: Lets talk oil, and Dexos 1



M5eater
09-18-11, 10:35 AM
Who here actually runs dexos 1 product in their LSA, and then worries about warranty coverage? Keeping in mind that, running a GM Dexos 1 product is not required with protection via the FTC .

clarification; not concerned with warranty coverage implies you're not modded and expect coverage.
do not plan on using power train warranty implies you're modified anyway, same for the 4th option.



I will admit, I did not understand that magnuson moss provided protection even where oil is concerned, so up until recently I had not even given a moments thought to using anything other than Mobil 1.

jzchen
09-19-11, 03:08 AM
Not sure how to answer because the manual for my 2010 says oil that meet GM4718M. Dexos didn't exist... I will definitely keep following that GM4718M spec...

M5eater
09-19-11, 08:46 AM
Not sure how to answer because the manual for my 2010 says oil that meet GM4718M. Dexos didn't exist... I will definitely keep following that GM4718M spec...

I would vote based on the assumption that 4718 is in place of Dexos.Mostly the point was that the wording in my manual suggested, that failure to use the specification will lead to a non-coverage event.. which is totally illegal . Dexos being new, has a very limited approved list (I think just Pennzoil Platinum and Mobil 1 are avaliable in most stores) 4817 has a huge licensed product list, so the poll is less relevent as there's a much larger product pool.

Razorecko
09-19-11, 10:29 AM
I only use " Pennzoil Ultra" it exceeds almost every spec oil ( like Amsoil ), BUT its GM "certified" so I wont have any weird warranty issues

M5eater
09-19-11, 10:36 AM
I only use " Pennzoil Ultra" it exceeds almost every spec oil ( like Amsoil ), BUT its GM "certified" so I wont have any weird warranty issues

Last I checked, It's not ceritifed for Dexos 1, unless you mean it's GM4817 approved? Either way, only Platinum is licensed. Although I plan on using Ultra next OCI as well. Edge however, does mention on it's bottles that it meets the performance requirements, but is again, not a licensed product.

Kluch
09-19-11, 10:44 AM
I thought dexos was a certification, because I've seen the label on Mobil 1 containers. I just use whatever they put in as part of the Cadillac premium care maintenance. They said it was the same stuff used at the factory. That's good enough for me. Especially since I lease the car.

M5eater
09-19-11, 10:52 AM
I thought dexos was a certification, because I've seen the label on Mobil 1 containers. I just use whatever they put in as part of the Cadillac premium care maintenance. They said it was the same stuff used at the factory. That's good enough for me. Especially since I lease the car.
It is a certification, that you have to pay for, it's a little tougher than GF-5.
I would bet that, given that the UOA I got back on the FF looked like the ACDelco Synthetic blend stuff and not Mobil 1, that they're using the stuff as fill on the OCI's with all 3.0/3.6 and LSA's. It's Dexos 1/ 4817 approved, so why carry 2 products anymore?

jzchen
09-19-11, 11:02 AM
I think Magnusson Moss is protection against requiring use of one specific product only. That means since there is more than one choice in this case as you pointed out, it wouldn't apply if you decided to use a non-Dexos product. I find this a very interesting point as BMW requires LL-01, which is extremely hard to find in 5W-30 form, and thus gives it away free for 4 yrs.,, (per free maintenance,) as free is the condition under Magnusson Moss. I actually didn't see dexos on Pennzoil Platinum Ultra and can't find the spec sheet on Pennoil Platinum, site say updating, but Castrol Edge claims to meet the requirements...

M5eater
09-19-11, 11:33 AM
I think Magnusson Moss is protection against requiring use of one specific product only. That means since there is more than one choice in this case as you pointed out, it wouldn't apply if you decided to use a non-Dexos product. I find this a very interesting point as BMW requires LL-01, which is extremely hard to find in 5W-30 form, and thus gives it away free for 4 yrs.,, (per free maintenance,) as free is the condition under Magnusson Moss. I actually didn't see dexos on Pennzoil Platinum Ultra and can't find the spec sheet on Pennoil Platinum, site say updating, but Castrol Edge claims to meet the requirements...

incorrect. It's covered
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/consumer/alerts/alt192.shtm

The Federal Trade Commission (FTC) recently issued a consumer alert clarifying that the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act prohibits automobile manufacturers and dealers from denying warranty coverage based on use of an aftermarket product, unless they can show the product caused the damage or was installed incorrectly.
"The FTC's statement should help those ILMA members, for example, who have decided not to license General Motors' dexos(TM) engine oil," said ILMA counsel Jeff Leiter. "Some ILMA members have complained to me that the automaker has made confusing statements about its new engine oil and warranty coverage for new vehicles. It makes sense to hand a customer a copy of the FTC consumer alert, showing that the use of equivalent products should not affect warranty coverage."

RippyPartsDept
09-19-11, 11:49 AM
The Code of Federal Regulations - 16 CFR 700.10, available at http://www.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/cfrassemble.cgi?title=200716


(a) Section 102(c) prohibits tying arrangements that condition coverage under a written warranty on the consumerís use of an article or service identified by brand, trade, or corporate name unless that article or service is provided without charge to the consumer.

All Cadillacs that require Dexos oil are covered by the service plan that takes care of the oil changes for free ... so why would you spend your own money on another oil anyway

i would think that GM could void your warranty if you put the wrong kind of oil in there... especially when they're offering to put the right stuff in there for you for free

the MMA doesn't allow you to put whatever you want in there ... the engine was designed for certain specifications of oil and if you don't put oil that meets that spec in there then you might (or will) have a problem with a warranty claim

you can debate the licensing of Dexos, but you can't put in oil that doesn't at least meet the spec and claim that the MMA affords you that option - at least i don't think it does

M5eater
09-19-11, 11:54 AM
It's not covered for free for the legnth of the powertrain warranty, the mantiance is 1 year and 50K short of the total warranty period, and totaly unavaliable to 09-10 owners, thus section 102(c) is non-applicable. Aside from the fact that, their own verbage, while confusing, specificly does not say Dexos is required for warranty coverage, but may lead to non-coverage if you do not use it. Which would happen in a perfect world if you say, use some $2 conventional or non-detergent oil certinally. The issue is, people still think they'll be denied coverage even if they're using some big-brand name synthetic that far exceeds what Dexos 1 offers-- like Amsoil-Pennzoil Ultra or Castrol Edge.

i would think that GM could void your warranty if you put the wrong kind of oil in there... especially when they're offering to put the right stuff in there for you for free

The problem is, it's not synthetic oil anymore. It's this ACDelco Blended stuff. I'd like my SBC to not start going through 1/quart of oil every 3K when it reaches 100K.

RippyPartsDept
09-19-11, 12:19 PM
http://www.gmdexos.com/

http://www.gmdexos.com/licensedbrands.html

M5eater
09-19-11, 12:30 PM
http://www.gmdexos.com/

http://www.gmdexos.com/licensedbrands.html


It is a certification, that you have to pay for, it's a little tougher than GF-5.
I would bet that, given that the UOA I got back on the FF looked like the ACDelco Synthetic blend stuff and not Mobil 1, that they're using the stuff as fill on the OCI's with all 3.0/3.6 and LSA's. It's Dexos 1/ 4817 approved, so why carry 2 products anymore?


http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2378686#Post2378686

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2314385#Post2314385

RippyPartsDept
09-19-11, 12:51 PM
http://www.amsoil.lube-direct.com/2011/04/dexos-1-amsoil-has-it/


Maybe this will clear things up a bit


“Do 2011 GM vehicle owners have to use a dexos-licensed product?” No. You can use any product that meets dexos specifications. They are not required to use a GM-licensed product. GM has chosen to grant licenses only to companies that pay them a substantial fee. Some oil companies have chosen to make a product that meets the same standards as a licensed product without adding an unnecessary administrative cost to the product that consumers would be forced to pay. So long as the oil manufacturer warrants that the motor oil meets dexos specifications, it’s acceptable to use it.

Federal law prohibits a manufacturer from requiring the use of a specific brand in order to maintain warranty coverage. The FTC recently issued a consumer alert to remind consumers that the automaker or dealer must prove a given product caused the need for repairs rather than denying warranty coverage on the basis of the product simply being used.

It is also worth noting that GM itself has acknowledged alternative engine oils may be used if dexos is unavailable. Owners manuals for 2011 GM cars state: “In the event that dexos-approved engine oil is not available at an oil change or for maintaining proper oil level, you may use substitute engine oil displaying the API Starburst symbol and of SAE 5W30 viscosity grade. Use of oils that do not meet the dexos specification, however, may result in reduced performance under certain circumstances.”

In accordance with the dexos 1™ specification AMSOIL Inc has redesigned their products to meet and exceed dexos 1™ requirements.