: Winter Tires..... Michelin Pilot PA3 or Blizzak LM60



FFBOS
09-08-11, 10:46 AM
Sottozeros are backordered until 11/30/11. I'm going to need something sooner than that for our Chicago winters. Done some research on both options. They are close to
factory sizes. PA3 reviews show good dry and wet performance, but not great in the snow. LM60's reviews state good in deeper snow and feel squishy on dry and wet
pavement.

Opinions ??

smackdownCTSV
09-08-11, 05:25 PM
Depends on how often you drive in the snow vs. in the wet/dry. For snow, I'd go with the Blizzak's.

SilveRT8
09-08-11, 10:51 PM
I live in Montreal, winters are tough, I'll probably go with the Nokian R
They make it in the 255-40-19
Nokian Hakkapeliitta R, a Nordic studless winter tyre, rolls lightly, saves fuel and is both stable and accurate. As for wet grip, the new tyre takes a long leap forward. The latest studless alternative represents the Hakkapeliitta family at its purest: it is designed to function in all winter weather and extreme conditions.
Got it from this thread :
http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/2009-cadillac-cts-v-general-discussion/239164-winter-mats-tire-question-my-v.html

FFBOS
09-09-11, 05:54 PM
To the top! Need some more opinions

cruiser68
09-09-11, 05:57 PM
I opted for the Blizzaks for Chicago winters. Haven't driven on them yet so no real opinion on them but the research I did say they should be great.

baabootoo
09-09-11, 11:40 PM
I went with Conti DWSs, and we had 24+" in one day. I had NO problems all winter, and MAYBE wore out 1/32" also. If you're a lead foot, probably more though.

bufvicwel
10-18-11, 04:21 PM
Hi all. I am approaching my first Cleveland winter in my CTS-V. I also see that the Pirelli SottoZeros are back ordered and can't wait until end of November to get fitted with snow gear. : ) Just wondering if you guys know if running 255/40s on the back (stock is 285/35) will cause any issues with the traction control system. I called two local Caddy dealerships. One said it is totally fine, the other said it might cause problems. Also, the 255's should fit on the stock 19"/9.5" rims, correct? Anyone know if using non-stock size tires would cause any warranty issues? I am leaning towards the Blizzak LM/60's. I had a 2nd Gen Ford Lightning before my V and drove through 7 Cleveland winters rather efficiently with Blizzaks so I trust the brand. Finally, does everyone have a separate set of rims for their snow tires, or do you just swap summer/winter sets on and off of your stock rims?

Thanks for the help!

JimmyH
10-18-11, 05:01 PM
If Cleveland is anything like Chicago, just get some all-season tires. 59" last winter, and I didn't see more than an 1" at a time, and didn't have to drive in snow more than 6-7 times.

FFBOS
10-18-11, 07:13 PM
I ended up going with LM60's, I haven't mounted them on my other rims yet. I went with stock sizes...

Prof
10-18-11, 11:06 PM
Northern Illinois resident here...going for my third winter on Sotto's...just saw that someone was selling four that had been used for one winter...search for the ad...the Sotto's are worth the effort in my opinion.

nsaness
10-18-11, 11:20 PM
deleted

mpouls1
10-19-11, 01:16 AM
I live in Northern Illinois. I've had Pirelli Sottozero 240's for 2 winters, this would be the third. I just replaced my front with stock size Blizzak LM60's, but have not been able to find stock size rears. The closest I can find is 275/35/19.


I ended up going with LM60's, I haven't mounted them on my other rims yet. I went with stock sizes...
Are you sure the LM60's come stock rear also (285/35/19)?

I've been debating changing the rears out to. I just had the front Blizzaks mounted today and boy do they look mean.

I was curious to see what rear size other members have used for Blizzak. I know narrow is better, but I'm trying to stay close to stock as possible, which I could do with the sotto's. Does anyone see any problem with going to 275? These winter tire threads should be a sticky lol.

I did have Blizzaks on my CSRT8 for 2 winters so I have used both.

Prof
10-19-11, 06:39 AM
...my CSRT8 for 2 winters so I have used both.

We need to start a boys club...those who love SRT and CTS V vehicles!!!!!!!!

bufvicwel
10-19-11, 09:17 AM
As far as I know the Blizzak LM-60s only go up to the 255/40 size and don't come in the stock 285/35 rear tire size. Narrower tires are better for getting through snow so the 255s on the back would be more efficient in the snow. Just not 100% sure if the size difference in the back will cause any issues with stabilitrak. Again, if anyone has ever run 255/40s on the back please let me know if you experienced any traction control system issues. From what I've read, the Sottos are slightly worse in deep snow than the Blizzaks, but are better in dry cold conditions and for handling. The Blizzaks are still H rated, though(good for up to 130 mph) and are still a performance snow tire so its not like you're getting a tire that can't handle any aggressive driving. Plus, I don't think most of us will be going 130 in our winters anyways. I pretty much drive uber-conservatively in the winter. And the Sottos aren't available this year until 11/25(255/40) and 11/30(285/35) respectively.

hifiaudio2
10-19-11, 11:10 AM
Northern Illinois resident here...going for my third winter on Sotto's...just saw that someone was selling four that had been used for one winter...search for the ad...the Sotto's are worth the effort in my opinion.

That ad states 75% tread left after half a winter's use. Does the tread on those tires wear THAT fast? Even with normal driving? (no burn outs)

BeagleBrains
10-19-11, 12:51 PM
I live staight West of you in East Central Iowa so I require good snow tire capabilities. This year the Jet Stream is blowing from the Arctic across Canada, down through Iowa and around through Chicago, suggesting a severe winter with considerable snow for all of us.
I used Blizzak LM60s last year. We have no qualms about venturing out into a snowy winter. Some deep snow up to 14 inches in one storm just following an 11 inch storm, no difficulties; if really deep, our Jeep provides maximum undaunted traction capabilities. When driving the Jeep, I look for challenging situations such as driving through deep road side ditches.
Never needed a tow in the Jeep Wrangler Rubicon/Posi-Traction and selectable Lockers front and rear. :want:
The last few winters have hazarded us with a few wet snow/freezing rain scenarios. The extensive use of Tread siping cuts in Blizzaks gives a sure footed feeling with such slippery challenges.
Since we have three cars to keep shod with replacement tires, our local Tire Store provides storage when we rotate summer/winter tires.

mpouls1
10-19-11, 01:34 PM
I just ordered 2, LM-60 275/35/19 Blizzaks for the rear. I measured my current Sotto's today and depth averaged 6/32 middle and outer 4/32. According to Tire Rack they are 11/32 new. I run the winter tires from November to sometime around March. 2 winters. Car bought new in 5/09 with currently 26k. I would consider mostly normal driving.

So I will be running Blizzak LM-60's this winter:

255/40/19 front
275/35/19 rear. I don't want any issues regarding stabilitrak or anything else. I have made it just fine with 285's.

mpouls1
10-19-11, 01:40 PM
We need to start a boys club...those who love SRT and CTS V vehicles!!!!!!!!

I absolutely loved my Hemi but like Captain Kirk says, "I need more power!!!"

velopod
10-19-11, 07:18 PM
I just ordered 2, LM-60 275/35/19 Blizzaks for the rear. I measured my current Sotto's today and depth averaged 6/32 middle and outer 4/32. According to Tire Rack they are 11/32 new. I run the winter tires from November to sometime around March. 2 winters. Car bought new in 5/09 with currently 26k. I would consider mostly normal driving.

So I will be running Blizzak LM-60's this winter:

255/40/19 front
275/35/19 rear. I don't want any issues regarding stabilitrak or anything else. I have made it just fine with 285's.

Why didn't you go with 275/45/19s in the LM-60s? You are 5% off with the 35 series and would only be 2.7% off with the 45s.

translux
10-19-11, 07:37 PM
So has anyone run 255/40/19 all the way around?
Inquiring minds want to know ;)

FFBOS
10-19-11, 08:59 PM
I didn't think they offered a 45 width, haven't checked in a bit though

JimmyH
10-19-11, 09:02 PM
That ad states 75% tread left after half a winter's use. Does the tread on those tires wear THAT fast? Even with normal driving? (no burn outs)

yes. Winter tires wear extremely quick on pavement.

translux
10-19-11, 09:12 PM
yes. Winter tires wear extremely quick on pavement.

When it's warm, cold not so much. It's always a trick to get them on and off at the right time. For sure need to get them off when temps are consistently above freezing.
I have a set of Blizzaks that have seen 3 winters, 2 on my M5 and one on the V. The show very little wear. Despite my aggressive driving ;)

JimmyH
10-19-11, 09:37 PM
I got one winter each out of four different sets of Blizzaks (on a car that was only 220 hp). Granted I had them on for four months straight, and put over 10000 miles on each. But still, after 10000 miles, their snow performance was no better than an all season. Of course, the last time I had them was 2006. So maybe they have gotten better since then. How deep does their Microcell go? Back when I had them, I think it was only the first 2 or 3/32 of tread depth. After that, the microcell was all burnt out, hence why their snow performance was pretty much shot.

mpouls1
10-19-11, 09:41 PM
didn't think much of a difference...I don't know much about mixing and matching.

translux
10-19-11, 11:22 PM
What's the word on the number of mounting/unmounting a tire can take? An old racer I knew was convinced that if you want max performance you can only mount a tire once. The stress of unmounting followed by the remount was too much. He was a pretty amazing driver but who knows.

JimmyH
10-20-11, 12:11 PM
Wouldn't it be more cost effective to buy a cheap set of wheels? It's about $100 every time you mount of set of tires, no?

SilveRT8
10-20-11, 05:13 PM
Just got my 12 Vagon and ordered 4 Blizzaks LM-60 in 255-40-19
In harsh Quebec I want the winter tire that's the best in deep snow and ice, dry and wet roads are not a problem for dayly driving.

mpouls1
10-20-11, 05:55 PM
Just got my 12 Vagon and ordered 4 Blizzaks LM-60 in 255-40-19
In harsh Quebec I want the winter tire that's the best in deep snow and ice, dry and wet roads are not a problem for dayly driving.


So has anyone run 255/40/19 all the way around?
Inquiring minds want to know ;)

Looks like an answer.

SilverRT8, you have 10" rear rim? I know that coupe does, don't know if Vagon is the same but would think so. Sedan is 9.5" You may be the first 255 rear Vagon. I don't remember seeing anyone else. Would this even affect anything?

V-Ruminator
10-20-11, 07:41 PM
I am in the same boat re: need for snow tires for Chicago. Interesting how many Blizzak fans there are compared to Aplins; are the Alpins newer and therefore there are less people who can comment on them? The reviews on the tire rack site look very good. I have Michelin PS2s on my ZR1 and CTS-V and I have used Michelin Pilot Sport Cups on the track, so I am a Michelin fan. I have no problem believing the Blizzaks are a great, capable tire, but just wondering if there are any Alpin drivers out there who can comment?

:cool2:

JimmyH
10-20-11, 08:03 PM
I had a set of Alpins years ago. I don't remember specifics, but I went back to Blizzaks after that.

Thrill6
10-20-11, 08:06 PM
The only issue with running 255/40's on the rear is that the rear wheels are wider than the fronts. The fronts are 9" wide and the rears are 10" wide. You need to make sure that the tires you purchase can be fitted on 10" wide wheels. The wider 10" wheel width will make the tire a bit shorter than it would be on a 9" wide wheel. Stabilitrack will only have issues if you significantly change the ratio of the tire sizes. On the CTS-V, the fronts and rears wheels/tires are the same height. So you just need to make sure that you keep them the same. The heigth of the tire sidewall is computed from the size. For example, the 255/40 tires are 255mm wide and the height is 40% of that or 102mm. The rears tires (285mm * 35%) are 99.75mm, or just about the same. As long as the manufacturer of the 255/40's tires says you can mount them on 10" wide rims you will be perfectly fine.

SilveRT8
10-21-11, 12:36 AM
To clarify things here, only the Coupe has 10" wide rear rims. Sedan and Wagon have 9.5" rears.
All three have 9" fronts, so on a Sedan or Wagon going 255 all around is fine. I dont know about Coupes, they may need a wider tire to go with the 10" rims.
The Michelins wins in categories like wet and dry handling, noise and comfort, so if your winters are moderate you will love them. The Blizzaks win in deep snow and ice traction, so if you get tough winters they will be better at keeping you from getting stuck.

mpouls1
10-24-11, 06:51 PM
Just had the Blizzak LM60's installed today. Here's some pic's I took.

front 255/40
rear 275/35

I wanted to keep the ratio's as close as possible to avoid any issues with Stabilitrack. I've run pirelli sotto 285's the last 2 winters no problems. I'm not an Ice Road Trucker.

http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/mpoulsen25/CTS-V/Blizzaks/030-2.jpg

http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/mpoulsen25/CTS-V/Blizzaks/027-2.jpg

http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/mpoulsen25/CTS-V/Blizzaks/028-2.jpg

http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/mpoulsen25/CTS-V/Blizzaks/029-2.jpg

Prof
10-25-11, 06:45 AM
Wouldn't it be more cost effective to buy a cheap set of wheels? It's about $100 every time you mount of set of tires, no?

This was an issue with me...and transport of the snow tires to the shop, then transporting the warm weather tires back to the house...

I just bought a set of OEM wheels and mounted my Sotto's...(added the pressure sensors too) then change them myself...reset the sensors...put the others on the wall for the winter.

Garycoral
10-25-11, 09:55 PM
That's my plan... I better get going!

hifiaudio2
10-26-11, 03:11 PM
Do most of you on here buy from Tirerack? Who is the popular choice to mount them?

JimmyH
10-26-11, 03:30 PM
They have a database of installers all over the country. Some are good, some are not.

gnxs
10-27-11, 04:22 PM
Just had the Blizzak LM60's installed today. Here's some pic's I took.

front 255/40
rear 275/35

I wanted to keep the ratio's as close as possible to avoid any issues with Stabilitrack. I've run pirelli sotto 285's the last 2 winters no problems. I'm not an Ice Road Trucker.

C'mon Mike, the drag strips are still open. A bit early to mount up the snowys. ;)

A set of Blizzak LM60s (265/35/19s) got me through the Chicago Winter last year and expect they'll do the same this year. Mounted on the factory sedan wheels. They look a little small on those rims, but get the job done. Just don't try and pin your G-meter and they'll work out fine.

mpouls1
10-27-11, 06:34 PM
C'mon Mike, the drag strips are still open. A bit early to mount up the snowys. ;)

I was actually thinking about going to Eurotech and getting my car dynoed. I wanted to compare to other member stock numbers as my "butt dyno" feels like it is not running like it should. Only thing I changed was the plugs to tr6 awhile back. Then take it to Byron for one last run to see if I can improve any. Although I believe there is not much room. I don't have the skizills like 1sensei. But I think with new tires next year I give it a go.

And yes I reluctantly had to mount them. My front L tire blowed up couple weeks ago and I was not in the mood to buy new tires (on backorder) and new snow shoes on top of that.

I do hope to go to Byron one last time this year but not to see my car run...

BeagleBrains
10-28-11, 08:40 AM
.. .an issue with ..transport of the snow tires...back ...
"....OEM wheels and ...change them myself....

I have three vehicles requiring periodic tire replacement. The Tire Dealer stores my winter wheels and (Blizzak) tires, performing the seasonal change out when needed. An inquiry on your part could be rewarding.

V-Ruminator
11-04-11, 12:33 AM
Just had the Alpins installed 255/40/19s all around; my first impression is that they look, sound, and handle like a comfortable all-season tire so far; I can't believe they're snow tires! We get a lot of snow in Chicago; that will be the true test, but considering I was looking for great winter tires that don't act like squirmy snow tires on all those non-total blizzard days, so far so good.

JimmyH
11-04-11, 01:00 PM
Report back once you have driven them on snow. I was VERY unsatisfied with the Alpins I had. To be fair, that was 8 years ago. I am curious if they have improved.