: Bought a new Honda Crosstour............Punish me!



Destroyer
08-18-11, 02:23 AM
Like the title says I purchased a new Honda Crosstour. This car will be replacing our beloved 2003 Jaguar XJ8. The Jaguar served us well for the past 13 months but the interior space did not suffice. On several occasions we simply needed something bigger. So, we went out looking for a new car. We didn't want another SUV and we definitely did not want a minivan for my wife. My wife saw a Crosstour outside a restaurant we frequent in the parking lot and she liked it (kinda aquired my quirky taste in cars) so I went and checked them out. The car drove fantastic! Nice power, very comfortable but lacks the upper end level in luxury we have become accustomed to through cars like the Jaguar and Mercedes. We test drove a Hyundai Sonata Turbo, a new Maxima and a new Passat TDI but decided on the Crosstour. Overall it is a perfect fit for our lifestyle even if it leaves us wanting for more in the refinement category. Got a great deal at our local Honda dealer and just could not pass it up. The styling is controversial but this is the story with many cars I buy and this strangely attracts me to certain vehicles. This is an EX model with pearl white/black interior http://automobiles.honda.com/crosstour/ . It will serve us well. BTW, the Jag is for sale :)

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z251/AstrocreepVIII/P8172201.jpg

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z251/AstrocreepVIII/P8172199.jpg

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z251/AstrocreepVIII/P8172198.jpg

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z251/AstrocreepVIII/P8172197.jpg


I hate to see this one go but simply have no use for it :

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z251/AstrocreepVIII/DSC00068.jpg

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z251/AstrocreepVIII/DSC00070.jpg

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z251/AstrocreepVIII/DSC00071.jpg

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z251/AstrocreepVIII/DSC00075.jpg

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z251/AstrocreepVIII/DSC00067.jpg

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z251/AstrocreepVIII/DSC00066.jpg

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z251/AstrocreepVIII/DSC00065.jpg

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z251/AstrocreepVIII/DSC00079.jpg

brandondeleo
08-18-11, 02:26 AM
1) the interior of the Crosstour makes up for the exterior, in my opinion.
2) OMG LOVE YOUR JAG!!!!!

Destroyer
08-18-11, 02:36 AM
1) the interior of the Crosstour makes up for the exterior, in my opinion.
2) OMG LOVE YOUR JAG!!!!!Thank you. The Jaguar is a car I will truly miss. It is "more" car than the Honda but the Jag is small inside and I need bigger. The Honda is deceptive. It is actually a very large vehicle. I have had well over 150 cars and the Jag ranks very high on my list. Too bad I don't have a use for it. Right now I have 4 cars and only 2 drivers in my household. It's gonna hurt seeing this one drive away.

Stingroo
08-18-11, 02:37 AM
Thread about Honda...

more photos of Jaguar.

You can't explain that.

Playdrv4me
08-18-11, 02:42 AM
Really?! You Nick?! You, king of used cars Nick...

E320 CDI Wagon, E350 Bluetec Wagon, E55 AMG wagon, BMW 5 Series wagon... ANYTHING but this... It's not so much that I'm disappointed with the Crosstour itself (though I really can't stand them), but rather that with your excellent connections and frugality you would just break down and buy a brand new car, and a Crosstour of all things. Different strokes for different folks I guess.

Wish I could get the Jag, that car will serve someone beautifully for many years to come.

Destroyer
08-18-11, 02:43 AM
Thread about Honda...

more photos of Jaguar.

You can't explain that.Trying to sell the Jag. Explained!! :)

Destroyer
08-18-11, 02:48 AM
Really?! You Nick?! You, king of used cars Nick...

E320 CDI Wagon, E350 Bluetec Wagon, E55 AMG wagon, BMW 5 Series wagon... ANYTHING but this... It's not so much that I'm disappointed with the Crosstour itself (though I really can't stand them), but rather that with your excellent connections and frugality you would just break down and buy a brand new car, and a Crosstour of all things. Different strokes for different folks I guess.

Wish I could get the Jag, that car will serve someone beautifully for many years to come.You are correct Ian. I am a failure! :) I haven't purchased a new car since '01 and I have NEVER leased a car like I did with the Crosstour. It just seemed right for peace of mind's sake. It is the wifes car afterall. I am contemplating a new Mustang GT for myself though. Unfortunately this means the Cutlass is next. I don't know whats going on man, I'm at a point where easier is just better. Go figure. :)

Playdrv4me
08-18-11, 02:50 AM
You are correct Ian. I am a failure! :) I haven't purchased a new car since '01 and I have NEVER leased a car like I did with the Crosstour. It just seemed right for peace of mind's sake. It is the wifes car afterall. I am contemplating a new Mustang GT for myself though. Unfortunately this means the Cutlass is next. I don't know whats going on man, I'm at a point where easier is just better. Go figure. :)

What's funny, is that as it relates to the car forum world, the response and shock on my face when I read the thread title and saw the poster, was about the same as when I heard that Google spent 12.5b on Motorola this past Monday LOL. "Wait, what?!".

gary88
08-18-11, 02:53 AM
http://cdn1.knowyourmeme.com/i/000/097/663/original/whywouldyoudothat.jpg?1297133519

Destroyer
08-18-11, 03:10 AM
What's funny, is that as it relates to the car forum world, the response and shock on my face when I read the thread title and saw the poster, was about the same as when I heard that Google spent 12.5b on Motorola this past Monday LOL. "Wait, what?!".Believe me when I say I have battled the Japanese car for a long time. My wife REALLY wanted an LS460 but I can't see spending that much, a used LS430 was more up my alley but she wanted new and this is what we came up with. I would have preferred a newer S Class Mercedes. Still, the Crosstour is a very good driver with acceptable mpg (18/27). It is going to make many long trips and that is something I was reluctant to do in the Jag (it does have 109k miles on it) and ended up using my E250 van most of the time. I do agree with you that this is out of character for me but it's her car and the kids like it. She is stuck with it for 3 years, lol. :)

Jesda
08-18-11, 03:22 AM
1. Buy new eyewear
http://lenscrafters.weebly.com/uploads/3/1/0/0/3100551/78935_orig.jpg

2. Walk into your garage

3. Realize what you've done and

4. http://www.gifmania.us/South-Park/Stan/stan-pota.gif

Jesda
08-18-11, 03:23 AM
As for strange Honda purchases, you're not alone.

Rolex once owned a Ridgeline. :D

brandondeleo
08-18-11, 03:51 AM
Oh my god... The Ridgeline is sooo disgusting. The Avalanche is bad enough, but the Ridgeline is a whole new level of ugly.

ga_etc
08-18-11, 04:12 AM
I would give my eye teeth for the Jag...

ben.gators
08-18-11, 05:24 AM
http://miggyzaballero.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/spanking.gif

I~LUV~Caddys8792
08-18-11, 08:34 AM
I don't have a funny GIF, but let's just say I'd never own a Crosstour. However, it's your money and you did with it what you saw best fit.

Hopefully you can buy that Mustang GT and still save some face. :lol: :)

96Fleetwood
08-18-11, 10:12 AM
I actually like the Crosstour and almost test drove one but went to see the new Acura TSX wagon instead. I was impressed with the TSX wagon! Once they bring the 6 speed manual version, I may have to take another look.

How much for the Jaguar ;) ?

brandondeleo
08-18-11, 10:14 AM
How much for the Jaguar ;) ?Hell no. It's mine! :suspect: Hahahaha

Destroyer
08-18-11, 11:09 AM
I actually like the Crosstour and almost test drove one but went to see the new Acura TSX wagon instead. I was impressed with the TSX wagon! Once they bring the 6 speed manual version, I may have to take another look.

How much for the Jaguar ;) ?I've got it on Craigslist for $6800. Negotiable of course.:)

Jesda
08-18-11, 01:27 PM
Very reasonable price!

I'd be all over it if I wasn't getting my Seville back from Ian.



Congrats on the Honder, good luck with the sale.

ted tcb
08-18-11, 02:57 PM
I actually like the front end style of the Crosstour, kind of looks like a CRZ on steroids.
Of course, I drive an ES350, so my sense of style is obviously tainted:)
Makes sense in Destroyer's case to buy new, because he is obviously looking for the most car for
the least monthly rent payment, with lots of warranty. Plus, you want your wife in a dead solid reliable
vehicle.
I'm sure if Nick was purchasing a car, it would've been a lightly used, highly depreciated model with lots of warranty.


Nick, it looks like you're selling the Jag for about what you paid for it, which is a pretty sweet deal for you.
When you bought the Jag, you mentioned on the Jag forums that you had some kind of niggling issue, can't
remember what it was (suspension?).
Did you ever address it, or was it no big deal in the end?

Stingroo
08-18-11, 05:16 PM
18/27 mpg? That's abysmal. My wagon can nearly match those numbers (typical for me is 18/24).

Jesda
08-18-11, 05:53 PM
Your wagon won't get looks from Melissa Etheridge fans.


So, your loss, bro.

Stingroo
08-18-11, 05:58 PM
I don't even know who this is.

gdwriter
08-18-11, 06:01 PM
Not a fan of the looks (actually of any current Accord), but as a Honda, it's going to be reliable, hold its value well, and drive with more verve than a Toyota. If it suits your family and makes your wife happy, that's really all that matters. But I don't blame you for not liking having to sell the Jag. That's a beautiful car.

Playdrv4me
08-18-11, 06:17 PM
Ohh Emm Gee that Jag is tempting.

Jesda
08-18-11, 06:25 PM
I don't even know who this is.

Christ, you're young. :)

Stingroo
08-18-11, 06:46 PM
21 soon....

Remember, remember the Fifth of November. :thumbsup:

OffThaHorseCEO
08-18-11, 07:19 PM
I don't even know who this is.

melissa etherdige, thats "come to my windowww" right?

Stingroo
08-18-11, 07:22 PM
:noidea:

OffThaHorseCEO
08-18-11, 07:34 PM
youngblood

do you know who Speedy Gonzales is?

Stingroo
08-18-11, 07:59 PM
Andale andale! Arriba! Arriba!

OffThaHorseCEO
08-18-11, 08:43 PM
i forgot youre hispanic, of course you know who he is.

the most famous (the only?) hispanic looneytunes character had to be a damn stereotype...

Stingroo
08-18-11, 08:45 PM
Yeah, pretty much. :lol:

thebigjimsho
08-18-11, 09:01 PM
Controversial styling? The Crosstour is downright disgusting and that is from someone who doesn't mind Honda or Acura styling. Agreed above on the TSX wagon being a much better option...

Destroyer
08-18-11, 10:12 PM
I actually like the front end style of the Crosstour, kind of looks like a CRZ on steroids.
Of course, I drive an ES350, so my sense of style is obviously tainted:)
Makes sense in Destroyer's case to buy new, because he is obviously looking for the most car for
the least monthly rent payment, with lots of warranty. Plus, you want your wife in a dead solid reliable
vehicle.
I'm sure if Nick was purchasing a car, it would've been a lightly used, highly depreciated model with lots of warranty.


Nick, it looks like you're selling the Jag for about what you paid for it, which is a pretty sweet deal for you.
When you bought the Jag, you mentioned on the Jag forums that you had some kind of niggling issue, can't
remember what it was (suspension?).
Did you ever address it, or was it no big deal in the end?True on all counts. If this keeps the wife happy, I'm happy :). To it's credit it's a nice useful vehicle that isn't boring to drive and I'm liking some of the features on it. On the other hand I expected more quality on the inside (a problem I have with many newer cars). This isn't my first Honda and I remember them being very high quality on the inside (cheap ones too) even if they weren't necessarily luxurious. The current lease rates on Honda's are phenominal so I figured why the hell not?

I am going to get pretty close to what I paid for the Jaguar. I always do this and my cars end up becoming effectively (almost) free. This is why my N* Deville pissed me off, it didn't work out as planned :). I know buying cars like Mercedes, Porsche's, BMW's and Jag's is a crap shoot. I've been lucky with them and I love European luxury cars. I have guys that do the work for me for pennies on the dollar of what a certified tech charges and they do good work. The Jag wore out all 4 tires on the inside when I got it within the first 2k miles or so. It was strange because they looked like they had a lot of rubber on from casually looking at them but the inner sides were bald! Took it to the dealer and it turned out to be that the car needed an alignment.......badly. Replaced all 4 tires and did the alignment and it was fixed. No more wear. Dealer also pointed out that it needed an 02 sensor (check engine light on) and that one of the valve cover gaskets was leaking internally. To fix the sensor and do the gasket the dealer wanted like $3k. I didn't do the O2 sensor or the valve cover gasket which does not leak from the outside and I sure can't see or feel any problems with. I was gonna have the mechanic next door to my warehouse fix these issues but the car runs great and doesn't miss a beat so I left it alone. Previous owner that had the car for three years said the check engine light for the 02 sensor was on the whole time he had it too.

Destroyer
08-18-11, 10:18 PM
Ohh Emm Gee that Jag is tempting.I'll knock another grand off for anyone here. :)

Playdrv4me
08-18-11, 10:20 PM
Older Jags seem to be a textbook case of "best to leave well enough alone". If it runs good and reliably, I probably wouldn't bother fixing it either, though I *would* get in the IP and remove the damn light, as it would drive me nuts.

Destroyer
08-18-11, 10:28 PM
Older Jags seem to be a textbook case of "best to leave well enough alone". If it runs good and reliably, I probably wouldn't bother fixing it either, though I *would* get in the IP and remove the damn light, as it would drive me nuts.Right. The car runs fantastic, doesn't leak a drop of anything, A/C is the best I've seen, stereo even sounds great. If I didn't know the mileage I would never guess it was anywhere near 109k, more like 45k. The paint/interior are beautiful (headliner is starting to sag a bit in the rear, common issue with these). It's almost not even worth selling it for the paltry price it will bring but I have absolutely no use for it.

ted tcb
08-19-11, 12:23 AM
Ok, so Ian will buy the Jag, drive it for 6 months, then buy a Range Rover and flip the Jag to Jesda.
Jesda will drive it for 2 months, find it too pretentious for St Louis, buy a Miata, then drive the Jag
up to Toronto and sell it to me:)
By that time (8mo), it should be worth about $3k Cdn, which should equal $5k USD by next April:)

I~LUV~Caddys8792
08-19-11, 12:35 AM
That things uglier than 1,000 blown headgaskets. :)

greencadillacmatt
08-19-11, 01:01 AM
I don't mind the Crosstour. I like that slung-back shape. The front is eh, but the overall shape is cool. :hide:

ga_etc
08-19-11, 02:37 AM
Ok, so Ian will buy the Jag, drive it for 6 months, then buy a Range Rover and flip the Jag to Jesda.
Jesda will drive it for 2 months, find it too pretentious for St Louis, buy a Miata, then drive the Jag
up to Toronto and sell it to me:)
By that time (8mo), it should be worth about $3k Cdn, which should equal $5k USD by next April:)

Almost... Ian should buy it, drive it for 6 months or until he gets tired of listening to me whine and sells it to me.

Playdrv4me
08-19-11, 03:03 AM
I am so extremely tempted to scoop it up. The problem is I have to wait a few weeks for Jesda to give me the cash for the Seville. That car is right up my alley right now.

Aron9000
08-19-11, 03:17 AM
This IMO is such a better wagon option for 25k or whatever you spent on that ugly ass Honda . . . .

http://images.thecarconnection.com/sml/2010-volkswagen-jetta-sportwagen-4-door-dsg-tdi-angular-front-exterior-view_100314053_s.jpg

Get one with the TDI diesel(that's right at 25k nicely equipped) and it gets 40mpg!!! It might not be as quite as big inside as your Honda, but I know somebody who has one and says it has more space than her old Volvo v70 wagon. Also I think this car has the NICEST interior for any car under 30k, by a pretty good margin IMO. Diesel VW's have the best resale of any car, they're right up there with Toyota Tacomas. Drive it for 3 years and 40k miles, sell it for $5000 less than what you paid for it.

brandondeleo
08-19-11, 04:54 AM
I was 2 years old when Come To My Window was released, but I know it and I like it. Lol. My music tastes range from the 1920's to now...

Just for the sake of late '80s early '90s female vocalists, here's one of my favorites of that generation:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfqEisOIMJc&feature=fvwrel

I~LUV~Caddys8792
08-19-11, 09:20 AM
I am so extremely tempted to scoop it up. The problem is I have to wait a few weeks for Jesda to give me the cash for the Seville. That car is right up my alley right now.

Forget the Seville. You've already owned like 8 of those. How many clean XJ's have you had?? :)

ted tcb
08-19-11, 11:14 AM
I am so extremely tempted to scoop it up. The problem is I have to wait a few weeks for Jesda to give me the cash for the Seville. That car is right up my alley right now.

Ian, car guys like us, people who go through multiple cars every year, know there is one rule that must be
adhered to.
If a great deal pops up, jump on it.
You can't wait, you have to make it work. Those who wait never get the truly special deals that
wait for no man.
Play with funds, get the Jag, drive it for a year, then flip ... what could it cost you, possibly $1k to 2k in
depreciation to own a Jag for a year.
Orconn says that every car enthusiast should own at least one Jag in their lifetime (or is that one Alfa:))
If I lived in the States, I would fly in and drive that Jag home.
For me in Canada, its not worth the RIV customs forms, taxes, and compliability rules.
Plus, the Jag would be a great local driver, but I wouldn't subject it to a 1,500 mile road trip.

Time for me to live vicariously ... but wow, what an incredible road trip thread you and Jesda would
compile.
"Went To Florida To Pick Up My New $6K Jaguar":)

ted tcb
08-19-11, 11:19 AM
This IMO is such a better wagon option for 25k or whatever you spent on that ugly ass Honda . . . .

http://images.thecarconnection.com/sml/2010-volkswagen-jetta-sportwagen-4-door-dsg-tdi-angular-front-exterior-view_100314053_s.jpg

Diesel VW's have the best resale of any car, they're right up there with Toyota Tacomas. Drive it for 3 years and 40k miles, sell it for $5000 less than what you paid for it.

Destroyer didn't pay $25k, he leased the Crosstour.
His intention was to pay the least amount of monthly rent, then run away from the car at the lease
expiration.
He doesn't care about residual buyback figures, interest rates, resale, repairs, etc.
He just wants to put out the least amount of money every month for a vehicle that satisfies his wife.

Makes sense.

Stingroo
08-19-11, 11:27 AM
Ian, car guys like us, people who go through multiple cars every year, know there is one rule that must be
adhered to.
If a great deal pops up, jump on it.
You can't wait, you have to make it work. Those who wait never get the truly special deals that
wait for no man.
Play with funds, get the Jag, drive it for a year, then flip ... what could it cost you, possibly $1k to 2k in
depreciation to own a Jag for a year.
Orconn says that every car enthusiast should own at least one Jag in their lifetime (or is that one Alfa:))
If I lived in the States, I would fly in and drive that Jag home.
For me in Canada, its not worth the RIV customs forms, taxes, and compliability rules.
Plus, the Jag would be a great local driver, but I wouldn't subject it to a 1,500 mile road trip.

Time for me to live vicariously ... but wow, what an incredible road trip thread you and Jesda would
compile.
"Went To Florida To Pick Up My New $6K Jaguar and stopped to see Roo....":)

Fixed. :thumbsup:

orconn
08-19-11, 11:43 AM
Destroyer didn't pay $25k, he leased the Crosstour.
His intention was to pay the least amount of monthly rent, then run away from the car at the lease
expiration.
He doesn't care about residual buyback figures, interest rates, resale, repairs, etc.
He just wants to put out the least amount of money every month for a vehicle that satisfies his wife.

Makes sense.

Exactly, makes sense. Contrary to the opinion of some, leases do make sense under certain circumstances.

Destroyer
08-19-11, 09:54 PM
This IMO is such a better wagon option for 25k or whatever you spent on that ugly ass Honda . . . .

http://images.thecarconnection.com/sml/2010-volkswagen-jetta-sportwagen-4-door-dsg-tdi-angular-front-exterior-view_100314053_s.jpg

Get one with the TDI diesel(that's right at 25k nicely equipped) and it gets 40mpg!!! It might not be as quite as big inside as your Honda, but I know somebody who has one and says it has more space than her old Volvo v70 wagon. Also I think this car has the NICEST interior for any car under 30k, by a pretty good margin IMO. Diesel VW's have the best resale of any car, they're right up there with Toyota Tacomas. Drive it for 3 years and 40k miles, sell it for $5000 less than what you paid for it.I test drove a '12 Passat with the TDI. I like it but I wanted something bigger. The Honda fit the bill AND it was much cheaper to lease (remember that leases are based on depreciation) even though they both stickered at $30k.

Destroyer
08-19-11, 09:59 PM
I don't mind the Crosstour. I like that slung-back shape. The front is eh, but the overall shape is cool. :hide:I actually like the way it looks. It's different and I've always liked different. It's not sexy like a Jag, it doesn't scream "class" or anything. It's just different and the back does kind of remind me of my 928 Porsche the way it is rounded and of course the hatchback. It's funny but when I had my 928 there were a lot of people that thought it was ugly too. It's a love it or hate it deal with cars like this. I hardly ever see them on the street like I do Hyundai Sonata's (for instance) so I know this wasn't everyone's cup of tea. This actually makes me want one more. :)

Destroyer
08-19-11, 10:02 PM
That things uglier than 1,000 blown headgaskets. :)Not sexy like a Buick Regal right? :)

ryannel2003
08-19-11, 10:03 PM
We just got a '12 Passat TDI at work and it's pretty nice, but I noticed it alot of tire noise. The wind noise was suppressed, but the tires were extremely noisy which annoyed the crap out of me. That and the fact it stickers for $34k was enough to have me saying no thank you. The Jetta SportWagen's are nice, but damn they are expensive and not exactly the most reliable vehicles in the world. Even though the Crosstour isn't the prettiest vehicle in the world in the long run it's definitely going to be more reliable than the VW and offers up more room.

Playdrv4me
08-19-11, 10:05 PM
Forget the Seville. You've already owned like 8 of those. How many clean XJ's have you had?? :)

Oops, I should have worded that better. I mean the Jag is right up my alley, but I have to wait on Jesda to get me the cash (which should only be two to three weeks away) for the Seville. Maybe I'll have a talk with Nick and make sure it's what I want, then give him a good deposit (if that's ok with him of course). We'll see.

Destroyer
08-19-11, 10:15 PM
Exactly, makes sense. Contrary to the opinion of some, leases do make sense under certain circumstances.Thank You Orconn. $300/month including everything on a 35/month lease with $950 total down for a vehicle that stickers a tad over $30k. Sounded good to me. $3600/year seems reasonable to me if for not anything else, piece of mind. I've never leased a vehicle before and I haven't purchased a new vehicle since '01 when I bought a new Isuzu Trooper. I never liked payments but my way of thinking is changing. One way or another you do end up paying money, even for a used car. Hell I've dumped over $4k in my '67 Cutlass this year and I barely even drive the thing, hell I'm nowhere near finished with it either. I just couldn't bring myself to buy a regular Accord, Camry or Hyundai.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
08-19-11, 10:18 PM
Not sexy like a Buick Regal right? :)


I dunno about you, but I find this to be particularly attractive.
http://buickturboregal.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/1987gnx.jpg

Destroyer
08-19-11, 10:19 PM
We just got a '12 Passat TDI at work and it's pretty nice, but I noticed it alot of tire noise. The wind noise was suppressed, but the tires were extremely noisy which annoyed the crap out of me. That and the fact it stickers for $34k was enough to have me saying no thank you. The Jetta SportWagen's are nice, but damn they are expensive and not exactly the most reliable vehicles in the world. Even though the Crosstour isn't the prettiest vehicle in the world in the long run it's definitely going to be more reliable than the VW and offers up more room.The Passat has great gas mileage but I'm not crazy about owning a diesel. The Passat was also $440/month lease with $3k down +TTT. Didn't make sense for me to consider it.

Destroyer
08-19-11, 10:21 PM
I dunno about you, but I find this to be particularly attractive.
http://buickturboregal.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/1987gnx.jpgI love 70's/80's G Body cars and have owned several. I used to battle with GN's back in the 80's with my GT Mustang. When the 'stang was stock they used kick my ass. Eventually I modded my Stangs and participated in the Mustang/GN shootouts in NJ. Those were the days. :)

I~LUV~Caddys8792
08-19-11, 10:25 PM
The 86-87 Grand National, especially the GNX, is arguably the best thing Buick has ever sold.

Destroyer
08-19-11, 10:31 PM
The 86-87 Grand National, especially the GNX, is arguably the best thing Buick has ever sold.The GN's always got me off the line. No wheel spin and that is where I always had problems. On a roll they won only once in a while. I still would prefer an older GS 455 Stage 1. When I worked at an Autonation dealership maybe 13 years ago we got an '87 GN in on trade. I bought it for $1400 (can you believe that). Turbo wasn't working but it still looked and drove fine. Flipped it for 4 times that amount.

Destroyer
08-19-11, 11:29 PM
Oops, I should have worded that better. I mean the Jag is right up my alley, but I have to wait on Jesda to get me the cash (which should only be two to three weeks away) for the Seville. Maybe I'll have a talk with Nick and make sure it's what I want, then give him a good deposit (if that's ok with him of course). We'll see.Ok with me Ian. Come down, see/drive the car. I already turned down a $5600 offer on it but I'll let it go for that amount to someone here. Let me know. :)

thebigjimsho
08-20-11, 12:49 PM
I actually like the way it looks. It's different and I've always liked different. It's not sexy like a Jag, it doesn't scream "class" or anything. It's just different and the back does kind of remind me of my 928 Porsche the way it is rounded and of course the hatchback. It's funny but when I had my 928 there were a lot of people that thought it was ugly too. It's a love it or hate it deal with cars like this. I hardly ever see them on the street like I do Hyundai Sonata's (for instance) so I know this wasn't everyone's cup of tea. This actually makes me want one more. :)You did not just compare your Crosstour to your 928, did you? You shooting straight tequila?

Destroyer
08-20-11, 03:59 PM
You did not just compare your Crosstour to your 928, did you? You shooting straight tequila?LOL. Not car vs car but just saying how it was a love it or leave it deal styling wise with both. :)

thebigjimsho
08-20-11, 09:34 PM
Love 928. Urinate on Crosstour.

cadillac kevin
08-22-11, 12:30 AM
I saw a 928 day at a used car dealership. it was cool looking but had definitely seen better days. it was half gray and half blue and looked like crap.
I'd still take that over a crosstour anyday.

btw honda knockoff of AMC= FAIL

brandondeleo
08-22-11, 12:34 AM
79260

I~LUV~Caddys8792
08-22-11, 12:46 AM
I'll always associate 928's with smooth talking columbian cocaine dealers.

http://www.imcdb.org/i002587.jpg

brandondeleo
08-22-11, 12:53 AM
...and I will always associate the '62 Cadillac Series 62 with "Deez two yoots" and "Mud in your tires"

orconn
08-22-11, 01:36 AM
I'll always associate 928's with smooth talking columbian cocaine dealers.

http://www.imcdb.org/i002587.jpg

What about Tom Cruze and delectable Miss Demornay in "Risky Business"

Playdrv4me
08-22-11, 01:58 AM
Miami Vice, despite the obvious Ferrari connection, is always the first thing that comes to mind when I think of AMG...

http://www.imcdb.org/i021654.jpg

Aron9000
08-22-11, 02:13 AM
I'll always associate 928's with smooth talking columbian cocaine dealers.

http://www.imcdb.org/i002587.jpg

Tony Montana was Cuban BTW. He'd punch you in the face for calling him Columbian, he hated the Columbians.

Funny thing was my best friend's dad growing up had a Silver 928. It had different wheels than the one in the movie, but other than that it was exactly the same. Looking back on it now, the guy was such a hardcore square that I'm sure he had never seen Scarface.

Stingroo
08-22-11, 02:23 AM
I've never seen Scarface.

:(

Aron9000
08-22-11, 02:38 AM
^ Make that the next thing on your netflix!!!

Stingroo
08-22-11, 02:43 AM
I no longer have netflix either.

lol

The-Dullahan
08-22-11, 05:25 AM
Thread about Honda...

more photos of Jaguar.

You can't explain that.

Explanation provided.

One is a Jaguar and even if someone dislikes Jags, the other will still be "Only a Honda"

The-Dullahan
08-22-11, 05:25 AM
I no longer have netflix either.

lol

I have about a thousand free Netflix download codes, because people give me them, but I prefer ThePirateBay.org.

thebigjimsho
08-22-11, 10:37 AM
You have plenty of booty?

OffThaHorseCEO
08-22-11, 02:29 PM
I've never seen Scarface.

:(

BLASPHEMY!!!

Oddly enough, (and this is a really odd statistic) Scarface is on the list of "top movies people PRETEND to have watched, when they really havent". Of course to pretend to have watched it all you have to do is quote a line or imitate a character. Tony Montana is probably up there with Don Corleone as one of the most imitated gangsters.

Pacino was a lead role in both movies, Pacino is the man

OffThaHorseCEO
08-22-11, 02:31 PM
Also, Scarface is one of the only 80's movies i still see at big stores on a regular basis, and it still sells for $13 when i saw it at wally world

Destroyer
08-22-11, 06:15 PM
I've never seen Scarface.

:("Say hello to my lil friend". Definitely watch Scarface but make sure Carlitto's Way makes it on your list too. :)

Destroyer
08-22-11, 06:21 PM
Explanation provided.

One is a Jaguar and even if someone dislikes Jags, the other will still be "Only a Honda"One is a brand new car the other an 8 year old car with 109k miles. "Only a Honda" is a hell of statement when you consider that a Honda retains much more of it's value than almost any car. I sold the Jag today for $6k. An '03 Civic goes for more than that. The '03 Civic stickered under $20k new, the Jag about $60k (similar story with Cadillacs)1 big repair on the Jag could cost more than a years worth of payments on the Honda. I played it safe this time. :)

orconn
08-22-11, 08:20 PM
BLASPHEMY!!!

Oddly enough, (and this is a really odd statistic) Scarface is on the list of "top movies people PRETEND to have watched, when they really havent". Of course to pretend to have watched it all you have to do is quote a line or imitate a character. Tony Montana is probably up there with Don Corleone as one of the most imitated gangsters.

Pacino was a lead role in both movies, Pacino is the man

If you have seen "Scarface" all the way through, you are sure not to forget it!

OffThaHorseCEO
08-22-11, 08:27 PM
has anyone here seen the original scarface in black and white?

It was kinda cool you could tell when someone was gonna die because there was always an x somewhere on the screen

ted tcb
08-22-11, 09:17 PM
One is a brand new car the other an 8 year old car with 109k miles. "Only a Honda" is a hell of statement when you consider that a Honda retains much more of it's value than almost any car. I sold the Jag today for $6k. An '03 Civic goes for more than that. The '03 Civic stickered under $20k new, the Jag about $60k (similar story with Cadillacs)1 big repair on the Jag could cost more than a years worth of payments on the Honda. I played it safe this time. :)

Congrats on selling the Jag quickly.
Of course, the secret to used flips is buying the car right, so the Jag's depreciation from new isn't relative
in your case ... you bought if for $6 and change, then sold it for about the same, negating any real depreciation.

I take it Ian wasn't ready to grab the Jag?

Jesda
08-22-11, 09:25 PM
I don't think I'd want to put 109k on a modern day Honda, not because it would cause me any trouble, but because I'd get more happiness from putting as many miles on my bicycle.



RIP 1990s Honda

Destroyer
08-22-11, 09:56 PM
I don't think I'd want to put 109k on a modern day Honda, not because it would cause me any trouble, but because I'd get more happiness from putting as many miles on my bicycle.



RIP 1990s HondaI'm not going to put 109k miles on it. It's a 3 year lease @15k miles per year for a maximum of 45k miles. I am actually enjoying this vehicle that everyone seems to want to barf and urinate on :) (I'm sure there are other bodily fluids or even mushy chunks that even more would throw at it). It has great space, very supportive seats, very good power (271hp v6) and all the options one needs. It does 0-60 in 7 seconds and the 1/4 mile in 15.6........not too far off a N* Cadillac. If the mpg seems dismal @ 18/27 consider it is a MUCH larger vehicle than the XJ with around the same power and the XJ averaged 15mpg. It's no Jaguar, Mercedes, Bimmer or even a Cadillac (upper Cadillac as anything is better than a CTS) but it will do the job with minimal headaches. I'm happy as hell with the lease price and my family is really liking the car. The kids really liked the Jag and so did the wife and I but nobody really cared that it was gone today. :)

Destroyer
08-22-11, 10:03 PM
Congrats on selling the Jag quickly.
Of course, the secret to used flips is buying the car right, so the Jag's depreciation from new isn't relative
in your case ... you bought if for $6 and change, then sold it for about the same, negating any real depreciation.

I take it Ian wasn't ready to grab the Jag?Thanks Ted. I knew the car would sell quickly at that price and in the condition it was in. I didn't hear anything other than what was posted on here from Ian so I assumed he was just considering it and not ready to pull the trigger. I paid more for my '67 Cutlass needing much more work than I did for the Jag. The idea of buying older cars and having to keep dumping money into them is losing it's appeal to me. :)

Stingroo
08-22-11, 11:26 PM
Maturity.

I cringe thinking I will reach that stage someday myself. :(

Glad the family is happy, and glad you've now got $6k in your pocket :)

hueterm
08-23-11, 01:16 AM
Selling the Jag almost pays for the Honda's lease. And in 3 years, some drastic repair would be certain to plague the Jag, and then you would be upside down. Plus, if your wife likes it, that's just icing...

brandondeleo
08-23-11, 01:28 AM
Happy wife, happy life. That's all that matters.

Jesda
08-23-11, 01:46 AM
I'm not going to put 109k miles on it. It's a 3 year lease @15k miles per year for a maximum of 45k miles. I am actually enjoying this vehicle that everyone seems to want to barf and urinate on :) (I'm sure there are other bodily fluids or even mushy chunks that even more would throw at it). It has great space, very supportive seats, very good power

I'm less baffled with her choice of car and more astounded with Honda's directive to intentionally build ugly wrecks, as if you can't have space, comfort, dependability, and aesthetics in one vehicle.




As for marriage and wives, I don't get it and I don't know why people do it, but that's another subject for another thread. :D


Happy wife, happy life. That's all that matters.

Ball and chain problems.

brandondeleo
08-23-11, 01:49 AM
I have not been impressed by any designs by Honda. Ever. EXCEPT for the S2000. Not impressive, but very nice looking.

gdwriter
08-23-11, 01:52 AM
I'm less baffled with her choice of car and more astounded with Honda's directive to intentionally build ugly wrecks, as if you can't have space, comfort, dependability, and aesthetics in one vehicle.I still have great respect for the reliability, comfort and solid driving dynamics Honda builds into its cars. It's just a shame most of them have gotten so fugly. When I look at the current fat-ass Accord coupe vs. the sleek '99 I used to have, I wonder what went wrong in Honda's styling department.

But if you and the wife like your Crosstour, who cares what anybody else thinks, right?

Jesda
08-23-11, 01:57 AM
NSX
Prelude
S2000
90s Accords
Some 90s Civics
Integra
First and second-gen Legend and Legend Coupe
Early 2000s TL Type-S
Last-generation TL
CL coupe


At least they still make the best minivan on the market, otherwise Honda is dead to me.


One of the best road trips I've ever done was in a 1992 Civic hatchback:

http://jesda.com/2011/02/07/50-mpg-spokane-to-portland-1992-honda-civic-hatchback/

brandondeleo
08-23-11, 02:03 AM
You drove through Washington and didn't visit me? OFFENDED

Jesda
08-23-11, 02:05 AM
I'm going to answer my own question.


GM fell into a trap where it invented and chased after niches as a way of expanding its market share. Focus groups and analysts dictated designs to designers rather than designers presenting ideas to analysts for viability. The same could be happening at Honda.

As GM pursued niche after niche (HELLO AZTEK!), its core products, aside from Corvette, Cadillac, and truck products which enjoyed some autonomy within the organization, began to fall by the wayside. It wasn't like some aspiring artist at GM's design studios set out to draw the Lumina. Some dickwad somewhere in the organization slapped together a heavily manipulated report that said bland, tube-shaped cars with X amount of space and X number of features would sell trillions of units. Management said "OKAY LETS DO THAT!" and listened to hacked-together statistics instead of human inspiration.




Honda was once an inspired company. Now they're chasing niches and building jets while their cars, crossovers, and SUVs suffer.

brandondeleo
08-23-11, 02:10 AM
Some dickwad somewhere in the organization slapped together a heavily manipulated report that said bland, tube-shaped cars with X amount of space and X number of features would sell trillions of units. Management said "OKAY LETS DO THAT!" and listened to hacked-together statistics instead of human inspiration.EXACTLY. Automakers no longer care about innovation and inspiration, great design and beauty accompanied by power, luxury and practicality, but they have moved on to profit optimization and unit sale maximization.

Destroyer
08-23-11, 08:33 AM
I have not been impressed by any designs by Honda. Ever. EXCEPT for the S2000. Not impressive, but very nice looking.I never liked Japanese cars. In 2000 I bought 2 new Camry's and they both gave a lot of problems (oil sludge build up) but had warranties and held up well otherwise. In '01 I bought a new Isuzu Trooper which I liked but had terrible resale value. I also bought a '98 Accord V6 Coupe from a family member. Styling wise I didn't much care for any of these vehicles. In other words I see Japanese cars as appliances, rather good ones. They don't get me excited but they do the job better than cars I'm actually passionate about and they have much better resale value.

Jesda
08-23-11, 03:38 PM
For the most part, yes, they've always been transportation devices, but then there's the Datsun 1600/roadster, Datsun 510, Datsun Z, 300ZX, Supra, Celica (older ones), MR2 (older ones), SC400, NSX, Legend Coupe, 3000GT, and on and on and on.

In addition to everyday transportation, Japan built the kinds of cars a kid of the 80s could dream of owning. Not so much anymore.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
08-23-11, 09:13 PM
I saw a Crosstour from behind today, and I kind of stopped and stared at it, because it reminded me of something, but I couldn't figure out what....

http://www.carblank.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/The-Honda-Crosstour-Using-Domestic-and-Globally-Sourced-Parts-Rear-Angle.jpg


Then it dawned on me...
http://pictures.topspeed.com/IMG/crop/200609/2007-chrysler-crossfire-4_460x0w.jpg


(How you like them apples Jesda?)

Stingroo
08-23-11, 09:18 PM
LOL I was going to say Crossfire.


That's funny.

orconn
08-23-11, 09:43 PM
I just don't see the advantage of the "Crosstour" and other similar designs over a "station wagon." The best thing about the Audi 5000S Avant that I had was its' design ( everything else was questionable). The new "fast back" designs like the Crosstour sacrifice too much of the rear head room and load space height to be of any interest to me.

gary88
08-23-11, 10:02 PM
I just don't see the advantage of the "Crosstour" and other similar designs over a "station wagon." The best thing about the Audi 5000S Avant that I had was its' design ( everything else was questionable). The new "fast back" designs like the Crosstour sacrifice too much of the rear head room and load space height to be of any interest to me.

Agreed, it's like the answer to a question nobody ever asked.

Destroyer
08-23-11, 10:03 PM
I saw a Crosstour from behind today, and I kind of stopped and stared at it, because it reminded me of something, but I couldn't figure out what....

http://www.carblank.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/The-Honda-Crosstour-Using-Domestic-and-Globally-Sourced-Parts-Rear-Angle.jpg


Then it dawned on me...
http://pictures.topspeed.com/IMG/crop/200609/2007-chrysler-crossfire-4_460x0w.jpg


(How you like them apples Jesda?)Thats funny that you pointed that out Chad. I was scavenging through the classifieds on Craigslist and ran across a Crossfire. FIRST thing that popped in my head was that it was shaped just like the Crosstour. Hmmm. :)

Destroyer
08-23-11, 10:06 PM
I just don't see the advantage of the "Crosstour" and other similar designs over a "station wagon." The best thing about the Audi 5000S Avant that I had was its' design ( everything else was questionable). The new "fast back" designs like the Crosstour sacrifice too much of the rear head room and load space height to be of any interest to me.The Crosstour has lots of head room in the back......no sacrifice there. Load space height is unquestionably sacrificed vs an SUV but the Crosstour is actually a pretty large vehicle, perhaps larger than one assumes by looking at the pics.

brandondeleo
08-23-11, 10:32 PM
Head room is important to me, as well as many of us, considering I am well over 6 feet tall... Lol. I absolutely hate riding in the back seat of our Charger. The rear headroom is dismal.

Destroyer
08-23-11, 10:36 PM
Head room is important to me, as well as many of us, considering I am well over 6 feet tall... Lol. I absolutely hate riding in the back seat of our Charger. The rear headroom is dismal.I'm 6' 3" and I feel small in the Honda. I was very large in the Jag though. :)

I~LUV~Caddys8792
08-23-11, 10:50 PM
Agreed, it's like the answer to a question nobody ever asked.

Much like the X6, 5 Series GT, Aztek, etc

Destroyer
08-23-11, 11:07 PM
Much like the X6, 5 Series GT, Aztek, etcIf so many companies are producing vehicles of the sort..........somebody must have asked for them. Look, it rains a lot here in FL which means flash floods and I frequent beaches where you often have to travel a bit on sand and ditches and so forth. AWD or 4wd is not necessary for me but a vehicle that is lifted a bit for this kind of terrain and weather is beneficial. I don't want a big honkin gas guzzlin SUV (my E250 Ford guzzles enough) either so a vehicle like this makes sense for someone like me. The very nice ride and very decent performance are pure icing on the cake for me. I agree that to most this vehicle doesn't make any sense but it does in my situation and automotive needs. :D

brandondeleo
08-23-11, 11:19 PM
I never thought about that! Lol. The Crosstour and Crossfire look very similar.

hueterm
08-23-11, 11:30 PM
And the Panamera...well...sort of...

hueterm
08-23-11, 11:31 PM
The Crosstour has lots of head room in the back......no sacrifice there. Load space height is unquestionably sacrificed vs an SUV but the Crosstour is actually a pretty large vehicle, perhaps larger than one assumes by looking at the pics.

It may be smaller than a Pilot, but it's bigger than an Accord sedan. As the aforementioned "appliance", it is the most practical design.

I would rather have it than either of the above.

Night Wolf
08-23-11, 11:34 PM
I don't think I replied in this thread yet, but congrats! As I mentioned in the other thread (where I first heard/saw this car) I think it is neat, looks good and is atleast sort of unique in a mess of blobs.

My girlfriend saw one recently and really liked it too.

Jesda
08-23-11, 11:49 PM
(How you like them apples Jesda?)

I think those apples are badly bruised and should be turned into juice.

Destroyer
08-23-11, 11:55 PM
I think those apples are badly bruised and should be turned into juice.Denial is a bitch. I understand. :)

Night Wolf
08-24-11, 12:07 AM
Lots of new concepts and designs in automotive history was an answer to a question nobody asked.

I still think the comment about the Crosstour being similar to a modern day AMC Eagle is fitting, which makes me like it more.

Jesda
08-24-11, 12:07 AM
Denial is a bitch. I understand. :)

So you'll do as I did and rid yourself of the disease. :D

Destroyer
08-24-11, 12:10 AM
So you'll do as I did and rid yourself of the disease. :DNah! I think it will be a bit more reliable than that POS. :cool2:

Jesda
08-24-11, 12:12 AM
Nah! I think it will be a bit more reliable than that POS. :cool2:

That AMG-powered POS was at least a crapton of fun to drive on the rare occasions it wasn't broken. :histeric:




The Crosstour will blend in nicely at Whole Foods, hopefully blocked from view by a Tahoe. :D

Jesda
08-24-11, 12:15 AM
I still think the comment about the Crosstour being similar to a modern day AMC Eagle is fitting, which makes me like it more.

The AMC Eagle had a couple cool features, one being the ability to leave the pavement.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcXC5IUOdFk

If it continued to evolve and stay in production, I imagine it might look something like a Pacifica.

Destroyer
08-24-11, 12:16 AM
That AMG-powered POS was at least a crapton of fun to drive on the rare occasions it wasn't broken. :histeric:




The Crosstour will blend in nicely at Whole Foods, hopefully blocked from view by a Tahoe. :DI'll bet it was a lot of fun to drive and I base the POS comments on your experience with the car. I would have liked to take that Crossfire for a spin. I like the looks of the Crossfire but I doubt I'd be too comfy in one.

Jesda
08-24-11, 12:20 AM
I'll bet it was a lot of fun to drive and I base the POS comments on your experience with the car. I would have liked to take that Crossfire for a spin. I like the looks of the Crossfire but I doubt I'd be too comfy in one.

It was absolutely riddled with bugs. The 4.8 second run to 60mph, laughably low resale value, and whale tail spoiler made up for for some of the ugly, but I wouldn't have another unless it was a roadster (or an SLK). The coupe's visibility was awful too. It was a concept car that was never quite finished.

orconn
08-24-11, 12:25 AM
It was absolutely riddled with bugs. The 4.8 second run to 60mph, laughably low resale value, and whale tail spoiler made up for for some of the ugly, but I wouldn't have another unless it was a roadster (or an SLK). The coupe's visibility was awful too. It was a concept car that was never quite finished.

Hargh, hargh, hargh .... zend it over to the Amerikans, zhey will buy anything! Yah, das ist right, Hans

Destroyer
08-24-11, 12:25 AM
It was absolutely riddled with bugs. The 4.8 second run to 60mph, laughably low resale value, and whale tail spoiler made up for for some of the ugly, but I wouldn't have another unless it was a roadster (or an SLK). The coupe's visibility was awful too. It was a concept car that was never quite finished.Despite all that, it was still cool and will be a collectible some day. :yup: Blind spots are pretty bad in the Crosstour as well.

brandondeleo
08-24-11, 12:31 AM
Blind spots? The C pillars in the DeVille are like a foot long. Lol

Night Wolf
08-24-11, 12:33 AM
The AMC Eagle had a couple cool features, one being the ability to leave the pavement.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcXC5IUOdFk

If it continued to evolve and stay in production, I imagine it might look something like a Pacifica.

You copied my link from the other thread... well not the same one, this one has lame music...

brandondeleo
08-24-11, 12:35 AM
^That's impressive for any off-road vehicle.

Night Wolf
08-24-11, 12:42 AM
ewww it's all off-roady, muddy, dirty-y and bumpy

Playdrv4me
08-24-11, 01:02 AM
I saw a Crosstour from behind today, and I kind of stopped and stared at it, because it reminded me of something, but I couldn't figure out what....

http://www.carblank.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/The-Honda-Crosstour-Using-Domestic-and-Globally-Sourced-Parts-Rear-Angle.jpg


Then it dawned on me...
http://pictures.topspeed.com/IMG/crop/200609/2007-chrysler-crossfire-4_460x0w.jpg


(How you like them apples Jesda?)

Man, that color really makes the Crosstour look AWFUL. I'd still take the CF between those two if it were based on looks alone.

I remember Honda tried to be clever and do the Crosstour's world-wide launch via Facebook. The comments were so negative they ended up scrapping the whole plan if I recall.

Jesda
08-24-11, 01:20 AM
Despite all that, it was still cool and will be a collectible some day. :yup: Blind spots are pretty bad in the Crosstour as well.

The SRTs and roadsters might have some very very distant future collectibility... very distant... like... the distance from here to Jupiter.

gdwriter
08-24-11, 01:49 AM
Oh, dear. I hadn't really seen the ass end of the Crosstour. What has been seen cannot be unseen. :bulging: Damn you, Chad!

Stingroo
08-24-11, 01:50 AM
Saw one roll through campus today on the way to my 4pm class.

I felt queasy.

brandondeleo
08-24-11, 11:41 AM
Mucho kudos to Destroyer for putting up with the jokes about the Crosstour. Just saying. You have far more patience than I do. Lol

Stingroo
08-24-11, 02:15 PM
It's because he has the Cutlass for man points.

He's still very much ahead.

Destroyer
08-24-11, 09:18 PM
Mucho kudos to Destroyer for putting up with the jokes about the Crosstour. Just saying. You have far more patience than I do. LolTo be honest, there aren't that many on the streets for a vehicle going into it's 3rd production year. I knew it wasn't very popular but I like it and if people here agree with my taste........cool if they wanna urinate and barf on it.........cool (just don't do it to mine as I'm giving it back to Honda in 3 years :) ). I'm not taking it personally or getting offended by it. I find it kind of funny actually. It's gonna do the job for me and it's basically a rental when all is said and done. 3 years from now when I get another new one (if they still make it), I get to relive the magic. :)

Jesda
08-24-11, 10:26 PM
Acura ZDX sales are down 80% from last year. Nissan builds crossover after crossover (ugh) and they keep selling, likely because the designs are less.... "controversial." :)

brandondeleo
08-24-11, 10:38 PM
I get nothing but crap about my DeVille from my friends at the university, but I just tell them "It's alright because it will smoke the crap out of your POS." Hahaha

Destroyer
08-24-11, 11:08 PM
Acura ZDX sales are down 80% from last year. Nissan builds crossover after crossover (ugh) and they keep selling, likely because the designs are less.... "controversial." :)I never bothered to look at sales statistics. They simply don't matter to me. :bouncy:

Stingroo
08-24-11, 11:10 PM
Nissan sucks.

:coffee:

Jesda
08-24-11, 11:26 PM
I never bothered to look at sales statistics. They simply don't matter to me. :bouncy:

I don't imagine they would! :)


As you can probably tell, I'm talking more about what an epic failure Honda's management and product leadership have been over the last 2-5 years.

Destroyer
08-25-11, 12:12 AM
Acura ZDX sales are down 80% from last year. Nissan builds crossover after crossover (ugh) and they keep selling, likely because the designs are less.... "controversial." :)I never liked the Murano.:rolleyes:

Destroyer
08-25-11, 12:28 AM
I don't imagine they would! :)


As you can probably tell, I'm talking more about what an epic failure Honda's management and product leadership have been over the last 2-5 years.Jesda I know you dislike the Honda's but from a practical point of view this is a hell of a vehicle as far as performance, versatility and comfort go. I dare say more practical than any Cadillac ever made. The Crosstour will go down the books as a failure I think because it was misunderstood. Many cars I like or love have gone down this road. I will be happy to say I owned one. Looks are subjective and differ to me in light of the vehicle overall. I HATE the Cadillac CTS. I feel it's ugly since inception but a CTS-V appeals to me. The CTS-V looks better because of what is underneath. Doesn't make sense does it? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=436LRFWx0p0

http://youtu.be/436LRFWx0p0

thebigjimsho
08-25-11, 12:59 AM
The Crossfire looks like a dog p00ping. The Crosstour looks like a fat dog p00ping.

thebigjimsho
08-25-11, 01:00 AM
Basically, anything with a "Cross" is awful.

Rodya234
08-25-11, 01:21 AM
I get nothing but crap about my DeVille from my friends at the university, but I just tell them "It's alright because it will smoke the crap out of your POS." Hahaha

What kind of people do you hang out with? Lol everyone thinks my cars are awesome, even my old Deville. Which isn't awesome. :lol:

Jesda
08-25-11, 02:04 AM
Jesda I know you dislike the Honda's but from a practical point of view this is a hell of a vehicle as far as performance, versatility and comfort go. I dare say more practical than any Cadillac ever made. The Crosstour will go down the books as a failure I think because it was misunderstood.

If we're talking about transportation for your wife, it doesn't matter. If we're talking about the misguided choices of Honda's management, then there's a discussion to be had.

Cadillac and Honda are different classes of brands that build different classes of cars. Comparing them is like Target vs Macy's. You might find a shirt that fits at Target, but you won't find the same level of quality and detail. If Cadillacs were about practicality, no one would buy a $75k Escalade.




Among family-wagon offerings, there are cars and crossovers with less offensive looks and equal comfort and dependability for the same or less money, thus the reason Honda is unable to sell the Crosstour. It isn't misunderstood or quirky. It's woefully uncompetitive, and yes, looks are a major reason. Attractive sheetmetal isn't a whimsical or subjective issue -- it's a sight-seeing human's primary interface with any object.

It goes to what I said earlier about making [I]intentionally ugly cars -- its a gamble [manufacturers assume there's a large segment of the population clamoring for them] and most of the time, it doesn't pay off. You could call the Crosstour a practical wagon, an efficient car, and a reliable piece of engineering, but it isn't more practical or dependable than anything else in its class, and its appearance is a detriment to its market appeal and resale value.

I hate to sound like an advocate of sameness and predictability, but there's a more intelligent middle ground between oddballs like the Crosstour and vanilla lumps like the Camry.

If it's a lease deal that enticed you, take a look at how poorly retail sales have been -- those deals are there to move unwanted metal, and Honda will pay for it later on when resale values fail to live up to expectations. Chrysler went through this at the turn of the century when they had to give away Grand Cherokees with enticingly low lease payments. After 36 months they were left with a glut of unwanted SUVs, diminished resale values, and a damaged brand.





If you want to talk about making your wife happy, that's a different subject from modern-day Honda being a questionably managed organization. Likewise, I could write pages and pages on what a mess Saab was before and after General Motors (and if you follow my threads, you'll see that I have) -- it's entirely unrelated to how much I enjoy my 20 year old convertible.


I'm trying to say that your wife may legitimately enjoy it, but there's a real and measurable reason why the public has avoided it, and its not because you believe it was misunderstood. There isn't much to understand about the Crosstour. Its a family wagon, and while cars in this class don't have to have the emotional appeal of a Dodge Viper, they shouldn't be hard on the eyes.






As for how cars like this and the Aztek make it to the market, allow me to explain.

Successful companies try to duplicate their success by reducing their processes and methods to a repeatable formula. In case the particular group of managers, designers, and engineers who worked together to make hit products move on or disband, there ought to be management processes in place that encourage and maintain ongoing success. The relentless pursuit of formulas and techniques occasionally comes as the expense of design inspiration and human input, turning a once-inspired organization into a machine that churns out "units" that fit "segments."

GM is the worst example of this kind of behavior, and every large auto manufacturer succumbs to the MBA mentality in some way as it matures.

At Honda (or GM, or Ford, or Chrysler, or Nissan) are groups of people in product development dedicated to watching trends and making calculated predictions. As analysts, they report to management with what they believe is "next", calculated, analyzed, and written on paper with market sales projections and estimated production numbers. Mature automakers, the ones who have spent a half century of more in the auto business (Honda started in '59 making bikes), tend to rely more on numbers and focus groups than the original ideas of designers and engineers.

There's a reason behind why this approach is preferred at large corporations -- it maintains stability and mitigates risk. Unfortunately, as the global automotive environment becomes more competitive, bureaucratic and slow-moving methods are trumped by newcomers with energy and inspiration. The Koreans have risen from last place and the Germans have surpassed Lexus and Acura in luxury sales. Outside of stable and steady industries like soft drinks, large retailers, defense contractors, cleaning products, and soap, the bureaucratic way of doing business is a detriment.


Making matters worse: focus groups are dishonest.

The average respondent at a focus group feels like he or she has a responsibility to the world, to inspire better and more sensible products. In reality, the same people who say "I want a wagon. It needs ground clearance like an SUV. It should drive like a car. It should have a sports car roof. It should be bigger" are the same ones who then say "holy hell thats ugly" and buy more emotionally appealing products. Remember when the entry-level Dodge Shadow was nearly as large as the midlevel Plymouth Acclaim? This was a result of focus groups that insisted on bigger entry-level cars. Unfortunately, the Shadow cost nearly as much to build and sold for thousands less than the Sundance/Acclaim.

Let's be real -- if its 1989 and you're looking to buy a small economical car, its probably because you 1) don't care what you drive or 2) can't afford something bigger and nicer (or the fuel and upkeep for it). This is a prime example of boneheaded customer-driven thinking. A manufacturer should lead its customers to a better place rather than chasing their whims and desires into a hole.






So, I hope your wife is happy (and therefore, I hope you are happy!), but let's avoid praising Honda for building this pile of car.

Jesda
08-25-11, 02:05 AM
I just Ricked my own post. There's good, educational stuff in there though.

I could write all day about the auto industry, but I won't hold it against anyone for scrolling past that pile of words. :P

I~LUV~Caddys8792
08-25-11, 02:10 AM
Basically, anything with a "Cross" is awful.

Adding another one to that list...
http://images.andale.com/f2/115/111/3901072/2007/9/23/CrossFireEmblem82.JPG

GM's infamous crossfire fuel injection, used from 1982-84 on the Camaros, Trans Am's and Z28's.

Stingroo
08-25-11, 02:12 AM
Also the Corvette ^

And lol Jesda.

Jesda
08-25-11, 02:44 AM
The only cross-anything with staying power was canceled:
http://hub.tv-ark.org.uk/images/news/cnni/cnni_images/programmes/cnn_crossfire_1992a.jpg

Playdrv4me
08-25-11, 06:44 AM
http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/autoreview/400x266/1999-2001-Isuzu-VehiCross-00805091990001.jpg

thebigjimsho
08-25-11, 10:16 AM
http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/autoreview/400x266/1999-2001-Isuzu-VehiCross-00805091990001.jpgYeah, I had thought of that, too. Awful...

brandondeleo
08-25-11, 11:45 AM
http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/autoreview/400x266/1999-2001-Isuzu-VehiCross-00805091990001.jpgOmg... I've seen those on the street before (usually in bright yellow with black plastic) and I still have no idea what the hell they are. Besides ugly, or course.

gdwriter
08-25-11, 03:14 PM
I just Ricked my own post. There's good, educational stuff in there though.

I could write all day about the auto industry, but I won't hold it against anyone for scrolling past that pile of words. :PWell, this was actually interesting, insightful and well-written. Worth the overworked scrollbar. As opposed to the same boring stories/arguments repeated ad nauseum. :yawn:

thebigjimsho
08-25-11, 03:34 PM
I found all long stories enlightening. Rather, lightening. As in my bowels...

Destroyer
08-25-11, 10:31 PM
http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/autoreview/400x266/1999-2001-Isuzu-VehiCross-00805091990001.jpgI actually liked those and considered buying one when I bought a new '01 Trooper.:yup:

Stingroo
08-25-11, 10:43 PM
And you shame me for the Aztek. :lol:

Aron9000
08-26-11, 12:24 AM
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ZwbJ4nVRFuM/Ti5ZUTfkcSI/AAAAAAAAIFs/YrZI4k7yfjM/s1600/1983%2BChrysler%2BLe%2BBaron%2BTown%2B%2526%2BCoun try%2BMark%2BCross%2BEdition%2BConvertible.%2B-%2B1.jpg

Jesda
08-26-11, 01:53 AM
lol, saw one of those at the Chrysler museum

Aron9000
08-26-11, 02:08 AM
For the uninformed its a 1983 Chrysler Lebaron Town and Country Mark "Cross" edition. Definitely the ugliest car ever sold by Chrysler.

ben.gators
08-26-11, 04:34 AM
http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/autoreview/400x266/1999-2001-Isuzu-VehiCross-00805091990001.jpg

What the hell is this thing? Does it bite?

Playdrv4me
08-26-11, 05:41 AM
What the hell is this thing? Does it bite?

Isuzu VehiCROSS. The worst part? They had an MSRP over $30,000.00... IN 1999.

Stingroo
08-26-11, 08:47 AM
What the hell is this thing? Does it bite?

Nah, it just sort of herps and derps around.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
08-26-11, 08:49 PM
What was that thing's target audience??

brandondeleo
08-26-11, 09:22 PM
Quite honestly, the more I see them, the more Crosstours are growing on me... :hide:

Destroyer
08-26-11, 09:56 PM
Quite honestly, the more I see them, the more Crosstours are growing on me... :hide:Say it isn't so. :)

brandondeleo
08-26-11, 09:58 PM
I saw one today in town that was black with blacked out windows all around. Very nice look.

Jesda
08-26-11, 10:51 PM
Quite honestly, the more I see them, the more Crosstours are growing on me... :hide:

Time to trade in the Deville!

orconn
08-26-11, 11:02 PM
What was that thing's target audience??

I'll bet they were aiming at 30 something Mom's who "just wouldn't be seen dead in a mini-van or even a crossover ute (read vanity minivan). If her husband has money, perhaps she's tired of schlepping the Escalade around and trying to fit it in parking spaces close the the store's door. To shut the lady up he whisks her off to the Honda dealership and she falls prey to showroom fever.

Destroyer
08-26-11, 11:59 PM
I'll bet they were aiming at 30 something Mom's who "just wouldn't be seen dead in a mini-van or even a crossover ute (read vanity minivan). If her husband has money, perhaps she's tired of schlepping the Escalade around and trying to fit it in parking spaces close the the store's door. To shut the lady up he whisks her off to the Honda dealership and she falls prey to showroom fever.Bingo. She didn't want another SUV/full size van and she wouldn't be caught dead in a minivan. This is the target audience and Honda zeroed in on it. I still think the Crosstour is sleek and looks cool. My friends do too, or maybe they are just playing nice. :)

Stingroo
08-27-11, 12:22 AM
While secretly vomiting/defecating under cover of night.


:noidea:

Destroyer
08-27-11, 12:25 AM
While secretly vomiting/defecating under cover of night.


:noidea:Nice! :)

Stingroo
08-27-11, 12:59 AM
I do what I can.


In all honesty, aside from the Crossfire-looking angle, they're not all too bad. Weird, yes, but there are definitely worse cars on the road (Nissan Juke, I'm looking at YOU.)

Jesda
08-27-11, 01:35 AM
Oh god, the Juke!
http://gifsforum.com/images/gif/i%27m%20out%20of%20here/grand/seinfeld.gif

thebigjimsho
08-27-11, 03:00 AM
Juke is teh puke. Piss poor is teh Crosstour.

RightTurn
08-27-11, 03:17 AM
I'll bet they were aiming at 30 something Mom's who "just wouldn't be seen dead in a mini-van or even a crossover ute (read vanity minivan). If her husband has money, perhaps she's tired of schlepping the Escalade around and trying to fit it in parking spaces close the the store's door. To shut the lady up he whisks her off to the Honda dealership and she falls prey to showroom fever.

Oh sure. The old "wife made me do it" story. Yawn.

thebigjimsho
08-27-11, 03:48 AM
Oh sure. The old "wife made me do it" story. Yawn.Oh ye who buys cars like shoes...

Stingroo
08-27-11, 08:47 AM
HEY!

Don't talk about Jimmeh like that. He's not here to defend himself.

:coffee:

gary88
08-27-11, 02:05 PM
Parked next to a white Crosstour this morning.

Immediately vomited and defecated :ack:

Destroyer
08-27-11, 02:24 PM
I'm going to take some better pictures of mine and post them so you can relive the moment any time you want. :)

orconn
08-27-11, 02:30 PM
Good thing there have not been too many of them sold ... could be a sanitation problem!

Destroyer
08-27-11, 06:31 PM
Good thing there have not been too many of them sold ... could be a sanitation problem!With age comes wisdom? I think not. Boys will be boys. :)

Jesda
08-27-11, 10:29 PM
I'm going to take some better pictures of mine and post them so you can relive the moment any time you want. :)

Send them to rotten.com [NSFW FOR THE LOVE OF GOD DO NOT GO THERE]

brandondeleo
08-27-11, 10:32 PM
Whatthehellwasthat???

Stingroo
08-27-11, 10:41 PM
^ Newf@g?

LOL

ben.gators
08-27-11, 10:58 PM
Send them to rotten.com [NSFW FOR THE LOVE OF GOD DO NOT GO THERE]

Good old days.... :D I guess I was 18 or 19...

Playdrv4me
08-28-11, 01:19 AM
http://images-2.drive.com.au/2010/09/02/1898089/Nissan-Murano-CrossCabriolet_420-420x0.jpg

Playdrv4me
08-28-11, 01:20 AM
http://images-2.drive.com.au/2010/09/02/1898089/Nissan-Murano-CrossCabriolet_420-420x0.jpg

http://www2.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Annual+Ugliest+Dog+Contest+Held+Sonoma+Marin+dQqm1 4z0qnCl.jpg

I~LUV~Caddys8792
08-28-11, 10:01 AM
http://images-2.drive.com.au/2010/09/02/1898089/Nissan-Murano-CrossCabriolet_420-420x0.jpg

Haha, we got a mint green one of those in at work yesterday. Who buys these????


Immediately vomited and defecated :ack:

The ol' puke and shit. I can't remember the last time I pulled that one off...

Stingroo
08-28-11, 10:29 AM
I have honestly not seen a single one of those convertible Muranos on the streets yet.

Quite possibly the most useless vehicle in the history of useless vehicles. Imagine the board meeting.

"Hey, guise, lets uhh... think up something uh.... that nobody else has done before."
"OKAY!"
"Who has ideas?"
"Uhm... how about cut the roof off of one of our crossovers?"
"What? Don't you realize how stupid that is?"
"But nobody's done it yet!"
http://affordablehousinginstitute.org/blogs/us/wp-content/uploads/guinness_brilliant.jpg

thebigjimsho
08-28-11, 12:30 PM
I have honestly not seen a single one of those convertible Muranos on the streets yet.

Quite possibly the most useless vehicle in the history of useless vehicles. Imagine the board meeting.

"Hey, guise, lets uhh... think up something uh.... that nobody else has done before."
"OKAY!"
"Who has ideas?"
"Uhm... how about cut the roof off of one of our crossovers?"
"What? Don't you realize how stupid that is?"
"But nobody's done it yet!"
http://affordablehousinginstitute.org/blogs/us/wp-content/uploads/guinness_brilliant.jpgYou should read the C&D piece on it. Hilarity ensues...

Stingroo
08-28-11, 12:33 PM
P.S. That entire conversation is funnier if you imagine it with Japanese accents.

MotownPimp
08-29-11, 02:16 PM
Man, I thought the above pic of Murano vert was a photochop. So I looked it up..... Nissan actually made this thing. Talk about getting some bad weed!

:confused: :hide: :hitstick: :wtf:

OffThaHorseCEO
08-29-11, 02:22 PM
P.S. That entire conversation is funnier if you imagine it with Japanese accents.

o rry?

"dont you rearize how stupid that is?"

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l283/tump_01/yarry.jpg