: Cadillac NOT USING MOBIL 1 under Premium Care Maintenance Plan...did you guys know?



GM-4-LIFE
10-29-11, 01:59 AM
I took my 2011 CTS-V Coupe and my wife's 2011 Escalade ESV in for service and to my surprise, I found out that GM dealers are no longer using Mobil 1 under the 2011 and up model year Cadillac Premium Maintenance plan.

My service advisor said that GM has instructed them to use AC Delco's synthetic blend because it is more cost effective. I couldn't believe what I was hearing. I wouldn't care about the Escalade as it is equipped with a GM truck engine, but our CTS-Vs equipped with the Corvette LS3/LSA block is no longer getting Mobil 1.

Up until the 2010 model year, if you went to a Cadillac dealer, they would charge you and run Mobil 1, but looks like GM is getting cheap on us and using a synthetic blend.

Did any of you guys know this?

creed2
10-29-11, 02:03 AM
I still change my own oil changing it myself is easier then getting to a good dealer from where I live .Oil and filter from WalMart!!

Razorecko
10-29-11, 02:13 AM
Pennzoil Ultra...'nuff said. AND its GM certified

RafCon
10-29-11, 02:41 AM
I'm not advocating this, but I used to take my own oil to the shop and they'd replace my oil using it. It does suck that they aren't using Mobil1 anymore. Are you sure it isn't dealer specific?

LFTW8S
10-29-11, 03:01 AM
The oil cap says Mobile 1...I didn't let them use anything else AND I didn't pay a thing for it. Also made them use the bottled oil. Not the oil out of the barrel. You have to demand it.

jft69z
10-29-11, 04:44 AM
I still change my own oil changing it myself is easier then getting to a good dealer from where I live .Oil and filter from WalMart!!

Same here, Mobil 1 & GM filter. It cuts down on the dealer test pilots & I know exactly what is in there. Plus they go by the oil life monitor & probably wouldn't do it at the milage I want it done anyways.

BLEWBYUWIT6.2
10-29-11, 08:23 AM
my boy blew the engine in his c6 z06.... and he told me that the gm said if he didnt have mobil1 in that engine they where not covering it.....insist on mobil1 bro.....a hell of a gamble to much to lose

The Tony Show
10-29-11, 11:28 AM
The owner's manual states that the required oil is one that meets GM's new Dexos 1 standard. The syn blend used at your dealer is what came in the 2011s from the factory, and will be fine for your engine. If you choose to use another, more expensive oil like Mobil 1 or Amsoil then you'll be fine and won't run into warranty problems, as long as you choose an oil that meets or exceeds Dexos 1 standards.

From your owner's manual:

In the event that dexos-approved engine oil is not available at an oil change or for maintaining proper oil level, you may use substitute engine oil displaying the API Starburst symbol and of SAE 5W30 viscosity grade. Use of oils that do not meet the dexos specification, however, may result in reduced performance under certain circumstances.”

In accordance with the dexos 1™ specification AMSOIL Inc has redesigned their products to meet and exceed dexos 1™ requirements.

lilred
10-29-11, 12:12 PM
Pennzoil Ultra...'nuff said. AND its GM certified

While I'm a huge fan of Ultra myself (run it in my wife's 2006 V) it is not Dexos1 certified at this time. Only the Pennzoil Platinum is. The Ultra is 4718M certified.

che_socal
10-29-11, 03:52 PM
http://autos.aol.com/article/gm-engine-oil/

FLTRI
10-29-11, 05:22 PM
http://autos.aol.com/article/gm-engine-oil/

Great read, thanks for posting that...

M5eater
10-29-11, 06:45 PM
Pennzoil Ultra...'nuff said. AND its GM certified

Ultra is not Dexos 1 certified.


and for the OP, I had figured they were not using Mobil 1 from the get-go. the 2009 reorginization led to a lot of changes, you can't even buy ATF in the quart bottles anymore, along with a lot of other fluid supply changes (ie dealers now recieve motor and trans oil in 55gallon drums only)

and speaking from experience talking with people who've had first hand experience in warranty denial due to the oil, I will not be using anything other than that--dexos 1 products that is. Unfortunatly, although you are technically covered under magnasson moss, the owness is on YOU to prove the oil was not at fault, and the headache (and legal fees) are typically no-where near worth the aggervation.

There are plenty of top tier quality Dexos 1 products on even the short list that GM has, and also speaking as someone that trolls the BITOG forums, the gap between ultra-top tier and OTS regular synthetics is very small--and shrinking anymoe. After my 5 years is up, I might switch to something different, but I'm plenty worry free using Wally-world 5W30 M1 EP right now, with a good filter.

elphil
10-29-11, 07:51 PM
List of GM approved dexos1 brands: http://www.gmdexos.com/licensedbrands.html

Thrill6
10-30-11, 11:41 AM
GM's marketing deal with Mobil expired at the beginning of the year, coinciding with GM's new dexos oil standard. Another change is that GM cars that require synthetic oil no longer have a "Mobil 1" oil cap.

GM-4-LIFE
10-30-11, 12:28 PM
GM's marketing deal with Mobil expired at the beginning of the year, coinciding with GM's new dexos oil standard. Another change is that GM cars that require synthetic oil no longer have a "Mobil 1" oil cap.

Corvettes still call for Mobil 1, according to the Mobil 1 website. The 2009 and 2010 Escalades we had, were factory filled with Mobil 1, but the 2011 Escalade we have now uses the new Dexos 1 designation apparently and doesn't have a Mobil 1 oil cap like our 2009 and 2010 Escalades had. Funny thing is that my 2011 CTS-V Coupe that wasn't factory fill with Mobil 1, has the Mobil 1 oil cap. My service advisor said my car shouldn't have come from the factory with the Mobil 1 oil cap.

stabie
10-30-11, 12:49 PM
My sales guy when I bought my 11 vagon in june specifically mentioned it, so no not surprised. I fully expect other oil companies have matched Mobil 1's performance by now, so not concerned.

M5eater
10-30-11, 01:08 PM
My sales guy when I bought my 11 vagon in june specifically mentioned it, so no not surprised. I fully expect other oil companies have matched Mobil 1's performance by now, so not concerned.

I'm not sure I would go so far as to say the Dexos 1 GM stuff is as good as mobil 1.. What I would say, is that with GF-5 oils today, the sort of performance peak, and products in the ultra-top tier segment are all somewhat blending together with comparable levels of performance. Also, even conventional GF-4 oils will let engines run 150-200K usually without so much as keeping regular changes, usually with crappy $2 filters, and usually, without re-sealed engines or anything normally done to enthusiast cars. When you start using good products, filters and keep oil in the car, don't let it seep or leak out, you're almost guarenteed to have a mechanical failure due to design before you have an oil-related failure.

The real-world difference I would expect, even after 2 years of trolling BITOG, is to maybe half piston-blow by at high mileage, have a varnish free inside and maybe get 25% more life from seals by using Mobil 1 over Pennzoil Yellow Bottle. Aside from the better tempreature resistiance and lower tempreature flowing point.

concorso
10-31-11, 01:30 PM
my boy blew the engine in his c6 z06.... and he told me that the gm said if he didnt have mobil1 in that engine they where not covering it.....insist on mobil1 bro.....a hell of a gamble to much to loseThis is very wrong. That GM is giving you and your 'boy' the runaround. Its actually illegal for GM to demand a certain brand of oil, without giving it to customers for free. They can demand a certain specification, but not the brand. That would violate federal business laws.

RippyPartsDept
10-31-11, 02:00 PM
ACDelco Dexos1 doesn't cost anywhere near Mobil1
(per quart cost is a little over half price i think)

we charge flat fees for oil
$50 for M1
$30 for D1
$14 for dino

and ATF does still come in quarts #88861003

smackdownCTSV
10-31-11, 03:17 PM
This is very wrong. That GM is giving you and your 'boy' the runaround. Its actually illegal for GM to demand a certain brand of oil, without giving it to customers for free. They can demand a certain specification, but not the brand. That would violate federal business laws.

More info on this?

concorso
10-31-11, 05:01 PM
More info on this?
http://www.knfilters.com/warrantyletter.htm
http://www.syntheticoilhq.com/blog/ftc-issues-consumer-alert-on-magnuson-moss-warranty-act/
http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/keeping-your-mods-warranty-intact.html
http://www.thenextbite.com/node/19000
http://www.syntheticwarehouse.com/Warranties_Magnuson.htm

As long as the oil meets the specification that GM defines (GM4718,DEXOS1,etc), they cannot legally void warranty. If they deny warranty, they are effectively saying that they shouldnt have licensed an oil to carry their specification.

srfx69
10-31-11, 09:05 PM
i picked up my 2011 last week it has Mobil 1 cap do i require the dealer to use it?

GM-4-LIFE
11-01-11, 01:51 AM
i picked up my 2011 last week it has Mobil 1 cap do i require the dealer to use it?

My 2011 V Coupe has a Mobil 1 oil cap too, but dealer will only use what GM will pay them to use. If you want Mobil 1, chances are you will have to pay for it. Ask your dealer what they use for your car and see what they say. You can demand Mobil 1, but you may have to pay the difference between the AC Delco Synthetic blend Dexos 1 oil and Mobil 1 which is basically 100% more in cost.

muohio
11-01-11, 07:11 AM
I doubt I will have the V long enough to care if GM is using Mobile1 or Dexos 1.

RippyPartsDept
11-01-11, 10:37 AM
what's the big deal here guys?

sounds like some people are second guessing GM's lube engineers

smackdownCTSV
11-01-11, 11:07 AM
Probably because GM is cheaping out.

RippyPartsDept
11-01-11, 11:21 AM
Just because something is cheaper doesn't mean it's not good - or better

GM-4-LIFE
11-01-11, 11:24 AM
I really doubt the AC Delco Dexos 1 oil that costs half what Mobil 1 does is better. Our engines required Mobil 1 when we had to pay for it, but now that GM is paying for oil changes, they really went cheap on us. Kind of sucks if you ask me!

Life@60
11-01-11, 11:35 AM
I have a 2011 coupe and it came with the Mobil 1 cap. When I got it home I change oil and filter, Put in Mobil 1 and parted ways with the dealer changing it.

M5eater
11-01-11, 12:03 PM
Just because something is cheaper doesn't mean it's not good - or better
Saying it's better than M1 goes too far I would say, but it's certinally OK to use. I'd let GM put the stuff in a daily driver, what I wouldn't do, is go play around on a road course with it. If you believe the discussion on VOA's infact, the stuff is likely made by Conoco-Phillips or XOM anyway, both of which make high-quality oils.

The outcry here I would say, if any, is that it sort of made you felt special to see that Mobil 1 cap and know that your Car-- in particular your V-- had synthetic fluid. Now though, it's a technically worse product they're using. It's a head-game thing.

GM-4-LIFE
11-01-11, 12:42 PM
Saying it's better than M1 goes too far I would say, but it's certinally OK to use. I'd let GM put the stuff in a daily driver, what I wouldn't do, is go play around on a road course with it. If you believe the discussion on VOA's infact, the stuff is likely made by Conoco-Phillips or XOM anyway, both of which make high-quality oils.

The outcry here I would say, if any, is that it sort of made you felt special to see that Mobil 1 cap and know that your Car-- in particular your V-- had synthetic fluid. Now though, it's a technically worse product they're using. It's a head-game thing.

EXACTLY!!!! My car came from the factory with a Mobil 1 oil cap and then to hear the dealer tell me they put in AC Delco synthetic blend was very surprising. I didn't feel like a special Cadillac V-Series owner anymore. I midas well been driving an Aveo!

The Tony Show
11-01-11, 12:44 PM
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_ELFl2_1q7DI/TObn1HnV2fI/AAAAAAAAAaQ/5JkvAtpbv7k/s1600/Not_sure_if_serious.jpg

RippyPartsDept
11-01-11, 01:17 PM
You guys do know that the Mobil1 oil filler caps were advertising, right?

you didn't have to put mobil1 in there... mobil paid GM (or traded something... GM cars in their advertising?)

GM planned to switch to Dexos so they timed the deal with mobil to go right up to when the switch-over happened

to make matters a bit worse they put the mobil1 caps on some of the 2011 vehicles that weren't supposed to get those caps because of a shortage at the supplier for the dexos caps

M5eater
11-01-11, 01:37 PM
You guys do know that the Mobil1 oil filler caps were advertising, right?

you didn't have to put mobil1 in there... mobil paid GM (or traded something... GM cars in their advertising?)

GM planned to switch to Dexos so they timed the deal with mobil to go right up to when the switch-over happened

to make matters a bit worse they put the mobil1 caps on some of the 2011 vehicles that weren't supposed to get those caps because of a shortage at the supplier for the dexos caps
They didn't have to use M1, but all 4718M oils are fully synthetic products, so you were still getting a M1 equivilent product.

And in reponse to Tony, absolutely serious. I wouldn't be going out on too far a limb to say that this type of thinking about what the most cost effective solution rather than what the customer wants and what's desirable is what produced all the trash GM is best known for. Is oil selection a bit more invisible to the average consumer? Yes, but I would bet they factored in some of the outrage from the enthusiast crowd with the selection and said that the savings and license fees were worth it more. I would also bet their in-house blend has a higher profit ratio than whatever their dealers were using before- from their cheat-sheet for Oil changes, it looks like they don't take the hit on Labor, Gm pays .3-.5hours for an oil change and inspection per car. It's a win-win-win for everyone, except the 5-10% of their consumer base that acutally cares about what free oil they get. I don't like it, but it's an easy solution for me that I planned on doing anyway; my own oil changes.

smackdownCTSV
11-01-11, 01:38 PM
Just because something is cheaper doesn't mean it's not good - or better

Good. I'd hope that M1 would use the same formula when AutoZone and Advance Auto puts it on sale.

M5eater
11-01-11, 01:50 PM
Good. I'd hope that M1 would use the same formula when AutoZone and Advance Auto puts it on sale.

make sure you're checking the bottles. Places like that can sometimes stock stuff for years. The stuff I pickedup for my last OCI was still the GF-4 (ie non-dexos) formulation. GF-5 bottles will have the logo on the front. It problally doesn't matter which you choose, but if there are 6 quarts of dexos 1 right next to 6 quarts of non-dexos1...

RippyPartsDept
11-01-11, 02:42 PM
Also, mobil1 extended and/or high mileage are not GM4718M either and often if you don't carefully read the bottle label you'll find that you're buying that stuff not plain mobil1

just because an oil is fully synthetic doesn't automatically make it better than a semi-syn blend

GM-4-LIFE
11-01-11, 04:41 PM
Mobil 1 extended performance is now Dexos 1 compliant. Before, GM didn't want you using the Mobil 1 extended performance while the car was under the factory warranty. GM still puts Mobil 1 in the Corvette Grand Sport, Z06 and ZR1. That's because GM doesn't offer free maintenance like they do for 2011 and up Cadillacs. GM will recommend Mobil 1 if you have to pay for it, but will put in whatever shit they want in your car if they have to pay for it. I hate that type of thinking. Too bad Bob Lutz wasn't there when this decision was made.

M5eater
11-01-11, 05:19 PM
Also, mobil1 extended and/or high mileage are not GM4718M either and often if you don't carefully read the bottle label you'll find that you're buying that stuff not plain mobil1

just because an oil is fully synthetic doesn't automatically make it better than a semi-syn blend

Mobil 1, along with most top tier synthetics are better than the Acdelco stuff. You would have to go out of your way to find products which claim to be synthetic and perform worse than the Declo stuff more than you would run into stuff on the shelf that's synthetic and does not produce better UOA's or synthetic benchmark testing results.

concorso
11-01-11, 05:27 PM
I doubt I will have the V long enough to care if GM is using Mobile1 or Dexos 1.You are a little confused, even if it doesnt matter to you. DEXOS1 is a specification. Mobil1 is a brand.

concorso
11-01-11, 05:30 PM
Also, mobil1 extended and/or high mileage are not GM4718M either and often if you don't carefully read the bottle label you'll find that you're buying that stuff not plain mobil1

just because an oil is fully synthetic doesn't automatically make it better than a semi-syn blendMobil1 Extended still is not ok for GM4718M. Does this indicated that the GM4718M is a higher specification then DEXOS1? Or does this mean that Mobil1 simply didnt test EXTENDED for GM4718M licensing?

JimmyH
11-01-11, 05:40 PM
I am at the dealer right now getting an oil change on the camaro. Fwiw my choices were mobil1 or Valvoline synthetic. Last time I was here it was havoline or pennzoil. So in the case of my dealer I guess it depends on what they decided to buy this particular month.

muohio
11-01-11, 05:58 PM
You are a little confused, even if it doesnt matter to you. DEXOS1 is a specification. Mobil1 is a brand.

Not confused. I'm talking Mobil1 vs ACDelco Dexos1. Should have been more clear in my post.

RippyPartsDept
11-01-11, 06:36 PM
i'm not trying to say i know what oils are better than others

i doubt anyone in this thread is a lube engineer or expert (if you are please say so)

but my point is that you should trust the engineers who have staked their reputations and careers on these kinds of decisions

M5eater
11-01-11, 07:07 PM
i'm not trying to say i know what oils are better than others

i doubt anyone in this thread is a lube engineer or expert (if you are please say so)

but my point is that you should trust the engineers who have staked their reputations and careers on these kinds of decisions
Don't take this the wrong way, however, trusting that things will work out and trusting that what they're doing is the right way, bar none, is exactly why GM needed Lutz to pull them out of their sump. At the same time though, swetting the small stuff and acting on every little thing that their product reviews told them is also part of what got them into their sump.


i doubt anyone in this thread is a lube engineer or expert (if you are please say so)
I'm no engineer, but what I can say, is that VOA's and UOA's, the little story they tell(since they can't tell *everything* about an oil), typically tell that when used in extended drain intervules, offer more protection over conventional and semi-synthetics, even in daily driving situations. It *is* however, the point Bob tried to make to GM when he stepped into office however. However, as I've said before, it may not really matter, and this is more of a feel-good thing going on here, which, is irrelevent to most of the people that are recieving the product, so maybe GM is right. If I could suggest something, I would have made the suggestion for apperances sake-- to use a full synthetic product in the V2. If Vettes that cost as much as the V2 get it, why doesn't the V2? Going further than that, I'm not sure why GM is stuck on 30W oils for their 500HP engines. Infact, I don't know of any manufacture that still uses a 30W oil in any of their serious performance vehicles. I suspect that it's for simplicity's sake, just as they've tried to simplify the process by creating Dexos 1 and Dexos 2, and their own oil for everything..

but I'm just ranting now.

jft69z
11-01-11, 07:08 PM
i'm not trying to say i know what oils are better than others

but my point is that you should trust the engineers who have staked their reputations and careers on these kinds of decisions

The same GM employed engineers that are told to follow the company line of saving money from the people signing their paychecks? I'm not drinking the Kool-Aid here. I was in the chemical industry for a lot of years & now the power generating industry for about the last 10 years. In both of these industries it seems that the bean counters have the final say in quite a few of the decision making processes. It's either cut a cost here, use a cheaper material of construction there, use a low bidding vendor here, etc.

M5eater
11-01-11, 07:29 PM
The same GM employed engineers that are told to follow the company line of saving money from the people signing their paychecks? I'm not drinking the Kool-Aid here. I was in the chemical industry for a lot of years & now the power generating industry for about the last 10 years. In both of these industries it seems that the bean counters have the final say in quite a few of the decision making processes. It's either cut a cost here, use a cheaper material of construction there, use a low bidding vendor here, etc.

exactly what I would say is going on here, more specifically because of the license fees. The point here is though, maybe it's not necessary, but 556HP and a car that does the ring in 7:59 isn't exactly necessary either, so why cheap out on oil in a car where people are likely to take notice?

JimmyH
11-01-11, 08:43 PM
i'm not trying to say i know what oils are better than others

i doubt anyone in this thread is a lube engineer or expert (if you are please say so)

but my point is that you should trust the engineers who have staked their reputations and careers on these kinds of decisions

I am a lube expe.....oh, oil expert. No, nevermind.

GM-4-LIFE
11-02-11, 06:43 PM
exactly what I would say is going on here, more specifically because of the license fees. The point here is though, maybe it's not necessary, but 556HP and a car that does the ring in 7:59 isn't exactly necessary either, so why cheap out on oil in a car where people are likely to take notice?

You hit the nail on the head everytime, bud! If you put Mobil 1 in the Corvettes, why not put it in the ultra-limited production CTS-V as well? Same engine pretty much and owners of the V Series cars are a different type of car buyer. We are enthusiasts and gearheads and we pay attention to stuff like what oil goes into our cars.

Are you telling me that Chevy won't require Mobil 1 in the new ZL1 Camaro too?

M5eater
11-02-11, 08:10 PM
You hit the nail on the head everytime, bud! If you put Mobil 1 in the Corvettes, why not put it in the ultra-limited production CTS-V as well? Same engine pretty much and owners of the V Series cars are a different type of car buyer. We are enthusiasts and gearheads and we pay attention to stuff like what oil goes into our cars.

Are you telling me that Chevy won't require Mobil 1 in the new ZL1 Camaro too?
there's also the argument that the crate price of a LSA is more than a LS3(>double an LS3 infact) or LS7 ,aside from it making more power, it would make *more* sense for a LSA to get M1 than it would a vette purely from an engine perspective.

RippyPartsDept
11-02-11, 09:29 PM
are you guys sure that GM is still using Mobil1 as the factory fill for corvettes?

http://www.chevrolet.com/assets/pdf/owners/manuals/2011/2011_Corvette_Owner_Manual.pdf

see pages 10-20 and 11-6

M5eater
11-02-11, 09:50 PM
Chris 10-20 says;
''it is recommended to use Mobil 1 oils that meet the Dexos specification''

I know that my V2 manual does not have that text, however, I would hope they're not trying this with the vette owners. Here's a thought though; do BMW and Mercedes offer synthetic changes for their included maintenance? I'm pretty sure Most M engines use a very expensive Castrol 10W60, so I'll let someone else dig up that information.

che_socal
11-03-11, 01:44 AM
The 2012 manual says (on page 11-13): "Use only engine oil licensed to the dexos1 specfication, or equivalent, of the proper SAE viscosity grade. ACDelco dexos1 Synthetic Blend is recommended. See Engine Oil on page 10‑10."

It really doesn't get much more clear than this.

M5eater
11-03-11, 07:24 AM
The 2012 manual says (on page 11-13): "Use only engine oil licensed to the dexos1 specfication, or equivalent, of the proper SAE viscosity grade. ACDelco dexos1 Synthetic Blend is recommended. See Engine Oil on page 10‑10."

It really doesn't get much more clear than this.

we know they're using ACdelco stuff, that's the whole discussion.

RippyPartsDept
11-03-11, 09:56 AM
i get your point, and maybe the sole reason they switched the cadillacs to acdleco dexos1 was due to the free maintenance (so they could 'cheap out')
i'm not going to deny that cost was a factor in that decision, but to say that it's wrong or a bad for the engine is going too far
the engineers are clearly happy with any dexos oil in these engines (corvettes too)

M5eater
11-03-11, 10:17 AM
i get your point, and maybe the sole reason they switched the cadillacs to acdleco dexos1 was due to the free maintenance (so they could 'cheap out')
i'm not going to deny that cost was a factor in that decision, but to say that it's wrong or a bad for the engine is going too far
the engineers are clearly happy with any dexos oil in these engines (corvettes too)

Right, and I'm in agreement for most people, it's not going to matter(and those it does matter, are likely warranty-voiders anyway), you'd have to drive the car pretty hard regularly, and we all know that just doesn't happen, a good romp once a day isn't rough by any measurable standard... What I can understand, is that there's no excess spending on a vehicle who's complete intention from the beginning is excess. It's one thing on a SRX, DTS, STS or regular CTS, but on your flagship vehicle?...

The Tony Show
11-03-11, 10:26 AM
If you're fine with the OEM recommended Dexos, get your free oil change. If not, grab a few 4 quart jugs of Mobil1 at Wal-Mart and take those in with you to the dealer.

We can debate the relative merits and reasons why until the end of time, but that's what it boils down to. If you don't trust the Dexos, buy Mobil1. Problem solved.

RippyPartsDept
11-03-11, 10:35 AM
If you're fine with the OEM recommended Dexos, get your free oil change. If not, grab a few 4 quart jugs of Mobil1 at Wal-Mart and take those in with you to the dealer.

We can debate the relative merits and reasons why until the end of time, but that's what it boils down to. If you don't trust the Dexos, buy Mobil1. Problem solved.

i'm just beginning to understand that for some people this isn't the issue ... M5eater summed up the sentiment pretty well


What I can understand, is that there's no excess spending on a vehicle who's complete intention from the beginning is excess.

this is a more complex issue than I initially thought - less to do with logic and more to do with emotion

Rock1
11-03-11, 10:38 AM
This has been a very good disscussion on engine oil used in the V, I am very preferable to what oil I use in all my cars from my GTO,as well as my AMG. With that I asked my dealer what oil will be used to maintain my V with the service plan and he said the "new" Dex oil from GM he claimed it was going to be the standard etc (as we have all read already in this discussion), I then raised the arguement as to why the V and not the Vette, ZL1 etc. as well as the why the change in oil just for the V? I mentioned that this is leading me to believe that if you pick the "free" service you dont seem to get the same quality oil. Now though you (as well as GM) claim that this is "better" then the mobil 1 then why is it not used on their other hi performance line (ie Z06, ZR1, ZL1, Camaro SS etc). I also said that my oil cap specifically says Mobil 1. He then said if my cap says Mobil 1 you will get Mobil 1 no questions, but know that the "new" caps will specify the new blend.

M5eater
11-03-11, 10:49 AM
this is a more complex issue than I initially thought - less to do with logic and more to do with emotion

Exactly. New car purchases are almost entirely emotional impulse buys, so is the ownership afterwards. If people wanted simple reliable transportation, any 2 year old used car could satisify that need, but you didn't buy some Lexus GS, you bought a CTS-V.

Re-itterating what I hinted on a few posts ago; part of GM's problem in the past was that they were so internally focused on cost savings and trying to determine through some rational sequence of spreadsheets, specifications, rules and proceeces to figure out what customers needed and then create a product around that versus what they should have been doing like they did back in the 50s and 60s-- making something which people went WOW and fell in love with and *then* create a car around that idea, and if it voilates GM specification 456481, or it goes overbudget

Putting semi-synthetic in a Corvette and CTS-V smacks of this mediocrity. It might not really matter, it might not show-up on customer requested improvements forums, but it doesn't make me go "cool! They're filling my car with some AcDelco Dexos 1 synthetic blend!" it makes me go '' oh, well at least it's a free oil change '' or worse as in this thread's case "why aern't they using Mobil 1 like they did in the past? "

I the grand scheme of things, you're not going to win people over by keeping up, you've got to exceed expectations. If it really came down to it-- the V2 is already 30 grand under it's competition, couldn't they just jack the invoice up a few hundred for the synthetic oil?

RippyPartsDept
11-03-11, 11:01 AM
mobil1 was 'recommended' over other brands in the owners manuals and got an advertisement on the caps of many GM vehicles

since 2011 GM has been 'recommending' their own ACDelco Dexos1 oil in many of the vehicles (all 2011+ cadillacs for instance)
the corvette owners manual still 'recommends' a dexos spec'd version of Mobil1 but says that any dexos oil is fine.

i'm not saying that ACDelco Dexos1 is better than Mobil1 but if the engineers say it's good and recommended for a certain engine that you should believe them

part of the confusion my stem from the dexos oil specification and the Dexos branded oils ... notice the capitalization

RippyPartsDept
11-03-11, 11:16 AM
"why aern't they using Mobil 1 like they did in the past? "

in the past there was no dexos specification ... they were using the GM4718M specification and had the advertising on the oil caps for mobil1 which gave the consumer the idea that mobil1 was required... i bet that worked out well for exxonmobil

so mobil1 became the standard but it was overkill (which is why they came up with the dexos spec)
it was costing the consumers money needlessly - the number of times i've heard groans and complaints about having to pay for mobil1 and threads about sales on mobil1 - it was getting a bit tiresome

now that GM is trying to save you money (and themselves since they're buying the first 50k of oil changes) the other group of owners is saying that they should have stuck with the overkill of Mobil1

this is Cadillacs pickle that they're in right now

they're priced as budget/mid luxury but want to be high/ultra luxury and their customers are split between those two groups
when they do something to please one group the other takes it as an affront

personally, i think they're doing a good job of walking this fine line (and that they are creating WOW vehicles) ... but that's just me

M5eater
11-03-11, 11:28 AM
they're priced as budget/mid luxury but want to be high/ultra luxury and their customers are split between those two groups
when they do something to please one group the other takes it as an affront

personally, i think they're doing a good job of walking this fine line (and that they are creating WOW vehicles) ... but that's just me

I would have to agree based on that assesment, you will never please everyone, ever. If you don't complain about things you dislike though, nothing gets done.

JimmyH
11-03-11, 01:31 PM
From GM's point of view, the cost savings makes sense. The $5-$10 cost savings may not be justified in the eyes of a few hardcore owners (who are just likely to buy their next $60k-$100k premium car from BMW or Lexus regardless of whether or not they are happy with GM) But it's justified to GM who is saving $5-$10 x 100000 or so cars, 99% of whose owners don't care.

M5eater
11-03-11, 01:38 PM
From GM's point of view, the cost savings makes sense. The $5-$10 cost savings may not be justified in the eyes of a few hardcore owners (who are just likely to buy their next $60k-$100k premium car from BMW or Lexus regardless of whether or not they are happy with GM) But it's justified to GM who is saving $5-$10 x 100000 or so cars, 99% of whose owners don't care.

I can understand it from that point of view, however, how much realistic extra cost are we talking about if they did it solely for the V's? Product numbers are low, and the OLM lets you do 8-10K OCI's anyway, so it's not as if GM is paying for more than 7 oil changes or so, and since your product is so much cheaper than the competition, you could meld it into the MSRP without people even taking notice beyond the increase which happens every new MY anyway. Again, I agree that ultimately, the critisims of a small portion of your base isn't necessarly something to be acted upon, I would estimate it's more than 1% of V owners realisticly however, and to say nothing about the topic is worse than to say something negative imo.

JimmyH
11-03-11, 01:41 PM
doesn't cadillac have premium care on their entire lineup? I was thinking of it from that perspective.

smackdownCTSV
11-03-11, 01:52 PM
Doesn't the regular CTS take synthetic as well? Regardless, Cadillac/GM is using the cheap oil to save money. Plain and simple!

M5eater
11-03-11, 02:04 PM
doesn't cadillac have premium care on their entire lineup? I was thinking of it from that perspective.
They do. My question earlier for Mercedes and BMW was directed at this line of thinking; If the object was to offer comparable service, Does the E90/E92 M3 and Merc AMG lineup use synthetic products in their free mantiance program-- do they offer mantiance for these cars at all-- do they offer oil changes? Does the IS-F offer it? I know both of them offer extended mantiance programs well into 6years/100K--- do you have to purchase that in order to get the better oil?


Also as I asked, I know most M engines use a very specific Castrol 10W60 which was desgned, specificlly for BMW's engines, and it's expensive, to the tune of $13/quart and you need ~ 10quarts.

RippyPartsDept
11-03-11, 02:07 PM
yes... M5eater is talking about keeping m1 on just the Vs though

and by the way our Dexos truck just came by and apparently there's a shortage right now ... something to do with how it's testing
apparently GM wanted it to test just as good as M1 but it didn't quite get there...

not sure exactly what's causing the shortage (maybe they're switching producers to one that tests better?)
not exactly sure if there truly is a shortage (i guess i'm just passing along some hearsay from a truck driver)

RippyPartsDept
11-03-11, 02:10 PM
saab has offered free maintenance for a long time just like cadillac now does

they use 0w40 M1 (at least that's what we use ... i'm not sure of the spec tho)

JimmyH
11-03-11, 02:14 PM
I guess I am just not that picky. They always ask me which oil I want, and I always flip a coin.

M5eater
11-03-11, 02:17 PM
saab has offered free maintenance for a long time just like cadillac now does

they use 0w40 M1 (at least that's what we use ... i'm not sure of the spec tho)

0W40 is great stuff, infact it's probally the best M1 product you can buy OTS right now. I wish I could use it in the V, as it turned the best UOA's the S4 and A4 ever had. Infact it's what she's getting after the warranty's up and I start modding.

I also know.. it's more expensive than plain 5W30 M1, at least on the retail side.

GM-4-LIFE
11-03-11, 03:02 PM
Mobil 1 at Wal-Mart and Costco doesn't seem to cost all that much. Wal-Mart even sells the AC Delco PF48 oil filters for $3.97 each.

I leased my V, but if I bought it and planned to keep it for years and years, I would be running Amsoil Signature Series 0W30. I truly believe that Amsoil oil and filters are the best products money can buy and even then, I don't think Amsoil is expensive. It's cheap insurance and Amsoil only has to be changed once per year or every 15K miles based on severe duty service like what I battle here in L.A. everyday.

I still think the CTS-V should be getting Mobil 1 under the Cadillac Premium Maintenance plan. My oil cap says Mobil 1, so it should get Mobil 1. Bottomline!

mrl859
11-03-11, 03:44 PM
Just a thought:Would they use an oil that would not hold up if they were going to stand behind the engine for 5 years/100,000 miles?

jft69z
11-03-11, 04:07 PM
Or another thought, would they (GM/dealerships) still be saying Mobil1 if they were not paying for the oil changes now (and you were)?

M5eater
11-03-11, 04:12 PM
Just a thought:Would they use an oil that would not hold up if they were going to stand behind the engine for 5 years/100,000 miles?

They've backed LS motors with that warranty for a few years now, They're still known to start burning a good amount of oil at that point..

jft69z
11-03-11, 04:25 PM
Just for grins I looked up a 2009 & 2010 CTS-V owners manual online, before the Dexos standard and the free oil changes. Here is what the manual says:

This vehicle’s engine requires a special oil meeting
GM Standard GM4718M. Oils meeting this standard
may be identified as synthetic. However, not all
synthetic oils will meet this GM standard. Use only
an oil that meets GM Standard GM4718M.

This vehicle’s engine was filled at the factory with a
Mobil 1 synthetic oil meeting all requirements for this
vehicle.

It also shows a picture of the Mobil1 oil cap in the 2009 manual as some good advertisement for Mobil1.

RippyPartsDept
11-03-11, 05:21 PM
i did a bit of research also and found that ExxonMobil has the factory fill (and dealer oil program) contract ... so apparently they are making ACDelco Dexos1
at least for the next four or five years (as the article I was reading said that they signed a 5 year deal)
... but considering that ExxonMobil has had that contract since 1991 I bet they just extend the contract when it ends

jft69z
11-03-11, 05:26 PM
i did a bit of research also and found that ExxonMobil has the factory fill (and dealer oil program) contract ... so apparently they are making ACDelco Dexos1
at least for the next four or five years (as the article I was reading said that they signed a 5 year deal)
... but considering that ExxonMobil has had that contract since 1991 I bet they just extend the contract when it ends

Pretty good scam, eh? ExxonMobile wins either way!

GM-4-LIFE
11-03-11, 05:46 PM
It may sound really stupid to you guys, but after my oil was changed, I pulled the dipstick out and smelled the oil and it smelled like Mobil 1 to me and that's why I didn't really question what they were using under the Premium Care Maintenance and being that I have the Mobil 1 oil cap on my 2011 V Coupe, I didn't even think to ask. It wasn't until AFTER the oil was changed on my wife's 2011 Escalade ESV that I noticed that the dealer put the reminder sticker on the windshield stating to change the oil in 4K miles or 4 months and that was when I questioned them and found out that my CTS-V and Escalade got the AC Delco Dexos 1 oil which I guess is still made by Mobil. Just not as high grade as Mobil 1. As hard as I drive, I feel better protected with the Mobil 1. Dealer service advisor told me that if I wanted, I could bring in Mobil 1 and they would use that, but GM would only pay for the synthetic blend AC Delco Dexos 1 oil. Funny thing is that my first GM vehicle was equipped with an LT1 back in 1995 and the dealer would ONLY put Mobil 1 in it.

Oh well...

RippyPartsDept
11-03-11, 05:58 PM
how's it a scam? GM and the customer both get to pay less for oil?

jft69z
11-03-11, 06:11 PM
More a scam in the sense that they just happen to conveniently be in the right place at the right time. I suppose you could call it good business decision making for them.

Probably not a lot different with the NAPA branded oil, it appears that it is made by Valvoline.

GM-4-LIFE
11-03-11, 06:11 PM
Yeah, but synthetic blends are cheaper than full synthetics. At Wal-Mart, they are way cheaper, so who really wins? It sounds like a scam to me. Customer has to pay for oil changes, so make them pay for Mobil 1. GM has to now pay for Cadillac oil changes, so stick em with the cheap crap and make them think they are driving a luxury car.

M5eater
11-03-11, 07:46 PM
i did a bit of research also and found that ExxonMobil has the factory fill (and dealer oil program) contract ... so apparently they are making ACDelco Dexos1
at least for the next four or five years (as the article I was reading said that they signed a 5 year deal)
... but considering that ExxonMobil has had that contract since 1991 I bet they just extend the contract when it ends

:P did you read my post in this thread?


Saying it's better than M1 goes too far I would say, but it's certinally OK to use. I'd let GM put the stuff in a daily driver, what I wouldn't do, is go play around on a road course with it. If you believe the discussion on VOA's infact, the stuff is likely made by Conoco-Phillips or XOM anyway, both of which make high-quality oils.

The outcry here I would say, if any, is that it sort of made you felt special to see that Mobil 1 cap and know that your Car-- in particular your V-- had synthetic fluid. Now though, it's a technically worse product they're using. It's a head-game thing.


Pretty good scam, eh? ExxonMobile wins either way!
I'm not seeing the scam here.. XOM has been GM's oil supplier (along with being the supplier of a lot of OEM's) for decades.

JimmyH
11-03-11, 08:37 PM
It can be said that ExxonMobile is the reason we have been getting price-gouged for the last 10 years of gasoline. I am more than ok with cutting them out of the picture.

mrl859
11-04-11, 01:05 AM
I may be wrong, but I think it's a corporate decision, not one made at the dealership level.

C66 Racing
11-06-11, 09:59 AM
The law that prevents manufacturers from tying a particular brand to a warranty is the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. There have been compliants to the FTC, primarily against GM given its aggressive marketing of its new dexos1 standard, and the FTC issued a request for comment from the industry. Valvoline, BP and many independent lubricant manufacturer groups provided comments against current practices, interestingly, the API submitted for.

Stories courtesy Lubes n' Greases:
FTC Seeks Comment on Warranty Act (http://www.imakenews.com/lng/e_article002198947.cfm?x=bjTQWHk,b8Jrvr5q)
Automakers' Warranty Ties Blasted (http://www.imakenews.com/lng/e_article002255733.cfm?x=bkcjjQd,b8Jrvr5q)

Someone mentioned above that GM4718M required an oil to be "fully synthetic". Two comments:
- GM4718M has been superceded by dexos1 though your owners manual (and my Corvette) owners manual still refer to 4718M. But that spec no longer exists.
- There is no definition of "fully synthetic".

The API has not come out and defined what is "synthetic", much less "fully synthetic", but rather, classified oils into five major groups.

Group I base oils are the least refined of all of the groups. They are usually a mix of different hydrocarbon chains with little or no uniformity. While some automotive oils use these stocks, they are generally used in less demanding applications.

Group II base oils are common in mineral based motor oils. They have fair to good performance in the areas of volatility, oxidation stability, wear prevention and flash/fire points. They have only fair performance in areas such as pour point and cold crank viscosity. Group II base stocks are what the majority of engine oils are made from. 3000 mile oil changes are the norm.

Group III base oils are subjected to the highest level of refining of all the mineral oil stocks. Although not chemically engineered, they offer improved performance in a wide range of areas as well as good molecular uniformity and stability. By definition they are considered a synthesized material and can be used in the production of synthetic and semi-synthetic lubricants. Group III is used in the vast majority of full synthetics or synthetic blends. They are superior to group I and II oils but still have limitations. Some formulations are designed for extended oil changes. Almost all off the shelf synthetics today are Group III.

Group IV are polyalphaolefins (PAO) which are a chemically engineered synthesized basestocks. PAOs offer excellent stability, molecular uniformity and performance over a wide range of lubricating properties. PAO is a much more expensive basestock than the highly refined petroleum oil basestock of Group III.

Group V base oils are also chemically engineered stocks that do not fall into any of the categories previously mentioned. Typical examples of group V stocks are Esters, polyglycols and silicone. Red Line uses an ester basestock.

In the 90s, Mobil filed suit against Castrol for falsely advertising Syntec oil as synthetic, when in fact it contained a Group III, highly hydroprocessed mineral (Dino) oil, instead of a chemically synthesized (Group IV or V) basestock. Due to the amount that the mineral oil had been chemically changed, the NAD decided in Castrol's favor. As a result, any oil containing this highly hydroprocessed mineral (Dino) oil (currently called Group III basestock by the American Petroleum Institute) can be marketed as a synthetic oil. Since the original synthetic basestock (polyalphaolefin or PAO) is much more expensive than the Group III basestock, most of the oil blenders switched to the Group III basestock, which significantly increased their profit margins.

GM4718M and dexos1 can be met by Group III synthetics.

For those interested, AMSOIL makes three tiers of synthetics, with the Signature Series being Group IV and the XL and OE being Group III - all meet dexos1.
AMSOIL Signature Series 100% Synthetic 5w30 (http://www.c66racing-synthetics.com/Product%20Bulletins/ASLPB.htm) (Product Code ASLQT)
AMSOIL XL Synthetic 5w30 (http://www.c66racing-synthetics.com/Product%20Bulletins/XLFPB.htm) (Product Code XLFQT)
AMSOIL OE Synthetic 5w30 (http://www.c66racing-synthetics.com/Product%20Bulletins/OEFPB.htm) (Product Code OEFQT)

Note that AMSOIL only recommends the top tier Signature Series for the V.
:cheers:

JimmyH
11-06-11, 02:30 PM
Fwiw I have had oil changes at several different dealers and none have even offered me this dexos oil you guys are talkin about.

M5eater
11-06-11, 07:08 PM
The law that prevents manufacturers from tying a particular brand to a warranty is the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. There have been compliants to the FTC, primarily against GM given its aggressive marketing of its new dexos1 standard, and the FTC issued a request for comment from the industry. Valvoline, BP and many independent lubricant manufacturer groups provided comments against current practices, interestingly, the API submitted for.

you may quote Magnuson-Moss if you wish, the simple fact of the matter is, when an engine failure comes up, and you present your reciptes, unless the oil used is an approved one, the ownes(ie testing, legal fees and year+ long court battle) is on YOU to provide that the failure was not an oil-related one. Unless your dealership is simply that awesome (in which case, do share) they're going to deny you right then and there until you force their hand. Honestly, between GF-5 and current top tier OTS oils , the line between botique and name brand synthetics, and even lower grade dino's is dissapearing for the drain intervilles and use people normally use.

GM-4-LIFE
11-07-11, 02:34 PM
Fwiw I have had oil changes at several different dealers and none have even offered me this dexos oil you guys are talkin about.

My dealer didn't offer me any choice. Didn't ask me if I wanted Dexos or Mobil 1. They changed my oil under the 2011 Premium Care Maintenance program. Only later I found out that they used Dexos 1 in my V Coupe and my wife's Escalade.

concorso
11-09-11, 10:54 AM
you may quote Magnuson-Moss if you wish, the simple fact of the matter is, when an engine failure comes up, and you present your reciptes, unless the oil used is an approved one, the ownes(ie testing, legal fees and year+ long court battle) is on YOU to provide that the failure was not an oil-related one. Unless your dealership is simply that awesome (in which case, do share) they're going to deny you right then and there until you force their hand. Honestly, between GF-5 and current top tier OTS oils , the line between botique and name brand synthetics, and even lower grade dino's is dissapearing for the drain intervilles and use people normally use.Unless Im reading incorrectly, that part of his post was commenting on manufacturers demanding a certain brand for a car. That is illegal and he's correct. It doesnt matter the brand at all...all that matters is if that oil is approved by GM, if its been tested for a certain spec. Use a Mobil1 product that doesnt meet that spec, and youre still screwed. Use a Penzoil that does meet that spec, then the onus is on GM to prove what you did is wrong. The other thing to remember is that the dealer simply speaks for the manufacturer, but they dont make the final decision if theres an issue. Ive had a dealership deny warranty on some issues, only to have the brand rep overturn the decision.

M5eater
11-09-11, 11:07 AM
Unless Im reading incorrectly, that part of his post was commenting on manufacturers demanding a certain brand for a car. That is illegal and he's correct. It doesnt matter the brand at all...all that matters is if that oil is approved by GM, if its been tested for a certain spec. Use a Mobil1 product that doesnt meet that spec, and youre still screwed. Use a Penzoil that does meet that spec, then the onus is on GM to prove what you did is wrong. The other thing to remember is that the dealer simply speaks for the manufacturer, but they dont make the final decision if theres an issue. Ive had a dealership deny warranty on some issues, only to have the brand rep overturn the decision.
I didn't say he was wrong, I said it's not as easy as throwing Magnason Moss in a dealerships face and GM rolling over on a $15K engine. From second-hand experience between two people, it is something that requires legal action to over-rule, and it may cost you as much as a new engine in the end for a product that may not offer much in the way of protection over what is avaliable and licensed.
What I also took from the post was-- that it's OK and you're worry free in using Any product(including Amsoil-- the one he promotes and sells) as long as it meets the specification. This is not true. As I stated before, unless it's a product that is acutally licensed (which Amsoil is not- as with all of their products) the ownes is on you to disprove the failure was an oil-related one, should the issue come up.

I'm not saying it's a bad product, but when there are products out there which offer nearly the same protection which are licensed-- why would you introduce the complication of using a non-licensed product?

The only time when Amsoil, Redline or anything better than m1 5W30 is going to provide noticeable improvements in protection is when you're modified or are a frequent SCCA / Strip racer. At that point though, you've already kissed your warranty goodbye, so it doesn't matter which oil you're using.

C66 Racing
11-11-11, 11:24 AM
On the statements above as to whether a product as to be licensed with GM to be covered by the owners manual - it does not. This is the practice that numerous lubricant companies have challenged GM on via the FTC. We'll see how this plays out.

Fully understand and concur that many (most?) will not want to deal with the ris of using a product not licensed by GM and having a potential legal battle with the dealer/GM, but the fact is they have the law on their side as long as they use any product that meets the specification of the fluid required by the owner's manual - in the current case of GM automotive oils, dexos1.

Not sure how other lubricant companies would handle that type of legal dispute, but in AMSOIL's case, their insurance agent would get involved on their customers behalf. AMSOIL does this a few times a year. Those using AMSOIL should be aware of the polices of the AMSOIL Corporate Warranty (http://www.amsoil.com/redirect.cgi?zo=1206638&page=warranty). Para 5 of the lubricants warranty covers the process, but the important detail is that the customer must notify AMSOIL and provide an 8 oz oil sample so AMSOIL has the technical information needed to prove the oil met the owner's manual requirements. The end of the para describes how the company or the insurance agent may pay the claim then may attempt to cover costs from the OEM.

This type of concern is pretty pervasive today. Below is expert from an article AMSOIL wrote a few years ago about Harley Davidson on this topic:
"Not Just Cars and Trucks
Cars and trucks aren’t the only expensive machines affected by these concerns. New snowmobiles, boats and motorcycles come with warranties very similar to automotive warranties. In fact, original equipment manufacturers (OEMs) in
these industries also promote the use of their own lubricants and create the same concerns among powersports enthusiasts. For example, a letter to the editor in the Summer 2007 issue of Harley-Davidson Enthusiast magazine asks, “Would I void the warranty if this lubricant is not specified in the H-D owner’s manual?” The editor responds by saying, “SYN3 is the only synthetic motor oil that does not impact your 24-month, unlimited mile factory warranty.”

Of course, this is untrue and would be a direct violation of the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. The next issue of Enthusiast contains a letter from another reader who corrects the editor’s response from the summer issue. The letter-
writer requests a correction if it was a misprint, or the paperwork necessary to obtain his free oil if it was not. The editor notes that the magazine received dozens of similar letters (including one from AMSOIL INC. Executive Vice
President Dean Alexander), and Enthusiast addressed the issue in an interview with Larry Gutjahr, P&A Lubricants Category Manager at Harley-Davidson. Gutjahr quickly denounces the claim that the use of other synthetic oils will
void Harley-Davidson’s warranty and explains that Harley recommends its own brand of oil because they don’t test other oils.
“No, that’s not true. We cannot and would not void a warranty for use of another brand of oil.”
-Larry Gutjahr, P&A Lubricants Category
Manager, Harley-Davidson"

M5eater
11-11-11, 12:47 PM
Not sure how other lubricant companies would handle that type of legal dispute, but in AMSOIL's case, their insurance agent would get involved on their customers behalf. AMSOIL does this a few times a year. Those using AMSOIL should be aware of the polices of the AMSOIL Corporate Warranty. Para 5 of the lubricants warranty covers the process, but the important detail is that the customer must notify AMSOIL and provide an 8 oz oil sample so AMSOIL has the technical information needed to prove the oil met the owner's manual requirements. The end of the para describes how the company or the insurance agent may pay the claim then may attempt to cover costs from the OEM.
I have never heard of this, do you have any examples that might be posted somewhere to offer? That would be incrediable of Amsoil to do on behalf of it's customers.

C66 Racing
11-12-11, 12:10 PM
I have never heard of this, do you have any examples that might be posted somewhere to offer? That would be incrediable of Amsoil to do on behalf of it's customers.

Probably not surprisingly, AMSOIL doesn't release specific examples of this type of claim, though they indirectly discuss it in much of their literature provided to dealers and customers - so I recognize my statements may be viewed as heresay. But, I offer that to my knowledge, not many lubricant companies have the type of warranty I linked above.

Here is a quote from an AMSOIL letter to dealers on warranties (I can send you a pdf of the full article it interested).
"Only if the oil is determined to be the direct cause of the engine problem can a manufacturer or dealership deny
warranty coverage for that specific problem. In this situation, the AMSOIL warranty would apply and the AMSOIL
Technical Services Department would assist you in processing your claim and in getting the vehicle repaired.
AMSOIL INC. sells millions of gallons of oil per year and warranty claims are a rare occurrence. If you ever have a
warranty problem with an automobile manufacturer or dealership, AMSOIL will assist you by analyzing the
problem and providing data supporting the fact that repairs should be made under the vehicle manufacturer's
warranty. If this does not resolve the problem, AMSOIL will submit a claim with our insurance company and
request that an adjuster have the vehicle repaired and pursue legal settlement later if necessary."

Speaking from personal experience, the 6.0L turbo-diesel in my 2003 F350 failed in 2007 due to a broken rocker arm for #1 piston. I had been using the truck to tow my Vette from 03-07 and had huge AMSOIL decals all over it. Took it to the dealership and all they asked was whether I had been changing the oil. I showed them my hand written log in my owner's manual (all AMSOIL and no receipts). They replaced the engine under warranty at no cost to me. I did get a sample of the oil in case I had to go down the AMSOIL warranty route described above - but never had to call AMSOIL has the dealership replaced the engine.

M5eater
11-12-11, 01:34 PM
Probably not surprisingly, AMSOIL doesn't release specific examples of this type of claim, though they indirectly discuss it in much of their literature provided to dealers and customers - so I recognize my statements may be viewed as heresay. But, I offer that to my knowledge, not many lubricant companies have the type of warranty I linked above.

I don't have knowledge of any lubricant company that will actively back warranty claims with products in this way. I'm not sure I'm quite convinced yet, as you stated without specific examples is a bit harder of a sell, and I currently still have another OCI of M1 EP stockpiled, but you certinally have me thinking about it again.

Thanks.

C66 Racing
11-13-11, 11:36 AM
I don't have knowledge of any lubricant company that will actively back warranty claims with products in this way. I'm not sure I'm quite convinced yet, as you stated without specific examples is a bit harder of a sell, and I currently still have another OCI of M1 EP stockpiled, but you certinally have me thinking about it again.

Thanks.

If you do decide to try AMSOIL after you run out of the M1 EP, I'm more than happy to ensure you can get it at dealer wholesale, about 25% below retail, via the AMSOIL Preferred Customer Program (http://www.c66racing-synthetics.com/Preferredcustomer.htm). Drop me a PM if interested. :cheers: