: 65-67 Fleetwoods



bbshriver
09-13-11, 10:24 AM
Just looking for some basic information. I'm toying with the idea of starting a special event "limo" service (mostly as a way to offset a car that I'd enjoy having anyway, and have some extra fun with it). Don't want to look into a true "stretch" limo, as I want something my family and friends can still enjoy just for fun, and also want to look in the <$10,000 range.

So far it seems like the 65-58 Cadillacs fit this (I prefer the vertical headlamps to the newer horizontal. I'd love to have a 60-62 or a 57 but prices seem to be quite a bit higher).

Does anyone have, or know where I can find a "primer" on the differences on each model year within that range?

Also, what were the various trim levels of Fleetwood. I know the series 75 was a longer wheelbase and intended as a limo, while not being a "stretch". However some of those that I have seen look like the front seat interior area is not as premium as a standard Fleetwood. Is that the case normally?
What exactly is the difference between a 75 and a standard sedan? I know the 75 is longer, but by how much? and what are the other differences?

Just looking for basic information.

Thanks!

77CDV
09-13-11, 04:41 PM
The Fleetwood series for 1965-1968 covers three subseries: the Fleetwood Series 60, the Fleetwood Eldorado, and the Fleetwood 75. Within the Series 60, there are two models, the Sixty Special and the Sixty Special Brougham. Both ride on a 133" wheelbase and have an overall length of 228". The differences between them are in trim. Broughams get rear footrests, individual rear-seat reading lamps, fold-down tray tables (66-67) or rear seat map pockets (68), and a padded halo vinyl top. The 1965 Brougham was a mid-year introduction and has only the vinyl top to differentiate it from the standard Sixty Special. The cars are otherwise identical.

The Series 75 comes as either a nine passenger sedan or as a formal limousine with a fixed divider between the front and rear compartments. In the sedan, the front compartment is usually finished in the same upholstery as the rear, while in the limousine, the front compartment is almost always black leather. The Series 75 rides on a 150" wheelbase with an overall length of 246".

The Fleetwood Eldorado is a five place coupe and likely not what you're looking for.

All Fleetwood models use the standard Cadillac engine for the year (429 for 1965-1967, 472 for 1968). The Cadillac & LaSalle Club sells authenticity manuals that go into exhaustive detail on these cars. You might also check motorera.com, which contains good basic information on the cars.

Happy hunting!

CADforce69
09-13-11, 05:42 PM
You can find some additional info here: http://automotivemileposts.com/contentscadillac.shtml at least for 1967-68.

bbshriver
09-14-11, 07:33 AM
Thanks!

Here's one that had caught my eye (I probably won't be buying anything for quite a while, so who knows what will be available when the time comes), but I think I definitely want a Brougham or 75 "sedan" I like the forward tilted headlights and rear wheel "hump" of the 67-68. Other than general "size" and "power" is there any reason the 472 is a superior engine to the 429 or vice versa?

http://www.autotraderclassics.com/classic-car/1967-Cadillac-Fleetwood-469396.xhtml?conversationId=74795

The only thing that bugs me about that car is that the interior looks really drab in the front compartment. Is that a standard Series 75 interior? Would a Brougham have a nicer interior?

CADforce69
09-14-11, 02:04 PM
Really sweet car, and price looks good!

As you can see here http://automotivemileposts.com/cadillac/cadi1967interiortrim.html front compartment is more sophisticated in the 60 special and Brougham. The 75 series were conceived to be driven by a choffeur so front seats were rather austere.

472 engine is in all aspects (Output, reliability, smoothness...) better than 429. In fact was used (evolved into the 500) until 1976, and in case you want to upgrade engine, youŽll find a lot of parts and kits for this power plant.

bbshriver
09-14-11, 02:09 PM
so generally a 68 would be the most desirable? I'm not sure about the styling changes for that year.

Is there any reason a 500 from a newer Cadillac could not be put into a 429 equipped car with relative ease?

Is there any reason "brougham" trim would not work for the front compartment of a 75S?

Bro-Ham
09-14-11, 02:14 PM
FYI, an important thing to keep in mind, the 1965 Fleetwood Seventy-Five series is IDENTICAL to the 1964 models with the exception of the wheel covers, which are identical to the other 1965 models. So, a 1965 Cadillac Limousine will not have the vertical headlights that interest you. The restyled limousine was introduced for 1966.

77CDV
09-15-11, 01:49 AM
Thanks!

Here's one that had caught my eye (I probably won't be buying anything for quite a while, so who knows what will be available when the time comes), but I think I definitely want a Brougham or 75 "sedan" I like the forward tilted headlights and rear wheel "hump" of the 67-68. Other than general "size" and "power" is there any reason the 472 is a superior engine to the 429 or vice versa?

http://www.autotraderclassics.com/classic-car/1967-Cadillac-Fleetwood-469396.xhtml?conversationId=74795

The only thing that bugs me about that car is that the interior looks really drab in the front compartment. Is that a standard Series 75 interior? Would a Brougham have a nicer interior?

The car you posted is a Series 75 sedan. The front and back seats are identical. The 75s were intended for livery and private chaffeur-driven customers, and the interiors are generally more conservative and sedate than the Sixty Special/Brougham, which is the largest of the owner-driven models. However, Cadillac would upholster a Series 75 with any of the fabric or leather choices available in a Sixty Special/Brougham (for a price, of course). Since you seem to want more interior choices, the Sixty Special/Brougham would seem to be the choice for you, unless you wanted to buy a 75 and redo the interior to your taste.

As far as engines, the 472 is much superior to the 429 in that it was designed and built to handle the increased power demands of all the optional equipment, especially air conditioning. This is a big issue with the 75s, which have two air conditioning units, one for the front and one for the rear. Owners of the 1966 cars complained that they seemed down on power, especially when optioned up. Cadillac did a temporary fix on this in 1967 by fitting the transmission with a variable pitch torque converter (the 472 wasn't quite ready for prime time), but the 472 introduced in 1968 was the real fix. As far as replacing the 429 with a 472 or 500 from a newer car, people have done it, and especially with the 1967s (which were designed originally for the 472 anyway), it's not terribly difficult. You will have to play with the later 500s (1973+) as emissions-related modifications and the switch to unleaded resulted in decreased compression and power, resulting in very leisurely performance.

425 Dual Quad
09-15-11, 05:17 AM
I've just picked up a 68 Fleetwood Sixty Special at the weekend - peachy 472 motor (better than the 429) but a plainer interior - medium blue leather. No rosewood as in the 66/ 67 models which is a shame. And the front end treatment is plainer. The front end treatment on the 66/67's are likethe 65 deVilles.
So - style - 66/7. Running, power and reliability - 68. Since you want it for promo work I'd go for a 66 or a 67, the 429 engine will be just fine.
regards, Nick

bbshriver
09-15-11, 07:36 AM
Does anyone have a link to (or personal) pictures of interiors between 66-67?

CADforce69
09-15-11, 08:08 AM
A detailed report of a '66 Sixty Special with real wood and leather interior: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cadillac-Fleetwood-FLEETWOOD-BEAUTIFUL-RARE-1966-CADILLAC-FLEETWOOD-SIXTY-SPECIAL-/140604356276?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item20bcac36b4

Surely you can find more surfing Ebay ;)

outsider
09-15-11, 09:31 AM
that's an amazing specimen! The instrument panel looks like a rocket ship compared to my 69's which has like 3 gauges. lol

CADforce69
09-15-11, 01:31 PM
The only useful gauge that '69 does not have is Temperature. I canŽt believe that they changed it for an "idiot light". Anyway, '66 panel is one of the most beautiful made by cadillac; space age style, Yeah :p

77CDV
09-16-11, 03:00 AM
Does anyone have a link to (or personal) pictures of interiors between 66-67?

http://www.lov2xlr8.no/cadillac.html

77CDV
09-16-11, 03:05 AM
I've just picked up a 68 Fleetwood Sixty Special at the weekend - peachy 472 motor (better than the 429) but a plainer interior - medium blue leather. No rosewood as in the 66/ 67 models which is a shame. And the front end treatment is plainer. The front end treatment on the 66/67's are likethe 65 deVilles.
So - style - 66/7. Running, power and reliability - 68. Since you want it for promo work I'd go for a 66 or a 67, the 429 engine will be just fine.
regards, Nick

Congrats on your purchase, Nick. I'm a little confused, though. I know the 68 Devilles with the leather interior have rosewood inserts on the door panels and on the dash. I could have sworn the same was true for the Fleetwoods, whether with leather or cloth interior. My 69 FWB has rosewood inserts on the door panels and dash, and it has a cloth interior, so I can't imagine 1968 wouldn't. 1966 is unique in the amount of wood used on the doors for the Fleetwood models, though I think it's walnut in 1966.

CADforce69
09-16-11, 06:03 AM
As I read in the book "Cadillac buyerŽs guide" by Richard Langworth, wood kept being used until 1969, though wood quality and quantity were less and less.

SDCaddyLacky
09-16-11, 10:50 AM
Personally the 69-70 Cadillac interior look extremely generic compared to the 68's. The 68's did have real rosewood trim on the door panels, I didn't like the rubbery door handles though, the older Cadillacs, like the 65-66's had metal door handles, and a better styled interior with more chrome and higher quality materials. The 429 is a great engine, so I wouldn't worry about a lack of power, but yes the 472 is a huge increase in power and torque.

Everything went to hell on the inside from 71-74, then in 75 things got better. But still not as good as the mid sixties and down Cadillacs.

Hey what year did Cadillac eliminate the rear seat foot rest and pull down tray? i just love how the old Fleetwoods had that feature! Truly classy, I wish cars today had that kind option, besides for a Rolls Royce Phantom.

77CDV
09-16-11, 10:01 PM
Rear trays were only in 1966 and 1967. Foot rests were discontinued after 1977, though they reappeared in the FWD Fleetwood Sixty Special for 1987 and 1988.

albymangled
09-17-11, 08:51 AM
I love those type 75 cars....

real classy when they're in good order...

I especially like the way the doors have the extra space for tall passengers to get in and out.

there's one for sale near me in exactly the same year / color combo as my coupe...

it's had a right hand drive conversion and is able to be used as a hire vehicle (unlike my lefty coupe)

I think just like you in relation to having a part time limo that can also give pure driving enjoyment...

it's never going to be mine, but dreams are cheap....


good luck with your ambitions.

Cadillacboy
09-17-11, 04:47 PM
Nice thread , thanks for the replies . I do like '65-68 style too . It's shame latest gen Fleetwoods didn't come with these cool fancy items such as footrest , picnic trays (Jaguar / Rolls lingo lol ) , chrome framed interior lights . Real wood is not a big deal for me , I prefer appearance first