: ac blend door actuator



ctsvdubbz
08-16-11, 09:43 PM
anyone thats had ac problems.. anyone know where the blend door actuator is... i know theres more than one.. i think either 4 or 6 heard both.. but the one that switches from heat to ac... my ac lines are cold.. and theres a clicking behind the dash.. i dunno if there is seperate ones??? anyone know of or seen a diagram of the blend doors and all the other stuff thats behind the dash... ??? ANY help is greatly appreciated!!

CadzillaTN
08-17-11, 09:36 PM
If darkman can't help, you're screwed.. A bump nonetheless..

darkman
08-17-11, 11:10 PM
See attached.

ctsvdubbz
08-18-11, 04:35 PM
but where is it?? and does the whole dash have to come out??

Houdini
08-18-11, 04:50 PM
I haven't had a need to tear into the dash on the V but in my aurora (very similar setup) I was able to access most of those actuator motors when mine started to act up. I think I removed part of center console and was able to get up in there. On the passenger side I was able to access them by taking the glove box out. It would suck to have to take entire dash out to get to them. Good luck man.

darkman
08-18-11, 07:36 PM
but where is it?? and does the whole dash have to come out??

I don't know.

I have never worked on a car HVAC other than the hot water plumbing to the heater and throwing in a can of freon back in the old days when that was legal for do-it-yourselfers. If my AC goes out the car goes to the shop - preferrably the dealer since most of the parts are only available there.

ghettomike
12-31-11, 10:10 AM
Did you ever sort this out?
I've got a heat problem... Passenger side blows hot air, driver side cold.

JazMiller
01-09-12, 09:45 PM
Damn, mine just started with this now! Same same,... passenger side blows hot, driver side blows cold. (05 CTS-V).

ghettomike
01-09-12, 10:15 PM
i just pulled my whole cooling system apart, flushed the whole thing out. ran a hose through the heater core.
its better but not perfect. im going to find something for cleaning a cooling system and pop the hoses off the heater core and drop it into it.
i get more heat when im standing on the gas, if i let the car warm up it puts out very warm air, but not as hot as the passenger side..big improvement over how it was though.

JazMiller
01-09-12, 10:21 PM
Yeah I just put a coolant system on my list for the car this week. Maybe I'll have to focus on the heater core like Tommy did on his in this post:
http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-cts-first-generation-forum-2003/162830-blend-vent-motor-3.html

We're having a mild winter here so it's not uncomfortable yet. I had this on my spring to-do list but there's going to be a few chilly days before the warmer weather arrives here and I'll want more than passenger vents full and driver vents closed with heated seat on to keep me from freezing.

ctsvdubbz
01-18-12, 03:05 PM
still haveant sorted it out yet... got 2 blend door actuators instead.. i got heat my heats fine.. but clicks when i try n use the ac cuz the doors wont switch.. hopefully when the weather is a lil nicer i can fix this without tearing the whole dash out... but my problem is the total opposite my heat works fine and ac is cold and charged.. just the doors wont switch from heat to ac...

JazMiller
01-24-12, 11:11 PM
Hey GhettoMike, looks like the heater core is clogged on mine and is the culprit. My car's in the shop today for coolant flush and backflush of the heater core. It's actually in overnight since they didn't get the backflush done. The mechanic has told me that the core is pretty jammed up and is the reason it's hot for passengers but blows cold on driver side. Actually said that he has seen this exactly before on more than one V.

Looking forward to getting warm air on my feet when this is fixed...! It's been a long time since I've been cosy behind the wheel. Actually thought of letting the Mrs. take the wheel when we were going out the other evening so I could sit on the warm side of the car! :bonkers:

ghettomike
01-24-12, 11:47 PM
got mine working better.
i got rad flush liquid, disconnected the heatercore poured it in left it for 20-30 min hosed it out.
worked better, still not perfect, so a couple days later i hooked a compressor up to it to blow everything i could out, a little bit of gunk blew out, got all the liquid out of it i could, poured more rad flush in and let it sit a few hours. went back out hooked the hose up and just kept it running for a bit, then put the compressor on it again and blew it out.
filled the heatercore back up with coolant (a dry heater core makes weird noises of water swooshing around in your dash, and sometimes getting air out isnt easy) and let it warm up.
seems to be working really well, slightly hotter on the passenger side but not much. i may use a laser heat sensor on the air out of all the vents this weekend if i can get a chance while @ work.

JazMiller
01-26-12, 12:03 AM
The dealership I took mine in to did a power flush on the heater core and re-bled the cooling system. Reported better heat but not as good on drivers side as the passenger side. They repeated, then hooked up some lines and put heavy duty coolent agent cleaner in and let it sit overnight. This morning's power flush kicked out a lot of debres, and now she's heated up like a champ. Issue resolved.

Telling them where to look probably saved me some diagnostics time ($$). They didn't want to go straight to the heater core, but I insisted and that was probably a good thing.

Thanks all (and the guys in the Tommy's thread) for the pointers!

SOUTHWESTCADILLAC
02-18-14, 03:06 PM
You pull the DASH if it is the upper right hand mode door...and it sets code B0248

cmjohnson
08-10-14, 12:00 AM
I have two actuators that have gone bad in my '04 CTS. This is in Florida, mind you, and in the summer,
so good a/c is not really an option, it's a necessity!

Right now the right side vents blow full hot although the driver vents work properly.

I went to the local GM dealership and got the diagram and the part numbers for all the actuators,
and they're all about half price if you buy them from gmpartsdirect.com so if you're going to take on this job,
save yourself some money and buy the parts there.

I love my CTS but having investigated the possibility of replacing the actuators on my own, and having actually
begun the disassembly process, I have to say that now the team that designed the dash assembly is most definitely
on my short list of people that I want to see die in a fire!

Just pulling the glove box out is a major undertaking! I honestly don't yet understand how it was installed at the factory!

Pulling the kick panel on the passenger's side under the dash allows you to SEE the passenger vent door actuator,
and guess where it is? Right behind two hot water pipes, so close to the pipes that there is ZERO chance of getting
the actuator out without major disassembly! And to add insult to injury, there's a slot in the middle of it for manual
adjustment with a screwdriver, which I could use to simply manually set to the A/C setting (rather than the heat setting) and then unplug the little sucker and forget about it, but NO, that's not possible, either, as one of the hot pipes goes right over
the adjuster screw so there's not even a way to make that adjustment with the pipe covering it.

The cost to have a mechanic do this could easily approach a thousand bucks. I can get the actuators for under 150 bucks
for a set of four. So I will get the actuators and then spend a weekend tearing out what is left of my hair, doing the job myself, because I can't afford to blow that much money on a repair. I know what needs replacing so I'll do it, as it's
not major engine or transmission work.

But it's gonna SUCK.

I'll post the part numbers for this tomorrow, if I remember to do so. Just so you can have that info.

ctsv247
08-10-14, 08:40 AM
I feel for you!

Maybe this would work as a temporary band-aid....

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/2009-2014-cadillac-cts-v-performance/256597-heater-core-bypass-colder-c.html

cmjohnson
08-10-14, 06:52 PM
As promised, the part numbers....

25740409 dealer price $74.95 gmpartsdirect.com price $39.72 (driver's side location)
25740395 dealer price $83.22 gmpartsdirect.com price $44.11 (Two of these are used in the system) (passenger side and...don't see the other one on the diagram...)
89023402 dealer price $90.05 gmpartsdirect.com price $47.73 (driver's side)


Does anyone have any diagrams or documentation on the process for removing the dash?

On my Toyota Camry, it was relatively very easy. The CTS seems to be an order of magnitude more complex,
OR there are just tricks to it that I have not yet figured out.

I will need to replace at least one part that I thought snapped out, from the glove box assembly. But it simply snapped
and will have to be replaced. Oops...

ctsv247
08-10-14, 07:22 PM
I always go to a junkyard and tear into one if possible.

cmjohnson
08-10-14, 08:38 PM
I'm quite a veteran of junkyard parts gathering, myself. But given how difficult it is to change out those actuators, I'll buy news ones and NOT have to worry about how much life they have left before they, too, give out.

Given that the first set lasted about ten years, I'd expect a new set to outlast the likely lifespan of the car.

Becker
08-10-14, 08:40 PM
dash and doors I never find exactly how they are mounted until I break a clip or two unmounting it...haha then it all becomes a bit clearer.. I hate taking the dash off, never goes on the same and you always have a new rattling noise.


Good luck man!

darkman
08-10-14, 09:03 PM
See attached.

ctsv247
08-10-14, 09:30 PM
I'm quite a veteran of junkyard parts gathering, myself. But given how difficult it is to change out those actuators, I'll buy news ones and NOT have to worry about how much life they have left before they, too, give out.

Given that the first set lasted about ten years, I'd expect a new set to outlast the likely lifespan of the car.

i wouldn't use junkyard parts but i would go to the junkyard and rip the dash out of one to see how it comes apart. take your time, collect as many parts as you can and stash them in the trunk in case you need to buy them later

cmjohnson
08-10-14, 10:51 PM
Good idea. IF the junkyard will allow me to pull a dash without buying it. The junkyard I usually deal with doesn't USUALLY mind that, as they figure that it makes it just that much easier to sell the pulled dash.

Do you have the replacement instructions for the passenger side actuator? Those docs cover every actuator except for that one, which I suspect will be a nightmare.

darkman
08-11-14, 09:15 AM
Do you have the replacement instructions for the passenger side actuator? The attachments include all the actuators in the service manual, but may not include everything required to get to those actuators. For example, the instructions for the right side (passenger side) actuator requires the removal of the "air inlet assembly." I have not found any instructions for removing the air inlet assembly, but it may be there under a different label. (The service literature often uses different labels for the same part.)

ctsv247
08-11-14, 10:04 AM
I go to any assortment of pic-a-parts or pull-a-parts, lkq, etc. I really think they are more into the scrap metal business than they are the auto salvage business. Most cars get crushed within 6o to 90 days so they really do seem to care one way or another what happens to the cars.

markrieb
08-13-14, 07:23 PM
I'm having a similar problem. Heat works, defrost works, AC works, floor works and the center vents work, but the outside vents, near the door on both sides barely have any air coming out. I assume this is a similar/related issue with the door actuators.

cmjohnson
08-20-14, 10:50 PM
I was able to "fix" the passenger side heating problem this evening.

By fix it, I mean, I now have cold air coming out of the vents.

It turns out that the passenger side actuator CAN be removed from its spot on the side of the heater core box,
simpy by unscrewing the two philips head screws that hold it in place, and pulling and rotating the actuator down
and then out. It WILL come out from behind the two heater pipes.

And then you stick your finger into the hole where the actuator runs and manually pull the vent door to the DOWN position
and you now have cool air running to the passenger vents. It is not really necessary to reinstall the actuator no matter
what you do to or with it unless you NEED the ability to get warmer air from the vents. Being in Florida, I seriously do not
think that this will be much of a concern for me, ever.

I opened the actuator up (it snaps together but the clips are rather fragile, you have been warned) and found that the problem
was this: The drive motor has a worm gear on it. The worm gear slips onto the drive motor shaft. The drive motor shaft has a cross-pin running through it and it is this cross-pin that engages a mating slot on the worm gear. Fine, easy enough.
But, in this case the worm gear can float up on the motor shaft and the driving pin can disengage from the slot. This is due to too much clearance at the top end of the worm gear in the housing. I simply used the tip of a soldering iron to heat up
some of the plastic housing and deform it so as to reduce that end of gear clearance to almost nothing. Now the gear can
NOT slip up far enough to disengage from the drive shaft.

I then plugged the actuator back into the car and started it up. The actuator now works. The arm spins as needed.

But, at the moment that doesn't do me a lot of good as I don't think it's going to be easy to reinstall the actuator by
feel, That actuator arm may not easily go into the slot in the vent door. I haven't actually tried to complete that
reassembly yet and frankly I don't really even need to worry about it. Like I need heat in August in Florida!

But it does stand to reason that if you can remove the actuator without tearing the dash apart or damaging anything,
you can reinstall it as well. But it is a cramped place to work in. I highly recommend removing the glove box internals
so you can see through the glove box opening while working with tools from the under-dash access.

ctsv247
08-21-14, 10:53 AM
I was able to "fix" the passenger side heating problem this evening.

By fix it, I mean, I now have cold air coming out of the vents.

It turns out that the passenger side actuator CAN be removed from its spot on the side of the heater core box,
simpy by unscrewing the two philips head screws that hold it in place, and pulling and rotating the actuator down
and then out. It WILL come out from behind the two heater pipes.

And then you stick your finger into the hole where the actuator runs and manually pull the vent door to the DOWN position
and you now have cool air running to the passenger vents. It is not really necessary to reinstall the actuator no matter
what you do to or with it unless you NEED the ability to get warmer air from the vents. Being in Florida, I seriously do not
think that this will be much of a concern for me, ever.

I opened the actuator up (it snaps together but the clips are rather fragile, you have been warned) and found that the problem
was this: The drive motor has a worm gear on it. The worm gear slips onto the drive motor shaft. The drive motor shaft has a cross-pin running through it and it is this cross-pin that engages a mating slot on the worm gear. Fine, easy enough.
But, in this case the worm gear can float up on the motor shaft and the driving pin can disengage from the slot. This is due to too much clearance at the top end of the worm gear in the housing. I simply used the tip of a soldering iron to heat up
some of the plastic housing and deform it so as to reduce that end of gear clearance to almost nothing. Now the gear can
NOT slip up far enough to disengage from the drive shaft.

I then plugged the actuator back into the car and started it up. The actuator now works. The arm spins as needed.

But, at the moment that doesn't do me a lot of good as I don't think it's going to be easy to reinstall the actuator by
feel, That actuator arm may not easily go into the slot in the vent door. I haven't actually tried to complete that
reassembly yet and frankly I don't really even need to worry about it. Like I need heat in August in Florida!

But it does stand to reason that if you can remove the actuator without tearing the dash apart or damaging anything,
you can reinstall it as well. But it is a cramped place to work in. I highly recommend removing the glove box internals
so you can see through the glove box opening while working with tools from the under-dash access.

Thanks for going to the trouble to document this.....your repair karma has been updated. good luck!

odla
08-22-14, 12:22 AM
Yea thanks for the info. Any pics?

cmjohnson
08-23-14, 09:04 PM
No, I did not document the repair with photographs. But you'll see the actuator in question hiding behind two silver colored pipes leading into the heater core, if you remove the kick panel under the passenger side of the dashboard.

When you take apart the actuator, there's only one worm gear in it. Pretty self explanatory.

cmjohnson
08-25-14, 09:56 PM
Update: I got around to messing with the actuator and found that it's really a lot easier to reinstall it correctly than I thought it would be. First I popped the cover off the actuator and removed the motor (it just pops out and connects to the circuit via spring contacts that are retained in the actuator housing) and moved the actuator arm to a position that seemed to make sense. I then reinstalled the motor and plugged the actuator cable into the actuator's socket, and started the car and turned on the AC. The motor spun briefly and moved the actuator. By experimenting with the temperature settings I could see how the actuator works and preset it to full cold, and turned the car off. I then put the cover back on the actuator and was able to place it correctly in its spot on the side of the center a/c box in just a minute or so. I then turned the car and AC back on and checked it and found that everything was functioning CORRECTLY. I was getting properly tempered air out of the system. (Air temperature out of the vents is adjusted by varying the ratio between cold from the AC and warm from the heater) Having verified this, I turned the car off and set the two screws back into place that actually hold the actuator to the air box.


It was a lot easier than I was expecting it to be.

The only hard part about it it all is maneuvering yourself so that you can get a screwdriver on the right screws.
Which is easier if you gut out the glove box and watch through it while working from underneath after removing the kick panel. But be careful, the glove box is a lot harder to disassemble without breaking anything than it has any right to be!

Other than the contortions you have to subject yourself to in order to remove and reinstall the actuator screws, the rest of the job is actually pretty easy.