: Intake Manifold Bolts



mkmarsilio
09-01-11, 04:46 PM
Check to see if they are tight!!! 6 of 10 of mine were significantly loose. A 10 mm socket, wrench, and extension. Each will be needed to get around the fuel rail at different angles.

Learned this by reading here;)

Subsailor613
09-01-11, 05:42 PM
also at 100 in/lbs.
Good Luck

ddalder
09-01-11, 09:02 PM
Which engine are you talking about? The LH2 bolts should be 89 lb in. or 10 N.m but I can't speak for the V6.

mkmarsilio
09-02-11, 01:15 AM
Which engine are you talking about? The LH2 bolts should be 89 lb in. or 10 N.m but I can't speak for the V6.

Thanks for the information! I thought I was finished - I only thought to use the elbow torque-o-meter. As far as motors go I am a V8 RWD type guy...getting rarer these days. I don't know if I have the adapters on hand to step my torque wrench down to the drive that fits my metrics? I thought my project was complete, but maybe to the store.

ddalder
09-03-11, 03:24 AM
There have been several members on the forum speak of loose intake manifold bolts so I decided to check mine tonight and 6/10 were loose. Some as much as one full turn before I hit the 10 N.m torque.

Since I was also doing a little work on my Bonneville, I decided to check it as well. I've got the LD8 engine in it (4.6L transverse mounted Northstar). It has about 111,000 km and I found every one of the 10 bolts was very loose. I initially made the assumption the torque spec was likely the same but when every one I checked seemed loose I checked the spec just to be sure. Nope, I wasn't overtightening! Hmmm, I wonder if this is a general Northstar problem or if it may be found on any GM engine with this style/type of manifold?

Dj Brady
09-03-11, 03:27 AM
just out of curiosity, are these headbolts "stretch" bolts, meaning, are they 'single use' bolts?

ddalder
09-03-11, 03:35 AM
I believe you may be thinking of different bolts. I very much doubt these would be a stretch type bolt because the torque spec is so low. We're talking lb in., not lb ft. and to stretch, it would have to be an extremely soft alloy. Also, there is no mention in the FSM to use new bolts. Generally GM provides this when necessary.

Subsailor613
09-04-11, 07:32 PM
More on this: After reading about this on here, I headed down to my high school buddy's place about 150 Miles from home.
I used 8 gal to get there, I tightened the bolts to 100 In Lbs, found ALL of them loose about 1 full turn, couldn't do the #1 or #2
bolt in the sequence as there is a pressure switch type thing facing down toward the bolt, so used a open end, and did the best
I could. Some of the indications: I noticed when pressing down lightly on the gas, it used to convert automatically from 5th (OD) to 4th gear.
before the tightening, it didn't respond well, and I blamed my less than 26 MPG on rear tires, now it converts GREAT, and I only used
6.5 Gals coming home, and the MPG avg, hit 26.6, which I have NOT seen in a long time. The transmission downshifting, usually has
what they call a modulator, used to be (Vacuum controlled), this one also must be, as it works MUCH better now !
Thanks to all who supplied the Correct info on this item, and helped me get this done.
I wanted to use LOck tite on the bolts. You would have to pull the fuel racks to do this, I NEVER have done this, so I didn't do it.:cool2::cool2::cool2:
BTW, I ONLY have 45K miles on this, you would think they are NOT loose at this point, Murphy's law got me again !

Dj Brady
09-05-11, 10:31 AM
More on this: After reading about this on here, I headed down to my high school buddy's place about 150 Miles from home.
I used 8 gal to get there, I tightened the bolts to 100 In Lbs, found ALL of them loose about 1 full turn, couldn't do the #1 or #2
bolt in the sequence as there is a pressure switch type thing facing down toward the bolt, so used a open end, and did the best
I could. Some of the indications: I noticed when pressing down lightly on the gas, it used to convert automatically from 5th (OD) to 4th gear.
before the tightening, it didn't respond well, and I blamed my less than 26 MPG on rear tires, now it converts GREAT, and I only used
6.5 Gals coming home, and the MPG avg, hit 26.6, which I have NOT seen in a long time. The transmission downshifting, usually has
what they call a modulator, used to be (Vacuum controlled), this one also must be, as it works MUCH better now !
Thanks to all who supplied the Correct info on this item, and helped me get this done.
I wanted to use LOck tite on the bolts. You would have to pull the fuel racks to do this, I NEVER have done this, so I didn't do it.:cool2::cool2::cool2:


That's a good bit of information and very inspirational! My average is under 20mpg as well. Is there a step by step to gain access to the intake bolts somewhere on here?

1BadCadSTS
09-05-11, 11:36 AM
pull the beauty cover...

Dj Brady
09-05-11, 12:07 PM
heh.. as soon as I hit enter, It dawned on me that the bolts would be readily available under the cover.. :)
hunting the sequence now.

Dj Brady
09-05-11, 12:09 PM
I believe you may be thinking of different bolts. I very much doubt these would be a stretch type bolt because the torque spec is so low. We're talking lb in., not lb ft. and to stretch, it would have to be an extremely soft alloy. Also, there is no mention in the FSM to use new bolts. Generally GM provides this when necessary.

I mean to address this post earlier and got sidetracked. You're correct. I was thinking of head bolts. Oops :)

ddalder
09-06-11, 12:33 AM
I can't comment on a change in fuel economy just yet as I haven't driven enough since tightening the bolts to know. I can say that the first time I drive each day, or after the car has sat for several hours and cooled off, the car hesitates a little as I accelerate and I need to back off a little. Since tightening the intake manifold bolts, this appears to be resolved. I've also noticed a smoother, more powerful acceleration anytime I'm driving. Overall I'm happy with the results of a very simple maintenance procedure.

ddalder
09-06-11, 12:54 AM
heh.. as soon as I hit enter, It dawned on me that the bolts would be readily available under the cover.. :)
hunting the sequence now.

This might be what you're looking for...

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w96/dda1080/_Misc%20STS%20Photos/NorthstarIntakeBoltSeqeunce.jpg

Dj Brady
09-06-11, 07:37 AM
Close, but I park my car with the nose to the south. :(
You got one of those?

;)


This might be what you're looking for...

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w96/dda1080/_Misc%20STS%20Photos/NorthstarIntakeBoltSeqeunce.jpg

ddalder
09-06-11, 05:01 PM
Close, but I park my car with the nose to the south. :(
You got one of those?

;)

:hmm: :hmm: This help?
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w96/dda1080/_Misc%20STS%20Photos/NorthstarIntakeBoltSeqeunce2.jpg

AnderbrA
09-06-11, 06:04 PM
This whole thing had me curious...so over lunch I ran home and checked. To my astonishment, 9 of the 10 bolts were loose, with one almost ready to fall out. (pictured 2nd from firewall on drivers side) 80052

My STS is an 07 with shy of 98k. I couldn't believe these could come loose in less than 5 years.

Amazingly this 5 minute fix immediately solved a number of issues.
Rough idle and startup after car sat overnight.
Hesitation in lower RPM. 700-1500
Erratic shifting patterns, rough shift.

I highly recommend everyone checks this out...should almost be sticky. Thus the beauty of an enthusiast forum. :)

Dj Brady
09-06-11, 08:20 PM
:hmm: :hmm: This help?

much better.. let me go grab my mirror now. :)

AllWheelEric
09-10-11, 09:18 PM
Thanks for the advice, mkmarsilio, ddalder, and everyone else! I checked mine today and found they were very loose! I could tighten them with my fingers, if I had twisty little long skinny fingers. I have to go out tomorrow and find something like an articulating 3/8" extension, because I didn't have enough clearance to get my socket on most of the bolts. Harbor Freight is an hour away, but I'm sure they will have something, and I could use a motorcycle ride.

Once again, very nice job to the forum members. Shame on Cadillac.

Lifer
09-11-11, 01:01 AM
What do you know... 06 STS Northstar, 57,000 care-free miles. Checked the intake manifold bolts and had 10 out of ten loose to real loose. Tough to get to. Needed 10mm socket, flex adapter, and open end wrench. 10 minutes, and all better. Runs smoother now. :bouncy:

How can Government (was the General once) Motors build them so sloppy? Perhaps this is one of reasons they had to use my money to bail them out. :hmm:

Lifer
09-13-11, 07:01 PM
Its only been a few days, but I have had a noticeable improvement in gas mileage. It was around 13.5 average for city - suburb driving, but now I am around 19.5. Next would be a road trip. My last on in August averaged 21 miles to the gallon. :thumbsup:

stevenriz
09-15-11, 12:32 PM
I did this as well last weekend to try and fix a stalling/misfire during off the line acceleration. The car does not stall now but does a funny acceleration like this... RUMM RUMM RUMM RUMM RUMM when going halfway on the pedal. Once I let off if smooths out. It is a little peppier and gas mileage has improved. I still need to have that checked. Other members suggested a clogged catalytic converter and/or bad/clogged fuel pump/filter...

DitkaFan
09-15-11, 03:13 PM
I know quite a few people have verified this issue with the V8 N*s. But has anyone verified this is/isn't an issue with the V6s? Also does anyone have a diagram for the V6DI like was posted for the N*.

Thanks.

Dj Brady
09-15-11, 09:35 PM
Checked mine tonight. Most were finger loose, 3 were at least 3 threads out. Can't wait to see what it does for mileage. Can't say that "enriching" the combustion is going to do much for power though. leaner is always hotter.. :(

GREGB1954
09-19-11, 10:34 PM
Just tightened the bolts on our '06 STS N* with 54k miles. All 10 were loose. Done in 10 min. Runs and shifts great now. This is a must do. I am going to check them every 10,000 mi or so.

I could not get a socket on bolt #1 per diagram, so I used an open end 10mm wrench which is not ideal. So I will buy a crow foot wrench, or else remove the fuel rail. The other 9 bolts were easily reached with a 1/4" socket (10mm), with a std universal, then a 6" extension to my torque wrench.

It might make sense to use an appropriate Loctite product. I wonder if there is a technical bulletin on this??

nathanjax
09-22-11, 04:16 PM
Just tightened up mine. All 10 were loose. 2 or 3 i could tighten with my finger. 1 was about to fall out...

chazglenn3
09-23-11, 10:16 AM
I'm planning to do this soon, and was just thinking about removing the fuel rail. I'll have to think about it. I did a quick check and found a couple loose.

kschwed
09-23-11, 02:27 PM
Does this apply to the V6 also?

chazglenn3
09-23-11, 02:45 PM
This appears to be a NorthStar issue...

Subsailor613
09-25-11, 12:22 AM
I stand corrected: I got bum dope.
for the V8 it's 89 in/lb ! Or
7.2 Ft/Lb.
Sorry ! :yup::yup:

mckellyb
09-25-11, 08:32 AM
Finally checked mine, and yep, all ten were loose. At least three weren't even finger-tight.

Tip: You have to have either a 10mm crow foot or 1/4" socket/u-joint/extension for this to get under the fuel rail. A 3/8" drive isn't getting under there.

I could not find my 1/4" u-joint, so I'm getting another. The crow foot wrench worked, but a 1/4" drive would have been SO much easier and quicker.

I can't believe they cover up such a pretty engine with plastic. I'm sorely tempted to leave it off.

chazglenn3
09-25-11, 10:34 AM
Thanks for the tip, Kelly. I don't think I'm in the mood to remove the fuel rail. I need to get a 1/4" torque wrench and a new swivel. Off to Harbor Freight after work!

mckellyb
09-26-11, 12:44 PM
Besides all the obvious reasons to keep these snug, let me add one.

I'm 99.5% certain tightening these eliminated a slightly rough idle, which was only sometimes. After a couple of days, I might be 100% certain on this. It seems worse in the afternoon, for some reason.

EChas3
09-26-11, 11:26 PM
Burnt pistons anyone?

Dj Brady
09-26-11, 11:28 PM
Burnt pistons anyone?

:nod: Running lean = no bueno

chazglenn3
09-27-11, 10:37 PM
Found 8 out of 10 loose...much smoother idle.:highfive:

caddyfat2
09-28-11, 07:46 PM
I checked mines today and what do you know? I found 6 that were loose. They were'nt that bad but loose nonetheless. I tightened them down in less than 5 minutes. I didn't torgue them down just tightened as tight as I could so I guess I'll have to check them again in about 2 months. Now I can put another 72k miles on my beast. Hurray.

EChas3
09-28-11, 10:28 PM
You may have over-done it. The recommended torque isn't much.

Anyone else... take care. The spec is barely more than finger-tight.

caddyfat2
09-28-11, 11:55 PM
You may have over-done it. The recommended torque isn't much.

Anyone else... take care. The spec is barely more than finger-tight.


Yes Echas3 you are correct but my train of thought on that was make them a little tighter seeing the factory spec didn't work because everybody who checks them finds them loose. I will keep an eye on them.

caddyfat2
09-28-11, 11:58 PM
You may have over-done it. The recommended torque isn't much.

Anyone else... take care. The spec is barely more than finger-tight.


Yes Echas3 you are correct but my train of thought on that was make them a" little tighter "seeing the factory spec didn't work because everybody who checks them finds them loose. I will keep an eye on them.

caddyfat2
09-30-11, 10:46 AM
UPDATE: It is now two days since I tightened up the intake bolts and now my car runs as smooth as silk. Before you were able to tell it was running but now you can't even tell it's running it's so smooth. It hasn't idled so smooth since I purchased it 4 years ago. Wow what a difference.

mckellyb
09-30-11, 11:40 AM
Another update.

I re-checked mine yesterday, after finally getting a 1/4" drive U-joint, and they were all tight. Granted, I'd tightened them just a week ago, but still.

Let me caution everyone, there is one on the driver's side, middle of the engine front-to-back, under a part of the fuel rail which prevents using a socket on it. I had a crow-foot wrench, but was still damned unpleasant. Take your time on it is all I can say.

Probably should've tried a box-end wrench, but the crow-foot was doing something. Not much, but a little.

Oh, and I'm pretty certain my MPG is up about 1 MPG. This car gets driven the exact same way, every day, and I'm in the low-22's on the VIC (vehicle information center). Idle is definitely smoother.

1crock
09-30-11, 01:57 PM
Y'all might be interested to know this problem is not unique to the STS. My '96 Suburban had the same problem and so have a handful of other vehicles with a plastic lower intake. The answer is to use LocTite on them and the problem won't come back. I did that when I changed the intake gaskets on the Suburban. You can do it on STS (or anything else) by removing the bolts one at a time. The message here is, check them on anything you drive.

Caddyfat2, as an engineer I cringed when I read your "...as tight as I could..." :gah:Torque values are not used to make sure the bolt won't come loose, there are several engineering considerations involved including proper gasket seal and even strength of the parts. I really encourage you to correct what you've done with the proper torque. IF you don't want them to come loose again, LocTite is your answer.:thumbsup:

desilpj
10-04-11, 03:50 PM
Found 2 bolts loose. Idle is smoother now. If not already mentioned, using a 1/4" drive with a universal and extension, lets you tightened all the bolts.

MacMuse
10-20-11, 01:19 AM
I swear I might stick this thread to the first page.

I took mine in for a thermostat problem yesterday (still under CPO) and asked about the manifold bolts. They scoffed, of course, but ran a leak test and found ... wait for it ...





a leak.






they replaced 8 runner seals and a brake booster vacuum host. Ye gods what a difference. Light pedal acceleration from 0-40MPH appears to be much smoother. And I've had a noticeable hesitation when lightly accelerating from a cruising speed of 33-39mph that seems to be gone now as well.

amgqmp1
10-22-11, 12:03 AM
I swear I might stick this thread to the first page.

I wholeheartedly encourage making this post sticky.

I'm fresh in from a test drive after tightening the bolts on my '05 w/ 35,460mi. Most of mine were fairly loose. The car runs/sounds/feels like it should now.

aliskerov
01-29-12, 11:14 PM
What a nightmare! I always knew better then not using a torque wrench, but couldn't fit 3/8 drivers under the fuel rale, so was forced to hand tighten with a 1/4 set. Tightened every one up...took aout 10 minutes....until....the last bolt snaps in 2... What now? Had to take the fuel line off and get the entire manifold out, drill the bolt piece and then unwind it out. Finally done...and the replacement bolt I had from the hardware store snaps... this time with the use of a torque wrench (the bolt quality in this country it steadily declining btw). Had to take the manifold off again to drill that one out. ended up getting another bolt and didn't even bolt it down to spec like the stock ones cause I am not doing that again. About to order a stock bolt online, replace it once it arrives (specifically mounted the temporary one on the end). Lesson: A) never skip on the torque wrench B) do it once and do it right C)when it rains it pours. Cheers

scott9001
01-29-12, 11:37 PM
you should not be breaking these bolts at these specs are you surer your not doing somethign wrong? if your not i would recomend replacing all of the bolts!

aliskerov
01-30-12, 12:15 AM
Nah, you misunderstood. The stock bolt broke because I overtightened it by not using a torque wrench. The one I replaced it with was the same spec but ne from a hardware store, I assume it was a softer metal; one swift turn with the torque wrench and the bolt spun in 2. I'll see if they have a stronger bolt tomorrow; or not, the new replacement, though not torqued to spec is pretty damn tight. I'm not taking my chances again, but I think it's pretty good.

ddalder
01-30-12, 01:13 AM
Wow, you did tighten to 89 lb-in (7.4 lb-ft), correct? You must have cranked on the original one pretty good! There should be no question at all that a bolt made from a softer alloy won't snap within this range.

aliskerov
01-30-12, 07:28 PM
so your saying that the softer alloy bolt should be or should not be snapping? Called the dealer, they're getting me a new bolt (part # 11588352 btw) by tomorrow for $3.68 + tax. Not bad. The temporary replacement bolt seems to be holding up this time around, though not torqued all the way to spec (was a it worried it might break from the manifold pressure once the engine starts running). So, all-in-all, it was a good experience. I've done alot of mechanical stuff before but never had to remove intake manifolds or fuel lines/injectors before, never mind drilling bolts out of the heads. If I had to do it again - recommend to those considering checking these bolts - just go to home depot or online and get the proper sockets to fit under the fuel rail and use a torque wrench, dont wing t with a wrench; taking the entire manifold off, drilling the bolt remnants out, and then worrying about dirt/metal shavings in the intake ports of the heads is NOT fun. As a side note, it's also important to keep the pressure of the manifold bolts even so as to not buckle the sides under pressure, which may result in uneven gasket contact, at which point you might as well have loose bolts - def use a torque wrench.

ddalder
01-30-12, 10:56 PM
Even if you had a bolt made of a softer alloy, the torque spec is so light on these I find it difficult to think you'd snap one. That's why I was wondering if you inadvertently tightened it to Lb-Ft instead of Lb-In? Your torque wrench is probably not ideal either. I have a 1/4" drive and everything went very smoothly.

aliskerov
01-30-12, 11:33 PM
I have a lb-ft wrench, but it was set to 8. It was instant. No idea why. I've stripped and broken my share of bolts, and the oem one held on before it gave in (it just didn't seem as tight as the others and then after a turn and a half it simply snapped.). This one snapped without any hesitation. It was almost comedic, except for the one it snapped on...lol

EChas3
01-31-12, 11:23 PM
How old is your torque wrench? Have you ever had it calibrated?

I have a buddy that raced NHRA K Stocks. Once he had an 'expert' friend build him a motor promising 4/10's under the index (nationally competitive at the time). On his fifth run it blew. A lot of that 'expert's' motors blew that Summer. My bud checked what was left of his engine and one other from the same builder and found many nuts/bolts improperly torqued.

One bad torque wrench cost thousands.

Pjazz
02-01-12, 01:05 AM
Anyone else take it to the dealer? I've got a torque wrench but would preffer to use my cpo. On the other hand I don't want to deal with them blowing me off because they think I don't know what I'm talking about. You'd think there was a service bulletin on this.

scott9001
02-01-12, 07:29 AM
u can do it man its not a big deal dont bother taking it back to the dealer unless your really hesitant on doing this

MacMuse
02-01-12, 08:26 PM
I'm really hesitant, don't have a torque wrench, and I couldn't talk the dealer into checking it as an issue.

aliskerov
02-01-12, 08:53 PM
I didn't mean to scare people, just notify them of the possibilities. A torque wrench can be found at walmart/home depot/sears chain store for relatively cheap. I have a Husky wrench that's a year old. Hasn't been used enough to miscalibrate. It's def the bolt from home depot - for whatever reason some of them are very fragile/crappy; I've found this out over the years of doing projects around the house (the second replacement didn't break). Its a mix of bad bolt and murphies law, really, just had to happened after going through the trouble of taking everything apart... The OEM bolt weighs twice as much as the one that broke did. It's definitely worth doing though, the car seems a bit more aggressive on acceleration and the fuel economy is more hesitant to drop from city driving then t used to be. Just be more careful - tends to save time lol

jonnysos11
02-02-12, 04:05 AM
Bump for a useful thread. i had cured a lot of issues with my beauty by doing a simple tighten up. i saw improved gas mileage for the record

EChas3
02-02-12, 10:53 PM
High quality tools pay for themselves. Buy a Walmart torque wrench at your own risk. It's one tool that can 'break' and you might not notice until it's too late.

Lifer
02-04-12, 09:45 PM
Its only been a few days, but I have had a noticeable improvement in gas mileage. It was around 13.5 average for city - suburb driving, but now I am around 19.5. Next would be a road trip. My last on in August averaged 21 miles to the gallon. :thumbsup:

I checked mine yesterday. Two were loose again. Only 3,000 miles. Seems to be a continuing issue.

EChas3
02-04-12, 10:09 PM
Loctite Purple?

aliskerov
02-06-12, 07:01 PM
^ Might be a good idea. I'd suggest just tightening them for now to make it easy on yourself, cause it'll be hard/impossible to get all the bolts out without removing the fuel rail. Then, down the road, if you find them to be loose again, then you hit em with the loctite.


update: took my first 100-mile highway trip following this procedure and got up to 23 mpg avg, up from the usual 21. I like!

Pjazz
02-07-12, 09:28 PM
My torque wrench lowest setting was 15NM I used it anyway. Saw my MPG increase almost 4 gallons.

DitkaFan
03-02-12, 07:48 AM
Has anyone still in warranty approached their dealer about this issue? It seems pretty unacceptable that these bolts keep coming loose?

CTBB
03-02-12, 01:41 PM
"It's def the bolt from home depot -"
BIG MISTAKE using any of the cheap Chinese junk hardware from HD in a motor application, or any application that matters. Bolts like this are graded, and one should always make sure to replace them with the correct grade hardware. Check this out. http://www.boltdepot.com/fastener-information/Materials-and-Grades/Materials.aspx

Glenn

RippyPartsDept
03-02-12, 02:26 PM
or get them from your nearest GM dealer ... they're only $2-$3 each

CTBB
03-02-12, 02:51 PM
or get them from your nearest GM dealer ... they're only $2-$3 each

Matter of fact, I wasn't recommending them as a supplier, but for reference to my statement about hardware/bolt grading. Guess you didn't check the link? ;)

Glenn

RippyPartsDept
03-02-12, 04:14 PM
ah yeah i see... definitely a good link to have bookmarked

EChas3
03-02-12, 08:45 PM
When my wife's car was in for some other service, the dealer didn't charge for tightening them. They were surprised she asked them to check them and found them loose! She did take them brownies once!

The symptom was occasional rough idle when cold (backing out of garage). It never lit idiot lights or set codes but hasn't done it since.

DitkaFan
03-04-12, 09:50 PM
I was looking at purchasing an 09 STS n* from my local dealership. I asked for a double check of the intake bolts and got the following response... This seems like a sign to walk away, thoughts?
"Regarding the loose intake bolt issue you mentioned, each of our cars goes through an intensive 125-point inspection before hitting our sales lot. Also, known issues to a make and model are specifically examined by our mechanics as part of the inspection/re-conditioning process. We therefore can't ask them to re-check something that's already been inspected"

EChas3
03-04-12, 11:05 PM
I wouldn't let something so simple dampen my interest. I'd be detting a CPO warranty, anyway. If it runs well on test drives, you're covered.

They are arrogant, though. You might be wise to walk away.

Grunder
03-04-12, 11:09 PM
2008 STS4 V6 DI
I've read and re-read this thread, and so far the definitive answer to the question "does this also pertain to the V6 DI engine" has not been answered. Does anyone have the correct answer for this?

Is it just as easy to check as the N*, or is there more to it on the V6. Should it/can it be done anyway, just because? It seems that some of the same symptoms that have been listed throughout this thread are plaguing our V6, that's why I'm asking....

Thanks,
John

ddalder
03-04-12, 11:13 PM
"Regarding the loose intake bolt issue you mentioned, each of our cars goes through an intensive 125-point inspection before hitting our sales lot. Also, known issues to a make and model are specifically examined by our mechanics as part of the inspection/re-conditioning process. We therefore can't ask them to re-check something that's already been inspected"
Okay, $50.00 to the first person who can provide me with a legit pre-sales used car mechanical inspection form that states to check the torque on various engine bolts. This has to be one of the most ridiculous things I've heard from a used car salesman. If this was truly the case (that this has now been added to the 125 point inspection), I'd expect to have seen a service bulletin from GM about this ongoing issue. If you're happy with the car and it's in good shape, I don't know that I'd walk away if the price was right. This isn't necessarily a reflection on the service department either. But, this is one reason the consumer has to do their homework and be smarter than the salesman.

EChas3
03-04-12, 11:42 PM
The CPO Checklist includes both a fuel system check and vaccum system check.87710

ddalder
03-05-12, 03:12 AM
So let's be extra generous here and assume that the car actually underwent the 172 point CPO inspection (2011 year form).

http://www.gmcertified.com/themes/default/pdf/CPO_172-PointInspectionChecklist051811.pdf

The vacuum system and fuel system are included in "Engine Compartment" checks. To say they are checking these two systems is too vague. I'd like to know specifically what they check. There is clearly a supporting document behind this inspection form.

Call me sceptical ;)

DitkaFan
03-05-12, 11:57 AM
So let's be extra generous here and assume that the car actually underwent the 172 point CPO inspection (2011 year form).

http://www.gmcertified.com/themes/default/pdf/CPO_172-PointInspectionChecklist051811.pdf

The vacuum system and fuel system are included in "Engine Compartment" checks. To say they are checking these two systems is too vague. I'd like to know specifically what they check. There is clearly a supporting document behind this inspection form.

Call me sceptical ;)

The more I go back and read that email the more pissed of I become... I think I am going to send a polite email back letting them know I am no longer interested in the vehicle and cross that dealer off my list of places I spend my money going forward.

RippyPartsDept
03-05-12, 12:46 PM
i would try and talk to the service manager first ... could just be a bad service consultant

DitkaFan
03-05-12, 01:58 PM
Rippy,

sadly it was the sales person who told me this....

RippyPartsDept
03-05-12, 03:19 PM
oh well that makes even more sense...

talk to the service manager
explain your concern and see what they say

if they don't want to work with you then you've got to decide if the deal is good enough (or better than all the other options you've got) to stick with them

i can see why they would be hesitant to do this check if there's no check engine light (or codes) and the car seems to be idling and running fine

Subsailor613
03-05-12, 05:31 PM
also at 100 in/lbs.
Good Luck
"I Stand Corrected", another member mentioned 100 in/Lbs, and I hung onto
that incorrect setting, However did mine at 100, and had NO ill effects,
but could have cracked the intake ?I believe the correct setting is 89,
but 90 would work, as the difference is NOT noticeable

EChas3
03-05-12, 11:00 PM
OK DD! <Tip o'the hat>

If I heard a salesman like that, I don't know if I'd just walk out or go find the Sales Manager to tell him what a boob he has working for him.

I'm a repeat customer. My dealer sells high quality new and used premium cars. When a buyer has a concern, they have a pad of IOU forms. I like another dealer's service department more but I do appreciate their committment to the deal.

DitkaFan
03-06-12, 11:58 PM
I went by the dealer tonight and the sales manager is going to have the service dept look at it in the morning. After 3 car purchases there I didn't think I was asking too much :)

CTBB
03-07-12, 12:20 AM
Definitely not! If they wish to sell you a 4th they should bend over backward to set your concerns aside. Honestly, how long does it take to check those bolts? Took me all of 15 min!

Glenn

STSV8
09-12-14, 04:56 PM
Thank you very much I just tighten my own bolts and most of them were loose. I didn't have a 1/4 inch torque wrench so I ttighten them until I felt it was enough but since we don't have harbor freight up here in Canada. Can anyone recommend me a good one that I could order online? So far the car accelerates a lot better than before. For the same throttle position I used to only accelerate to about 25 mph and now I accelerate to 40. Hopefully it'll help on the gas mileage cause driving it easily only returned me about 12 mpg.