: Interiors, Japanese car designs and other stuff...



billc83
04-07-11, 01:13 AM
The last Japanese car I saw that really struck a chord with me was the Mazda Shinari concept. That wasn't more than a year ago.

http://www.autoevolution.com/images/news/mazda-shinari-concept-unveiled-at-2010-la-auto-show-26650_1.jpg

Playdrv4me
04-07-11, 01:33 AM
Mazda always has some of the most striking concepts.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
04-07-11, 01:38 AM
The Shinari was good, but it's a concept. Let's see what it looks like in real life before we get too excited. The last generation Supra was fantastic, and the SC300/400 was great too. But those were all designed in the early '90s.

Playdrv4me
04-07-11, 02:01 AM
The "pretty" Land Cruiser lasted until 2006 and is a proud copy of no one. But that's about it.

Playdrv4me
04-07-11, 02:36 AM
I've ALWAYS liked these in the coupe as well, can't believe I forgot...

http://www.automotiveaddicts.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/2009infinitg37profileunderbridge-575.jpg

drewsdeville
04-07-11, 03:26 AM
More Japanese ugliness. They really just need to leave their cars bland. When was the last time you saw a truly gorgeous Japanese car that wasn't a direct knockoff of someone else's design?

While I would probably never own one, I always thought the 350/370z's were slick looking cars.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/43/NISSAN_FAIRLADY_Z_Z34.jpg

Also (where's my flame suit?), I thought the Hyundai Tiburon's were neat looking cars as well. Too bad it didn't have any other redeeming characteristics.

http://sportscarforums.com/gallery/data/42/Hyundai-Tiburon_Coupe_2007_1024x768_wallpaper_09.jpg

Stingroo
04-07-11, 08:50 AM
No, I actually liked that generation Tiburon too. Too bad they were pudgy and underpowered compared to their competition.

thebigjimsho
04-07-11, 11:30 AM
Japanese design either look bland or like they are trying too hard. A major Japanese manufacturer needs to throw away function and give styling free reign to foreign designers. Like what Kia is doing...

orconn
04-07-11, 01:18 PM
The last Japanese car I saw that really struck a chord with me was the Mazda Shinari concept. That wasn't more than a year ago.

http://www.autoevolution.com/images/news/mazda-shinari-concept-unveiled-at-2010-la-auto-show-26650_1.jpg

This, like many of Mazda's designs, looks like it was design in Italy (and I'd bet it was). Mazda has had a close relationship with design firms since the 1960's. That's why Mazdas have consistantly been better looking than their other Japanese brethren.

That Supra looks like it was designed by the jellybean kid. Even the first generation SC Lexus twins, while not offensive, were realy just so-so. The following generation, wjich looked like a popular 1940's kid's toy, was just ludicrous!

Hell, even the background setting where the Shinari's picture was taken is Italian!

orconn
04-07-11, 02:15 PM
While I would probably never own one, I always thought the 350/370z's were slick looking cars.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/43/NISSAN_FAIRLADY_Z_Z34.jpg

Also (where's my flame suit?), I thought the Hyundai Tiburon's were neat looking cars as well. Too bad it didn't have any other redeeming characteristics.

http://sportscarforums.com/gallery/data/42/Hyundai-Tiburon_Coupe_2007_1024x768_wallpaper_09.jpg

Yeah, i'd say the "flame suit" would be proper attire. Both those cars designs are iterations of the design kitsch seen in the industry for over two decades. I can see the design teams pouring over old comic books looking for ideas to include in the designs of these two cars. "Hey, Hiro-san, look at these scoops! And if we plump it up two notches it'll look just like the one in the comic!" Meanwhile over in Korea Kim Lee is looking at an even older comic and starts to slather on the modeling clay to bring the corpulance of his model more in line with Betty Boop's rear end!

Jesda
04-07-11, 02:20 PM
Italian looks, Japanese engineering. I'm all for it.

In the case of the Miata, its British looks and Japanese engineering. I'm all for that too.

cadillac kevin
04-07-11, 02:58 PM
the shinari looks like a maserati or aston martin

CIWS
04-07-11, 05:24 PM
Infiniti's concept "Essence" shown at the 2009 shows.



http://images.thecarconnection.com/lrg/2009-infiniti-essence-concept-002_100196347_l.jpg




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqaP69o8kNk

orconn
04-07-11, 05:48 PM
Infiniti's concept "Essence" shown at the 2009 shows.



http://images.thecarconnection.com/lrg/2009-infiniti-essence-concept-002_100196347_l.jpg

video=youtube;vqaP69o8kNk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqaP69o8kNk[/video]

As I was watching the clip I kept thinking I was watching a old Maserati go raound that track .... one fro the 1950's. Although it would have been a Maser thatwas suffering from "Middle Age Spread. The front of the car looks like some cartoon fish from the "Little Mermaid."

concorso
04-07-11, 07:23 PM
Ugly or hawt, that image stirs your emotions. Very few Lexus' have ever achieved that for me. Theyve been hideous in their boringness.

I will not call them Lexi.

concorso
04-07-11, 07:28 PM
Italian looks, Japanese engineering. I'm all for it.

In the case of the Miata, its British looks and Japanese engineering. I'm all for that too.Japanese engineering with any other countries looks can lead to a very nice car.

Lord Cadillac
04-08-11, 10:03 AM
I think the FT-86 II concept is coming along very nicely. If it doesn't change too much, I'll like it..

JimmyH
04-08-11, 11:06 AM
The Germans, and now the Japanese it seems, are determined to ensure a worldwide shortage of LED lights.

Almost every car posted in this thread looks like a knockoff of the previous picture.

orconn
04-08-11, 01:03 PM
The Germans, and now the Japanese it seems, are determined to ensure a worldwide shortage of LED lights.

Almost every car posted in this thread looks like a knockoff of the previous picture.

Well said!

JimmyH
04-08-11, 01:24 PM
lolz, so they only have one designer over in Japan now? I guess he works for all of them :lol:

http://www.cooleywire.com/jimmyh/pics/cars/japconcepts.jpg

orconn
04-08-11, 01:29 PM
lolz, so they only have one designer over in Japan now? I guess he works for all of them :lol:

http://www.cooleywire.com/jimmyh/pics/cars/japconcepts.jpg

Yeah, he works for Citroen, Aston, Lamborghini and Pucci Manuli too!

JimmyH
04-08-11, 01:30 PM
busy guy. he must be well paid.

Lord Cadillac
04-08-11, 02:15 PM
The headlights look very similar but the rest looks different to me.

OffThaHorseCEO
04-08-11, 03:33 PM
yea, out of those 3 the toyota is very different, the other 2 are variations of the same mazda concept right?

edit: just noticed the infiniti badge, very close design between those 2

JimmyH
04-08-11, 04:13 PM
I know, cars all look the same these days because that is what the consumer wants. Buyers, en masse, flock to whatever is currently trendy. Anything that looks different is an outcast, and will sell as such. And of course, most car buyers want to blend in; they don't want people to notice them out on the road. Must be the "big-brother" complex.

JimmyH
04-08-11, 04:15 PM
Just look at Subaru; every time they dumb down a car and make it look plainer, sales jump.

orconn
04-08-11, 05:35 PM
Yes it's "Sheeple" rampant, count me out.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
04-08-11, 07:23 PM
I hate blending in to current trends. I hate following trends of almost any sort, but so do most of us on here. If we were very "trendy" people, we'd all be driving Priuses, Hondas or something else really "en vogue" now.

billc83
04-08-11, 07:27 PM
This is CADILLAC FORUM!!!

JimmyH
04-08-11, 07:29 PM
ALL yOU NEED IS ONE LOWERCASE

Jesda
04-08-11, 09:21 PM
Yeah, Subaru, now that Toyota owns a piece, is going mainstream. Oh well.

JimmyH
04-08-11, 09:36 PM
I was real close to the new Legacy 2.5GT. It's a slick car. Roomy, and good handling. Lousy fuel economy killed it though, and I wasn't ready to accept turbocharging.

CIWS
04-08-11, 10:43 PM
This is the latest 2011 concept car for Infiniti, the Etherea. "a compact luxury model that previews Infinitiís future entry-level model geared towards the younger population"

http://www.topspeed.com/cars/infiniti/2011-infiniti-etherea-ar105008.html


http://pictures.topspeed.com/IMG/crop/201102/infiniti-etherea_800x0w.jpg

CIWS
04-08-11, 10:44 PM
lolz, so they only have one designer over in Japan now? I guess he works for all of them :lol:

The design philosophy is called Dynamic Adeyaka.

orconn
04-09-11, 12:34 AM
Kind of looks like a car incarnation of "Nutsy" the Richmond Flying Squirrels baseball teams mascot!

CIWS
04-09-11, 08:19 AM
Oopps I should have done something similar to Lexus. http://www.ciws.net/smiles/wink.gif



http://www.ciws.net/infinitifront.jpg




How about this upcoming Hybrid/electric, the Fisker Karma, and it's design ?



http://www.lincah.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/2010-fisker-karma-picture-1-588x441.jpg



http://pictures.topspeed.com/IMG/crop/200901/2010-fisker-karma-17_1024x0w.jpg

JimmyH
04-09-11, 02:00 PM
whatever else, those cars all look like they will be outrageously expensive. they can keep em.

RippyPartsDept
04-09-11, 02:44 PM
http://uncrate.com/men/images/2009/03/tesla-model-s.jpg
TESLA Model S

looks like a Maserati to me... just like the TESLA Roadster looked like a Lotus

i like the flush door handles, and the wheels

http://peakoilgarage.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/tesla_model_s_screen.jpg

and the 17" touchscreen display !!! ... oooh that display

http://thenerdinsurance.us/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/f061a375x0104ub53rt.jpg

JimmyH
04-09-11, 04:02 PM
holy mega touch screen bat-man!

If Tesla ever figures out that two speed transmission, they are going to have one serious sports car on their hands. having a highway gear will give the car the range it needs while keeping the performance.

JimmyH
04-09-11, 04:04 PM
and WTF is with all the leather wrapped dashboards these days? just use the cheap plastic and put that $1000 somewhere it counts.

Stingroo
04-09-11, 06:06 PM
and WTF is with all the leather wrapped dashboards these days? just use the cheap plastic and put that $1000 somewhere it counts.

Shhhhhh you'll offend the "Interior is everything" crowd.

orconn
04-09-11, 07:04 PM
Back in the "Good Old Days" Har, har! Coach built Ferraris, Lamborghinis, etc. and even (hush my mouth) Rolls-Royces, which all had interiors that were real high grade leather throughout, had the tops of the dashboards clad in synthetic leather. Leather just didn't stand up to the rigors of sun exposure the way the synthetic stiff did. I know because I maintained cars with full leather (certified genuine leather) interiors in Southern California for over thirty years. Although my cars were garaged during the day and at night they still required continuous cleaning and treatment with leather balms to keep then supple and presentable (sure did smell good!), given the way early padded dashboards faded and cracked their vinyl coverings, leather would have deteriorated even quicker. With the advent of high quality vinyl synthetic leather in the sixties this material became the covering of choice for luxury cars. Even with the advances made in leather processing to prevent damage from the sun I doubt very much that real leather will hold up as well to the rigors daily use and sun damage. Honestly I think the use of "real" to cover the dashboard tops is more a function of satisfying "material snobs" than in utilizing the most efficacious material for the job.

OffThaHorseCEO
04-09-11, 07:18 PM
looks like a Maserati to me... just like the TESLA Roadster looked like a Lotus


Lotus had a hand in the design and manufacture of the Tesla roadster

RippyPartsDept
04-09-11, 07:24 PM
telsa has a parts deal w/ lotus and i heard that they hired so many designers and engineers away from lotus that lotus made them stop or they would be in breach of contract or something

and jimmy the model s gets a much larger range than the roadster

thebigjimsho
04-09-11, 08:36 PM
I was real close to the new Legacy 2.5GT. It's a slick car. Roomy, and good handling. Lousy fuel economy killed it though, and I wasn't ready to accept turbocharging.
wazza matta wit da b00st?

Playdrv4me
04-09-11, 08:51 PM
More cars need leather covered dashboards... The leather wrapped dash in the DTS and Escalade platinum makes you feel like you aren't sitting in a trashcan. It's the way the base model cars should have shipped in the first place. Instead of taking the easy road and just deleting niceties, perhaps they should figure out how to reduce costs by increasing efficiencies.

thebigjimsho
04-09-11, 08:58 PM
It doesn't have to be leather. But it should be moar luxurious. The faux leather with French stitching in mah V makes me perfectly happy...

Playdrv4me
04-09-11, 08:59 PM
It doesn't have to be leather. But it should be moar luxurious. The faux leather with French stitching in mah V makes me perfectly happy...

Yea, I'm ok with that. In fact, I couldn't even tell, nor did I know that it was faux when I sat in one... so it's getting the job done. Like I said, find a way to increase efficiencies, don't just throw the decontenting hammer at every good thing.

Playdrv4me
04-09-11, 09:03 PM
http://thenerdinsurance.us/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/f061a375x0104ub53rt.jpg
:worship: :drool:

JimmyH
04-09-11, 11:18 PM
Shhhhhh you'll offend the "Interior is everything" crowd.

I used to care about interiors. After the V, and now the Camaro, I decided I don't care anymore. Gimme the plastic dash and a well funded, fine-tuned chassis development http://www.cooleywire.com/jimmyh/pics/gif/biggrin.gif

JimmyH
04-09-11, 11:22 PM
Lotus had a hand in the design and manufacture of the Tesla roadster


I think the Tesla IS an elise. minus the drivetrain. I have seen two out on the road. Of course, given the car's rarity, I assume both times were the same car. On one occasion, it was being followed by a Murcielago. It was like night and day. The tesla went buy with a whisper, the Murc just about vibrated me off the road.

Aron9000
04-10-11, 01:09 AM
I used to care about interiors. After the V, and now the Camaro, I decided I don't care anymore. Gimme the plastic dash and a well funded, fine-tuned chassis development http://www.cooleywire.com/jimmyh/pics/gif/biggrin.gif

I care about the interior to a point. On a luxury car it should be nice, on a $22,000 340hp fbody, well something has to give at the price point.

And I'd take the interior of my old Z28 over a 1st gen CTS any day of the week. Yeah it might be ridiculously cheap, but its a decently well laid out, non gimmicky design. Unlike that Darth Vader stuck an ATM from the Death Star in my dashboard motiff of the CTS.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
04-10-11, 02:15 AM
I care greatly about the interior of any car I'd purchase. On a luxury car, it should be nice, be built of high quality materials, have a beautiful design and make me feel special, as a luxury car should. On a normal car, it should be nicely laid out, built well but doesn't need to make me feel extravagant or anything special.

concorso
04-10-11, 12:11 PM
I care about the interior to a point. On a luxury car it should be nice, on a $22,000 340hp fbody, well something has to give at the price point.

And I'd take the interior of my old Z28 over a 1st gen CTS any day of the week. Yeah it might be ridiculously cheap, but its a decently well laid out, non gimmicky design. Unlike that Darth Vader stuck an ATM from the Death Star in my dashboard motiff of the CTS.I love the 1st gen interior. The computer-themed center stack is unique. Its also laid out very well. I never have to look at the dash to adjust climate/radio, etc...
http://cadillacpicgall.co.cc/pictures/car/images/64/09_CADI.jpg I dont remember the Exectutor looking like that...

concorso
04-10-11, 12:20 PM
It doesn't have to be leather. But it should be moar luxurious. The faux leather with French stitching in mah V makes me perfectly happy...Faux leather? Call it what it is. Vinyl. Tofu isnt faux meat, its tofu.

That interior might be ok, but for people who want a world class interior, its just not good enough. I really think the CTS needs an optional extended leather interior.

concorso
04-10-11, 12:23 PM
I care greatly about the interior of any car I'd purchase. On a luxury car, it should be nice, be built of high quality materials, have a beautiful design and make me feel special, as a luxury car should. On a normal car, it should be nicely laid out, built well but doesn't need to make me feel extravagant or anything special.I agree. You buy a nice couch so you have somewhere nice to sit. You buy a luxury car for the luxury items that are unnecessary, but nice. It almost seems that N.American's have lost the ability to appreciate differences in materials. Not all leather is created equal....

I~LUV~Caddys8792
04-10-11, 01:04 PM
THANK YOU! Finally someone agrees! Whenever I get in a new car, especially something I'm interested in, I always touch all the materials in the cabin, because it gives a good idea to how important interior comfort and execution is to the company that made the car.

And it's not just leather, but a nice suede/velour is a "tactile feast".

gary88
04-10-11, 01:11 PM
How could you not at least care a little bit about the things you look at and touch 100% of the time you're driving?

orconn
04-10-11, 03:42 PM
Over the years, I have found that many so called "luxury" (expensive) materials, while initially giving superior tactile or visual impression, do not stand up well even under moderate daily use. Mens" suits are a good example; in the past I have purchased business suits costing in the range of $2000. to $3000. dollars hand tailored from especially fine fabrics only to find them unsatisfactory when worn weekly due to poor wrinkle resistance and fabric wear. I quickly learned that many "luxury" items were in fact "sucker bait" valued more for their "snob" appeal than their intrinsic superiority. Many of my friends have come to the same conclusion.

This is not to say that some products that cost a lot in relationship to the lesser priced product competition. A good example would be my Lamborghini 350 GT, a beautifully designed, built GT automobile utilizing the very best of materials and components available at the time. This car was truly superior to a Jaguar E-type costing about a third of the Lambo's price. And it was superior in quality and materials (not too mention performance) to Astons and Ferraris available in the mid sixties at around the same price.

However, when it comes to car interiors, the car whose interior stood up best to the rigors of daily use, including hauling Cub and Boy Scouts on a regular basis and doing "horse" duty going to shows and training, was my '84 Audi 5000S Avant. Despite all the other problems with the car, its' high grade vinyl (BenzTex type) upholstery and the quality assembly of the interior stood the test of time better than cars costing much more. The same could be said of the Alfa Romeo 164's velour and vinyl interior which also performed "horse" (hauling saddles, tack and a sweaty rider) for over ten years with no adverse affect (velour never showed wear, cushions never deformed during the time I had the car). Neither the Alfa nor the Audi had what could be term "luxury" interiors, but they looked good and stood the test of time very well.

So I wonder, when I see materials used in places on current cars purportedly "luxury" materials whether these materials (such as authentic leather dash covers with French stitching) will stand the test of time or come up short as the cars age.

JimmyH
04-10-11, 04:36 PM
I have a suit that I paid almost $400 for. :D

thebigjimsho
04-10-11, 06:01 PM
Over the years, I have found that many so called "luxury" (expensive) materials, while initially giving superior tactile or visual impression, do not stand up well even under moderate daily use. Mens" suits are a good example; in the past I have purchased business suits costing in the range of $2000. to $3000. dollars hand tailored from especially fine fabrics only to find them unsatisfactory when worn weekly due to poor wrinkle resistance and fabric wear. I quickly learned that many "luxury" items were in fact "sucker bait" valued more for their "snob" appeal than their intrinsic superiority. Many of my friends have come to the same conclusion.

This is not to say that some products that cost a lot in relationship to the lesser priced product competition. A good example would be my Lamborghini 350 GT, a beautifully designed, built GT automobile utilizing the very best of materials and components available at the time. This car was truly superior to a Jaguar E-type costing about a third of the Lambo's price. And it was superior in quality and materials (not too mention performance) to Astons and Ferraris available in the mid sixties at around the same price.

However, when it comes to car interiors, the car whose interior stood up best to the rigors of daily use, including hauling Cub and Boy Scouts on a regular basis and doing "horse" duty going to shows and training, was my '84 Audi 5000S Avant. Despite all the other problems with the car, its' high grade vinyl (BenzTex type) upholstery and the quality assembly of the interior stood the test of time better than cars costing much more. The same could be said of the Alfa Romeo 164's velour and vinyl interior which also performed "horse" (hauling saddles, tack and a sweaty rider) for over ten years with no adverse affect (velour never showed wear, cushions never deformed during the time I had the car). Neither the Alfa nor the Audi had what could be term "luxury" interiors, but they looked good and stood the test of time very well.

So I wonder, when I see materials used in places on current cars purportedly "luxury" materials whether these materials (such as authentic leather dash covers with French stitching) will stand the test of time or come up short as the cars age.A-p00pin-men! My V's interior is luxurious even if it doesn't have the most luxurious named materials out there...

JimmyH
04-10-11, 09:26 PM
How could you not at least care a little bit about the things you look at and touch 100% of the time you're driving?

you mean, the steering wheel and shifter? :lol: my car has them wrapped in genuine leather. as for the dash board, I have found I do not fondle it. at all. as for looking, that's focused on the road, and the weirdos who may or may not run into me.

Stingroo
04-10-11, 09:30 PM
you mean, the steering wheel and shifter? :lol: my car has them wrapped in genuine leather. as for the dash board, I have found I do not fondle it. at all. as for looking, that's focused on the road, and the weirdos who may or may not run into me.

This.

My steering wheel is made from some sort of foamy 80s material. I don't know what it is (or care, really because I have a probably-fake leather cover on it), and I drive an automatic, so I only touch the shifter twice every time I drive the car.

I mean sure, that stuff is all nice for oohs and aaahs, but it's not worth getting your panties in a bunch over IMO.

JimmyH
04-10-11, 09:38 PM
steering wheel, now I must wait for the inevitable steering wheel wrap comment...

Stingroo
04-10-11, 11:54 PM
El wheel wrap por su winkie.

Playdrv4me
04-11-11, 02:40 AM
Faux leather? Call it what it is. Vinyl. Tofu isnt faux meat, its tofu.

That interior might be ok, but for people who want a world class interior, its just not good enough. I really think the CTS needs an optional extended leather interior.

Dude, it's a CTS, not an S Class. While I disagree with those who couldn't care less if their dashboard was made of Tupperware, I also am realistic, and realize a car like the CTS is in a price class that doesn't really qualify for the whole hog top grain leather treatment. Jim's right, it's fine the way it is (the dash at least).

The DTS at least, DOES give you that option... it's called a Platinum. The problem is the base DTS shouldn't be as cheap as it is, and should at least have the stuff the CTS has now.

concorso
04-11-11, 08:53 AM
Over the years, I have found that many so called "luxury" (expensive) materials, while initially giving superior tactile or visual impression, do not stand up well even under moderate daily use. Mens" suits are a good example; in the past I have purchased business suits costing in the range of $2000. to $3000. dollars hand tailored from especially fine fabrics only to find them unsatisfactory when worn weekly due to poor wrinkle resistance and fabric wear. I quickly learned that many "luxury" items were in fact "sucker bait" valued more for their "snob" appeal than their intrinsic superiority. Many of my friends have come to the same conclusion.

This is not to say that some products that cost a lot in relationship to the lesser priced product competition. A good example would be my Lamborghini 350 GT, a beautifully designed, built GT automobile utilizing the very best of materials and components available at the time. This car was truly superior to a Jaguar E-type costing about a third of the Lambo's price. And it was superior in quality and materials (not too mention performance) to Astons and Ferraris available in the mid sixties at around the same price.

However, when it comes to car interiors, the car whose interior stood up best to the rigors of daily use, including hauling Cub and Boy Scouts on a regular basis and doing "horse" duty going to shows and training, was my '84 Audi 5000S Avant. Despite all the other problems with the car, its' high grade vinyl (BenzTex type) upholstery and the quality assembly of the interior stood the test of time better than cars costing much more. The same could be said of the Alfa Romeo 164's velour and vinyl interior which also performed "horse" (hauling saddles, tack and a sweaty rider) for over ten years with no adverse affect (velour never showed wear, cushions never deformed during the time I had the car). Neither the Alfa nor the Audi had what could be term "luxury" interiors, but they looked good and stood the test of time very well.

So I wonder, when I see materials used in places on current cars purportedly "luxury" materials whether these materials (such as authentic leather dash covers with French stitching) will stand the test of time or come up short as the cars age.If you follow this idea through, the CTS should have vinyl seats, even if the entire interior is leather. Have the most durable fabric on the most used portion of interior correct? ...which would be the seats, steering wheel, shifter, correct? Interestingly, these are the only areas in the CTS that have real leather...
By your argument, my Tods Mocc's shouldnt have lasted 10 years, while my Clarks should have lasted more then 8 months...
I agree that some of these fabrics dont last as long as some cheaper fabrics...Isnt that part of luxury? The ability to waste your money a little?

concorso
04-11-11, 08:56 AM
Dude, it's a CTS, not an S Class. While I disagree with those who couldn't care less if their dashboard was made of Tupperware, I also am realistic, and realize a car like the CTS is in a price class that doesn't really qualify for the whole hog top grain leather treatment. Jim's right, it's fine the way it is (the dash at least).

The DTS at least, DOES give you that option... it's called a Platinum. The problem is the base DTS shouldn't be as cheap as it is, and should at least have the stuff the CTS has now.Im comparing it to an E-class,5-series, and A6. Guess what? Each of those offers an OPTIONAL extended leather package. Jim's not right, Its his opinion.

concorso
04-11-11, 09:01 AM
This.

My steering wheel is made from some sort of foamy 80s material. I don't know what it is (or care, really because I have a probably-fake leather cover on it), and I drive an automatic, so I only touch the shifter twice every time I drive the car.

I mean sure, that stuff is all nice for oohs and aaahs, but it's not worth getting your panties in a bunch over IMO.I dont see anyones panties in a bunch, lol... It has nothing to do with oohs and ahhs. It has to do with spending big money on a car and wanting the options you like, considering the options are available in its competitors' cars.

thebigjimsho
04-11-11, 10:34 AM
Im comparing it to an E-class,5-series, and A6. Guess what? Each of those offers an OPTIONAL extended leather package. Jim's not right, Its his opinion.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT. You goober. As far as the CTS, how many do they sell if they charge an extra few grand for those features? The CTS is wedged between the entry level sedans and sports/luxury sedans of the Germans. It does a damn fine job at its price point and if they keep the renaissance ongoing, eventually the CTS can be uber-luxurious. I guess you think Cadillac could just walk in with the CTS in 2003 and expect all the old farts used to floaty velour laden Devilles to just swap right over?

Cadillac has been gradually moving the CTS upscale. Sit in a gen 1 and then gen 2. The ATS is coming. The CTS, I bet, will be even bigger when that happens. And see the jump in overall luxury and appeal make another big jump as it did from '07 to '08. And also watch that price jump, too.

BMW couldn't make the jump overnight. Why should Cadillac, in this economy, be able to?

JimmyH
04-11-11, 10:42 AM
^^which is exactly why they are alienating alot of buyers. Hopefully they pick up as many new ones; but judging by the comments I see in the 2nd gen CTS forum (and V for that matter) they jumped too quickly.

They should have kept the 2nd gen in the same class as the 1st gen. "Near-luxury" buyers like me are alot more forgiving than the "panties-in-a-bunch" crowd they are pulling from bmw and mb.

Stingroo
04-11-11, 10:55 AM
Hey, he used my phrase! :lol:

OffThaHorseCEO
04-11-11, 12:17 PM
don't just throw the decontenting hammer at every good thing.

I can see the soup Nazi from seinfeld swinging the decontenting hammer and yelling "NO LEATHER FOR YOU!"

thebigjimsho
04-11-11, 12:27 PM
I'd love to have a decontenting hammer.

JimmyH
04-11-11, 01:48 PM
Hey, he used my phrase! :lol:

:thumbsup:

orconn
04-11-11, 03:57 PM
If you follow this idea through, the CTS should have vinyl seats, even if the entire interior is leather. Have the most durable fabric on the most used portion of interior correct? ...which would be the seats, steering wheel, shifter, correct? Interestingly, these are the only areas in the CTS that have real leather...
By your argument, my Tods Mocc's shouldnt have lasted 10 years, while my Clarks should have lasted more then 8 months...
I agree that some of these fabrics dont last as long as some cheaper fabrics...Isnt that part of luxury? The ability to waste your money a little?

The use of leather for seating surfaces has merits other than just their "luxury" factor. Leather breathes better than most vinyls, thus providing a more comfortable seating surface than vinyl. This breathability is further enhance by perforations allowing even more transfer of air. Leather covered surfaces, such as steering wheels and gear shift nobs, also make for a sure grip as well as a comfortable surface while being more wear resisitant than other grip friendly surfaces.

JimmyH
04-11-11, 04:11 PM
Velour is still my favorite for seats.

OffThaHorseCEO
04-11-11, 05:48 PM
Velour is still my favorite for seats.

Orale holmes
http://www.strangevehicles.com/images/content/10578.jpg

Stingroo
04-11-11, 06:03 PM
LOL.

But seriously. Velour is definitely amazing. Almost enough to make me want to purchase chaps.


...I kid, I kid.

JimmyH
04-11-11, 06:08 PM
My 2000 Maxima had amazing velour seats. And they looked nothing like the above photo. Beats the hell out of leather or leatherette which starts cracking at around 15000 miles.

OffThaHorseCEO
04-11-11, 06:10 PM
oh ok i gotcha, we always called them fabric seats, didnt know they were velour.

ill agree that cloth seats are more "stable" such as not burning your ass in the summer or freezing your balls in the winter

JimmyH
04-11-11, 06:49 PM
they also hold your ass in place better when you are engaging in some lateral acceleration

velour, at least as nissan called it, was much softer and nicer than the fabric they use otherwise. I guess it was their mid-range, between regular fabric and leather.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
04-11-11, 07:35 PM
I can picture the "velour" Jimmy is talking about in the Maxima. My friend's '93 Maxima SE had a similar seating material, and it was quite nice. The best way I can describe it is by saying it was a very soft, deep cut cloth where you would see a pattern emerge in the fabric if you brushed your hand against in one way or another. Off the top of my head, I can't think of any manufacturers that use anything like that today. According to my '00 Maxima brochure (yes Jimmy, I do have that in my massive collection), it's referred to as a cloth, but seeing as how yours was an SE, it was a different cloth than the stuff used in the baseline GXE.

JimmyH
04-11-11, 07:48 PM
The GXE had regular cloth. The SE had velour (or whatever they called it), with leather optional. The GLE had leather standard. That was 00 and 01. I don't know about other years. i know Nissan does not use velour anymore. I think it was nearly as expensive as leather.

JimmyH
04-11-11, 07:49 PM
Also, my 00 had a smooth, padded vinyl covering the dash. It was infinitely better than the textured dash boards of today. And it did not reflect on the windshield the way these textured dash's do. i really don't get why they do the textures. What is wrong with smooth plastic or vinyl?

OffThaHorseCEO
04-11-11, 08:25 PM
my roadmaster had that, i believe the other cloth material is called tweed

Playdrv4me
04-11-11, 10:57 PM
Im comparing it to an E-class...

Last I checked the CTS's ENTRY price-point was no where near the 50 large of the Merc. And what material does Merc give the unwashed masses who can only afford the base model? That's right... MB Tex, or "vinyl". Check and mate.

What the CTS offers for it's price point splits the difference between needless frills and still having desired overall materials. In other words... it's "fine". When and if the CTS moves further upscale, we can revisit that topic.

Nutz
04-11-11, 11:30 PM
Kind of looks like a car incarnation of "Nutsy" the Richmond Flying Squirrels baseball teams mascot!:wave:

I~LUV~Caddys8792
04-12-11, 01:33 AM
The very idea that a totally legitimate high end luxury brand, like BMW and Mercedes offer vinyl seats on their entry level models of each range is completely ludicrous to me.

Playdrv4me
04-12-11, 01:39 AM
The very idea that a totally legitimate high end luxury brand, like BMW and Mercedes offer vinyl seats on their entry level models of each range is completely ludicrous to me.

While I wholeheartedly agree on this, I gotta say that as Orconn has talked about in the past, those BMW and Merc vinyls last for frieken-ever. Sometimes it's hard to even tell the difference because they have formulation down so well. But... at the end of the day you're right... it's vinyl in a luxury car.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
04-12-11, 01:44 AM
It's like selling tofu in a steakhouse.

Playdrv4me
04-12-11, 01:55 AM
Although I have to say, the garbage that passes for leather in the Escalade may as WELL be vinyl. It doesn't even smell like anything.

JimmyH
04-12-11, 10:40 AM
3 series, C class, even CTS, all too expensive for me. I am guessing in about 10 years, these cars are all going to start around $80k.

thebigjimsho
04-12-11, 11:33 AM
3 series, C class, even CTS, all too expensive for me. I am guessing in about 10 years, these cars are all going to start around $80k.
Says the g00ber who buys a new car every 4-6 months...

JimmyH
04-12-11, 01:12 PM
yeah yeah. I have made some bad decisions lately, and I admit it. Selling the V, buying the CTS4, and then the LT. But i am hoping to reverse that trend. I had my Maxima for 8 years.

orconn
04-12-11, 03:12 PM
The very idea that a totally legitimate high end luxury brand, like BMW and Mercedes offer vinyl seats on their entry level models of each range is completely ludicrous to me.

It seems to me that we always forget that Mercedes "C" and "E" class models and BMW 3 and 5 series models are not "purpose built" luxury models, but rather middle market models gussied up with some luxury features to raise them to "executive class" in the American and European market. These cars are used for everything from taxi cabs to police cars around the world ...... and not because their drivers or passengers demand luxury car status! Even the vaulted "S" class can be purchased in a decidedly decontented form in the international market.

I think that perhaps the "legitimate high end luxury brand" image so many attribute to these two German brands is more a function of marketing and price in the U.S. than the reality of the cars origins and uses around the world.

concorso
04-13-11, 08:49 PM
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT. You goober. As far as the CTS, how many do they sell if they charge an extra few grand for those features? The CTS is wedged between the entry level sedans and sports/luxury sedans of the Germans. It does a damn fine job at its price point and if they keep the renaissance ongoing, eventually the CTS can be uber-luxurious. I guess you think Cadillac could just walk in with the CTS in 2003 and expect all the old farts used to floaty velour laden Devilles to just swap right over?

Cadillac has been gradually moving the CTS upscale. Sit in a gen 1 and then gen 2. The ATS is coming. The CTS, I bet, will be even bigger when that happens. And see the jump in overall luxury and appeal make another big jump as it did from '07 to '08. And also watch that price jump, too.

BMW couldn't make the jump overnight. Why should Cadillac, in this economy, be able to?You're always right? Again, that's your opinion.

I dont think Cadillac or anyone else for that matter, expected much transfer from the Deville crowd to the CTS. I dont see where I implied it, either. The DTS is still around for exactly that purpose. The STS also catered to that crowd to a certain extent, tho not as directly as the DTS. Most DTS owners wouldnt look at a CTS, and vice versa.

How many CTS would I expect to see sold with the full leather? Optioned by itself, not alot, tho Id bet it would still be sold at least half as often as the V is.
If Cadillac were to combine the LS3/L99 with a softer riding Magneride setup, a smoother wheel-tire combo that would allow 4-wheel tire rotation, and some other small additions, they could fill a void in the CTS lineup. This CTS could sell about 5-7k cheaper then the V. All of this is available somewhere else in Cadillac's or GM's lineup. There are many people out there who believe luxury has nothing to do with performance.

concorso
04-13-11, 09:06 PM
Last I checked the CTS's ENTRY price-point was no where near the 50 large of the Merc. And what material does Merc give the unwashed masses who can only afford the base model? That's right... MB Tex, or "vinyl". Check and mate.

What the CTS offers for it's price point splits the difference between needless frills and still having desired overall materials. In other words... it's "fine". When and if the CTS moves further upscale, we can revisit that topic.Im not talking about entry price point. Everything available in the V minus the powertrain should be available in the CTS. A V8, the Magneride suspension, the microsuede dash, door panels, steering wheel, shifter, etc... The last 2 are, but why not the rest? Do you honestly think Cadillac couldnt sell a slightly more upscale version of the CTS that wasnt a trackmagician? I think they could. The CTS is not Cadillacs halo car, but it certainly draws more attention then anything else in the lineup. I think Cadillac should exploit that.

concorso
04-13-11, 09:23 PM
The use of leather for seating surfaces has merits other than just their "luxury" factor. Leather breathes better than most vinyls, thus providing a more comfortable seating surface than vinyl. This breathability is further enhance by perforations allowing even more transfer of air. Leather covered surfaces, such as steering wheels and gear shift nobs, also make for a sure grip as well as a comfortable surface while being more wear resistant than other grip friendly surfaces.I could believe that when we talk about older leathers. Newer low-end leathers, tho, are pigmented to achieve a color. The prepared leather will recieve a clear topcoat along with the color pigments. This 'topcoat' helps to protect from wear, against stains, fading, etc... Im not sure how 'breathable' this leather is. I know if I spill water or any drink on my leather, the liquid will pool on top and not soak in. Water molecules are bigger then air molecules, tho, right?

thebigjimsho
04-14-11, 11:01 PM
Uggghhh, yawn. This argument is so last week...

JimmyH
04-15-11, 02:12 PM
its like saying Oprah is skinny for a fat chick.

potd