: Well first visit back to the dealership.....



ReaperV
12-20-11, 11:11 PM
And I'm not a happy camper.

I really thought things would go smooth with the dealership after a great buying experience, but it was not to be. So, i bought a 2009 CTS-V sedan with 16k miles. It was certified and had brand new PS2's. The rears have been wearing very unevenly, and very quickly. So with just over 3k miles and 3 moths the rears were completely bald on the outside, but normal on the inside. The fronts are perfect. No it hasn't been raced or tracked and no burnouts. I was guessing it was just the way it was until several people told me to have the alignment check, that what i was seeing was not normal. I called my dealer and they said they wanted to look at the car. I went in, they said it might be normal but that they wanted to put it up and have it checked and that if the alignment was off they would replace the tires. So far so good. I didn't demand new tires or complain at all. I took it in Last Monday morning and dropped it off. I called to check on it that afternoon and the service guy told me the rear allignment was off and he would see about the tires. OK....I told him what the sales guy and the used car manager had told me and he said he would talk with them and to Cadillac and call me back. The next morning he told me even though the alignment was off it was a used car PS2's carried no warranty. I said, ok, how much for the tires? "well seeing as how you just bought the car and the tires were new we are going to sell the tires at cost. $690 each. I said no thank you, that's nuts. look it up, tires should be $450-$480 max. "sorry sir we don't price match, thats the price". So i picked up my car. They sent me an e-mail the next day offering to match Tireracks pricing of $478, + $30 each for shipping and$15 each for mounting. I got them from Tire Kingdom of all places for $420 each....

$690? They must have thought I was an idiot.... and thats after THEY offered to replace the tires if the alignment was the issue.
Williamson Cadillac, Miami Florida.

Sorry for the long post, I needed to vent.

Presence Distribution
12-21-11, 09:14 AM
That is what the forum is for, thank you for sharing your experience!

smackdownCTSV
12-21-11, 10:03 AM
$690 each? LOL! Maybe they meant $690 for the pair?

ReaperV
12-21-11, 10:14 AM
$690 each? LOL! Maybe they meant $690 for the pair?

Now, I asked, each. We went back and forth on it for almost 2 days. They already had my car and it was much easier to have them do it, but I'm not going to let someone treat me like a fool.

Cadillac Cust Svc
12-21-11, 10:22 AM
ReaperV,
I do apologize for your experience at the dealership. If you would like to send me your contact information (name, phone number, address, email address) along with your VIN I would like to look into this further for you.
Breanne
Cadillac Customer Service

ReaperV
12-21-11, 11:01 AM
ReaperV,
I do apologize for your experience at the dealership. If you would like to send me your contact information (name, phone number, address, email address) along with your VIN I would like to look into this further for you.
Breanne
Cadillac Customer Service

Ok, I'll do that.

LV_V
12-21-11, 01:36 PM
Thankfully there are forums like this that allow for some form of accountability on part of the dealers. Sucks you got hosed by the dealer, but its NOTHING compared to what happened to me when I bought my Range Rover. Can't wait to get back into a CTS-V...

Welcome to the forums!

smackdownCTSV
12-21-11, 01:37 PM
Now, I asked, each. We went back and forth on it for almost 2 days. They already had my car and it was much easier to have them do it, but I'm not going to let someone treat me like a fool.

Yeah, that price is ridiculous. Your dealer = :suspect:

cdog533
12-21-11, 02:04 PM
3k miles of street driving and the tires are toast?

That is EXTREME wear from a severe positive camber situation with only two possible causes:

1) a poor alignment job, like really poor, way out of spec (probably from this dealership) or
2) a wreck, where the frame was affected or the rear suspension was severly affected.

Or both maybe. Has the vehicle been in a collision or accident?

anorexicpoodle
12-21-11, 05:02 PM
3k miles of street driving and the tires are toast?

That is EXTREME wear from a severe positive camber situation with only two possible causes:

1) a poor alignment job, like really poor, way out of spec (probably from this dealership) or
2) a wreck, where the frame was affected or the rear suspension was severly affected.

Or both maybe. Has the vehicle been in a collision or accident?

You wont get accelerated wear from purely camber, however camber and toe go in lockstep on a multilink suspension. If the car had positive camber AND massive toe in, then this is exactly what would develop.

This brings me to a point:

If you value your car and the way it handles, DON'T LET THE DEALER ALIGN IT. In fact don't let your local tire shop align it. To anyone that values the way their car drives, there is a night and day difference between "in spec" and "right" for the alignment. "In spec" allows a variance on camber, caster and toe, when it LEAVES the alignment rack, and that variance can produce wildly different handling, which will only worsen through use, and to say that the guys running the alignment rack at your local Firestone or Pep Boys are any better than McDonalds employees would be to speak ill of McDonalds employees.

Find a real chassis shop, someone that can align a car with string and a tape measure, and can explain polar moment of inertia (this is a great litmus test). If you are in doubt, talk to anyone you know that frequents the racetrack, they will 99% of the time have an "Alignment guy" they trust. If you enjoy "spirited" driving (translation: finding the maximum value the G meter in the dash will display), start here.

If you're In the Los Angeles area, PM me and I can give you a list of alignment guys I trust, outside of LA you're on your own.

smackdownCTSV
12-21-11, 05:14 PM
You wont get accelerated wear from purely camber, however camber and toe go in lockstep on a multilink suspension. If the car had positive camber AND massive toe in, then this is exactly what would develop.

This brings me to a point:

If you value your car and the way it handles, DON'T LET THE DEALER ALIGN IT. In fact don't let your local tire shop align it. To anyone that values the way their car drives, there is a night and day difference between "in spec" and "right" for the alignment. "In spec" allows a variance on camber, caster and toe, when it LEAVES the alignment rack, and that variance can produce wildly different handling, which will only worsen through use, and to say that the guys running the alignment rack at your local Firestone or Pep Boys are any better than McDonalds employees would be to speak ill of McDonalds employees.

Find a real chassis shop, someone that can align a car with string and a tape measure, and can explain polar moment of inertia (this is a great litmus test). If you are in doubt, talk to anyone you know that frequents the racetrack, they will 99% of the time have an "Alignment guy" they trust. If you enjoy "spirited" driving (translation: finding the maximum value the G meter in the dash will display), start here.

If you're In the Los Angeles area, PM me and I can give you a list of alignment guys I trust, outside of LA you're on your own.

Good shit. Kind of like this?

http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/7891/0607111851.jpg

anorexicpoodle
12-21-11, 05:25 PM
Good shit. Kind of like this?

http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/7891/0607111851.jpg

Yea I can only hope those were the readings on the car BEFORE it got aligned. A 0.3 degree difference in camber right to left is enormous, not to mention there simply not being enough camber.

GM specifies -0.9 degrees camber front +/- 0.6 degrees, with 0.6 degrees cross camber tolerance and 0.2 degrees total toe in the front, with -1.4 degrees +- 0.6 degrees camber rear with again 0.2 degrees toe.

So the front alignment you posted is technically "In spec" but IMO would handle like crap, and is in dire need of adjustment.

smackdownCTSV
12-21-11, 05:29 PM
Yea I can only hope those were the readings on the car BEFORE it got aligned. A 0.3 degree difference in camber right to left is enormous, not to mention there simply not being enough camber.

GM specifies -0.9 degrees camber front +/- 0.6 degrees, with 0.6 degrees cross camber tolerance and 0.2 degrees total toe in the front, with -1.4 degrees +- 0.6 degrees camber rear with again 0.2 degrees toe.

So the front alignment you posted is technically "In spec" but IMO would handle like crap, and is in dire need of adjustment.

I know. Just kind of proving his point. That was on a SRT though. Sure enough, that was after. I sent that along with my claim form since the alignment shop 1 that did the alignment didn't do anything, and that proves it, pic of "free check" from alignment shop 2.

GM-4-LIFE
12-21-11, 06:54 PM
Where is the cheapest place to get rear PS2s for our cars? I am gonna need a pair soon.

Tire Rack was JUST under $1,000.00 shipped for two.

Anyone know of a cheaper alternative?

smackdownCTSV
12-21-11, 06:59 PM
Cheaper alternative? I think the Kumho's are the cheapest at $800/set of 4, or Continental's for $1100/set of 4, but the Hankook Ventus seem to be the most popular, $1000/set of 4.

GM-4-LIFE
12-21-11, 07:30 PM
I want to stick with PS2s, just wanted to know the cheapest place shipped to my door.

smackdownCTSV
12-21-11, 07:49 PM
Shop around and compare with discount tire direct and your local tire shop.

ReaperV
12-21-11, 10:43 PM
Where is the cheapest place to get rear PS2s for our cars? I am gonna need a pair soon.

Tire Rack was JUST under $1,000.00 shipped for two.

Anyone know of a cheaper alternative?

I paid tire kingdom $954 for both rears mounted.

GM-4-LIFE
12-22-11, 12:39 AM
No Tire Kingdoms out here in L.A.

ReaperV
12-22-11, 09:20 PM
ReaperV,
I do apologize for your experience at the dealership. If you would like to send me your contact information (name, phone number, address, email address) along with your VIN I would like to look into this further for you.
Breanne
Cadillac Customer Service i can't figure out how to send a private message on this forum....

JimmyH
12-23-11, 12:08 AM
You haven't been here long enough. If you wish, you can email me your info and I will forward it to them.

http://www.cooleywire.com/jimmyh/email.gif

ReaperV
12-23-11, 08:50 AM
You haven't been here long enough. If you wish, you can email me your info and I will forward it to them.

http://www.cooleywire.com/jimmyh/email.gif
e-mail sent, Thank you

JimmyH
12-23-11, 09:57 PM
I forwarded the info to them for you.