns attacked her....




http://img003.picture2life.net/13679739/getattachment40aspx_document-small_medium.jpg






http://img003.picture2life.net/13679668/getattachment30aspx_document-small_medium.jpg






http://img003.picture2life.net/13679698/getattachment33aspx_document-small_medium.jpg