: Where to put coolant pellets?



BlingBlingCaddy
10-26-04, 01:26 AM
Hello, I was wondering where exactly do I put in the coolant pellets. Do I put it in where I put the coolant normally--the tank? or does it have to be put in a hose as I read here? if so where exactly? thanks

haymaker
10-26-04, 02:09 AM
I think Cadillac may want you to remove the bottom radiator hose and place the pellets in that hose but I just remove the top hose and break-up the pellets beforehand then place the pieces in the top hose. Reinstall the hose, fill the overflow tank to the top with 50/50 mix and do not replace the cap. Start the engine and let it warm-up as the thermostat opens the tank may need to be refilled, if so refill to the top of the expansion tank, also make sure the heater is on and at the highest temp setting (this will make sure the heater core is completely filled during the coolant refill. Place your hand on the top radiator hose if it is very warm to the touch the system is flowing and it would be a good time to look back into the coolant expansion tank to see if you need to refill, if it is already full it may be overflowing into the expansion tanks overflow hose. If so install the expansion tanks cap and enter the driver’s side, sit on the seat and watch the temp gauge if it is at the normal reading (middle on a analog gauge) drive it around the neighborhood for fifteen minutes or so to let the broken pellets dissolve and move through the entire cooling system. Let the car set overnight and check the coolant level the next morning and refill if needed.

peteski
10-26-04, 02:36 AM
If you search the archives, this was covered many times before...

On Northstar engines you have to put the pellets in either radiator hose. The tank on Northstars is only connected to the rest of the coolent system by small hoses. Also, it is not in a direct path of circulation. If you put them in the tank, they will most likely just stay there and might even clog up the small hoses attached to the tank.

You don't have to, but crushing them before putting them in the hose is even better,
Or, just buy the Bar's Leak GOlden Seal powder instead. Then you just add the powder in.

Again, search previous posts for "coolant system" or "pellets" or similar, and you'll find lots of info. User Anthony Cipriano is our expert - read his posts.

Peteski

peteski
10-26-04, 02:40 AM
Reinstall the hose, fill the overflow tank to the top with 50/50 mix and do not replace the cap.

Haymaker:

Anthony Cipriano says that 50/50 mix might not have enough corrosion inhibotors for the aluminum engines. I think he said use at least 60% coolant 40% distilled water.

Peteski

BlingBlingCaddy
10-26-04, 05:36 PM
Thanks! so when I open the radiator hose to put in the pellets all the coolant will come out?

Also, if I wanted to drain all the coolant out what hose do I remove? Oh and where is the radiator :hide: just kidding, i'll figure it out.

BlingBlingCaddy
10-26-04, 05:47 PM
One more questions about coolant--how many of those coolant jugs (more or less) does a northstar take in order to make it 50/50--and does the brand name matter, like the yellow jug Prestone or blue jug Peak because the prices are really different. Thanks again guys. Imma drain the tank and fill her up right, the previous owner had plain ole agua in it. I got a good deal though $3,800 with 80k miles. The windows really need to be tinted though.

Gabe

haymaker
10-26-04, 08:52 PM
Gabe. I have a 97 SLS. My owner’s manual states 12.5 quarts total at 50/50 mix of Dex-cool. I don’t know which coolant your 95 STS takes. If you have the owner’s manual it will contain that information. I’m sure the information is also on one of these other threads. As to the 60/40 mix stated in the post above I don’t have any information about that. I was just basing my information on my owner’s manual. I am sure the distilled water is a good idea and I use it in my 50/50 mix of coolant but the owner’s manual doesn’t specify distilled it just states clean water. I have attached a scanned image of page 6-22 from my owner’s manual.

That is a very good price for STS.

Ranger
10-27-04, 10:30 AM
Your car uses the green coolant, any brand will do. Hopefully he did not run "plain agua" for too long. There are no corrosion inhibitors and your "good deal" might not be so good. Head gasket deterioration may be a real concern.

BlingBlingCaddy
10-27-04, 02:55 PM
Please don't scare me like that Ranger :tisk: What are the signs of a headgasket problem? Today I drove the car for 20 min and the temp reached a high of 220 when I got home--everything seems alright! I haven't taken any long trips in the car yet, like over 35-40 min, should I take a long trip somewhere n see what happens--it's hot in PR in the 90's. Thanks I'm off to sams club to buy coolant.

Pjs
10-27-04, 05:43 PM
Today I drove the car for 20 min and the temp reached a high of 220 when I got home--everything seems alright!

Your fans shouldn't even kick on till the temp reaches 223-225. My 95 SLS runs typically around 200 on warm days, 217 in stop and go. Every post I've read on here say's use a 5o/5o mix as does my owners manual. I find that the prestone 5o/50 is really the way to go as it's already pre-mixed and they used distilled water in it. I believe Anthony Cipriano stated in a post somewhere that using distilled water is the way to go because your not introducing more minerals into the cooling system .

Anthony Cipriano
10-27-04, 08:06 PM
Haymaker:

Anthony Cipriano says that 50/50 mix might not have enough corrosion inhibotors for the aluminum engines. I think he said use at least 60% coolant 40% distilled water.

Peteski


I have NEVER said to use anything other than 50/50 premix. Please amend your post and do not misquote me. 50/50 coolant/distilled water is the only mixture to use. Period. Never, ever run plain water in a cooling system especially with an aluminum engine. Corrosion is certain and internal damage to the engine and gaskets is certain.

I'd drain the entire sytem and use compressed air or the output of a shop vac to push as much coolant out as possible. Fill the system with 50/50 premix, run the engine for awhile (several days maybe) and then drain and refill again with fresh 50/50 premix. If the engine has been run on plain water it'll quickly deplete the fresh charge of coolant and render it "old" in a few days. Drain and refresh it again to have a full charge of corrosion inhibitors in the system. Also, if the engine was run on plain water it may have some aluminum oxide in it from corrosion. Adding fresh coolant may cause the aluminum oxide to particulate out and form a "gel" of sorts. That's also why you want to refill the system with fresh 50/50, run it for several days or a long trip and then drain and refill with fresh stuff again. That'll get rid of any gelling of the coolant before it gets too bad. This is also why you do not want to pour straight coolant into the system and then add water to get to 50/50. Straight coolant will gel quickly in the presence of aluminum oxide so you want to dilute it to 50/50 and then pour it in.

That car is no deal if it was run on plain water. It's really a crap shoot. Get the correct coolant in it soon.

Forget the pellets on the first fresh fill of coolant. If there's any gelling from the situation with the plain water operation then the coolant supplement particles may aggravate the situation. Run the plain 50/50 for several days and then, when you refill with fresh 50/50 the second time, add the coolant supplement pellets to the fresh coolant at the radiator hose only, not the surge tank.

It's truely amazing what some people will do to an engine.

eldorado1
10-27-04, 09:08 PM
It's truely amazing what some people will do to an engine.

I think we can both agree that once you make something idiot proof, someone will make a better idiot :thumbsup:

peteski
10-28-04, 03:27 AM
I have NEVER said to use anything other than 50/50 premix. Please amend your post and do not misquote me.

50/50 coolant/distilled water is the only mixture to use. Period.



Sorry Anthony, that was me...

Maybe I'm just getting old....
:crying2:

Now I recall why I said this: In another thread, someone wanted to use mixture with more water and less coolant because water conducts heat better. I got confused... Then you explained that a 50/50 mix is the best choice.

I can't find a way to edit my original posting.

I'm going to hide under my computer desk right now...
:hide:

Peteski

Anthony Cipriano
10-28-04, 02:32 PM
I think we can both agree that once you make something idiot proof, someone will make a better idiot :thumbsup:



Or that if you make it truely idiot proof then only idiots will use it. :drinker

BlingBlingCaddy
10-29-04, 01:22 PM
Thanks guys, I removed the water by opening the upper and lower hose and just let it gush out, I then bought 3 gallons of 50/50 Prestone and put that in along with six barsleak nuggets (I put the nuggets in the lower and some in the upper radiator hose). The results are amazing. I took a 1 hour and 45 min, drive to the beach in 95 degree weather here in PR and the temp never passed 210 both going and coming but was steady at 203-205 with the A/c on low at 75 degrees :coolgleam There was a shreaded (disconnected) cable on the left side cooling fan, the cabe was black ( there is a red and a black one) I don't know what it does but I removed it from it's housing and connected it back on with electrical tape--it looks like it was shredded by heat or something. I have been sealing wires all over with electrical tape. So everything is good for now. :)

eldorado1
10-29-04, 02:21 PM
I then bought 3 gallons of 50/50 Prestone

Sweet... but next time you can save a lot of money by buying straight coolant, and $0.50 jugs of water ;)

lets see... 3 gallons 50/50 at $5 each = $15

or:

2 gallons straight at $5 each + $1 water = $11 for 4 gallons of 50/50.

33% more for 26% less money :p

Anthony Cipriano
10-29-04, 08:15 PM
Don't forget to repeat this procedure in a few days or so of driving to make sure the system is protected and any particulates of aluminum oxide that formed from the plain water are drained and eliminated before and gelling can occur. This is important to do so that the system can recover as best as possible.

Rob Benham
10-30-04, 01:39 AM
Which way is the flow? I don’t want to let even crushed tablets go straight into the main rad. So is the top hose acceptable?

By the way, if you can’t get to a store, there’s plenty of distilled water coming out of the house A/C in the more humid states. It needs the debris from the coil and pipe filtering out however. RB

haymaker
10-30-04, 02:48 AM
It must be a lack of communication between the engineers and the people responsible for writing the owner’s manuals. As stated earlier I use distilled water in the 50/50 coolant mix. The picture I attached to an earlier post was taken directly from my 97 SLS owner’s manual. It states “clean water” for use in the coolant mix. I realize there are many people on this forum and they read the tips, advice, factual and at times nonfactual information. There is a great deal of information to read and use if needed. It would stand to reason that most Cadillac owners don’t know of this forum and simply consult their owner’s manual as to what is needed in the cooling system. Common sense as to, “clean water” will in all probability mean tap water to most owners. So based on the information in my owner’s manual that is now eight years old + or – a few months maybe the need for distilled water just wasn’t known at that time. I expect Cadillac wanted us to use and trust the printed material in the manual.

That was then and this is now October 29, 2004 and the 2005 models are being produced. Below is a partial page out of the new 2005 Owner’s manual.

Engine Coolant
The cooling system in your vehicle is filled with
DEX-COOL® engine coolant. This coolant is designed
to remain in your vehicle for 5 years or 150,000 miles
(240 000 km), whichever occurs first, if you add
only DEX-COOL® extended life coolant.
The following explains your cooling system and how to
add coolant when it is low. If you have a problem
with engine overheating, see Engine Overheating on
page 5-26.
A 50/50 mixture of clean, drinkable water and
DEX-COOL® coolant will:
• Give freezing protection down to 34°F ( 37°C).
• Give boiling protection up to 265°F (129°C).
• Protect against rust and corrosion.
• Help keep the proper engine temperature.
• Let the warning lights and gages work as
they should.
Notice: Using coolant other than DEX-COOL® may
cause premature engine, heater core or radiator
corrosion. In addition, the engine coolant may
require changing sooner, at 30,000 miles (50 000 km)
or 24 months, whichever occurs first. Any repairs
would not be covered by your warranty. Always use
DEX-COOL® (silicate-free) coolant in your vehicle.
5-23

There is a change to the new 2005 STS manual, the word drinkable has been added after the word clean (water) to be used in the 50/50 mix of coolant but still no indication or reference to distilled. The manual goes on to state this mix of coolant will (Protect against rust and corrosion). The waters appear a little clouded or at least not distilled. What are we as owners to do? Distilled or not distilled? I fully understand that distilled can and maybe qualified as clean or drinkable but in the general populous it is generally used in their irons not their cars. I wonder, who is the idiot? Looks fool proof to me!
Plain as mud, If your N* needs a little coolant added to the tank just get yourself some Dex-cool and clean, drinkable, or whatever clean drinkable water that maybe available this water can be added to complete an accepted mix to cool and not corrode your Northstar engine. If you add distilled water that maybe acceptable but only if it is drinkable and or clean water.

Look guys the Owners shouldn’t have to make this decision. If there is a problem using tap water in the Northstar the information needs to come from the top down not from the bottom up. After all, information like water travels much faster down hill.

As stated earlier in this and other posts, I agree with the distilled water to complete the 50/50coolant mix for the N*. Why add minerals to the mix if they are not needed.

Ranger
10-30-04, 10:49 AM
I don't believe there is a problem using tap water. I've used it for years til I started reading these forums. The distilled water senario is for the purist who wants to go the extra step. Much like the guy who changes oil every 3000 rather than follow the OLI. I read on a Pontiac site of a guy who changes his trans fluid every 10K. There is a guy on another Cadillac site who has a friend who won't put more than 2500 miles on a set of tires. What about the guy who swears by a certain brand of oil. Do you think he would suffer an engine failure if he used a different brand? Of course not, but you'll never convince him. I think distilled water is much the same scenario. It makes us feel better and probably does keep some impurities out of the engine but would we have a cooling system failure if we used tap water? I doubt it.

Anthony Cipriano
10-30-04, 06:00 PM
Generally speaking clean, "drinkable" water is "okay" for the cooling system but distilled water is better. There's no chance of getting minerals in the water that can deplete the corrosion inhibitor package in the coolant or cause other problems long term.

Writing owners manuals is always a problem. You don't want the owner driving the car with an empty cooling system because they can't find distilled water. Ditch water is better than no water in an emergency. But you don't want the owner servicing the system on a normal basis with ditch water. So, the best common wording is "clean, drinkable" water. If you want to do it right, however, distilled is better.

It really isn't a big deal and certainly nothing to start a range war over. Just common sense. Lots of houses outside the city have well water that can have high mineral content with calcium and iron in the water. I've seen some pretty nasty looking well water that was "drinkable" but loaded with minerals that can certainly cause problems in a cooling system over the long haul. Not knowing what people have on hand for "water" I always recommend distilled water so that there is no ambiguity. It's really easy to come by and really cheap so what's the issue with using distilled water?

Understand that the water used for cooling system fill in all GM plants is deionized water with known, tested low mineral content. It may not be "distilled" per se but is the next closest thing to it as the deionizing process removes most any and all mineral content.

There was a recent magazine article that indicated that distilled water was "deionized" so that it was a poor thing to use in cooling systems. The thought was that the distilled water would instantly grab up ions from the material in the block and head and cause them to fail. Someone failed high school chemistry. Even if the idea had ANY merit (which it doesn't) the deionized water would become saturated with metallic ions after removing about one millionth of a millionth of a millionth of an inch of metal and stop so that is pointless. The idea proposed in the article was that the "deionized" water would apparently stay deionized forever and continually erode the metal in the system until it failed. Unless, of course, the reader used the miracle "water wetter" product being pitched. :sneaky: They should not have taken the companies press release as a scientific article and printed it. None of it is true.

haymaker
10-30-04, 07:57 PM
As usual a flawless explanation in plain English. Thanks.

Quadrasteer
10-31-04, 10:17 PM
Do you reuse the factory squeeze type hose clamps or put new screw clamps on?

Anthony Cipriano
10-31-04, 10:21 PM
Do you reuse the factory squeeze type hose clamps or put new screw clamps on?


The spring loaded OEM "squeeze type" clamps are definitely superior to the screw type clamps. That's why they're used. Reuse them unless they're really damaged or screwed up.

The spring loaded clamps continue to exert pressure on the joint as the hose material takes a set with time and temp. A screw clamp can exert more pressure initially but as the hose takes a set with time and temperature the clamp load disappears and leaks can result. That's why the spring loaded clamps work better as they can "adjust" to the hose material taking a set and continue to exert clamping pressure.

peteski
11-01-04, 03:02 AM
There is a change to the new 2005 STS manual, the word drinkable has been added after the word clean (water) to be used in the 50/50 mix of coolant but still no indication or reference to distilled. The manual goes on to state this mix of coolant will (Protect against rust and corrosion). The waters appear a little clouded or at least not distilled. What are we as owners to do? Distilled or not distilled? I fully understand that distilled can and maybe qualified as clean or drinkable but in the general populous it is generally used in their irons not their cars. I wonder, who is the idiot? Looks fool proof to me!
Plain as mud, If your N* needs a little coolant added to the tank just get yourself some Dex-cool and clean, drinkable, or whatever clean drinkable water that maybe available this water can be added to complete an accepted mix to cool and not corrode your Northstar engine. If you add distilled water that maybe acceptable but only if it is drinkable and or clean water.

Look guys the Owners shouldn’t have to make this decision. If there is a problem using tap water in the Northstar the information needs to come from the top down not from the bottom up. After all, information like water travels much faster down hill.

As stated earlier in this and other posts, I agree with the distilled water to complete the 50/50coolant mix for the N*. Why add minerals to the mix if they are not needed.

When I lived in Poland in the 70s, owning a car was an extreme rarity and the car owner would do anything possible to make it last as long as possible. You might end up only owning one or two cars in your lifetiime (if you were lucky).

So to us, it was a common knowledge not to put anything else but distilled water in the cooling system. It prevented mineral buildup in the radiator.

Sure, in some rural area you could find someone using well water, but they knew that it
wasn't the best thing to do.

And, I still go by those rules (even though the manual says otherwise). There is also a great variation in mineral contents of the tap water in different parts of the world. That depends on many factors such as: the source of the water, what the water works use to treat the water, etc.

So, why take a chance - if you do it yourself, use distilled water. It isn't that expensive.

Peteski