: All right, Cadillac gang.



lev
10-27-04, 10:04 PM
This is going to be a real test of how tight our Cadillac community is?

I am attending school. In one of the classes I've met a bunch of cool folks who asked me to come with them out for a drink. I was happy to oblige.

That happened little bit less then a year ago, and though the class we met in no longer, we still go out every Friday night and drink and let things go wild and silly.

One of my good friends has brought another friend to our Friday night outing. For simplicity sake and to avoid confusion, we will call them Friend1 and Friend2, respectively. Well, he started hanging out with us. We didn't have him in our class, most of us were not even aware of him, but since Friend1 decided to bring him over, we all said what the heck.

One of his traits is that he likes to challenge people. What his definition of challenging people is that he throws a controversial hot political or religious topic in a crowd of people he barely knows. Doing that is clearly asking for an argument and he arguments with screaming and tons of profanity. Honestly, it is hardly ever a sentence without an F-word.

A little aside is in order. I am sometimes insecure and do have somewhat an inferiority complex. I know that problem and fight it, with a fairly decent win-loss record :bouncy: :D . Sometimes my buddies make fun of me because I have asked some silly questions and I do not make a big deal out of it, because they laugh at me, not with me. Besides, whenever my paranoid side tells me they got something against me, I let myself know that they don't know me and thus cannot have any kind of agenda against me.

Once we all went out camping. Friend1 didn't go, couple of my other school friends went. We spent the whole day boating, catching rays, drinking beer and just having good old innocent fun. One of my friends decided to call Friend2 to come over and on a second day of a camping trip he came. What happened next is we all started talking. Topics of our conversations are the same as with any group of 20 plus olds - relaitonship, politics, religion.

He started talking about how he doesn't go to church and how he is sick of Christians showing their Jesus down everybody's throat. Then he said that all religions are the same. I replied: "Dude, let's not open that can of worms".

I immediately was asked that do I not think that all religions are the same and said no.

What I got later was a blast of an loud obsenity-peppered tirade about who the you-figure-out-what am I to judge and how I gotta be this arrogant *****. (Can we say that? :hmm: ) He was more zealous of his views then any Bible-Thumping know-it-all I have ever seen and I have seen some. Then he went: "Well, if you're Christian, why you hang with us? You clearly do not approve of what we do.."

Another little aside is in order. None of those friends are Christians. What they say I totally disagree with, but they're cool bunch of folks otherwise, so, rather, then get on my "Jesus died for your sins" bandwagon, I just nod and smile. Sometimes I say my piece, but ONLY if asked directly, which there was the case.

Now, notice. He came later on during the visit. He said from the beginnig he couldn't go and then something didn't work out and he decided to hang with us on a second day. And then he asks me why I hang with him?

The first day when Friend2 wasn't there, we were all fine. No one ever got agressive, noone ever argued or yelled or cursed, even though a lot of "immoral" things happened and I could of gone on a huge-ass moral crusade, but wish not to, as being out on a boat on the lake on Saturday is too much fun to be lecturing people.

The second day he came and you-know-what hit the fan. Only Friend 2 does it. Only he asks loaded questions and only he curses out those that disagree with him. Then he says he doesn't have a lot of friends. I don't know him that well but I can surely guess why.

Well, I got back to school. I asked everyone through e-mail what classes they have and asked everyone to reply with a history of our conversation, as sometimes they do not and I simply forget what I was talking about.
His reply was: " I thought potheads had it tough"
I replied: "What do you mean?"
He said : "What, you can't remember what you wrote?"

Here I need to remind you again, that sometimes I am indeed being insecure and overanalyze what people say as something malicious against me.

I sent everyone an explanation again why I wanted it that way. I also stressed that I am not a pothead and I am not an idiot. I was polite, used no profanity and even added a little bit of humor in the end and stressed that it is not a big deal, really

Please read the attachment to see how he answered. I hope I attached it successfully.

Now, I thought that maybe I should apologize for indeed being somewhat selfish and insecure.

But after this letter and how it was written, I honestly think I don't need to. I have too much respect for myself to even reply to that crap.

What do you think, should I apologize for being taking a joke too seriously and acting insecure?

And second question. I don't really care to hang with him because that is how he talks all the @#$@ing time, mother@#$#$, but he is almost always with my good friends from school I mentioned in the very beginning, who I am definitely interested in hanging out with as they're nothing like him. What should I do?

lev
10-27-04, 10:07 PM
Ok, here is the letter Friend2 wrote me:

you know what LEV.....F@@@ YOU.......i really am sick and tired of the rest of the group ragging on you and you thinking it is funny...................but hen I give you hard time you take it personally.......................well obviously you have a problem with me and are not going to be able to handle being my friend. So F@@@ YOU you STUPID F@@@......... seeing as I haven't whipped anyone's ass in about 6 or seven years i am sure I have a hellova alot to dish out so if you want to take your aggressions out on someone BRING IT ON....*** BOY

You so ****ing selfish and insecure. Like the reason you got into a car accident was because you THOUGHT the guy you pulled out in front of you would stop......did you ever stop and wonder what if he wasn't paying attention? What if his coffee spilled in his lap and he got distracted....HUH....DIPS@@@.

I've tried to be cool with you and your silly insecurities. I think you've lost it man. I don't think your an idiot. I don't have a problem with you. It's not like all I do is sit around and think about ways to piss you off. I rarely think about YOU, or anyone else in the group for that matter, except when you send me emails or we meet at Friday's.

I wasn't calling you a Pothead I was implying that you had short term memory problems. It was a joke.........F@@@ NUTS

But obviously you are an IDIOT or you would have gotten the little JOKE. What is also obvious, is that you have a huge problem with me and aren't going to be able to look passed yourself to deal with them. So once again if you really want to do something about it LETS. Maybe after school one day? Or maybe we'll sell tickets. Like I said I've been itching to beat the **** out of someone for a while.

Either way, this shit is going to end or one of us is going to have to stop coming around. Like I said its just as easy that I don't.

I at first wante to apologize, but after this letter, I do not think I should. Or should I?

And don't forget my second question, either.

Adam
10-27-04, 10:22 PM
hmmm. tough one. its like when you see in cartoons where there is an angel on one side and a devil on the other. the angel is telling me to forgive and forget and the devil is telling me to kick his f***ing a$$. i have a short temper so i would have probably kicked his ass but you do what you think is necessary. either hang out with him and become better friends or beat his ass into the ground and let him know that there is a God cause he is gonna be begging for his mercy. my opinion. hell if you want, ill kick his ass, send him this way.

lev
10-27-04, 10:51 PM
hmmm. tough one. its like when you see in cartoons where there is an angel on one side and a devil on the other. the angel is telling me to forgive and forget and the devil is telling me to kick his f***ing a$$. i have a short temper so i would have probably kicked his ass but you do what you think is necessary. either hang out with him and become better friends or beat his ass into the ground and let him know that there is a God cause he is gonna be begging for his mercy. my opinion. hell if you want, ill kick his ass, send him this way.

Fleetwood, understand, this is not about whether there is a God, whether he is or isn't Christian, whatever.

He reacts like this all the time. No one else ever acts like he does. I don't want to fight him:

1)I can't force myself to reply to that extremely immature letter that is actually written by an almost 30 y.o. man.

2)I don't stand a chance agaist him :histeric:

I honestly need advice. I love all my other friends from the class to death, but he is unbearable.

illumina
10-27-04, 10:54 PM
it's always "i haven't kicked anyones ass in X years" or something to that effect. hell, probably the last thing he beat the shit out of was his own -insert imagination here- !!

if you want to resolve any problems with this guy, talk to him in person...without any other people there. he probably won't be so aggressive then.

if he doesn't want to play that...wack him upside the head with a nice ball bat.

whatever happens, i hope this thing works out for you.

Vesicant
10-27-04, 10:55 PM
I think you need to talk to your friend who brought him along. He needs to talk to "Friend2" about the bs hes been pushing on you. Im not sure what hes actually trying to do... one moment its like he wants you to stay around, (which shouldnt even be happening in the first place since he cant decide that) and then the other, its like your the one who has to make the decision.

Basically hes haggling you. If your friends are really your friends, and they will support you. Tell them to get rid of him- great power comes in goups.

Addition to Christianity- Jesus "hung out" with sinners all of the time.. its how he got to the people around him and forgave them of their sins, right then and there on the spot. If anything id hope you work with your friends to have them understand Jesus Christ and God better or atleast be somewhat of an influence. Thats all good and well, and is not bad as friend 2 sites it. You can be around anyone no matter of their beliefs. Its your decision on what you take in.

DopeStar 156
10-27-04, 11:11 PM
I would get the group's opinion on this guy and see if you can organize an overpowerment. Majority rules.

daacon
10-28-04, 01:41 AM
He's a button pusher - Emails are terrible for communication sometimes - never know how it will be read or interpreted - as metioned here

If you want to address it - talk to him - the calmer you are I'll bet the more infuriated he gets. If you are insecure - start by trying to wipe the slate clean - like say hey let's start over - (doubt that would last though) - if he starts to rattle your chain after you made the first attempt - walk away ......

On the other hand I think the guy is a dolt and I would have nothing to do with him. Be carefull on polling your friends - this is an issue between you and him - I see it as two choices - talk to him - or ignore / avoid him.

We are only hearing one side of the story here - but from this side - the guy really need to get laid :) or laid out :want: - we have a few volunteers for the later I am sure

Ralph
10-28-04, 02:00 AM
I'll shoot out some initial responses, decide if useful:

Tell him "I'll hang out with who I want, and that's none of your business."

When he starts pushing buttons asking loaded questions, say "Keep those issues to yourself, they are not things you are supposed to wear on your sleeve." Or shock him by changing the subject if he asks YOU something.

Keep your cool and don't talk to him. Or I would answer with as few words as possible, ie. yes, no, maybe, etc.

He is the one who is very childish and throwing temper tantrums. It reminds me of a child who doesn't get what they want, or never did in life. ;) I think he is the one who is insecure, and this is why he lashes out. I've known people like this on campus who join a convo just to start trouble. Often we just started to walk away one by one.

I wouldn't apologize, because you are not the one going around threatening people or swearing during what should be orderly discussions.

Ask your friends what they think of him. Tell your friends what you think? Maybe they don't want him there either but haven't admitted it yet.

danbuc
10-28-04, 02:18 AM
You seriously need to tell that guy to go F**K himself. Sounds like the kind of person who could use a good A$$WHOOPING just to knock some sense into him. I've met many people like that in my life, more than I can count( or remember). Unfortunetly, things did not go as planned when dealing with them. I personally hate to fight, moslty because I'm not very good at it. I am the kind of person though that can only take so much of that crap. In my earlier years, I was not hesitant to plant my fist square into someone's jaw if they got too out of line.:halo: I have learned over the years though, that when someone starts "bothering" me, I simply tell them to go "F**K OFF!" and then I go about my business. If I were you, I would tell that guy to move to Utah, so the Mormons can kick his a$$ instead! That ought to shut him up. If that doesn't work, you can always just punch him in the face, REALLY, REALLY HARD! :D

Good luck

D148L0
10-28-04, 10:48 AM
Ask yourself: What Would Jebus Do?

And then follow Ralph's suggestions.
I though I was reading a teenager tale... jeez.

Elvis
10-28-04, 05:10 PM
He's a button pusher

Yep.

Don't apologize. You made yourself clear.

If he shows up with "the group" just leave. One of the hardest things to do is to be strong enough to walk away from "the group" for whatever reason.

I think you'll find that you aren't the only one who feels this way about Friend #2, you're just the only one willing to stand up and say something about it.

Be bigger than he is. It shouldn't be hard.

lev
10-28-04, 06:50 PM
Thank you, Ralph, Elvis, everybody for reading this long-ass post and giving me some advice.

I was wishy-washy but now I will do exactly what most of you said to do. I will have to tell the group to choose me or choose him.

And yes, it will be an unpleasant loss, if they pick him, but a loss I will have to accept.

:drinker :drinker :drinker :drinker

Ralph
10-28-04, 07:10 PM
Thank you, Ralph, Elvis, everybody for reading this long-ass post and giving me some advice.

I was wishy-washy but now I will do exactly what most of you said to do. I will have to tell the group to choose me or choose him.

And yes, it will be an unpleasant loss, if they pick him, but a loss I will have to accept.

:drinker :drinker :drinker :drinker

Everyone had great advice! I'm sure that if you make them choose, they will choose you. You have a history with them, have known them a lot longer, have similar interests, etc. I can't see them wanting to lose you over that dumba$$! Keep your cool because it sounds like he likes fighting and confrontation.

Anyway, if that doesn't work you can just punch him in the face and walk away! :canttalk:

D148L0
10-28-04, 08:16 PM
Anyway, if that doesn't work you can just punch him in the face and walk away! :canttalk:
What kind of advice is that? Bad Ralphie, bad!
IF Lev punches him in the face and walks away, the other guy can get up and punch him from behind. Lev, punch him in the face, then the stomach, and when he is in the floor add a couple of kicks to the ribs. Make sure to add a final blow to a knee. :D

lev
10-28-04, 08:27 PM
What kind of advice is that? Bad Ralphie, bad!
IF Lev punches him in the face and walks away, the other guy can get up and punch him from behind. Lev, punch him in the face, then the stomach, and when he is in the floor add a couple of kicks to the ribs. Make sure to add a final blow to a knee. :D

Then pull out a gun.

And shoot him.

In the head.

Twice.

That way he will definitely never come back. Oversized garbage bag anyone? :shhh:

Ralph
10-28-04, 08:49 PM
What kind of advice is that? Bad Ralphie, bad!

Just trying to fit in with all you violent Americans. :thumbsup: :yup:

I know what I'm talking about. I just bought a copy of Bowling.... by that Moore fellow. :D

Not to self: buy some more eggs for my enemy neighbour. :hmm:

Adam
10-28-04, 09:38 PM
Then pull out a gun.

And shoot him.

In the head.

Twice.

That way he will definitely never come back. Oversized garbage bag anyone? :shhh:

now thats what im talking about. i could probably get you a body bag from the hospital. j/k :D

evilrussian
10-28-04, 09:58 PM
Then pull out a gun.

And shoot him.

In the head.

Twice.

That way he will definitely never come back. Oversized garbage bag anyone? :shhh:

Bring a gun and make sure it's not loaded. Cock it stick it in his face and pull the trigger (betcha he'll pee his pants). Then slap him with a barrel and knock his teeth out, start kicking him untill he is on the ground and then just piss on his face! Haha j/k this will sure get you in jail. Hey, just ignore the bastard, stop talking to the m@th3rf*ck3r. :yup:

barge master
10-29-04, 06:44 AM
Sounds like you ran across a tormented freak Lev. I'd agree with these guys, stand your ground, but don't play into his B/S. He's a windbag who's no doubt a slave to his own insecurities, and his attitude is how he tries to hide it and divert peoples attention from the things he's afraid to reveal. He's trying to bait you, because he's come to the conclusion you're an easy mark. I learned a long time ago to spot people like that a mile away. I like to let them talk about their favorite subject {themselves}. By doing so, I observe their soft spots, and usually they can be played like a violin when they realize I won't be provoked or steered by them. :sneaky:

65calais1
10-29-04, 03:46 PM
I was in a setuation familiar, but different, gonna tell you about it. Friend 1 was the one I hung with, friend 2 was his friend. What happend though was friend 1 was talking about friend 2, then telling him I was talking about him, which I wasn't, I hardly know him. I told him I never said a word about him, and I didnt have no problem with him.
Well time went on, and friend 2 got crapier and crapier with me, smarting me off, saying he was gonna hit my 4-wheeler, and making fun of me on the CB radio. So one day he, and a bunch of people were hanging out, and me and friend 1 went past, so he decides to rise his middle finger up.
I didn't see it though, but friend 1 got on the definsive and thought he was the one being poped off and said i'm gonna get him on the CB and ask him which one of us he was flipping off, of course he said that was ment for me. I got on the radio, and asked him what his problem was, and a few choice words. He said I did that to **** you off and it worked. But ole friend 1 that was mad before thinks this is alright now.
So I hope on my bike and go where we first seen him, get there, and they say he's on his way to friend ones. So I head back there, what out there. He just kept running his mouth, then I finally had enough, I just shoved hom real hard again his truck, then he starts boohooing around, and friend 1 moreless said I didn't like what I did, but one thing ole friend 2 never said anything smart to me again, and I didn't have anything to do with ole troublemaker friend 1 much longer.
Now that i'm more mature though I probably wouldn't shoved friend 2, and would have had nothing to do any of them any longer.
My advice to you is if your friends are genuaine and true "something hard to find" then hang out with them when ole friend 2 isn't there, but if he is leave or dont go, and I wouldnt have much or anything to do with him. If your friends are like my friend 1 dont have anything to do with any of them.

lev
10-29-04, 07:28 PM
I sent Friend1 letter with only one word at heading

Apologize.

Read his reply and tell me what you think.

I am not going to apologize for anything. You are very insecure and I am sorry that you do not like me for whatever the reason is. It is obvious and I don't want to deal with it anymore. I hate drama. I can't stand misunderstandings. I'm not an ass kisser and I don't want to deal with this anymore. You should start saving all of the emails the gang sends you and see who is giving you a hard time. You should get over whatever it is you have against me as the entire group consistantly overlooks your short comings.

If you are apologizing to me, I don't know how long it is going to take for me to let this one slide. After the last time you let everything get bottled up inside and sent me that email that blasted me and most of your facts were jumbled, I tried to tell you that I do not have a problem with you. However, it is quite obvious that you have a problem with me since you can't seem to get over anything I say. You do and say some of the craziest most f---ed up things and I never say anything about them. The rest of the group gives you a hard time at onset. Then I paid part of your ticket to 6 flags. I thought that was the end and you and me were cool. But I guess I was wrong. Either your jealous, hateful, insecure, or just plain ****ed. Either way I don't want to be around you for a while

That's after his initial reply.

By the way the first email he talks about is the one where I confronted him on how he behaved at the camping trip. You remember, I mentioned it in the letter.

Anywho, I am done talking about this. I will follow through your advice.

majax
10-29-04, 07:43 PM
I guess its to late to say my opinion lol,

good luck! :thumbsup:

Rolex
10-30-04, 11:03 AM
I think its weak that you guys are bantering back and forth via email. Meet face-to-face and work it out like real living and breathing people (I'm not implying violence). This guy obviously has your number. I believe he's probably a tough-talking, insecure, windbag pu$$y who wouldn't do anything if a real man got up in his face. He's only pestering you because he knows you won't put your foot up his a$$ for it.

Ralphie gave you some sound advice, after which I'll add this: stop emailing this jerk off. Either work it out in person or expect to continue putting up with his garbage. If he continues despite all your good efforts, that makes him an old fashon bully....you'll either have to make a stand, or learn to cope with being bullied around.

Good luck.

lev
11-20-04, 12:50 PM
We made up.

klebrun
11-20-04, 04:36 PM
We made up.

I wouldn't expect that to last too long, unless he seriously plans on changing his ways. He talks about not having many friends. You would think that in itself would be a big enough incentive for him to take a good look at himself and make some changes in how he treats people. You sound like you are being a good Christian and trying to turn the other cheek, maybe even going so far as to try to understand and help him. But he sounds like an extremist, and you will more than likely not change his mind or his ways. He is the type who expects other people to be tolerant and open minded, yet won't follow that ideology himself. His bigoted and unimformed attitude towards religion is a perfect example of this. I myself am not a religious person, but I don't lump religious extremists in with those of faith, like he does. Most non-religious people respect the beliefs of those who are religious, which from what you described, he does not. He is the one that will have to defeat his own demons. It is not your responsibility or calling in life to do it for him. You both may be getting along now, but unless he is willing to make some changes, you will find yourself back to square one. And if he ever follows through on his threats of physical violence, you could eventually find your personal safety at risk.

I understand about your insecure feelings inside. This is nothing to be ashamed of. However, he perceives it as a weakness, and he is bound to exploit it again. You are not going to solve what is going on inside of you without self respect, and you can't respect yourself if you continue to allow yourself to be treated like this. Deep down inside I think you know this, but can't find the strength to act on it. As Bo Jackson used to say, "Just Do It!". You can self analyze this to death, and that is what he is counting on. He wants you to look at where you went wrong (even if you're right), but won't accept that he may be wrong. Keep it simple. The first thing you need to do is establish some personal rules as to how you are going to LET people treat you. If someone can't treat you with respect, or can't have a discussion with you without losing it, let them know that you will not tolerate being treated like that and if they want to continue being your friend, they will have to ACT like a friend. If they can't understand this, then tell them SEE YA!! And stick with it, don't back down!!

I know this may sound like a bold move to you. The first step towards solving one's insecurities is the biggest. But get it in motion, even if at first you feel like you are just going through the motions. You have to "retrain your brain". With time though, you will wonder why you didn't do it sooner. You will be amazed at the inner strength that you really have. If your friends are true friends, they will support you in this. If they don't, then it's time to find some new friends. You will not be able to get along with everyone, no matter how nice you are. And as you have experienced, some people take advantage of other's kindness. You will always find people who you can trust and be friends with, but not as many as you would hope. Some people are just ***holes and there is nothing you are going to do to be able to change that. Remember....God grant me the serenity....well, you know the rest.

Dadillac
11-20-04, 05:20 PM
I can't believe I read this whole thread. What can I say, I am bored. This is the most juvenile crap I have encountered in a while. I would swear I was listening to my children. Part of moving past boyhood, into manhood, is becoming an independant. That doesn't mean you have to isolate yourself from everyone, but know who you are, and what you want in life. If I am to understand correctly, the characters in this plot, are late twenties, early thirties? And you guys act as preteen girls do? Oh, you hurt my feelings (said in the voice of the Diceman). Grow up, and act your age. This has nothing to do with insecurities. This has to do with maturity. Just because someone is thirty years old, doesn't mean they are thirty years mature. All, or most, of the parties involved, need to get out of high school, and into reality.

Don

klebrun
11-20-04, 05:40 PM
I can't believe I read this whole thread. What can I say, I am bored. This is the most juvenile crap I have encountered in a while. I would swear I was listening to my children. Part of moving past boyhood, into manhood, is becoming an independant. That doesn't mean you have to isolate yourself from everyone, but know who you are, and what you want in life. If I am to understand correctly, the characters in this plot, are late twenties, early thirties? And you guys act as preteen girls do? Oh, you hurt my feelings (said in the voice of the Diceman). Grow up, and act your age. This has nothing to do with insecurities. This has to do with maturity. Just because someone is thirty years old, doesn't mean they are thirty years mature. All, or most, of the parties involved, need to get out of high school, and into reality.

Don

Just because you don't struggle with insecurities doesn't mean that others don't. Insecurity doesn't have an age boundry. There are some that struggle with insecurity all of their life. That's reality.

chevyorange
11-20-04, 06:23 PM
OK, I just had to post because when I was younger, a good friend wasn't all that much better than you. He didn't believe in God and proclaimed out loud many times. I am a born and raised Lutheran and didn't argue with him about it.

Ten years later, guess who's a believer?? That's right, my buddy! We actually have talks about spirituality and religion now. It is a complete and perfect 180 of what he used to say.

He is probably more hardcore than I (which is not hardcore at all - I'm a fairly moderate to liberal Christian). I drink, swear, make fun of people. Then tell them I'm sorry and ask for forgiveness.

To cut to the chase - I agree with asking him to go out for a beer and talk it out and come to an agreement. I.E. you aren't a secure Bible thumper and do not judge anyone, including him. Put the ball in his court. If he doesn't wanna play, talk to your friends.

Just what I'd do, but I'm 31, losing my hair.

Good luck and warmest regards,

Adam :grouphug: Hahah

klebrun
11-20-04, 06:33 PM
Lev, here is a link that I hope can help you out.

http://www.counselling.cam.ac.uk/esteem.html

barge master
11-21-04, 09:45 PM
I can't believe I read this whole thread. What can I say, I am bored. This is the most juvenile crap I have encountered in a while. I would swear I was listening to my children. Part of moving past boyhood, into manhood, is becoming an independant. That doesn't mean you have to isolate yourself from everyone, but know who you are, and what you want in life. If I am to understand correctly, the characters in this plot, are late twenties, early thirties? And you guys act as preteen girls do? Oh, you hurt my feelings (said in the voice of the Diceman). Grow up, and act your age. This has nothing to do with insecurities. This has to do with maturity. Just because someone is thirty years old, doesn't mean they are thirty years mature. All, or most, of the parties involved, need to get out of high school, and into reality.

Don
You're right, it is a silly way to work out problems, but if this is where Lev is at, how's he gonna learn any differently if nobody is willing to give him advice when he asks for it?