: tranny slipage on 97 deville



silverz06vette
08-19-03, 04:16 PM
Dads car...102k miles...tranny fluid never been changed.

Tranny warmed up....driving from a stop...getting tranny slippage.

Does not happen every time, but starting to happen more often.

Here are some of the codes:

1255
B1971
B2560
B0865
B1983

Thanks for your help!

Katshot
08-19-03, 05:00 PM
Those are IPC codes and NOT PCM codes. Matter of fact, I don't even see those codes in the book either (except one).
You need to get "P" codes.

silverz06vette
08-19-03, 10:06 PM
Well she is slipping real bad now. Will try and get the correct codes.

Here is a pic of some of the fluid that we got out:

http://www.z06vette.com/gallery/data/500/1028DSCN0164a.jpg

silverz06vette
08-19-03, 10:13 PM
The only PCM code was P0502

silverz06vette
08-19-03, 10:23 PM
DTC P0502 Vehicle Speed Sensor (VSS) Circuit Low Input

So looks like we will try and replace the VSS.

silverz06vette
08-19-03, 10:26 PM
Found this from another thread:

Vehicle Speed Sensor.

$21. at the dealership.

Remove left front tire, about half arms length thru wheel well on top of the transmission bell housing. Took about 45 minutes to replace, Hardest thing was working the one bolt out that held it in and undoing/doing the connector with one hand. Could not get both arms in there to work on it.

Will change the VSS and then take it for a fluid flush.

The VSS part # is 24204319

elwesso
08-19-03, 11:22 PM
And after the fluid flush, make sure you reserve some money for a new tranny..... It wont be too far away...... Some say (with GM trannys) that draining the pan and refilling seems to be better.... Something about a flush is too hard on it or something...... Id just drain/refill, and drop the pan and replace the filter..... I can only imagine the amount of varnish sitting in the bottom of the pan..... :vomit:

Honestly, Im surprised it lasted 102k without a fluid change........

silverz06vette
08-19-03, 11:29 PM
The little bit of fluid that we got out smelled alot like varnish. Is there a drain plug on the bottom of the pan? If so we may just drain it and refill.

On my 91 G20 I changed the fluid filter at 50k and 100k, the tranny went south at 112k. Then again I did beat the shit out of that car. She lasted till 187k, then the motor was starting to give way.

elwesso
08-20-03, 12:20 AM
Im pretty sure there is a plug on the bottom..... IF you didnt get much out, its probably all gooey and fused to the pan...... I would drain as much as you can, drain, clean the pan, replace the filter......... And then a few weeks later drain the pan and refill...... that way you get all the old crap out of there..........

2dfx
08-20-03, 02:28 AM
Dads car...102k miles...tranny fluid never been changed.

Tranny warmed up....driving from a stop...getting tranny slippage.

Does not happen every time, but starting to happen more often.

Here are some of the codes:

1255
B1971
B2560
B0865
B1983

Thanks for your help!
While you're at it...

B1971 = Inadvertent Power???
B1983 = Device power circuit low
1255 = The only 1255's I found were:

C1255 = EBCM Internal Malfunction
U1255 = Class 2 Communication Error, Serial Data Line Malfunction

B2560 = RKE Message Validation Error
B0865 Does not exist

silverz06vette
08-20-03, 09:59 AM
Im pretty sure there is a plug on the bottom..... IF you didnt get much out, its probably all gooey and fused to the pan...... I would drain as much as you can, drain, clean the pan, replace the filter......... And then a few weeks later drain the pan and refill...... that way you get all the old crap out of there..........

We got the little out thru the fill hole, Just wanted to see how bad it was. I'm sure it has more gunk in it when we drain it thru the bottom. Will let you know.

thanks for the other codes.

Katshot
08-20-03, 10:03 AM
If it's slipping now, chances are REAL good that it'll barely move after a flush but what do you have to loose?

silverz06vette
08-20-03, 10:06 AM
If it's slipping now, chances are REAL good that it'll barely move after a flush but what do you have to loose?

Hope we did not burn it up, going to get the VSS right now, Dealer down the road was $24.52 and other dealer is $19.09. You know where we are going.

www.gmpartdirect.com is about $17 shipped.

silverz06vette
08-20-03, 01:07 PM
No drainplug on the pan.

Here is what the pan looked like when we dropped it:

http://www.z06vette.com/gallery/data/500/3312DSCN0173.jpg

Here is what the bottom of the tranny looks like with the pan removed. You can see the two filters on the left and right:

http://www.z06vette.com/gallery/data/500/3312DSCN0176.jpg

This does not look good. We found this in the pan. The quarter is just their to show you the size:

http://www.z06vette.com/gallery/data/500/3312DSCN0180.jpg

Pan all cleaned up and ready to go back in:

http://www.z06vette.com/gallery/data/500/3312DSCN0177.jpg

Yes we did remove the piece that we found in the pan. We are hoping for the best, but we think it will need a rebuild. We shall see.

Going to change out the VSS now.

Looks like we only got out about 3 quarts by dropping the pan. The total capacity of the tranny is about 12 quarts. We did get all of that crap out of the pan so that is good. Will update again.

silverz06vette
08-20-03, 02:25 PM
Not good!!!

Relaced the VSS. Its in the right side wheel well, not the left like we had read from another thread.

Put 3 quarts of ATF in to get it close. Tried to back the car off the ramps and it would not move in Rev. Put the car in N and pushed it off the ramps. None of the gears selected would work. D, R, 3,2,1. Checked the fluid level and its between the hot range. Tranny is not really hot yet.

Found the correct procedure for checking the fluid level:

Transmission Fluid Checking Procedure

Notice
Applying the brake pedal during this procedure will affect the fluid level reading.


1.Start the engine and operate the vehicle for 15 minutes or until the transmission fluid reaches an operating temperature of 82-93C (180-200F).

2.Park the vehicle on a level surface.

3. With your foot on the brake, move the shift lever through each gear range. Pause for about three seconds in each range, ending in Park.

4. Apply the parking brake and let the engine idle for three minutes.

5.Remove the transmission fluid level indicator, wipe the indicator clean, and reinsert the indicator. Give the indicator a full twist to close.

6.Wait three seconds and remove the indicator.

7.Read both sides of the indicator. The fluid must be within the hot cross-hatched area using the lowest level reading.

So we will wait for it to warm up, then recheck the level. Hopefully the level will be low. We shall see.

silverz06vette
08-20-03, 02:46 PM
No good!!!

She won't move and the fluid level is good!

Calling the tow truck and off to the repair shop it goes.

Damm that hurts!!!

silverz06vette
08-20-03, 05:33 PM
Remove the right front tire and here is the VSS:

http://www.z06vette.com/gallery/data/500/3312DSCN0181.jpg

:( :( :(

http://www.z06vette.com/gallery/data/500/3312DSCN0184.jpg

Mad'lac
08-20-03, 05:45 PM
OUCH!!!! I feel for you. That's why I've always been afraid of messing with my transmissions.

elwesso
08-20-03, 11:33 PM
That sucks!!! Im sorry about it.... But at least it failed in your driveway instead of on the highway trying to pass someone........

I about vomited when I saw the pan....... Thats terrible!!! :vomit:

silverz06vette
08-21-03, 10:35 AM
Thanks for all your thoughts guys.

Owners manual says 100k for tranny service. Thinking about doing it every 2 yrs now or 30-40k miles. He puts alot of highway miles on it. He has had the car since 14k miles. he does not drive it hard at all.