: Difference in gas guzzler taxes



mrk4543
08-25-11, 12:19 PM
I recently purchased a 2011 CTS-V Coupe, Black Diamond tricoat edition....great car. It is an automatic 6-speed. Was looking at some other CTS-V's on line and noticed that the standard transmission cars have a gas guzzler tax that is $1,300 whereas the automatic 6-speed is $2,600. I am curious as to why such a significant difference considering the gas mileage numbers are barely different.

thanks, Marty

kirbyCTSV
08-25-11, 12:33 PM
its based on a combined MPG scale (city/hwy).
Gas Guzzler Tax
Unadjusted MPG
city/highway combined)* Tax
At least 22.5 $0
At least 21.5, but less than 22.5 $1,000
At least 20.5, but less than 21.5 $1,300
At least 19.5, but less than 20.5 $1,700
At least 18.5, but less than 19.5 $2,100
At least 17.5, but less than 18.5 $2,600
At least 16.5, but less than 17.5 $3,000
At least 15.5, but less than 16.5 $3,700
At least 14.5, but less than 15.5 $4,500
At least 13.5, but less than 14.5 $5,400
At least 12.5, but less than 13.5 $6,400
Less than 12.5 $7,700

TheSpungos
08-25-11, 01:45 PM
If memory serves, the 1st to 4th skip-shift in the manual gets the City MPG rating up higher than the auto which leads to the lower tax number. At speed on the HWY the real-world MPG is virtually the same.

mrk4543
08-25-11, 01:48 PM
Thanks for the information. Another fine government program that could use some revamping.

thebigjimsho
08-25-11, 02:43 PM
CAGS, FTMFW! :hide:

JimmyH
08-25-11, 05:03 PM
More than half the time 1-4 pops up on the display in my Camaro, it still allows me into 2nd.

mrk4543
08-26-11, 10:05 AM
There are a couple of ways to get around or defeat the 'cags' system....one is to remove the fuse that activates it and the other is a by-pass fitting placed in the wiring at the transmission. Very easy install, if you have a lift or access to one, and the cost is around $20. I have one on my ZO6 and it truly relieves the frustration.

Marty

marktanner
09-04-11, 02:16 PM
CAGS almost never occurs in real driving in these cars. However, 100 lb weight difference (lighter in the MT) puts the car in a lower EPA weight category, which helps a lot, too. My CAGS has only tripped 3 times in 28 months of daily driving, BTW.

thebigjimsho
09-04-11, 11:50 PM
CAGS almost never occurs in real driving in these cars. However, 100 lb weight difference (lighter in the MT) puts the car in a lower EPA weight category, which helps a lot, too. My CAGS has only tripped 3 times in 28 months of daily driving, BTW.Yes, it's much less intrusive than in the V1...

mberisha
09-05-11, 06:13 AM
DAMN YOU CAGS...damn you! :bighead:

M5eater
09-05-11, 09:53 AM
CAGS almost never occurs in real driving in these cars. However, 100 lb weight difference (lighter in the MT) puts the car in a lower EPA weight category, which helps a lot, too. My CAGS has only tripped 3 times in 28 months of daily driving, BTW.

it's not that much.
motor-trend is quoted here saying 4254 for the 6L90E V,
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupes/1007_2011_cadillac_cts_v_coupe_test/viewall.html
and Edmunds quotes 4217 lbs for the Tremec
http://www.edmunds.com/cadillac/cts-v-coupe/2012/features-specs.html

and Left lane says it's 4237 for the tremec,
http://www.leftlanenews.com/cadillac-cts-v-coupe.html#

I've haven't seen somone quote 100lbs being tacked onto the automatics that had actually weighed the two cars

JimmyH
09-05-11, 02:34 PM
You can't go by Edmonds or kbb. I have found glaring errors on both of those sites.

Squirlz
09-05-11, 07:23 PM
I have not yet encountered the skip shift in 300 miles of driving my 2012 wagon.

M5eater
09-05-11, 07:51 PM
You can't go by Edmonds or kbb. I have found glaring errors on both of those sites.

Cadillac.com states 4213 for the manual(presumably as the tremec is a base option)

I have yet to see somewhere say the manual weighs X verified by us, and the automatic weighs X, on the same scale, and the difference is 100lbs with exactly the same options.

going back to edmunds, I did manage to find someone quote the magical 4313 number, but again, this was via a generalized review and there's no mention of options on their car or how they came by this number

I'm sure it does weigh more, I just have only seen hear-say and unconfirmed publications state it rather than two cars being on a scale to prove it is what I'm saying I suppose.

marktanner
09-06-11, 12:59 AM
The important thing to note is that the Tremec is less than 4250 lb, and the auto weighs more than 4250. That puts the auto in a heavier EPA weight class. Each class spans about 250 lb, and every car in each weight class runs against the same force on the dyno, from what I understand. Therefore, the auto will run as if it's 250 lb heavier than the stick on the dyno, regardless of the actual weight difference. IMO, this could easily result in the reduced EPA figures, when in real life, the difference might not be that great. I bet the figures would look even worse if the auto ran the same rear-end ratio as the stick. GM probably could have engineered the car for an even better EPA showing, but given the purpose of the car and the mindset of the potential buyers, any further trade-offs in performance for slight improvements in fuel economy would probably have cost sales, unlike the effect in more mainstream market segments.

JFJr
09-06-11, 12:59 PM
Yes, it's much less intrusive than in the V1...Absolutely! Guys, don't waste your time or money on wiring mods. I've got over 48,000 miles on my manual transmission car and the few times that CAGS has actuated, I barely noticed it because of the amount of torque generated by the LSA. You can keep it from actuating all the time by giving 1st gear a slight increase in throttle before shifting over what you might do in a more mundane car.

Jud