: Mom wants to dump her Lexus. Suggestions for a new SUV?



Jesda
08-19-11, 04:19 AM
http://images.automotive.com/cob/factory_automotive/images/Features/auto_shows/2006_LAAS/2006_Lexus_GX470__rear.jpg

The Lexus GX470 she bought new in 2006 has been unimpressive. It's narrow and awkward, the side-folding third row seats occupy cargo space, the side-opening rear hatch is terribly impractical especially on windy days or when parallel parked, the Mark Levinson sound system from that era is bland (and likes to choose its own volume as if a ghost is playing with the knob -- dealer cant figure it out) and it's riddled with strange electrical glitches. The navigation system is terribly dated, even when it was new.

The creamy ride, mostly high quality interior, and ultra-refined V8 are its saving graces. It has 91,000 miles now with a trade-in value of $20k-$23k.


IMPORTANT CRITERIA:

SUV with AWD or 4WD and ample cargo space with the second row up.
Luxury badge.
Rear seat entertainment.
Three rows of seating.
Reasonably attractive.
V8 engine strongly preferred.
Dependability.
Bigger is better.
Brand new, no CPO or used. Demo models and 2011 leftovers are okay.
Under $70k


NOT SO IMPORTANT:

Fuel economy -- Why would you buy a luxury car if you were a miser? Duh.



WHAT HAS BEEN RULED OUT:

Jeep Grand Cherokee -- Its awesome inside and out, but she doesn't trust Chrysler.

Mercedes ML -- Too small for the price.

Infiniti FX50 -- That second-gen face looks like a hideous deep sea creature. Years ago she considered a first-gen FX45 but the cargo space was too small for child strollers and everything else she lugs around town, and the same is true of the FX50.

Cadillac Escalade -- She's interested, but I know she'll dislike the cheap interior. It has the look and prestige she wants but lacks refinement, and that transmission is a turd. It would be a contender if she was into leasing, but she intends to pay cash and keep whatever she buys for 200,000 miles.

Audi Q7 -- Audi no longer offers a V8 in the Q. She doesn't trust Audi anyway.

Volkswagen Touareg -- That whole trust/reliability problem, and the badge.

Lexus GX460 and LX460 -- Ugly as sin. Interiors got noticeably worse with the new generation. Toyota apparently stopped giving a shit. The outstanding Lexus service experience doesn't make up for these rolling abortions.

Porsche Cayenne -- No third row. Smallish cargo space. Costs an arm and a leg for a V8 engine.

Lincoln Navigator -- The Lincoln dealers around here are terrible. The current generation's exterior styling looks as if a Ford Expedition got the Vatozone treatment.

Land Rover/Range Rover -- Style and prestige are high. Reliability is seriously lacking.



CONTENDERS SO FAR:

Acura MDX -- She's owned two first-gen MDXes; one was excellent (wrecked by some guy in a Saab) and the other was poorly made. If I can convince her that a 300hp 3.7L V6 is enough, its by far the best bang for the buck. That nasty silver beak is a bit of a problem. Also, no V6 engine, even as good as Honda designs them, is going to sound or feel like any V8. The local dealer Acura dealer offers excellent service, though the brand itself is lacking in prestige.

Mercedes GL450 -- Expensive, but sharp looking with a beautiful interior. Can be had with rear entertainment and a V8 for a hair under $70k, making it a bit expensive. Reliability is a question mark.

BMW X5 -- Quite expensive with a V8, but if she could settle for a twin turbo six, it would be the nicest driver of the bunch.

Infiniti QX56 -- It looks better in person especially in black (to hide the awful bulges), but overall, its spectacularly ugly. Outstanding interior, gobs of technology, 400hp V8, and arguably the best bang for the buck out there. Did I mention how f**king ugly it is? Holy hell, was Infiniti serious?





Any other ideas?


The second-generation Cadillac SRX is too small and doesn't *appear* to offer a rear entertainment system for 2011, nor does it have a V8. The first-generation SRX with the Northstar 4.6 and revised 07+ interior would have probably been the perfect car for her, but GM decided it wasn't appealing enough to the lip gloss crowd so they replaced it with the rolling equivalent of a woman's shoe.

brandondeleo
08-19-11, 04:21 AM
She's ruled out all of the good ones... :suspense:

In all honesty, the Infinity is the best of the leftover bunch, as long as you ignore the fact that it looks like a bad Edvard Munch painting...

If it were me, the Grand Cherokee Overland Summit would be the first choice.

mberisha
08-19-11, 05:04 AM
X5 w/the V8....btw...I think the stock rear tires are 325s....sic!

I~LUV~Caddys8792
08-19-11, 08:24 AM
QX56 for me. Yeah, it's ugly (I recall making a thread about how ugly it was last summer), but it's grown on me, and you won't confuse it for anything else in the mall parking ramp. The interior however is beautiful, and it's got more power than the Escalade and it's got all the techno-goodies you'd ever ask for. Everything else you listed is a size smaller and less spacious inside.

After reading your initial description, I was going to suggest the Escalade, but you already ruled that out.

thebigjimsho
08-19-11, 02:44 PM
I'm a fan of the GL. It isn't as big as an Escalade ESV but it's more comfortable and its 3rd row is Big Jim friendly. And it looks like a proper SUV.

Lord Cadillac
08-19-11, 03:02 PM
My opinion based on the contenders, it would be between the X5 and QX56. If I wanted something really big, luxurious and plush, I'd take the Infiniti hands down. If I wanted something engaging and fun to drive - and head turning - I'd take the X5.

gary88
08-19-11, 03:07 PM
Save $12k on the base MSRP of the V8 X5 and get the diesel.

http://www.bmwusa.com/standard/content/vehicles/2011/x5/xdrive35d/default.aspx

It's pretty hard to option out the V8 with things you want like 3rd row seating, rear seat entertainment, navigation, etc while staying under $70k, however you can add nearly every conceivable option to the diesel and still stay under that.



http://i.imgur.com/PW4PC.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/qQhpB.jpg

JimmyH
08-19-11, 03:13 PM
enclave


SUV with AWD or 4WD and ample cargo space with the second row up. check
Luxury badge. check
Rear seat entertainment. dealer installed
Three rows of seating. check
Reasonably attractive. double check
V8 engine strongly preferred. oops
Dependability. check
Bigger is better. check
Brand new, no CPO or used. Demo models and 2011 leftovers are okay. um, check?
Under $70k $20k leftover for gas

vincentm
08-19-11, 03:38 PM
http://www.dailystoke.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/ford_bronco_surfboard.gif

OffThaHorseCEO
08-19-11, 04:38 PM
enclave


SUV with AWD or 4WD and ample cargo space with the second row up. check
Luxury badge. check
Rear seat entertainment. dealer installed
Three rows of seating. check
Reasonably attractive. double check
V8 engine strongly preferred. oops
Dependability. check
Bigger is better. check
Brand new, no CPO or used. Demo models and 2011 leftovers are okay. um, check?
Under $70k $20k leftover for gas

some may not agree about the luxury badge though.

orconn
08-19-11, 04:50 PM
Why exactly does "Mom" think she needs a new SUV, doesn't she realize that anything new she gets will also be cumbersome to drive, lacking in style and generally a gussied up and over priced truck that will only impress the ignorant status seekers she runs into.

Stingroo
08-19-11, 04:51 PM
*facepalm*

JimmyH
08-19-11, 06:09 PM
Well, I don't exactly understand myself why people want these huge SUVs, then use them to haul around 120 cubic feet of air.
I even own one of these monstrous vehicles, and I still don't understand it. I tried to talk the wife into a sedan, but she wasn't having it. She "needs" three rows and the ability to cart around her 300 lbs of Creative Memories. Happy wife=happy life.

MotownPimp
08-19-11, 06:26 PM
Man, you have one fussy mom. Acura sounds like best of the bunch for her in terms of practicality. But if prestige is the issue, good luck.

drewsdeville
08-19-11, 06:30 PM
Don't really have much to say here except for relation's experience with an X5 just a few years ago. It was a horrible vehicle, mechanically. The truck was at the dealer's garage monthly. During the last few weeks, it developed an intermittent problem where it randomly ran terribly - chugging, smoking, dying and failing to restart. After the truck left her stranded, she bailed on it.

However, I can't remember which engine it had.

This probably isn't the norm, but apparently it's not out of the question.

gary88
08-19-11, 06:31 PM
Wagons can do almost everything large SUVs can while being faster, handling better, and getting better fuel economy. We really need more of them on the roads here to replace the behemoth SUVs.

thebigjimsho
08-19-11, 06:46 PM
Don't really have much to say here except for relation's experience with an X5 just a few years ago. It was a horrible vehicle, mechanically. The truck was at the dealer's garage monthly. During the last few weeks, it developed an intermittent problem where it randomly ran terribly - chugging, smoking, dying and failing to restart. After the truck left her stranded, she bailed on it.

However, I can't remember which engine it had.

This probably isn't the norm, but apparently it's not out of the question.It obviously wasn't a diesel. You'd have been ejaculating the whole time...

thebigjimsho
08-19-11, 06:47 PM
Well, I don't exactly understand myself why people want these huge SUVs, then use them to haul around 120 cubic feet of air.
I even own one of these monstrous vehicles, and I still don't understand it. I tried to talk the wife into a sedan, but she wasn't having it. She "needs" three rows and the ability to cart around her 300 lbs of Creative Memories. Happy wife=happy life.And hauling drunk meat members around...

drewsdeville
08-19-11, 06:48 PM
It obviously wasn't a diesel. You'd have been ejaculating the whole time...

Correct, good sir. It was a gasoline burner of some type.

gary88
08-19-11, 06:53 PM
Also the X5 is assembled in the US :patriot: :usflag:

ryannel2003
08-19-11, 07:01 PM
I was gonna suggest certified Escalade Platinum, but no used vehicles. So between X5 and QX56, I'd go with the QX56.

greencadillacmatt
08-19-11, 08:36 PM
Too bad she doesn't trust Chrysler, the new Grand Cherokee is absolutely gorgeous, inside and out. :drool: :drool: :drool:

Jesda
08-19-11, 08:48 PM
Thanks everyone for the input, ideas, and suggestions!

After lots of looking and some test driving today, I have to say, I'm really impressed with the ugly-ass QX56. Its slightly less offensive to look at in person, at least in black, and if she can stomach the looks its by far the greatest bang for the buck ever on a luxury SUV.

The overhead-view camera is simply brilliant, making parking a breeze. Ride and handling are reasonably sharp for a house on wheels and the interior is simply exquisite. Infiniti did a very good job of picking out wood trim pieces and isn't ONE hard surface in the entire interior. The sales experience was particularly good. Bob Maher at Bommarito Infiniti in Ellisville MO was an absolute pleasure to deal with.

The Mercedes GL450 was sharp to look at and had a firm, sporty feel and a stout V8, but it was narrow inside and the doors had cheap hard panels that reminded me of the Escalade. The GL also lacked a touch screen, relying on a dated directional keypad to get around the menus. The second row seats were a PAIN to fold forward, requiring an unusually hard pull, after undoing the latch, to get it to flip. My mom spends half her day driving around town, and the monstrous QX is by far a nicer, quieter, and more comfortable place to hang out.

Infiniti already has a strong reputation for mechanical dependability, and the longer warranty coverage is a nice bonus. I'm not sure how I'd feel about my mother putting 100-150k on a Mercedes-Benz.

I'll put together a more thorough review later tonight or this weekend, but so far the QX56 is a winner, big time.

Size is probably going to be a major deciding factor. She already uses every cubic foot of her GX470 for cargo, and anything smaller is going to be counter-productive. This unfortunately rules out the BMW X5 which somehow manages to squeeze in a third row. The X5 and GL have diesel options but again, unless you're a "baller on a budget" [like me] trying to buy them used, who cares how much it costs to fill up?


I stopped to glance at the Acura MDX but didn't drive it. Its spacious inside, decent to look at aside from the beak and very reasonably priced but it doesn't feel like you're getting the deal of the century like you are in the QX.

I stopped at a Cadillac dealer but RAN LIKE HELL as soon as I could. The salesmen at Elco Cadillac are desperate vultures. "HEY! HEY YOU! LET ME GET YOU A CAR! HEY! STOP! WAIT! OH GOD PLEASE DONT LEAVE I OWE MY COKE DEALER A TON OF MONEY!"


Cadillac and Lincoln need to step up their game -- the retail experience ranges from outstanding to god-awful, with too much of the latter.


And of course, she could always just keep her truck and wait a few more years to see what's on the market. Her Lexus is glitchy and she's outgrown it, but it still starts and runs. Maybe the next generation QX will be as nice to look at as it is to drive?

Jesda
08-19-11, 08:49 PM
Also the X5 is assembled in the US :patriot: :usflag:

I'm going to avoid telling her that. :hide:

Playdrv4me
08-19-11, 08:55 PM
I'd consider Buick a premium brand now, but I don't know if I'd qualify it as Luxury.

We spent the day driving as many of these as we could, and after looking at the joke of a cargo area in the X5, it would be completely annihilated by the third row. Not to mention the insane amount BMW wants for their V8. As far as price is concerned, the Escalade and the X5 are by far the *worst* values of the bunch. I can't believe the 'lade still has the same old plasticky interior mine has, and STARTS at 64,000.00 with RWD. The one they had on the sales floor was 77,000.00. We laughed, turned around, and walked out. The salesman literally chasing us down the parking lot when we walked into Elco Cadillac/Chevrolet also reminded us about the lack of decorum she's going to get when she drops the thing off for any kind of service. So Escalade... OUT.

X5 hangs on by a TINY thread only because she mentioned it specifically as something she was interested in the last time her and Jesda talked about it. I think we had ruled it out, but because the third row is at least an option (when we looked in the cargo hold we couldn't imagine it even being available, but apparently, it is), I think we should drive one tomorrow.

The GL is also built in the U.S., and also down in the non-union South. It lacks the interior panache of many of the other contenders, but offers a solid combination of ride and drive composure, a prestigious appearance and exterior stance, and a dealership experience that is a cut above. At least at this particular dealer (Tri-Star), they offer complimentary vehicle pick up and drop off within the metro area for service. Very much like the Equus' concierge program. Also, even with the QX's 400hp motor, the GL felt like it was nearly if not just as quick. The 68k price of the GL is before a 2000.00 conquest rebate for drivers of Lexus, BMW, Acura, or other luxury brands. They also seem the most willing to negotiate, so I think it could be had for 62 to 64k with negotiation. Unfortunately, even at that price, it's still among the least equipped models. 68k will get you AWD, Nav, Rear Entertainment, Heated Seats, and that's about it. I don't even think Xenon headlights are included at that price.

Which brings us to the QX, which against all odds (all appearance odds?), stands out as the hands down winner in this category. For an MSRP of $64,545 (the same as the Escalade's ENTRY price), you get AWD, Rear Entertainment and Heated seats as you would expect. However, you ALSO get a TON of convenience and technology features that in some cases, aren't even available on the others. The Around View camera system is NO gimmick, it works FANTASTICALLY well and gives you a bird's eye view over the top of the vehicle and excellent side visibility. There's Bluetooth handsfree access, an excellent navigation system, XM NavTraffic, Bose audio, power fold forward second row seats to provide easy access to the third row, Adaptive Xenon headlights, 20 inch wheels, iPod and USB aux inputs, and a ton of things I don't even remember... in addition to offering genuine low range gearing on demand if needed. There's essentially zero available discounts on the QX and, as Jesda pointed out, that's because all the discounting is already built in, undercutting anyone else who even comes close. The LX570 still looks worse, and doesn't begin to compete on price.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
08-19-11, 09:14 PM
Jesda, what makes a sales experience a perfect one in your opinion?

Destroyer
08-19-11, 09:33 PM
I would rethink the Porsche Cayenne personally. Expensive as a turbo but if money isn't an issue................

Playdrv4me
08-19-11, 11:39 PM
I would rethink the Porsche Cayenne personally. Expensive as a turbo but if money isn't an issue................

It is to an extent, you'd be surprised how conservatively you have to pace yourself with these luxury SUVs when you cap yourself at 65-70k for a *new* vehicle purchase. It sounds like a crap ton, but it really doesn't buy you a whole lot except in the case of the QX56/Patrol. *I* was considering a used Cayenne Turbo to replace the 'lade, but given how much they cost to fix, and that I'm having a hard time finding anything worth while, we are likely switching gears (me and my brother, the Escalade is technically "his") and going to take what we would have put on a down payment and get a nice older used car instead, keeping the Escalade for now. There's a pending deal on a CL55 AMG, but if that doesn't work out, I am going the older cash car route (which is why the Jag could not have come at a better time). I'll be PM'ing you some questions soon, Nick.

gary88
08-20-11, 12:03 AM
*I* was considering a used Cayenne Turbo to replace the 'lade, but given how much they cost to fix...


There's a pending deal on a CL55 AMG...

http://i.imgur.com/7XPk4.gif

Jesda
08-20-11, 12:14 AM
http://i.imgur.com/7XPk4.gif

:histeric:


Jesda, what makes a sales experience a perfect one in your opinion?

I bet Tony could chime in on this in detail. For me, its knowledge more than anything else, and listening.

The sales process was relaxed -- he came across more like a vehicle expert and guide than a salesman. He didn't talk up Infiniti like it was the second coming of Christ and let the truck speak for itself, revealing features and options I may have overlooked if I was driving it on my own. He showed me some interesting tech features and emphasized characteristics that my mom would probably appreciate. To know what we wanted, he started out by asking questions, inquiring politely rather than coming at me with "WE HAVE A SPECIAL GOING HOW CAN I GET YOU INTO A NEW TRUCK TODAY! IF YOU CALL YOUR MOM RIGHT NOW WE CAN THROW IN RUSTPROOFING FOR HALF OFF AND I WILL EVEN PICK UP HER DRY CLEANING"

I never EVER go back to a dealer that uses the hard sell. That's not to say that it isn't effective, it just doesn't work on me. I'm an untethered self-employed guy with no wife, no kids, few debts, and no obligations, so anyone who puts the squeeze on me is basically asking me to run. I respond well to knowledgeable people who teach and inform me without being condescending. I'll bet that he's read some Dale Carnegie.

MotownPimp
08-20-11, 01:18 AM
The best way to deal with car dealers is don't. Use an experienced, reputable car broker.

I have not seen the inside of a dealership in a dozen years.

Playdrv4me
08-20-11, 02:18 AM
http://i.imgur.com/7XPk4.gif

Having an SUV that is insanely fast has kind of worn on me at this point, so I'm not really willing to deal with high priced fixes just to have that luxury. However, the CL55 is a so many magnitudes more incredible, and so powerful, the headaches are worth it. I considered M5s too, but the CL is much more of a grand touring style, and has freight train levels of torque. Still, I made a pretty low offer on the car, so I doubt we'll get it anyway.

brandondeleo
08-20-11, 04:14 AM
CL > M5 any day.

brandondeleo
08-20-11, 04:17 AM
"HEY! HEY YOU! LET ME GET YOU A CAR! HEY! STOP! WAIT! OH GOD PLEASE DONT LEAVE I OWE MY COKE DEALER A TON OF MONEY!" :histeric:

thebigjimsho
08-20-11, 12:03 PM
CL > M5 any day.Smoking crack.

brandondeleo
08-20-11, 12:06 PM
Merc > BMW

gary88
08-20-11, 12:17 PM
lulz

hueterm
08-20-11, 12:46 PM
Smoking crack.

2 doors will always beat 4...especially when they're big and Mercedes...

orconn
08-20-11, 12:47 PM
The best way to deal with car dealers is don't. Use an experienced, reputable car broker.

I have not seen the inside of a dealership in a dozen years.

That spoils all the fun!

MotownPimp
08-20-11, 01:37 PM
That spoils all the fun!

I can never decide if you guys that feel this way have more balls or less brains than I!

:D

orconn
08-20-11, 01:50 PM
I can never decide if you guys that feel this way have more balls or less brains than I!

:D

Having been a member of the financial community (Wall Street) for most of my career, I would say probably a bit of both!!

thebigjimsho
08-20-11, 08:32 PM
2 doors will always beat 4...especially when they're big and Mercedes...Unless we're talking roadsters, 2 doors are teh suck compared with 4.

96Fleetwood
08-20-11, 09:21 PM
QX56 all the way. If we needed the space, my wife and I would have looked at it more closely.

Night Wolf
08-20-11, 10:37 PM
Also the X5 is assembled in the US :patriot: :usflag:

All great things come to an end :(.

hueterm
08-20-11, 11:13 PM
Unless we're talking roadsters, 2 doors are teh suck compared with 4.

The point of a CL (or even more so, a Brooklands), is to have somewhat reasonably sized rear seats -- for a coupe -- but to have them for show.

"Yes...you could ride back there...but :umno:"

A premium price for the illusion of practicality and an overabundance of style.

Kind of like the V coupe....but attractive ;-)

Night Wolf
08-20-11, 11:27 PM
The point of a CL (or even more so, a Brooklands), is to have somewhat reasonably sized rear seats -- for a coupe -- but to have them for show.

"Yes...you could ride back there...but :umno:"

A premium price for the illusion of practicality and an overabundance of style.

Kind of like the V coupe....but attractive ;-)

Like a TransAm!

http://ls1tech.com/forums/attachments/appearance-detailing/230505d1273024708-firebird-vs-trans-am-seats-firebird-back-seats.jpg

brandondeleo
08-20-11, 11:29 PM
Like a TransAm!

http://ls1tech.com/forums/attachments/appearance-detailing/230505d1273024708-firebird-vs-trans-am-seats-firebird-back-seats.jpgYou think that's bad? My girlfriend drives a '99 Mercury Cougar. The back seats make those look plush...

gary88
08-20-11, 11:31 PM
All great things come to an end :(.

The X5 has always been assembled in South Carolina, even the first gen :noidea:

Night Wolf
08-20-11, 11:43 PM
The X5 has always been assembled in South Carolina, even the first gen :noidea:

Was referring to BMW as a whole.

Made in USA may be good for some things, but personally - if I'm buying a BMW, I want it built where it should be - Germany.

Heck, all the "Made in W. Germany" stamped in dozens of places/parts of my e28 really shows it's from a different era!

hueterm
08-20-11, 11:49 PM
Like a TransAm!

http://ls1tech.com/forums/attachments/appearance-detailing/230505d1273024708-firebird-vs-trans-am-seats-firebird-back-seats.jpg

Actually, no...

I said reasonably sized -- and the back of a T/A was for midgets only.

I also said overabundance of style...not overabundance of mullets...

brandondeleo
08-20-11, 11:52 PM
I also said overabundance of style...not overabundance of mullets...:histeric:

Jesda
08-20-11, 11:53 PM
A friend of mine works as an engineer for Nissan and sent me a certificate today for employee pricing. This effectively drops the price to just below invoice and eliminates the need for negotiation.


AWESOMESAUCE! Still need to take mom to go see it though.

Night Wolf
08-20-11, 11:56 PM
Actually, no...

I said reasonably sized -- and the back of a T/A was for midgets only.

I also said overabundance of style...not overabundance of mullets...

LOL! Mmmmmm mullets!

s2yfckjyj98

brandondeleo
08-20-11, 11:59 PM
A friend of mine works as an engineer for Nissan and sent me a certificate today for employee pricing. This effectively drops the price to just below invoice and eliminates the need for negotiation.


AWESOMESAUCE! Still need to take mom to go see it though.79229

gary88
08-21-11, 12:29 AM
Was referring to BMW as a whole.

Made in USA may be good for some things, but personally - if I'm buying a BMW, I want it built where it should be - Germany.

Heck, all the "Made in W. Germany" stamped in dozens of places/parts of my e28 really shows it's from a different era!

Quality among all their plants around the world is 100% identical.

They actually moved part of the US-export 3-series production to South Africa now to prevent having to make customers pay more because of the weak USD.

http://www.bimmerfile.com/2008/02/12/made-in-germany/

I still like knowing mine was built in Regensburg though :squid:

I~LUV~Caddys8792
08-21-11, 12:31 AM
Like a TransAm!

http://ls1tech.com/forums/attachments/appearance-detailing/230505d1273024708-firebird-vs-trans-am-seats-firebird-back-seats.jpg

The only people that think that are comfortable and spacious are those who rode the cattle trains in Poland in the '40s.

Rodya234
08-21-11, 12:40 AM
A friend of mine works as an engineer for Nissan and sent me a certificate today for employee pricing. This effectively drops the price to just below invoice and eliminates the need for negotiation.


AWESOMESAUCE! Still need to take mom to go see it though.

http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/8827/rickrossd.jpg

brandondeleo
08-21-11, 12:43 AM
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/844/rickrossd.jpg/Broken picture file. :crying:

Rodya234
08-21-11, 12:45 AM
^ been fixed!

brandondeleo
08-21-11, 12:47 AM
Yay! =D

Playdrv4me
08-21-11, 01:42 AM
The last gen M5, which was the last REAL M5, is a passing fad for guidos in every way except what it has under the hood. The exterior is up for interpretation, but the interior is downright AWFUL, lacking any serious attention to detail I expect in a car running 90 grand new.

This is timeless, and far more pleasing on a cross-country trip (I was *not* looking forward to an SMG again after the bone chattering shifting experience in my M3), not to mention being a supremely comfortable and elegant place to hang out...

http://pictures.dealer.com/m/motorwerksautomallbarrington/0064/dd8949730a0a00640119b1ca4177be86.jpg

Also, 4 out of 5 high priced escorts rate this the best back seat in the business...

http://pictures.dealer.com/m/motorwerksautomallbarrington/0188/dd8959be0a0a00640119b1caba07c42e.jpg

Night Wolf
08-21-11, 02:12 AM
The last gen M5, which was the last REAL M5, is a passing fad for guidos in every way except what it has under the hood. The exterior is up for interpretation, but the interior is downright AWFUL, lacking any serious attention to detail I expect in a car running 90 grand new.


By "last gen" M5, do you mean e34?

As it was the last M5 to be hand built, vs assembled on the production line as an answer to MB and Jag's high powered luxury sedans.

e34 also used the wonderful race inspired S38 I6, not a tuned version of everyones favorite Nikasil V8.

Playdrv4me
08-21-11, 02:58 AM
By "last gen" M5, do you mean e34?

As it was the last M5 to be hand built, vs assembled on the production line as an answer to MB and Jag's high powered luxury sedans.

e34 also used the wonderful race inspired S38 I6, not a tuned version of everyones favorite Nikasil V8.

No, I mean the E60 M5 with the "Dame Edna" face. I call that one the last real M5 because the powertrain was something exclusive to the car (a replacement M5 V10 block runs $40,000.00 new and $28,000 remanufactured), and truly spectacular when introduced.

That said, with as questionable as the looks and attention to detail on the REST of the car, and with all the electronic gadgetry standing between the driver and the pavement, I tend to prefer the CL55, E55, S55's much simpler brute power hit it with a hammer approach. Big engine, supercharged, fed through a balls simple beefed up 5 speed auto and then straight to the ground. I like the "seat of the pants" feel every bit as much as the end result too, and the AMG's neck snapping 516lb ft of torque is just unreal to boot.

96Fleetwood
08-21-11, 07:20 AM
http://pictures.dealer.com/m/motorwerksautomallbarrington/0064/dd8949730a0a00640119b1ca4177be86.jpg




I hope it has some starmark warranty left... the cost of pads/rotors alone could buy you Nick's Jaguar. Not to mention the airmatic suspension... eek!

Back on topic...

Jesda, did you look at the Sequoia Platinum?

hueterm
08-21-11, 09:47 AM
The last gen M5, which was the last REAL M5, is a passing fad for guidos in every way except what it has under the hood. The exterior is up for interpretation, but the interior is downright AWFUL, lacking any serious attention to detail I expect in a car running 90 grand new.

This is timeless, and far more pleasing on a cross-country trip (I was *not* looking forward to an SMG again after the bone chattering shifting experience in my M3), not to mention being a supremely comfortable and elegant place to hang out...

http://pictures.dealer.com/m/motorwerksautomallbarrington/0064/dd8949730a0a00640119b1ca4177be86.jpg

Also, 4 out of 5 high priced escorts rate this the best back seat in the business...

http://pictures.dealer.com/m/motorwerksautomallbarrington/0188/dd8959be0a0a00640119b1caba07c42e.jpg

I bought my DTS at MotorWerks...recommended. And the car is gorge...IF it holds up......

amunderdog
08-21-11, 10:07 AM
Nissan Murano
http://www.nissanusa.com/murano/specifications.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w45F-YVMJjA

amunderdog
08-21-11, 10:44 AM
Nissan Rogue
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N42Kx_8RRQU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UYZ6ONxkFQ

I~LUV~Caddys8792
08-21-11, 11:21 AM
I work part time at a Nissan dealer, and the Rogue/Murano are nice vehicles, but it looks like Jesda's mom wants something much larger and more luxury oriented...

brandondeleo
08-21-11, 01:27 PM
I like the Murano, but the Rogue is a little too... Idk.

gary88
08-21-11, 01:58 PM
By "last gen" M5, do you mean e34?

As it was the last M5 to be hand built, vs assembled on the production line as an answer to MB and Jag's high powered luxury sedans.

e34 also used the wonderful race inspired S38 I6, not a tuned version of everyones favorite Nikasil V8.

Lulz, the S62 from the E39 M5 is still actively used in racing today.

I think the M division knows what they're doing when it comes to motors.

orconn
08-21-11, 02:22 PM
I bought my DTS at MotorWerks...recommended. And the car is gorge...IF it holds up......

I wonder how your DTS holds up in the "escort" pole compared to the CL. Inquiring minds want to know!

brandondeleo
08-21-11, 02:26 PM
I wonder how your DTS holds up in the "escort" pole compared to the CL. Inquiring minds want to know!The DTS is a passenger-oriented car, in my opinion. Win for the DTS in this circumstance.

orconn
08-21-11, 02:31 PM
The DTS is a passenger-oriented car, in my opinion. Win for the DTS in this circumstance.

Well, now we know Brandon's true calling. Thank you for your input to the "escort" poll! Ha!Ha!

Jesda
08-21-11, 02:33 PM
Jesda, did you look at the Sequoia Platinum?

They're a good deal but the interiors are a bit too stark and trucky.

96Fleetwood
08-21-11, 03:09 PM
They're a good deal but the interiors are a bit too stark and trucky.

I agree. Like most Toyota products, the GX460 was too 4runner-esq inside and out. At least the new QX56 shares nothing with the Armada for 2011.

Playdrv4me
08-21-11, 04:57 PM
I hope it has some starmark warranty left... the cost of pads/rotors alone could buy you Nick's Jaguar. Not to mention the airmatic suspension... eek!

Back on topic...

Jesda, did you look at the Sequoia Platinum?

Airmatic is a walk in the park compared to this car's Active Body Control which is hydraulic. Still, with the right euro specialist everything can be done for reasonable money. Someone on the Benz forums had a complete failure of an ABC line and some accumulator piece, and still came out the door with a bill around 1k. More than acceptable for a car of this magnitude in my opinion.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
08-21-11, 05:04 PM
On a somewhat similar note to the original topic, I drove my first Lincoln Aviator yesterday at work. Very impressed! Between the tight steering feel and the more than ample power from it's melodic 32V 4.6L V8, it didn't feel like a large SUV. The interior was something to be proud of as well, I really liked the sleek looking center console with it's faux (but still very convincing) aluminum panels.

Playdrv4me
08-21-11, 05:08 PM
On a somewhat similar note to the original topic, I drove my first Lincoln Aviator yesterday at work. Very impressed! Between the tight steering feel and the more than ample power from it's melodic 32V 4.6L V8, it didn't feel like a large SUV. The interior was something to be proud of as well, I really liked the sleek looking center console with it's faux (but still very convincing) aluminum panels.

I completely forgot you sent me that text. I agree, the Aviator is very very nice, and the DOHC motor separates it from the run of the mill V8 Explorer drivetrain. It has essentially every option available in the Navigator, except possibly THX sound and the retractable running boards. They're also dirt cheap.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
08-21-11, 05:17 PM
Yeah, and their smaller size is more appealing to me than the gargantuan Navigator.

thebigjimsho
08-21-11, 06:29 PM
The last gen M5, which was the last REAL M5, is a passing fad for guidos in every way except what it has under the hood. The exterior is up for interpretation, but the interior is downright AWFUL, lacking any serious attention to detail I expect in a car running 90 grand new.

This is timeless, and far more pleasing on a cross-country trip (I was *not* looking forward to an SMG again after the bone chattering shifting experience in my M3), not to mention being a supremely comfortable and elegant place to hang out...

http://pictures.dealer.com/m/motorwerksautomallbarrington/0064/dd8949730a0a00640119b1ca4177be86.jpg

Also, 4 out of 5 high priced escorts rate this the best back seat in the business...

http://pictures.dealer.com/m/motorwerksautomallbarrington/0188/dd8959be0a0a00640119b1caba07c42e.jpg1. Thank you for not showing a pic of the Fisher Price dash.

2. Escorts worth the $$$ should be without a center console. Unless you just like to talk...

thebigjimsho
08-21-11, 06:34 PM
No, I mean the E60 M5 with the "Dame Edna" face. I call that one the last real M5 because the powertrain was something exclusive to the car (a replacement M5 V10 block runs $40,000.00 new and $28,000 remanufactured), and truly spectacular when introduced.

That said, with as questionable as the looks and attention to detail on the REST of the car, and with all the electronic gadgetry standing between the driver and the pavement, I tend to prefer the CL55, E55, S55's much simpler brute power hit it with a hammer approach. Big engine, supercharged, fed through a balls simple beefed up 5 speed auto and then straight to the ground. I like the "seat of the pants" feel every bit as much as the end result too, and the AMG's neck snapping 516lb ft of torque is just unreal to boot.516lb ft? meh.

thebigjimsho
08-21-11, 06:38 PM
630lb ft of torque is quite interesting, though. My house is on a corner lot and the street the driveway is on is at about a 10% grade. Then, to get in my driveway if you're coming from the bottom, you have to go up over the sidewalk and then down my short driveway. The V makes about 630 peak torque but most of that is available off idle. To make sure I don't bottom out, I enter the driveway slowly, usually at idle. If my foot is fully off the clutch, the car will lunge forward hardcore as it clears the sidewalk and starts to turn downhill. You BETTER have your feel on the clutch and brake or else you'll be into my garage in nothing flat.

Broad torque curve is broad.

Playdrv4me
08-21-11, 07:25 PM
630lb ft of torque is quite interesting, though. My house is on a corner lot and the street the driveway is on is at about a 10% grade. Then, to get in my driveway if you're coming from the bottom, you have to go up over the sidewalk and then down my short driveway. The V makes about 630 peak torque but most of that is available off idle. To make sure I don't bottom out, I enter the driveway slowly, usually at idle. If my foot is fully off the clutch, the car will lunge forward hardcore as it clears the sidewalk and starts to turn downhill. You BETTER have your feel on the clutch and brake or else you'll be into my garage in nothing flat.

Broad torque curve is broad.

I was comparing more to the M5's 300 something than the V. If I were looking to drop around twice as much, the V would certainly be high on the list.

Florian
08-21-11, 08:20 PM
the new Saab SUV....very nice looking.


F

orconn
08-21-11, 09:05 PM
Airmatic is a walk in the park compared to this car's Active Body Control which is hydraulic. Still, with the right euro specialist everything can be done for reasonable money. Someone on the Benz forums had a complete failure of an ABC line and some accumulator piece, and still came out the door with a bill around 1k. More than acceptable for a car of this magnitude in my opinion.

What are you waiting for? Buy one of these as soon as you can, let's face it everyone who can afford it should have at least one Mercedes CL in his life. So don't pass "go" don't use your get out of jail card, just get on over to the dealership and drive this baby home!

Jesda
08-21-11, 09:09 PM
the new Saab SUV....very nice looking.


F

That one's my personal favorite. I just wish the company wasn't on the verge of disappearing (and leaving everyone SOL on warranties).

Playdrv4me
08-21-11, 09:21 PM
What are you waiting for? Buy one of these as soon as you can, let's face it everyone who can afford it should have at least one Mercedes CL in his life. So don't pass "go" don't use your get out of jail card, just get on over to the dealership and drive this baby home!

I made a pretty low offer on the car (but fair for the market, they have it priced way high due to condition). We will see what the "end of the month" brings. No big deal if not, I'm really liking the idea of Destroyer's Jag too.

brandondeleo
08-21-11, 09:23 PM
I made a pretty low offer on the car (but fair for the market, they have it priced way high due to condition). We will see what the "end of the month" brings. No big deal if not, I'm really liking the idea of Destroyer's Jag too.I would prefer to have the Jag over the CL on any day, but that is just my personal taste.

orconn
08-21-11, 09:37 PM
I would prefer to have the Jag over the CL on any day, but that is just my personal taste.

Why is that, Brandon?

thebigjimsho
08-21-11, 11:09 PM
Because he is quirky! lol.

brandondeleo
08-21-11, 11:27 PM
:yeah:I'm odd. Lol. I like big, beastly, luxurious barges. The CL is a marvelous car, but the Jag is more... me. The Jaguar is quite a bit more 'loud' if you will. Flashy. As everybody on this forum knows, I never shut up. :postwhore3:I'm loud. I like cars that make one hell of a statement when they come onto the lot. The Jag just screams "Look at me! Hey! I said look at me, bitch!" The Mercedes is awesome :hitit2:, but it doesn't have the little quirks (like the folding rear tables and Jag hood ornament) that get me going. :woot:

hueterm
08-21-11, 11:35 PM
What are you waiting for? Buy one of these as soon as you can, let's face it everyone who can afford it should have at least one Mercedes CL in his life. So don't pass "go" don't use your get out of jail card, just get on over to the dealership and drive this baby home!

I think he already has...at least a W126 SEC...

Playdrv4me
08-21-11, 11:36 PM
1. Thank you for not showing a pic of the Fisher Price dash.

2. Escorts worth the $$$ should be without a center console. Unless you just like to talk...

Those seats are merely transport pods to my basement. The lack of rear doors inhibits escape.

http://www.q45.org/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/ashleyduprepost.jpg

Playdrv4me
08-21-11, 11:37 PM
I think he already has...at least a W126 SEC...

Man I loved that car. I wish it hadn't been such a rust bucket or I would have kept it.

orconn
08-21-11, 11:46 PM
^^^I just wondered, given your height, if the CL might not accommodate you better than the XJ. The big Merc's seem to fit taller people better than the Jags. Big Merc's have never been my cup of tea because I prefer sports sedans to the more cumbersome large German cars. But then I am only 5'10' and weigh in at 165 lbs so Jags and big Alfa's fit me just fine. I am not a fan of the "Leaper," especially when applied to XK's (sports & GT Jags, the height of "kitsch"). When it comes to impressing yourself behind the wheel the "Spirit of Ecstasy" takes the cake, with the good old three pointed star coming in a close second!

Playdrv4me
08-22-11, 12:38 AM
^^^I just wondered, given your height, if the CL might not accommodate you better than the XJ. The big Merc's seem to fit taller people better than the Jags. Big Merc's have never been my cup of tea because I prefer sports sedans to the more cumbersome large German cars. But then I am only 5'10' and weigh in at 165 lbs so Jags and big Alfa's fit me just fine. I am not a fan of the "Leaper," especially when applied to XK's (sports & GT Jags, the height of "kitsch"). When it comes to impressing yourself behind the wheel the "Spirit of Ecstasy" takes the cake, with the good old three pointed star coming in a close second!

I sat in an X300 series XJ many years ago, and while I was somewhat less... girthy... back then, Tall-wise I remember having no problem fitting comfortably.

Aron9000
08-22-11, 01:06 AM
I thought the back seat of the Trans Am was fine once you finally contorted yourself back there. For a sports coupe its awesome, go look at an SN95 Mustang or a Honda Predule if you want to talk about tight.

Anyways, I've never been a big fan of that generation CL or its S-class equivalent. I'd take the Jag any day of the week, less crap to break and the electronics are miles ahead of those early 2000's Benzes in terms of reliability. Never thought I'd say that about a Jag, but it does say a lot about my opinion on early 2000's Benzes.

Playdrv4me
08-22-11, 01:14 AM
I thought the back seat of the Trans Am was fine once you finally contorted yourself back there. For a sports coupe its awesome, go look at an SN95 Mustang or a Honda Predule if you want to talk about tight.

Anyways, I've never been a big fan of that generation CL or its S-class equivalent. I'd take the Jag any day of the week, less crap to break and the electronics are miles ahead of those early 2000's Benzes in terms of reliability. Never thought I'd say that about a Jag, but it does say a lot about my opinion on early 2000's Benzes.

The W220 based CL and S will never be the model of reliability, but they had most of the kinks worked out by 2003 (they had been around since 2000, and the pre-facelift cars WERE very problematic).

Jesda
08-22-11, 04:15 AM
Jags have more character, but the XJ isn't exotic. The CL is a six-figure stunner with six-figure repair bills.



I'd pick both.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
08-22-11, 07:25 AM
True. The CL is very rare, almost as much so as a Brooklands, and even rarer than a Continental GT (boy did they sell a lot of those...)

thebigjimsho
08-22-11, 09:42 AM
meh.

gary88
08-22-11, 01:36 PM
:yawn: