I know that we've had the discussion about Acura not being a true luxury car like Cadillac, etc. but DAYMN...what I saw in the showroom impressed me today!

I checked out the new AWD RL (pearl white) and they are definately trying to compete with Cadillac IMO! It costs the same as a nicely equipted DTS ($70,000 Cdn.) and has power to match. It has the equivalent of Stabilitrack. The car actually "welcomes" you when you open the door. The remote keyless entry that senses your presence much like the XLR, or STS, etc. The only problem I had with it is that the front end looks identical to a little Mazda 3's.

Considering that the '05 DTS Northstar HP is down to 290 @ 5600 rpm, and torque is 285 @ 4400 rpm, I think this new RL must come close in accelleration times?

Here are the RL numbers:
300 HP @6200 rpm and torque is 260 @ 5000rpm.

Weight for TL is 4001 lbs.
Weight for DTS is 4047 lbs.

http://www.acura.com/models/model_index.asp?module=rl


It's amazing what they are getting for HP out of a V6.

Why is horsepower down to 290?! I think 0-60 will go to the DeVille but it'll get close for the quarter mile. Beyond that has to go to the RL...

I asked a Caddy dealer that same question about the HP and he said it might have to do with meeting emissions.

I wouldn't know how close to call these cars but with a sticker price matching a DTS and more technology to boot, they are sure trying to compete.

that thing is ugly. i almost threw up when i saw it :vomit: . and they want 70k? they have got to be kidding.

That's 70k Canadian. Hideous car too.

With the Northstars 40 ft-lbs. better torque, it will be a better drag racer!

Bring on them Jap cars, my STS will shut em down! :sneaky:

I think the Acura is very impressive. There are no options, expect dealer installed extras (wood, gold trim, wheels), and the MSRP is $49,000. I didn't drive it, but the front seats are extremely comfortable and the dash is nicely finished. XM radio is standard, along with the navigation system that provides for real-time traffic reports in major cities. The system also transmits to your vehicle your service appointments and service bulletins for your review. The only area overlooked, that I know of, is the passenger seat. It does not have a height adjustment, and features 4-way power and power lumbar. I think that this car compares very well with the STS on price and features. Oh yeah, it is AWD to boot. Can you tell I like it? :bouncy:

I liked it too but I would have to drive it. I was wondering if anyone reading this might have taken one out for a test drive? I would love to hear some impressions, etc.

I noticed it was a lot wider than the TL, and overall seemed larger. I found my perfect seating position. That's true about the torque, it is down compared to Cadillac, but then the Northstars torque is down a bit too.

Many people feel that Acura is a poor man's Lexus, and I wonder if Acura could be truly considered a priemiere luxury car unless they get a V8 under the hood? As far as I know, Honda/Acura have never offered a V8, and if I'm not mistaken, the Pilot only has a large V6?

Not sure that the absence of a V8 under the hood necessarily disqualifies you from "luxury car" status...Just ask most owners of XJ-6's...

The 300Hp V6 should be more than enough, so the old RL not having a V8 isn't that significant as when the last gen had a ~227 HP V6. Other manufacturers should be worried that Acura will one day produce a V8.

Now if they could only work on the styling. It's seems like a very capable sedan but the styling is horrible for 50K. It looks like a big Accord. The styling is the only gripe I have about it.

I priced it out with the options I'd buy. It's $ 51,200.00 (USA).
1. It's Ugly, looks like a honDUH
2. It's overpriced.
3. Lets not lose sight: It's a 6 Cyl Japanese small car.

I'll stick with my 2003 Town Car Limited Edition @ $40,000 and 215" long, 80" wide and room for 6 250 pounders, with a blouvard smooth, no wind whistles, luxury car ride. 5,500 miles & 18 months old, never been back for an adjustment, nor a "problem". Actually, I'd prefer the final year Catera Sport over that overpriced little Jap car.
Ralph, I am surprised at you! Was it the Lunar Eclipse of last night ???
or too much :drinker

I like it A LOT. Nice design, powerful engine, good overall features. Waiting for the reviews!

I priced it out with the options I'd buy. It's $ 51,200.00 (USA).
1. It's Ugly, looks like a honDUH
2. It's overpriced.
3. Lets not lose sight: It's a 6 Cyl Japanese small car.

I'll stick with my 2003 Town Car Limited Edition @ $40,000 and 215" long, 80" wide and room for 6 250 pounders, with a blouvard smooth, no wind whistles, luxury car ride. 5,500 miles & 18 months old, never been back for an adjustment, nor a "problem". Actually, I'd prefer the final year Catera Sport over that overpriced little Jap car.
Ralph, I am surprised at you! Was it the Lunar Eclipse of last night ???
or too much :drinker

I wouldn't call it small. It was a lot wider than the TL parked beside it in the showroom, and a little longer. The wheelbase is 2800 mm! Geez I hate the metric system! LOL! I just think it was a nice car but you really have to see one in person I suppose.

It's not like I would buy one over a NEW Caddy, especially if they are the same price. ;)

I'll stick with my 2003 Town Car Limited Edition @ $40,000 and 215" long, 80" wide and room for 6 250 pounders, with a blouvard smooth, no wind whistles, luxury car ride. 5,500 miles & 18 months old, never been back for an adjustment, nor a "problem".

Don't Jinx yourself Sandy ;)

Ralph, have you been in the STS? Which interior did you like better? I think the RLs interior is nice looking(though I have only seen pictures). I think I would rather have the STS though. I dont like the back of the RL the front is okay. It does have really impresive AWD that can like send all the engines power to any one wheel if needed.

Don't Jinx yourself Sandy ;)

Ralph, have you been in the STS? Which interior did you like better? I think the RLs interior is nice looking(though I have only seen pictures). I think I would rather have the STS though. I dont like the back of the RL the front is okay. It does have really impresive AWD that can like send all the engines power to any one wheel if needed.

Well, I sat in a new black V6 STS in the showroom, but the only reason I didn't like the interior was because it was in black. I like lighter colors. The RL had a good sense of quality and seemed well laid out though.

Damn, I'm lovin' this new computer.

HAHA cool dude, I guess your going to be on all night. Maybe I can stay up hahaha :yawn:

Here is a good article on the RL, and an interior shot:

http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=7620&sid=183&n=157

"The RL's styling resembles a mini-Maybach..."

http://www.thecarconnection.com/images/gallery/tmb/8459_image.jpg

I could've sworn it was a Grand Am from that angle.

The styling of the Maybach is nothing to get all giddy about either...yuck....lol

I like the RL, as used car it would be nice....but like any other car I would never buy it new.....Acuras are known to loose value extremely fast.

Sandy, lets just hope Ford puts the new Hurricane in the Towncar.....Towncar+hurricane=370hpbeast

im not worried about the Acura beating a caddy. :coolgleam

I would never buy an acura. maybe a lexus or an infiniti but never an acura.

Has anyone testdrove one yet??????

Impressions?

Ok, here is a good article and decent pics:


http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/pw/05rl.htm


The interior is looking more Cadillac, especially with real wood, etc.

Nothing beats the Northstar. I can't believe this is even up to commitee. There hasn't been an engine since it's introduction that has revolutionized the way automakers design their powerplants. It was the first ever production 32-valve V-8. Can you lose all the coolant out of that Honda V-6 and still get home without overheating? You can with the Northstar.

As for the loss in power, various modifications have been made to increase fuel economy and reliability. I don't know about you, but I'm fine with losing a few ponies to save some money on gas and maybe even shop time. If this were a sports car, we'd have some serious problems. The Northstar in the XLR still puts out 320 horses at the wheels. It's a different application.

The Northstar still consistently has the most power/fuel effciency ratio of any V-8 on the market. As far as engineering goes, this new Honda V-6 is excellent. It would appear that Honda has gotten the maximum out of the V-6. When they move up to a V-8 and start to steal the Northstar's thunder there, then we can talk. That's unlikely. Cadillac just keeps taking a good thing and making it better. There's no replacement for displacement my friends. The Northstar has a much flatter torque and power curve than this V-6. It's power is available across a boarder range of engine speeds. Not only that, but the larger displacement allows for lower RPM torque. Like I said, this is one hell of a V-6, but that's the problem. It's a V-6.

Cadillac...Breakthrough

I think it's a hot looking car in person. Saw one in black the other day and it really looked good. The car is a lot for the money IMO, and the engine is no slouch either, with a 6.5sec. 0-60 time.

I'm not a huge fan of a new RL, didn't like the previous either. TL on the other hand is something I'd go for, if I had the money. As far as Honda engines go, I'd say that a V6 actually feels like a V8, '03 TL Type S can do a quarter in mid 14s, that's with a 3.2L 260HP 6 cylinder.

I think that Acura just doesn't have a need to build a V8. If they did they would have done so already. They simply continue to impress people with amazing technology, quality craftsmanship and some of the best driving experience IMO. Hey, I used to be a Honda basher too, until I bought one :p and realized that there are many reasons people like those cars.

I'm still suprised no one here has test drove one to talk about any comparison with a Caddy, including MYSELF!

Its about as exciting as a toaster. Although, my toaster is kind of exciting. Its a GE "digital" toaster with a special bagel mode.

Jesda's Toaster: 1
New Acura RL: 0

Honda / Acura will never build a V8, because that's not what driving a Honda is all about. Honda has always been about frugal quality, not about building to compete. I'm not a Honda vehicle fan by any means, but they make a darn good 2 horse trimmer, but with their current president, who feels that "fullsize American trucks are wastefully large" or something like that, can't remember the exact quote, Honda has no reason to build a V8. When do you except to see a Honda / Acura in the same class as say, a 7-series BMW, Lexus LS, or Honda ever building full-size pickups? I don't, at least not for a long time, which is why the Northstar will continue to reign. I don't need to re-list all the advantages the Northstar has, we all know it's a marvelous engine, but there's something that can never be re-stated too many times, there's no replacement for displacement. That's why I love Chevy Big Blocks!

Brian

V-8 300hp>V-6 300hp. There is no comparison. The V-8 is smoother, quicker and has a nice growl. The V-6 still feels strained, it has no low end toruqe and only 260lbs at peak. It also has to scream to hit peak HP.

When Honda fans argue their V-6 this and that, they have NEVER owned a V-8. Cause when u do, its almost impossible to go back.:coolgleam

You guys sound a little concerned if Honda/Acura DID built a V8?! :sneaky: I could see them getting into the big truck market. Nissan did it probably because they wanted a piece of that pie and built the Titan. I'm still amazed the Pilot only has a V6! I would want an SRX over that anyday!

Its my understanding that Acuras hold their value quite well, especially the manual Legend II. The interior on the new RL is absolutely stunning. I just wish it wasnt so blah from the outside.

I like the previous RL's looks better.. Is it me or are they getting smaller and smaller?

I like the previous RL's looks better.. Is it me or are they getting smaller and smaller?

Actually, I find the new one to be "fatter" and larger overall.

I do like the interior in the new RL but I don't think I would buy one if it's the same price as a Deville.

http://www.cadillac.com/deville/limitededition/background.jpg

http://www.cadillac.com/deville/limitededition/background.jpg

Those aren't even the nice DTS rims! :shhh: :hmm: Looks more like a Deville base to me.

A DTS here is 70k and it's the same price for the RL!

Honda ever building full-size pickups? I don't, at least not for a long time


I've got some bad news for you Brian:

http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=8069&sid=275&n=157

There is not a chance in frozen over hell that I would take that Honda thing over a fully loaded DTS. The DTS has more character, driving dynamic and agresiveness than that Acura could ever dream of. Does the Acura have a boatload of cool digital features? Yes. Does the Acura have an awesome AWD system? Yes. Is the Acura's interior quality probably leaps ahead of the Cadillac? Probably. Does the Acura have an ounce of soul... No. Not fun to drive, its a get there from here luxo people hauler. Bleh...

By the way, its proper Japanese name is "Honda Legend".

P.S. I have to hand it to Acura on the RL Interior, it is beautiful, plus the Navigation screen is huge.

I would rather have the basic DTS over that limited edition. Or at least put the DTS rims on it. I too liked the RL interior!

You can't talk to much trash about the Acura. I had a 02 TL-type S it was a very good car, good design and well executed in manufacturing. Cadillac could learn some about the car business if they looked closely. If the N. Star had the same output per litre as Acura's sweet running V-6s some of us would be in jail for wreckless endangerment.

You can't talk to much trash about the Acura. I had a 02 TL-type S it was a very good car, good design and well executed in manufacturing. Cadillac could learn some about the car business if they looked closely. If the N. Star had the same output per litre as Acura's sweet running V-6s some of us would be in jail for wreckless endangerment.
Yes the TL had a sweet V-6 but the rest of the car was built poorly. Caddy better not take any lessons. Tranny recall, rattles, cheap leather, HIDs stolen, etc etc. It was a good seller b/c it was cheap, 27k to start and 31k for a Type-S loaded.
Value, I think not, you get what you pay for.

Sal, the new RL is smaller than the previous model.

http://www.acura.com/models/model_index.asp?module=rl


It's amazing what they are getting for HP out of a V6.

And therein lies the problem. I think that squeezing so many ponies out of a V6 will adversely impact the engine's overall longevity. All things being equal, a big V8 has to work "less hard" to get high HP than a smaller V6 engine.

Having said that, the interior of the RL is real sweet. Damn, the leather smells better than new leather in a Caddy. Do Japanese cows smell better than American cows? :eek:

I'm still suprised no one here has test drove one to talk about any comparison with a Caddy, including MYSELF!

I test drove one last week. The new Honda, er, Acura, traction control works very well around curves. As I posted before, the car's interior is VERY nice. Still, I would take a well equipped DTS over the RL anytime.

The dealer was eager to take my black on black 1999 SLS (35.5k miles) in trade for a new RL.

The offer was tempting.....but my SLS has one fantastic feature that I would not trade for any other car in the world.

IT IS ALREADY PAID FOR!!!! :thumbsup:

The Acura dealer just opened about a month ago here in Monterrey. Ill go and take a look at them Acuras, test drive a couple and post my opinions regarding this cars.

Mejia

DTS rocks http://cadillacforums.com/forums/images/smilies/banana.gif

1SICKLEX

Built poorley, I would have to disagree. Leather in my car was of good quality, not as good as my SRX, but not like the cheep stuff in Toyotas or Nissans. The plastic was of equal quality, may have been a bit nicer in the TL. The gerneal fit and trim was nicer, controls some better some the same. What I realy miss is the manuel shit mode, it seems akward in the SRX. The trans did get replaced at 30k, but they gave me a 100k transferable warrentee on it (can't complain too much about that.) One thing I'll say is the dealerships are not to good. I finally found a good one in Oakland, to bad I didn't find it sooner. I don't acticipate a good dealer experience at Cadillac. As far as engine durability, if past history accounts for anything, the TL and RL engines are some of the best. I do like the SRX and think I'll keep it for 2 or 3 years. I always pay cash for my cars and we can only hope the SRX, or whatever Cadillac you own, will hold its value as well as my old Acura did.

IT IS ALREADY PAID FOR!!!! :thumbsup:

Good point! As long as you're still happy with it and the Rainsense is worked out, etc.

Acura RL video:

http://www.drivingtelevision.com/segmentviewer.php?segment=2&episode=202&searchStatus=&keyword=&keywordcall=&segtitle=

Side by side comparison:

http://macleans.auto123.com/en/new/find/searchcompare.spy?ID1=1014130&ID2=1014075&ID3=&ID4=&lng=en&ID_1014130=&ID_1014075=

I had to follow my friend over to the local Acura dealership on our way to school the other day, so he could drop his Integra off for some warranty work. While he was talking to the service manager, I went and looked at the RL in the showroom. I have to say that the car looked pretty nice, especially in black. The interior seemed a little small to me, but I didn't get a chance to actually sit in it. The layout of the dash (buttons, dials,...ect) seemed cluttered with stuff. There's also like 20 or so buttons on the steering wheel too. The leather and wood looked really nice though. The real time GPS traffic info, is a nice feature too. I still like the styling of the TL better though, I think it would be nice if they had an option for the 300hp engine in it. That would be a fast car.

I had to follow my friend over to the local Acura dealership on our way to school the other day, so he could drop his Integra off for some warranty work. While he was talking to the service manager, I went and looked at the RL in the showroom. I have to say that the car looked pretty nice, especially in black. The interior seemed a little small to me, but I didn't get a chance to actually sit in it. The layout of the dash (buttons, dials,...ect) seemed cluttered with stuff. There's also like 20 or so buttons on the steering wheel too. The leather and wood looked really nice though. The real time GPS traffic info, is a nice feature too. I still like the styling of the TL better though, I think it would be nice if they had an option for the 300hp engine in it. That would be a fast car.

I like the styling too, and they are 300 hp. (unless you mean FOR the TL)

The interior in beige looks more vast and larger than any interior in black which hides details, etc. imo.

This one had the beige interior, but I was looking through some pretty dark tinted glass, so I couldn't really tell. What I meant with the 300hp option, was that it would be nice to get in the TL as well. Maybe like a more performance oriented version of the car (nevermind that it already does 0-60 in what, 5.7 seconds or something?). I think that would be a nice option, to an already nice car.

Having just purchased a 2005 RL, I had to put my .02$ in. I had a 2000 STS that I purchased new and finally sold in March with around 106K on it, the car was almost perfect in every way. My son has a 2003 DTS with Navi, Night Vision.. the works and it just does not cut it for me price-wise. I received an invitation to drive the new STS 3.6 and 4.6 when they first hit my local dealership and I was impressed with both, but I was not in the market for a sedan at the time. My only complaint was the quality of the interior in the STS. My Acura purchase was an impulse buy, but in retrospect, I think it is a better bang for the buck than the new STS 3.6 and DTS. The only other vehicle I wish I had driven before I bought it is the new Infiniti M45. But alas, I have made my choice and I hope it brings me the same 106K splendid miles my 2000 STS did. As for a DTS over the RL.. I find my son's DTS a fairly boring automobile. It lacks the grunt of the STS and does not handle half as well as the STS. My STS on the other hand was the perfect daily driver and highway cruiser with great reliability. With respect to resale value, I think Acura has the advantage. My son's 2003 DTS stickered for $56K and he bought it for just under $20K two months ago. The 2004 TLs are bringing $2-5K less than what they stickered for after 1 year. We will see how the RL resale value holds up. Maybe I should have gone Cadillac again.. but the choice was made and I will be sure to report how the next set of 100K miles go with the Acura.
-Abe

An acura was one of the brands I considered before buying my dhs. This was before the new rl came out. I drove both tl versions (standard and type s) and I can tell you the performance in those was a joke. Granted the type s had 4 people in it but still. I had the thing at wot and it screamed like a banshee but accelerated sloooow. What is 260hp good for if it has no torque? Definitely not close to the same feeling as the v8. I also tried the older rl, and I have to say that car was much better. From a standstill it actually felt stronger then the north* there was a real feeling of torque. Once it got up to speed it quickly ran out of breath, so passing power made it obvious that it wasn't a v8. I didn't drive the new rl, but from what I heard acura is really sacrificing torque to reach 300hp. The older 3.5 was one of the best engines and 1st on my list of best v6s. I hope they havent ruined it by trying to please marketing with a 300hp figure. I ended up going with the cadillac, I liked the exterior much more. Ohh and let's not forget the north* can still beat the new rl in a race with no problem.

My daughter drives a 2001 Acura CL Type S and I understand what you mean about that engine screaming and yet not putting you back into the seat. The 3.5 V6 torque is only at 260 ft/lbs which is less than the 295 ft/lbs my 2000 STS had, but it is put to the wheels much better than the FWD STS. As far as power goes, the 2000 STS and the RL feel just as fast up to 80mph (still breaking in the RL). However, the RL lacks in power compared to a new 2005 STS Northstar.. but that car is also more expensive. Having driven my son's 2003 DTS, I can honestly say the RL would win hands down in a 1/4 mile and handling. The DTS just has so much weight and length that it is more of a luxury touring sedan than sports car unlike my old STS. I do look forward to the new STS-V and hope they make a V version of the new DTS. For the meantime, I am loving the technology this car has to offer for the price.

Having driven my son's 2003 DTS, I can honestly say the RL would win hands down in a 1/4 mile and handling.



Sry, but I have to disagree with that. I just read a review of he rl in autoweek, and the figures are: 7.2 0-60 15.53@90.8 in the 1/4 mile. It makes 300hp at 6200rpm and 260lbs/ft at 5000rpm. Curb weight is 3984. Based on the numbers, the dts should beat it since it runs high 6s 0-60 and low 15s in the quarter. The trap speed is especially low for the rl, since the dts will hit 93. Not to mention the new ones with the 320hp north* which should embarass the rl on the drag strip. :coolgleam

I remeber the old 3.5 making around 230 lbs/ft but at a much lower rpm, something around 2800.

I think you and your son should hit the drag strip, I know who I would put my money on.:burn:

I have read from 6.7-7.3 zero-sixty for the Acura and low to mid 15s for the quarter mile.

I think you mean the 1998-2004 STS with those numbers for the Cadillac. The DTS runs 7.0-7.7 zero-sixty and mid to high 15s in the quarter mile.

It really depends on how much the manufacturer is paying the magazine testing the car :D

It would make an interesting show to see the two at the drag strip, the last time I went was in the Trans Am last July. :thumbsup: Once the RL has been properly passed the break in period, I can see how it acts from a stand still launch with the AWD.

7.0-7.7? Id like to think my car isnt that slow...

I read a bunch of reviews for the deville, consumer guide and newcar test drive.com says 7 sec flat and one review actually got a 6.2 from it. I think I'm going to have to time mine to see it for myself. I know there is someone here with a 2000-2004 deville that runs low 15s stock, can someone post their results here?

The 3.5 V6 torque is only at 260 ft/lbs which is less than the 295 ft/lbs my 2000 STS had, but it is put to the wheels much better than the FWD STS.

No, it's not like FWD magically eats 35ft.lbs. In a heavy car like a DTS you should be able to launch without too much wheelspin so RWD doesn't have a big advantage in this case. Now if the STS-V was FWD you could have an argument. Plus the torque peak of the northstar is 600 rpm lower than the Acura, so it's going to feel like it lacks even more than 35ft.lbs.

so RWD doesn't have a big advantage in this case

The Acura is AWD.. which causes more drivetrain power losses so yes, it will feel much less than the 295 ft/lbs of torque my STS had.

Not to mention the obvious, but a Northstar V8 is going to have a much wider torque curve than a Honda V6. Wider curve = more usuable power.

Brian

So, here was the RL prototype.......

http://www.cardesignnews.com/autoshows/2004/newyork/highlights/index3.html

Is it pretty much identical to what the production RL looks like??

Wow, the prototype is identical to the production model according to the pictures. The prototype appears to have the A-spec suspension.